Atl to Sydney - coping with lengthy flight

[mickeysgal]

Hi - we are planning a cruise to Australia/New Zealand.  Flying out of Atl to Sydney.  We have only two weeks of vacation time plus the weekends on the front end and back end to to use for this trip, so every day counts.  As of now we are not planning on breaking up the flights by staying overnight in LAX or Honolulu- I wish we could but we don't have the time to spare.  I really don't want to push this trip to "sometime when we have more time" because as we all know, that time may never come.  So, we may have to just bite the bullet and power through this long flight.  For those that have completed these long haul flights, how bad is the jet lag?  Is it worse east bound or west bound in this case?  How did you cope with the long flight and the resulting jet lag?  We are experienced flyers to Europe - we've done many 8-10 hour flights, and have learned how to manage that jet lag, but this long flight time has me really intimidated.  I'm seeing 22+ hours total (including connection times) depending on the airline, but that's still 22+ total hours of travel which is hard on the body.  You all are the experienced flyers...so I'm hoping you have some insight on how to cope with this extraordinary long flight.

[CruiserBruce]

Whether the jet lag is worse east or west bound varies by person. There is no hard and fast rule.

 

Book business class or Premium Economy with lay flat or reclining seats, and get some sleep. Most likely you will depart ATL in the mid to late morning, and fly out of the West Coast at about 10pm. So if you can get 4-6 (or more) hours of sleep going over, that helps a lot, as it sort of mimics body time.

 

Going east bound is tougher for sleep, as you are probably going to depart Australia about 10am, and get into the West Coast first thing in the morning, then connect to ATL. Not anything close to normal sleep times. We just try to get sleep when and where possible on the flights.

[Globaliser]

10 hours ago, mickeysgal said:

For those that have completed these long haul flights, how bad is the jet lag?  Is it worse east bound or west bound in this case?  How did you cope with the long flight and the resulting jet lag?  We are experienced flyers to Europe - we've done many 8-10 hour flights, and have learned how to manage that jet lag, but this long flight time has me really intimidated.

 

Whether you fly east or west has little to do with the severity of the jet lag. That really depends on the length of the flight, the times of departure and arrival, the time difference between the origin and the destination, the comfort of your flight, and the amount of sleep you get on board. As CruiserBruce says, every individual's experience of jet lag will be different. The only things that can safely be said are that there will be jet lag (even if you think you can't feel it) and it will be whatever it will be.

 

FWIW, the flights I hate most for jet lag are the short overnights from North America to London/Europe. I can deal more easily with the jet lag flying from London to Sydney or back.

[mickeysgal]

3 hours ago, Globaliser said:

 

Whether you fly east or west has little to do with the severity of the jet lag. That really depends on the length of the flight, the times of departure and arrival, the time difference between the origin and the destination, the comfort of your flight, and the amount of sleep you get on board. As CruiserBruce says, every individual's experience of jet lag will be different. The only things that can safely be said are that there will be jet lag (even if you think you can't feel it) and it will be whatever it will be.

 

FWIW, the flights I hate most for jet lag are the short overnights from North America to London/Europe. I can deal more easily with the jet lag flying from London to Sydney or back.

If you don’t mind me asking, why is the North America/europe harder for you jet lag wise than flying to Sydney? 

 

Usually with the North America/Europe flights we power through that first day, get to bed a bit earlier than normal and are perfectly fine the next day. With this east coast /Sydney flight, I’m trying to assess how much down time we will need as we will only have four days in Sydney pre cruise (including arrival day).
 

 

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

18 minutes ago, mickeysgal said:

If you don’t mind me asking, why is the North America/europe harder for you jet lag wise than flying to Sydney? 

 

Usually with the North America/Europe flights we power through that first day, get to bed a bit earlier than normal and are perfectly fine the next day. With this east coast /Sydney flight, I’m trying to assess how much down time we will need as we will only have four days in Sydney pre cruise (including arrival day).
 

 

 

 

We do the same thing no matter what direction we fly. We make every effort to stay awake until close to normal bedtime in the new location. Seems to work pretty well, but every trip is a little different.

[mickeysgal]

7 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

We do the same thing no matter what direction we fly. We make every effort to stay awake until close to normal bedtime in the new location. Seems to work pretty well, but every trip is a little different.

I guess I’m worried/anticipating feeling wonky for days due to this long haul flight time. I’m not sure that what has worked for us in the past will work for us now. Our time in Sydney is so precious. Unfortunately as of now, we may be only able to afford main cabin (working on possible upgrades ) so my concern is we won’t sleep as well as we have when we’ve been in premium select (delta). Can you tell I’m totally intimidated by this long flight? Lol.  Chances are we will be fine, but having never experienced such a long flight time - I have the fear of the unknown. Our past Europe flights seem like childs play to me now in comparison. 

[CruiserBruce]

My best advice is to just get out and be active...yes, it may be a little tough as it gets dark in your new location, but the more active you are, and the less sitting, TV watching or reading you do, the better.

[jsglow]

One of the things that can really help is if you can make some headway sleep adjusting to your new time before ever heading to the airport. For us so far it's only been flying east. In that case the week before we start adjusting our bedtime one hour earlier each day. By a couple days before our trip, we'll be going to bed at maybe 6pm and getting up at 2am mimicking Euro-time.  We still 'lose' the night of sleep on the flight across the Atlantic but find ourselves sleeping soundly that first night in Europe and feeling great on day#2. We've had time differentials as much as 9 hours and 'survived'. Obviously none of that works for the return trip as we're not willing to compromise our time abroad. We just tough it out once we're back home.

 

I'm anything but a world traveler but I've always heard 'west is best'. That's been my experience too. 

[Gardyloo]

I really am a broken record on this (as in, get a life) but out of curiosity I had a look at the OP's other posts and it appears that they're going on a Mediterranean/Middle East cruise sometime later this year, I assume prior to the Australia trip.  (To the OP, I'm not trying to be intrusive, but maybe this could help you or others down the road.)

 

On several occasions I've posted to this board on the possible use of "round the world" (abbreviated "RTW") tickets for cruisers who take multiple trips over the course of a year.  These aren't widely known in the cruising community but they can offer some good value, provided one is prepared to sit down and think in advance about a year's or two years' travel plans, either linked with cruises or other travel, basically a travel "master plan."

 

Take what little I know about the OP's plans for the next year or so (and again, I'm trying to be general here, not specific, and not trying to pry.)  Item one, they're traveling to the Mediterranean for a cruise - in October I think.  Item two, they're planning a trip - presumably for a cruise - in or around Australia at some time in the near future.  I don't know when that is but I'm going to assume it's in the southern summer or thereabouts, i.e. the northern winter.  Maybe January or February of 2024?  Just guessing.  And item three, they're based somewhere near Atlanta.

 

So imagine this:  they fly to someplace in Europe in advance of the October cruise, but they do it with a one-way ticket rather than a round trip.  Sometimes one-way tickets to Europe can be affordable (often they're pricier than round trips, for reasons only known to the airlines) but one can always use frequent flyer miles for one-way trips.  

 

Anyway, they do their Med cruise, but then instead of flying straight home, they do a short hop to one of the European or Middle Eastern countries where RTW tickets are more favorably priced (WAY more favorably) than in the US, especially those for business class travel.  At present, these countries include Norway, Sweden and Egypt.  More about this later.

 

After a couple of hours' flight to, say, Oslo, they check in at the airport (maybe they've spent a day touring the city or countryside) and take the first flight using the RTW tickets they've purchased before leaving home.  They fly - in business class - to London, then change planes and fly in business class over the Atlantic to Atlanta.  Then it's back to work or "normal" life.  

 

RTW tickets allow up to 16 flights (takeoffs and landings) and are good for a year.  You have to cross both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans in the same direction, and you have to use the airlines in the alliance through which the ticket was purchased.  Depending on the specific ticket type, you're limited either by the total miles flown, or by the number of continents you touch in the course of the ticket - more of each costs more, duh.  But within those parameters, you have huge flexibility.  If they get back to Atlanta but want to travel someplace else in North America (including the Caribbean and Central America) before Australia, they can do so using that same ticket, and always in the pointy end.  

 

Then when the time comes to head off to Oz, the same ticket takes them there in business class, with flat beds, lounge access, lots of baggage allowances, all that.  They won't get to Sydney any faster, but they'll sure as hell arrive less destroyed by 20+ hours in the back of the bus. 

 

Cruise over, it's time to head home, but this time heading west from Australia.  They have to end the ticket in the country where they started using it, but they still might have a portion of a year left, so maybe they don't go back to Norway, they stop short in someplace like Spain, and "suspend" the RTW ticket, flying home on an award ticket (they'll have earned a ton of points in the course of the RTW) then sometime before the ticket expires, return to Europe and take another cruise, or head off on some land-based trip, Paris in the spring, whatever.  End up in Norway before the ticket's year is up, then come home.  Or maybe buy another RTW for the next year's "master plan" travels.  See how that works?

 

Numbers.  A Oneworld (American, British, Japan, Qantas, Cathay Pacific et al) business class 4-continent RTW ticket with travel starting in Norway has a base price of US$5291.  The same ticket, but starting and ending in the USA, costs $11,071. Yes, more than double.  Can you get to Norway and back for something like $6K?  Again, duh.  

 

Have a look at a post I contributed to another thread last month, which goes a bit deeper into the weeds on these products, Here's the link: 

Food for thought, maybe.

 

[Globaliser]

5 hours ago, mickeysgal said:

If you don’t mind me asking, why is the North America/europe harder for you jet lag wise than flying to Sydney?

 

Because most of the flights leave North America in the early evening, before bedtime (if my body clock has adjusted to local time), and arrive first thing in the morning. It's hard to get to sleep when your body isn't ready for it, especially if the cabin is busy with a meal service. These flights are short, so by the time it is bedtime, there's perhaps only a couple of hours before the cabin crew are setting up for the second service. That's hardly enough time to get a nap, let alone any decent sleep. So I arrive in Europe having almost been up all night, but I then have to deal with a new day - and my body clock thinks it's about 3 am which is the lowest point of the circadian cycle so I feel like death warmed up.

 

It's a bit better if I can pick a flight that leaves North America close to midnight, but there aren't many of them. Even then, getting any sort of real sleep involves being determined to avoid all of the onboard service - I might then manage about 5 or so hours between New York and London.

 

Flying from London to Sydney, I will usually pick a flight that leaves later in the evening. If the first sector is something 12 or 13 hours long, that's enough time to get a decent sleep overnight when my body thinks it's night time. Then there's time for a further sleep on the second sector. It's no picnic, and I still have to deal with a bigger time difference between London and Sydney, but I don't feel nearly as bad as getting off in London after an eastbound trans-Atlantic.

[mickeysgal]

23 minutes ago, Globaliser said:

 

Because most of the flights leave North America in the early evening, before bedtime (if my body clock has adjusted to local time), and arrive first thing in the morning. It's hard to get to sleep when your body isn't ready for it, especially if the cabin is busy with a meal service. These flights are short, so by the time it is bedtime, there's perhaps only a couple of hours before the cabin crew are setting up for the second service. That's hardly enough time to get a nap, let alone any decent sleep. So I arrive in Europe having almost been up all night, but I then have to deal with a new day - and my body clock thinks it's about 3 am which is the lowest point of the circadian cycle so I feel like death warmed up.

 

It's a bit better if I can pick a flight that leaves North America close to midnight, but there aren't many of them. Even then, getting any sort of real sleep involves being determined to avoid all of the onboard service - I might then manage about 5 or so hours between New York and London.

 

Flying from London to Sydney, I will usually pick a flight that leaves later in the evening. If the first sector is something 12 or 13 hours long, that's enough time to get a decent sleep overnight when my body thinks it's night time. Then there's time for a further sleep on the second sector. It's no picnic, and I still have to deal with a bigger time difference between London and Sydney, but I don't feel nearly as bad as getting off in London after an eastbound trans-Atlantic.

Thank you for explaining. 

[SelectSys]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:39 PM, mickeysgal said:

Flying out of Atl to Sydney.

 

To me the time difference between locations is probably the most significant factor - at least for me - in terms of experiencing jet lag.  However the # of hours difference between Sydney and Atlanta changes throughout the year because of daylight savings time and the fact that the cities are on different sides of the equator.  The time difference can be as much as 10 hours and as few as 8 hours.  The shorter time change is during the US winter which coincides with many cruises from Australia to New Zealand.

 

Here is a webpage that helps you determine the time change for your specific travel dates:

http://en.timeofdate.com/time/diff/Australia/Sydney/with/United States/Atlanta

[dd likes to cruise]

I don’t notice one direction being worst for me. No matter which direction we fly, going on vacation is better.  You have many things to do and see and you don’t want to waste a minute. So you just barrel thru.  When you get home, I find it much easier to be lazy about in and it takes many days for me to get over it. 

[mickeysgal]

19 hours ago, Gardyloo said:

I really am a broken record on this (as in, get a life) but out of curiosity I had a look at the OP's other posts and it appears that they're going on a Mediterranean/Middle East cruise sometime later this year, I assume prior to the Australia trip.  (To the OP, I'm not trying to be intrusive, but maybe this could help you or others down the road.)

 

On several occasions I've posted to this board on the possible use of "round the world" (abbreviated "RTW") tickets for cruisers who take multiple trips over the course of a year.  These aren't widely known in the cruising community but they can offer some good value, provided one is prepared to sit down and think in advance about a year's or two years' travel plans, either linked with cruises or other travel, basically a travel "master plan."

 

Take what little I know about the OP's plans for the next year or so (and again, I'm trying to be general here, not specific, and not trying to pry.)  Item one, they're traveling to the Mediterranean for a cruise - in October I think.  Item two, they're planning a trip - presumably for a cruise - in or around Australia at some time in the near future.  I don't know when that is but I'm going to assume it's in the southern summer or thereabouts, i.e. the northern winter.  Maybe January or February of 2024?  Just guessing.  And item three, they're based somewhere near Atlanta.

 

So imagine this:  they fly to someplace in Europe in advance of the October cruise, but they do it with a one-way ticket rather than a round trip.  Sometimes one-way tickets to Europe can be affordable (often they're pricier than round trips, for reasons only known to the airlines) but one can always use frequent flyer miles for one-way trips.  

 

Anyway, they do their Med cruise, but then instead of flying straight home, they do a short hop to one of the European or Middle Eastern countries where RTW tickets are more favorably priced (WAY more favorably) than in the US, especially those for business class travel.  At present, these countries include Norway, Sweden and Egypt.  More about this later.

 

After a couple of hours' flight to, say, Oslo, they check in at the airport (maybe they've spent a day touring the city or countryside) and take the first flight using the RTW tickets they've purchased before leaving home.  They fly - in business class - to London, then change planes and fly in business class over the Atlantic to Atlanta.  Then it's back to work or "normal" life.  

 

RTW tickets allow up to 16 flights (takeoffs and landings) and are good for a year.  You have to cross both the Atlantic and Pacific oceans in the same direction, and you have to use the airlines in the alliance through which the ticket was purchased.  Depending on the specific ticket type, you're limited either by the total miles flown, or by the number of continents you touch in the course of the ticket - more of each costs more, duh.  But within those parameters, you have huge flexibility.  If they get back to Atlanta but want to travel someplace else in North America (including the Caribbean and Central America) before Australia, they can do so using that same ticket, and always in the pointy end.  

 

Then when the time comes to head off to Oz, the same ticket takes them there in business class, with flat beds, lounge access, lots of baggage allowances, all that.  They won't get to Sydney any faster, but they'll sure as hell arrive less destroyed by 20+ hours in the back of the bus. 

 

Cruise over, it's time to head home, but this time heading west from Australia.  They have to end the ticket in the country where they started using it, but they still might have a portion of a year left, so maybe they don't go back to Norway, they stop short in someplace like Spain, and "suspend" the RTW ticket, flying home on an award ticket (they'll have earned a ton of points in the course of the RTW) then sometime before the ticket expires, return to Europe and take another cruise, or head off on some land-based trip, Paris in the spring, whatever.  End up in Norway before the ticket's year is up, then come home.  Or maybe buy another RTW for the next year's "master plan" travels.  See how that works?

 

Numbers.  A Oneworld (American, British, Japan, Qantas, Cathay Pacific et al) business class 4-continent RTW ticket with travel starting in Norway has a base price of US$5291.  The same ticket, but starting and ending in the USA, costs $11,071. Yes, more than double.  Can you get to Norway and back for something like $6K?  Again, duh.  

 

Have a look at a post I contributed to another thread last month, which goes a bit deeper into the weeds on these products, Here's the link: 

Food for thought, maybe.

 

This is a very interesting and unique approach. One I haven’t heard of. Thanks for the detail on this. I can see how this could be of benefit. 

[Zach1213]

On 6/11/2023 at 4:06 AM, Globaliser said:

FWIW, the flights I hate most for jet lag are the short overnights from North America to London/Europe. I can deal more easily with the jet lag flying from London to Sydney or back.

Just the worst. I currently live in Kansas City and am loyal to American, so if I am flying to Europe I often have the choice of Chicago or Dallas. If I can't make the daytime ORD-LHR flight and have to do an overnight, I'll often backtrack to Dallas so I can get a longer flight to Europe and allow for more sleep. But I've done BOS-LHR and JFK-LHR a few times, and those are truly awful if you can't get the daytime flight (BUT, that daytime BOS-LHR that gets you in at like 7pm is nothing short of magical...much better than the ORD-LHR that arrives at 10:30pm). 

[aungrl]

13 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

Just the worst. I currently live in Kansas City and am loyal to American, so if I am flying to Europe I often have the choice of Chicago or Dallas. If I can't make the daytime ORD-LHR flight and have to do an overnight, I'll often backtrack to Dallas so I can get a longer flight to Europe and allow for more sleep. But I've done BOS-LHR and JFK-LHR a few times, and those are truly awful if you can't get the daytime flight (BUT, that daytime BOS-LHR that gets you in at like 7pm is nothing short of magical...much better than the ORD-LHR that arrives at 10:30pm). 

Could not agree more!  I've actually back-tracked from DC area to Chicago in order to catch the ORD-LHR daytime flight, when BOS-LHR wasn't available.  Flying across in the day time makes all the difference for me in terms of avoiding jet lag.  (People always argue that I'm 'wasting a day' on the airplane.  For me, at least, I waste the first day anyway if I fly overnight because I feel yucky.)

[cruiselvr04]

Doing the trip to Sydney in 2024.  We just bought our tickets.  I had wanted non stop but the one stop in LAX was too much of a bargain to pass up.  We are doing only main cabin but at least got to pick our seats.  We are flying in 3 days prior hoping to feel normal by the cruise.  
 

I’m worried about the long flight too.  Hoping to sleep but regardless since I’ve worked nights as an RN the best thing to do is push yourself to adjust. We might nap the first day after we arrive but strictly set an alarm after a couple of hours and force ourselves to get out and walk around as long as we can until exhausted.  Then bedtime hopefully at a somewhat normal time for the new time zone.  I figure if I sleep 4-6 hours I can survive.  I did it all the time when working night shifts.  Did I feel good?  Nope.  Did I micro sleep on my hour drive home?  Yep.  This is one reason we won’t fly internationally now unless it’s at least 2 weeks. The jet lag is too brutal. 

[mickeysgal]

2 hours ago, cruiselvr04 said:

Doing the trip to Sydney in 2024.  We just bought our tickets.  I had wanted non stop but the one stop in LAX was too much of a bargain to pass up.  We are doing only main cabin but at least got to pick our seats.  We are flying in 3 days prior hoping to feel normal by the cruise.  
 

I’m worried about the long flight too.  Hoping to sleep but regardless since I’ve worked nights as an RN the best thing to do is push yourself to adjust. We might nap the first day after we arrive but strictly set an alarm after a couple of hours and force ourselves to get out and walk around as long as we can until exhausted.  Then bedtime hopefully at a somewhat normal time for the new time zone.  I figure if I sleep 4-6 hours I can survive.  I did it all the time when working night shifts.  Did I feel good?  Nope.  Did I micro sleep on my hour drive home?  Yep.  This is one reason we won’t fly internationally now unless it’s at least 2 weeks. The jet lag is too brutal. 

What airline did you find was a bargain?  We too are looking at a layover.  We prefer Delta but are open to others.

[cruiselvr04]

It was Delta.  When we first started looking we were seeing $2400 pp RT Sydney.  We got main cabin economy with a long layover each way at LAX for $2700 total for 2 and that included several upgraded seats.  We could have upgraded at that time for 1k each to premium but didn’t really think it’s worth it. 

[jsglow]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:31 AM, Zach1213 said:

Just the worst. I currently live in Kansas City and am loyal to American, so if I am flying to Europe I often have the choice of Chicago or Dallas. If I can't make the daytime ORD-LHR flight and have to do an overnight, I'll often backtrack to Dallas so I can get a longer flight to Europe and allow for more sleep. But I've done BOS-LHR and JFK-LHR a few times, and those are truly awful if you can't get the daytime flight (BUT, that daytime BOS-LHR that gets you in at like 7pm is nothing short of magical...much better than the ORD-LHR that arrives at 10:30pm). 

This is super interesting to me.  We will be doing our first daytime flight to Europe this coming August.  AA#90, ORD-LHR. Time zone change is very hard for me so I'm glad to hear this makes it easier. I've powered through that overnight in the past and survived but looking forward to some decent sleep in a real bed before the flight and then going straight to our hotel upon arriving in London.  I'm guessing that next morning we should feel pretty rested. That first day when one arrives in Europe at 8am is tough.

Edited June 15, 2023 by jsglow

[Zach1213]

2 hours ago, jsglow said:

This is super interesting to me.  We will be doing our first daytime flight to Europe this coming August.  AA#90, ORD-LHR. Time zone change is very hard for me so I'm glad to hear this makes it easier. I've powered through that overnight in the past and survived but looking forward to some decent sleep in a real bed before the flight and then going straight to our hotel upon arriving in London.  I'm guessing that next morning we should feel pretty rested. That first day when one arrives in Europe at 8am is tough.

I am an AA90 regular...I take it several times each year, and love it. I wish it didn't arrive quite so late, but it's still better that an overnight. Whenever I do fly in on AA90, it helps a lot. 

 

If I am staying in London, I usually go straight to my hotel in the city; if I am going anywhere else (either my plane or train), I usually stay at the airport overnight (Sofitel T5, usually), have a few drinks, and fall asleep around 1am...I then sleep in until 9am-ish and I am pretty well adjusted. 

[jsglow]

1 hour ago, Zach1213 said:

I am an AA90 regular...I take it several times each year, and love it. I wish it didn't arrive quite so late, but it's still better that an overnight. Whenever I do fly in on AA90, it helps a lot. 

 

If I am staying in London, I usually go straight to my hotel in the city; if I am going anywhere else (either my plane or train), I usually stay at the airport overnight (Sofitel T5, usually), have a few drinks, and fall asleep around 1am...I then sleep in until 9am-ish and I am pretty well adjusted. 

We had anticipated doing the overnight (landing the following morning) and already have lodging down in London for 3 nights prior to our cruise. We booked a single night at the Holiday Inn Express by Terminal 4. Never been to London so wanted to make that first night as easy as possible. Into the city in the morning.

Edited June 15, 2023 by jsglow

[mickeysgal]

9 hours ago, cruiselvr04 said:

It was Delta.  When we first started looking we were seeing $2400 pp RT Sydney.  We got main cabin economy with a long layover each way at LAX for $2700 total for 2 and that included several upgraded seats.  We could have upgraded at that time for 1k each to premium but didn’t really think it’s worth it. 

That IS a fantastic rate. Currently we are seeing 2k a person - main cabin.