Is anyone at Celebrity, Listening?

[tserface]

On 6/4/2023 at 6:49 PM, Hawkstar33 said:

Seems like a lot of griping mainly about cost, cutbacks, refurbishments on quite a few ships, and sadly about overall quality of the product.  I imagine that Celebrity has eyes on this site, as well as others.  But are they listening?  Nobody paying the higher price of cruising these days, wants to hear about pandemic losses, anymore. Cruise lines, according to what I see, and read,  are banging us with increases for every possible thing associated with each cruise. So with price increases, you think there should be no crappy chairs, cushions with stains, tired mattresses,  chipped rusted verandas, or worn musty smelling carpets, as I myself have also seen these past 2 years.  Just read about Eclipse, and how she needs some much needed attention in many areas.  I'm booked next June, and now I've gotta watch for further reviews, as I'm already not happy with the current poor reviews.  Hopefully Celebrity is watching and reading.  And wondering if they care, or just in it for the $$$$$$$$$..  What used to be is no more

I wouldn't be surprised if they have someone who monitors media, but, my guess, is they don't care.  It could even get a lot worse and their ships will still be filled with the faithful so they really don't have to care at this point.  It's a business and so long as it's booming they don't have a reason to do anything extra.

 

That said, Celebrity still provides a decent product and that's why their ships are sailing at a capacity a lot of the time.  So, people are certainly not complaining with the business by going elsewhere. That means 1) The customers don't care either and like X regardless of what they do. 2) The grass isn't really all that greener elsewhere.  I'm guessing #2 is the more true.

[tfred]

2 minutes ago, MISTER 67 said:

You’re probably right but so far they’ve never turned down a booking of ours. 

you are right but X is not up at night trying to get low profit customers back on the ship again.  Future programs will add value at a higher cost not offer less expensive options

[tserface]

5 minutes ago, tfred said:

bad news - no cruise line is looking for your usage profile. They won't be sad if you are not on board.  They won't chase you away actively but if you leave for Princess I think that X will be OK with that 

 

You dont buy liquor, take excursions, eat at specialty restaurants or use the internet  and I assume do not use the spa- all high profit items.  Buying the room alone is a low margin proposition for any cruise line and they dont start seeing better profits unless you add on items 

 

Las Vegas figured out years ago that the idea of low rate, high volume with $8.99 Prime rib buffets was a quick way to lose money. Now it is high room rates with expensive restaurants and shows.  

I think this is very true.  Loyalty users don't often do all the special things that make the company more profit.  I know a lot of people who cruise a lot, but only in inside rooms, seldom go to specialty restaurants unless they get a discount or comp, and certainly don't frequent the stores on board.  I do think a lot of repeat cruisers using the casino since there's a big market for that.

 

To make it worse, once you reach a certain loyalty level (Elite, etc.) it actually costs them a lot for you to cruise if you're not doing any of the add ons.

 

So, I think they focus on a lot of new cruisers and try to do specials and features that support them because there's way more money in that then it super support for loyalty clubs.

[tserface]

19 hours ago, BPCW said:

If people want to pay Celebrity prices for an NCL level cruise experience because of brand loyalty, more power to them.  Celebrity is counting on that because they have zero loyalty to you as a customer. 
 

Or if Celebrity’s changes still exceed your perceived value, by all means book away.  People can spend their money however they want. But lots of people are looking elsewhere, us included, for the first time in awhile. 

We haven't given up on Celebrity or RCL (our two previous go-to's), but we are considering more Princess Cruises since their on board prices are more reasonable.  We've had two Princess cruises in the last year and really enjoyed a lot of the amenities (bingo, more games, better trivia) that we used to have on X and RCL.  But, that said, we still like Celebrity and will continue to cruise with them if their itinerary is what we want.  We're just starting to branch out.

 

In the old days, our decision was like, we really want to go on "other line", but we get such a great deal for being loyal to X'.  That's not such a carrot any longer.

 

I've never been on NCL, but I don't think X has slumped to what, I think, is that level yet.  However, they are certainly not the upscale cruise line they used to be.

[Hawkstar33]

1 hour ago, PROCRUISE said:

Is Corporate Celebrity watching and listening to Cruise Critic? NO! They're trying to save their jobs.

Continued price increases, and slowly giving the consumer less for their dollar, is bound to cause you to lose your job too.   

[D. B.]

12 minutes ago, tserface said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they have someone who monitors media, but, my guess, is they don't care.  It could even get a lot worse and their ships will still be filled with the faithful so they really don't have to care at this point.  It's a business and so long as it's booming they don't have a reason to do anything extra.

 

That said, Celebrity still provides a decent product and that's why their ships are sailing at a capacity a lot of the time.  So, people are certainly not complaining with the business by going elsewhere. That means 1) The customers don't care either and like X regardless of what they do. 2) The grass isn't really all that greener elsewhere.  I'm guessing #2 is the more true.

We are Elite+ and have been sailing with X for 23 years. We have tried a lot of other lines (most Recently Azamara-one and done)  and I can compare what other lines offer.

   I'm not in a position to book a suite. Well unless I want to do One cruise a year.

 I still think X is a good fit and value for us. Especially the M class ships that fully booked (2100 guests)  still seem less crowded than other mid level lines.

  Post Covid there are so many choices as to what you can find in a cruise line that there is defiantly something out there for everyone.  

   Happy Sailing !

 

[tserface]

5 minutes ago, D. B. said:

We are Elite+ and have been sailing with X for 23 years. We have tried a lot of other lines (most Recently Azamara-one and done)  and I can compare what other lines offer.

   I'm not in a position to book a suite. Well unless I want to do One cruise a year.

 I still think X is a good fit and value for us. Especially the M class ships that fully booked (2100 guests)  still seem less crowded than other mid level lines.

  Post Covid there are so many choices as to what you can find in a cruise line that there is defiantly something out there for everyone.  

   Happy Sailing !

 

Yeah, we've been cruising with X for over 20 years as well and still have cruises booked with them.  We also don't cruise in suites, typically veranda or sunset verandas, and I agree, Celebrity is not for everyone.  But, we still consider it when figuring out where we want to go next.  We're not opposed to X, by any means, but, we have seen lots of changes in the last year that diminishes the value somewhat so I can understand what people are talking about.

[markeb]

19 minutes ago, Hawkstar33 said:

Continued price increases, and slowly giving the consumer less for their dollar, is bound to cause you to lose your job too.   

Not if it results in higher ROE for stockholders. 

[NMTraveller]

3 minutes ago, markeb said:

Not if it results in higher ROE for stockholders. 

Exactly...

[Oceangoer2]

2 hours ago, RTShaker said:

Well for giggles just look at the pricing for hotels in NYC. $500/night is almost cheap.

And more for some hotels in Miami and Ft Lauderdale, depending on the class of hotel...and then, for us, it's in Canadian $$s!!  Oh well...part of the vacation package IMO. 🌞

[phoenix_dream]

5 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Future pricing will be influenced by supply and demand.   Over the next few years there are 28 larger new builds (2500+ passengers) scheduled for delivery plus another dozen smaller ones from premium outfits like Oceania, Virgin, Viking and Explora.  That's a lot of capacity needing to be absorbed.  Pre-covid there were rumblings about how overcrowded Caribbean market was becoming especially in the winter.  Additional capacity coming on line may well lead to weaker pricing.

OMG how are the ports going to be able to handle these traveling resorts??  Even now many of the ports are super crowded and a number of ports are starting to prohibit or reduce the number of cruise ships due to overcrowding, concern about the environment, or whatever they believe or claim (for example just in the US, Monterey, Bar Harbor, Key West - three of my favorites!).  I'm glad I enjoy spending time onboard!

[NutsAboutGolf]

13 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

OMG how are the ports going to be able to handle these traveling resorts??  Even now many of the ports are super crowded and a number of ports are starting to prohibit or reduce the number of cruise ships due to overcrowding, concern about the environment, or whatever they believe or claim (for example just in the US, Monterey, Bar Harbor, Key West - three of my favorites!).  I'm glad I enjoy spending time onboard!

Can tender at almost all ports…Most local govts and retail owners want as many passengers as possible, its often the residents who do not

[larry_s_taco]

Celebrity can do better particularly in the main dining room. I realize the cost containment issues, but for example two dishes can be made for exactly the same price; one prepared well by a good chef/kitchen crew the other not so much by a lesser talented chef/kitchen crew. I believe that Celebrity needs to refocus on their food. The food prior to the pandemic didn't necessarily have to be expensive items, but what they did prepare was very well done. Not so much on the last four cruises I've been on with them. The food is not bad, just not up to the standards that Celebrity presented before. They can save money in other areas of the ship. 

[grandgeezer]

5 hours ago, MISTER 67 said:

You’re probably right but so far they’ve never turned down a booking of ours. Guess what? We loved the old Vegas too, haven’t been back since 1990.

We used to be Vegas groupies too. We lived in Wisconsin and went to Vegas 17 times between 1994 and 2000. Funjet had charters that ran about $300 p.p. which included four nights in a hotel and air from Milwaukee. For about $30 p.p. for better hotels such as Luxor, Mirage, and Treasure Island. Food and drinks were dirt cheap in smaller places.

In 2001 we retired and moved to Arizona. About that time the prices started to climb to a point, like the cruise lines, that the value wasn’t there so we stopped going. It’s about a 4 1/2 hour drive and we were only there four times, none in the last 15 years. Looks like it will be the same with cruising as far as going on one.

[jelayne]

5 hours ago, Hawkstar33 said:

Continued price increases, and slowly giving the consumer less for their dollar, is bound to cause you to lose your job too.   

Exactly what the other lines are doing also.

[kr00t0n]

16 hours ago, ldtr said:

Yep it is the time of cruise line musical chairs. People are dissatisfied with the line they were sailing pre covid (pretty much allow them) and are all shifting to other lines. 

 

a bit comical when one thinks about it.

Well apparently, compared to 2019, the guest NPS scores are pretty much unchanged, and the food quality scores have only dropped slightly (like only 3%).

I wonder if this is like what we see with movies on RottenTomatoes, with critic and public scores being quite different.

[Mike981]

17 hours ago, tserface said:

 

To make it worse, once you reach a certain loyalty level (Elite, etc.) it actually costs them a lot for you to cruise if you're not doing any of the add ons.

 

So, I think they focus on a lot of new cruisers and try to do specials and features that support them because there's way more money in that then it super support for loyalty clubs.

 

 

Celebrity is not alone. Like a lot of companies, 'loyalty' means very little anymore. I stopped playing the loyalty game years ago, because my timing was horrible. I would get close to a new level and they would move the bar, talking to you Delta.

I truly feel bad for folks that spent $$$$$ and were very loyal to Celebrity over the years, to now become an afterthought. I don't blame then at all for being upset.

[NutsAboutGolf]

48 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

 

Celebrity is not alone. Like a lot of companies, 'loyalty' means very little anymore. I stopped playing the loyalty game years ago, because my timing was horrible. I would get close to a new level and they would move the bar, talking to you Delta.

I truly feel bad for folks that spent $$$$$ and were very loyal to Celebrity over the years, to now become an afterthought. I don't blame then at all for being upset.

 

Loyalty is the one thing cruise lines somewhat do well as they all offer lifetime status (except for MSC) which could go away in the future for NEW CRUISERS, they may need to requalify perhaps bi/tri-annually.  Even with MSC, you can use their status match program which matches to your airline/hotel status

[NutsAboutGolf]

9 hours ago, kr00t0n said:

Well apparently, compared to 2019, the guest NPS scores are pretty much unchanged, and the food quality scores have only dropped slightly (like only 3%).

I wonder if this is like what we see with movies on RottenTomatoes, with critic and public scores being quite different.

 

Where can one find this info?

[NutsAboutGolf]

17 hours ago, larry_s_taco said:

Celebrity can do better particularly in the main dining room. I realize the cost containment issues, but for example two dishes can be made for exactly the same price; one prepared well by a good chef/kitchen crew the other not so much by a lesser talented chef/kitchen crew. I believe that Celebrity needs to refocus on their food. The food prior to the pandemic didn't necessarily have to be expensive items, but what they did prepare was very well done. Not so much on the last four cruises I've been on with them. The food is not bad, just not up to the standards that Celebrity presented before. They can save money in other areas of the ship. 

 

For the most part, its usually not the chefs training although lately I've had many overcooked chicken dishes (jerk chicken is one of the least bland things they serve in the MDR) although we're usually in Blu, perhaps MDR dish standards slip when ordering in Blu.  It's the quality of the meat that's often the chief complaint, with the sole exception of Blu's filet mignon which is usually excellent, the rest of the MDR/Blu meat is average at best.  Finally there are the recipes themselves, often just bland.  Nearly everything could be better with marinading (if they already are, they need to try a different one), add some more garlic and some Unami

[Mike981]

13 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Loyalty is the one thing cruise lines somewhat do well as they all offer lifetime status (except for MSC) which could go away in the future for NEW CRUISERS, they may need to requalify perhaps bi/tri-annually.  Even with MSC, you can use their status match program which matches to your airline/hotel status

 

Oh I don't dispute what you are saying Nuts.

 

What I am talking about is when the cruise lines water down the perks you receive for your lifetime status and it is much different from what you received before. The very things that motivated a person to spend $$$$ to try to achieve their status, have been severely diminished or taken away.  If memory serves, this started before Covid.

 

I understand it is all about the money, I just don't think it's cool to punish some of your best customers.

[NMTraveller]

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by NMTraveller

[NutsAboutGolf]

3 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

 

Oh I don't dispute what you are saying Nuts.

 

What I am talking about is when the cruise lines water down the perks you receive for your lifetime status and it is much different from what you received before. The very things that motivated a person to spend $$$$ to try to achieve their status, have been severely diminished or taken away.  If memory serves, this started before Covid.

 

I understand it is all about the money, I just don't think it's cool to punish some of your best customers.

 

Totally understand and I'm sure the food has always been on a steady downward spiral since day one.  During covid, restaurants shutdown twice where I live as restaurants were forced to do take out only which removes service and atmosphere from the equation.  The outcome was simple, produce good food and they could become more profitable than pre-covid.  Continue to produce bad food, they risk going out of business.  Maybe X just simply wants to focus on the Hotel side with the Forbes Guide and not the food

[paulh84]

2 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

 

Oh I don't dispute what you are saying Nuts.

 

What I am talking about is when the cruise lines water down the perks you receive for your lifetime status and it is much different from what you received before. The very things that motivated a person to spend $$$$ to try to achieve their status, have been severely diminished or taken away.  If memory serves, this started before Covid.

 

I understand it is all about the money, I just don't think it's cool to punish some of your best customers.

 

That's the inherent nature of loyalty programs whether it's a cruise line, hotel or airline. The customer base grows to a point where it's either too expensive or ineffective to maintain loyalty perks at the initial level offered. Try getting an upgrade on Delta or American. United just did a massive devaluation this week. Hilton did a significant devaluation this spring. When you have a giant - and growing - population of people who believe they are the 'best customers' you can't please everyone all the time. 

[Guest ldtr]

2 hours ago, Mike981 said:

 

Oh I don't dispute what you are saying Nuts.

 

What I am talking about is when the cruise lines water down the perks you receive for your lifetime status and it is much different from what you received before. The very things that motivated a person to spend $$$$ to try to achieve their status, have been severely diminished or taken away.  If memory serves, this started before Covid.

 

I understand it is all about the money, I just don't think it's cool to punish some of your best customers.

All loyalty programs are marketing programs.  They only continue if they generate enough results to justify the costs.  As a result over time pretty much every industry devalues the program as the associated costs increase.  Hotels, airlines, etc  devalue the points over time.  Even Starbucks requires more points to get a free drink than when they started the program.

 

Cruise lines have tended to keep the benefits the same while the business has changed around them. Some of the benefits included in a drink package well that is the buyers choice if they value the package enough to buy it, in the meantime the benefits still exist for those that don't.