Is it time to exit the "X"?

[weregoingcruising]

2 hours ago, QuestionEverything said:

We were guests of Celebrity from 1989 to 2018. The class apartheid on Celebrity is the reason we do not patronize this line any further PLUS your excellent point about no forward view on the E class.       

We will not tolerate the elimination of key ship features like a forward view.

Now cruising on the premium and luxury lines who have minimal class apartheid and all of whom have outstanding forward views for EVERYONE.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

I have a question for QuestionEverything.  Do you need more reasons why it  Is time to exit Celebrity?

[chemmo]

2 hours ago, QuestionEverything said:

We were guests of Celebrity from 1989 to 2018. The class apartheid on Celebrity is the reason we do not patronize this line any further PLUS your excellent point about no forward view on the E class.       

We will not tolerate the elimination of key ship features like a forward view.

Now cruising on the premium and luxury lines who have minimal class apartheid and all of whom have outstanding forward views for EVERYONE.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

I am a cruiser with mobility issues who can no longer enjoy port excursions as they did…Also as travel to and from ports can be challenging my frequency of cruising has diminished too. Hence when I do cruise I do book suites! I make no excuse for enjoying the perks I have chosen to pay for.

 

A bigger room with a nice balcony

A butler and a concierge to help with some mundane tasks

A nice lounge with great service, lots of comfortable chairs and not too busy

A smaller restaurant 

A sun deck on some ships which will be quieter.

 

In addition I have a lovely big ship with lots of restaurant and entertainment options. I am not stuck in the suite area.

 

There is no ‘class’ on Celebrity there are spending options….I pay to be in a suite for the facilities I want. Exactly as someone in an inside cabin has saved their $$$ on room choice to spend on cruising more, excursions or a new car back home! 
 

I wish you every happiness on your future cruises and if you have found a cruise line that suits you I am really pleased for you but don’t expect us all to want the same…
 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by chemmo

[cgolf1]

1 hour ago, OysterD said:

Ignoring your use of the completely inappropriate and inaccurate word 'apartheid', to describe Celebrity (and most other cruise lines) having areas on their ships designated for suite passengers, I'm curious, what exactly do you expect? No cruise line should have any areas designated for suite passengers? All cabins should be identical and everyone on board should pay the same and receive exactly the same amenities? 

 

Oh, and I'm assuming you also refuse to travel on any airline that offers first class seats/lounges, or stay in hotel chains which have lounges for certain room categories, or use train companies that have a first class carriages.

 

PS I much prefer a view out the back of a ship, and I'm not the only one. I found the forward lounge was empty most of the time on my last few cruises. Celebrity know exactly how many people use each area of the ship. If the Sky Observation Lounge was such a bustling popular area of the ship I'm pretty sure they would have kept it with their new ship designs. I'm glad they didn't. 

 

Having an area set aside for retreat guests not an issue, we partook in that on Disney a couple of times and realized that level of service wasn't for us. What I was pointing out is that on the E class there is no outdoor option to get a view looking out over the bow. The only non pay forward view I know of is the gym. So to me that is a big issue, but not worth the retreat price to get the view.

 

The forward view can be enjoyable, but at least we get a wake view, which I don't know why I can spend a lot of time staring at the wake lol.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

12 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

 

Having an area set aside for retreat guests not an issue, we partook in that on Disney a couple of times and realized that level of service wasn't for us. What I was pointing out is that on the E class there is no outdoor option to get a view looking out over the bow. The only non pay forward view I know of is the gym. So to me that is a big issue, but not worth the retreat price to get the view.

 

The forward view can be enjoyable, but at least we get a wake view, which I don't know why I can spend a lot of time staring at the wake lol.

I always thought the gym was in a strange location , you think it should be on deck 1 , it does need windows 

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, OysterD said:

Ignoring your use of the completely inappropriate and inaccurate word 'apartheid', to describe Celebrity (and most other cruise lines) having areas on their ships designated for suite passengers, I'm curious, what exactly do you expect? No cruise line should have any areas designated for suite passengers? All cabins should be identical and everyone on board should pay the same and receive exactly the same amenities? 

 

Oh, and I'm assuming you also refuse to travel on any airline that offers first class seats/lounges, or stay in hotel chains which have lounges for certain room categories, or use train companies that have a first class carriages.

 

PS I much prefer a view out the back of a ship, and I'm not the only one. I found the forward lounge was empty most of the time on my last few cruises. Celebrity know exactly how many people use each area of the ship. If the Sky Observation Lounge was such a bustling popular area of the ship I'm pretty sure they would have kept it with their new ship designs. I'm glad they didn't. 

An apple to orange comparison.

 

On cruise ships there is a limited amount of public space when you allocate more of that space to a limited group of passengers, you reduce the amount of public space and facilities available to others.

 

On airlines what the economy passenger gets is the same. Does not matter if the plane is all economy, has first, business or not. The space allocated to economy does not change. the only impact is if economy can access the toilet at the front of the plane.

 

Pretty much the same with hotels, with the exception of some all inclusive where you get different wrist bands depending upon the class of service. Unlike cruise ships one can leave the hotel property and go to another dining venue.

 

The airline equivalent to the cruise ship class system would if they decided to restrict seating at the gate to only those with first or business class tickets.

[cgolf1]

40 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

I always thought the gym was in a strange location , you think it should be on deck 1 , it does need windows 

 

Other than being a little confusing to find it was fine. I wasn't saying it should be moved, but we can get a windowed view off the bow there, but not a place to casually sit or stand and watch the ocean pass by. 

 

The E class is just a quirky build of ship and on our second trip on it, we realized we were initially wowed by the quality music around the ship, the shows, and the magic carpet always being available. Second time around the music and the shows weren't as good and the magic carpet was always full we realized we didn't like the E class ships as much as we thought we did.

[KKB]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:41 PM, kiterp said:

My recent cruise caused me to wonder about the direction Celebrity is headed. The Summit is a well maintained vessel with staff that is very friendly. The quality of the food was good.

There were, however, several areas of major concern. One, the dress code has become a total joke. Celebrity promotes itself as a "luxury" line but allows its passengers to dress inappropriately in various dining venues. Shorts, which are banned at dinner, were often noticed in the main dining room. Although tank tops and baseball caps are prohibited in the speciality dining rooms, patrons were wearing both when I ate in the Sushi on Five dining venue. Why have codes if they are never enforced? Two,they continue to downgrade the benefits offered to the Captain's Club higher tier members. They have a limited drink menu from 5 - 7 PM at the bars. This means you have about a 30 minute window to enjoy your benefit if you have the 5:30 PM seating. Wow, you spend tens of thousands of dollars for cruises and are given a 30 minute window! Three, they are beginning to recycle headliner entertainment. Three of the acts were the exact same ones we saw on the Constellation in February. Can't Celebrity offer a more diverse selection? Four, the entree selection number has been reduced as well as the serving sizes. Several nights saw only four selections for entrees when there used to be six or seven.

I am an Elite Plus CC member and this was my twentieth Celebrity cruise. I wonder if it is time to switch to Princess or other similar lines?

You aren't going to find better on any mainstream line, imo.

Celebrity is our fav--we feel food & service r a step above other lines.

Eclass ships are a step above Celebrity's other ships, imo.

ALL cruise lines have become more casual.

ALL cruise lines have cut costs & it is a bit noticeable--can vary by line, but it might be room serviced only 1x/day, fewer staff, fewer entree offerings, upcharges for things that used to be included, etc.

ALL cruise lines have cut offerings for their reward programs--plus if you go to another line, you start at the bottom anyway!

Unless you are willing to move up to true luxury lines, this is where mainstream cruising is post-COVID.

 

[Gracie115]

4 hours ago, KKB said:

You aren't going to find better on any mainstream line, imo.

Celebrity is our fav--we feel food & service r a step above other lines.

Eclass ships are a step above Celebrity's other ships, imo.

ALL cruise lines have become more casual.

ALL cruise lines have cut costs & it is a bit noticeable--can vary by line, but it might be room serviced only 1x/day, fewer staff, fewer entree offerings, upcharges for things that used to be included, etc.

ALL cruise lines have cut offerings for their reward programs--plus if you go to another line, you start at the bottom anyway!

Unless you are willing to move up to true luxury lines, this is where mainstream cruising is post-COVID.

 

 

OR you could just not cruise for awhile until the prices being charged are at least equal to the entertainment, food, service, perks being offered.  That's the choice we've made.  Our last 2 cruises on X in the Retreat left us feeling we are getting less and paying much much more.  

 

We'll just see how things are in a few years.  

[KKB]

8 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

 

OR you could just not cruise for awhile until the prices being charged are at least equal to the entertainment, food, service, perks being offered.  That's the choice we've made.  Our last 2 cruises on X in the Retreat left us feeling we are getting less and paying much much more.  

 

We'll just see how things are in a few years.  

We did Retreat in April when we got an amazing deal.

Loved it--but is it worth the normally huge price difference to non-Retreat?

Not for us.

[phoenix_dream]

On 7/26/2023 at 4:48 PM, neverlaysup said:

Getting rid of QSine and putting in La Petit Chef has ruined my specialty dining options. If they get rid of Murano on S class ships, I may have to move on!!

I know - I so miss the old QSine.  I did La Petit once when I was lucky enough to score a Royal Suite because speciatlies are included and it was ok, but definitely a one and done for me!  I used to eat at Qsine at least once per cruise before they did away with it.  

[phoenix_dream]

43 minutes ago, KKB said:

We did Retreat in April when we got an amazing deal.

Loved it--but is it worth the normally huge price difference to non-Retreat?

Not for us.

We did a number of Retreat sailings last year and early this year, even once in a Royal Suite.  Now, looking at the prices, I can't bring myself to book anything higher than Aqua, and even that is really high due to all included, which frustrates me as I already get most of those perks all included at the Zenith level so I am in essence paying for a perk I don't need.  I know, poor me and all that, but it is very frustrating.  As a senior I don't know how many more years I will be able to enjoy the traveling I do now, and that also makes it frustrating when the ships are filling up with so many younger folks these days (which I know delights Celebrity).  And that is not a slam at younger people, it is what it is, but I don't think many non-seniors realize how much this impacts us, especially the older seniors.  Our traveling days are limited (how much we don't know) and we are facing such high prices traveling, as well as crowds everywhere.  So much for the retirement we dreamed about.  

[NMTraveller]

8 hours ago, cgolf1 said:

 

Having an area set aside for retreat guests not an issue, we partook in that on Disney a couple of times and realized that level of service wasn't for us. What I was pointing out is that on the E class there is no outdoor option to get a view looking out over the bow. 

Just one of many shortcomings of E class.

[Gracie115]

18 hours ago, cgolf1 said:

 

Having an area set aside for retreat guests not an issue, we partook in that on Disney a couple of times and realized that level of service wasn't for us. What I was pointing out is that on the E class there is no outdoor option to get a view looking out over the bow. The only non pay forward view I know of is the gym. So to me that is a big issue, but not worth the retreat price to get the view.

 

 

9 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Just one of many shortcomings of E class.

 

 

Agree, and we have sailed in a suite twice on E class.  The  retreat deck was nice but mostly unused by anyone, a shame that all on the ship were unable to access this area.  The elimination of the Sky Lounge for all to enjoy like the S class was a bad choice.  

 

We may sail Celebrity again someday in the future, it will NOT be on an E Class ship.

[QuestionEverything]

21 hours ago, OysterD said:

Ignoring your use of the completely inappropriate and inaccurate word 'apartheid', to describe Celebrity (and most other cruise lines) having areas on their ships designated for suite passengers, I'm curious, what exactly do you expect? No cruise line should have any areas designated for suite passengers? All cabins should be identical and everyone on board should pay the same and receive exactly the same amenities? 

 

Oh, and I'm assuming you also refuse to travel on any airline that offers first class seats/lounges, or stay in hotel chains which have lounges for certain room categories, or use train companies that have a first class carriages.

 

PS I much prefer a view out the back of a ship, and I'm not the only one. I found the forward lounge was empty most of the time on my last few cruises. Celebrity know exactly how many people use each area of the ship. If the Sky Observation Lounge was such a bustling popular area of the ship I'm pretty sure they would have kept it with their new ship designs. I'm glad they didn't. 

 

I enjoy the premium and luxury class because I can pay for first class accommodations and have essentially the full run of the ship, unlike the mass lines that physically restrict entry to significant spaces. 

Do you remember the start of the cruise industry?  The original executives of NCL, Carnival etc called Cunard and the French line apartheid lines because they segmented their ships and denied people entry. They were rude, condescending to both Cunard and the French line. They ranted that all guests on their line would have full access to their ships.....................................

Fast forward to 2016 onwards ........................

What goes around comes around indeed.

 

[C4HCG]

12 minutes ago, QuestionEverything said:

 

I enjoy the premium and luxury class because I can pay for first class accommodations and have essentially the full run of the ship, unlike the mass lines that physically restrict entry to significant spaces. 

Do you remember the start of the cruise industry?  The original executives of NCL, Carnival etc called Cunard and the French line apartheid lines because they segmented their ships and denied people entry. They were rude, condescending to both Cunard and the French line. They ranted that all guests on their line would have full access to their ships.....................................

Fast forward to 2016 onwards ........................

What goes around comes around indeed.

 

Can’t you pay for first class accommodation on Celebrity and have the full run of the ship, isn’t that the suites? Sailing on Edge class next May for the first time, non-suite, am sure we will love it and will spend no time at all wondering about what we are missing.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

13 minutes ago, QuestionEverything said:

 

I enjoy the premium and luxury class because I can pay for first class accommodations and have essentially the full run of the ship, unlike the mass lines that physically restrict entry to significant spaces. 

Do you remember the start of the cruise industry?  The original executives of NCL, Carnival etc called Cunard and the French line apartheid lines because they segmented their ships and denied people entry. They were rude, condescending to both Cunard and the French line. They ranted that all guests on their line would have full access to their ships.....................................

Fast forward to 2016 onwards ........................

What goes around comes around indeed.

 

I wonder why a person who doesn’t cruise on Celebrity would come to brag that they can afford to cruise a premium line 🤔

You haven’t cruised on Celebrity in over 5 years , so you really don’t have anything to new to add

time to remove stress  in your life and move on  😉

[weregoingcruising]

13 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

We did a number of Retreat sailings last year and early this year, even once in a Royal Suite.  Now, looking at the prices, I can't bring myself to book anything higher than Aqua, and even that is really high due to all included, which frustrates me as I already get most of those perks all included at the Zenith level so I am in essence paying for a perk I don't need.  I know, poor me and all that, but it is very frustrating.  As a senior I don't know how many more years I will be able to enjoy the traveling I do now, and that also makes it frustrating when the ships are filling up with so many younger folks these days (which I know delights Celebrity).  And that is not a slam at younger people, it is what it is, but I don't think many non-seniors realize how much this impacts us, especially the older seniors.  Our traveling days are limited (how much we don't know) and we are facing such high prices traveling, as well as crowds everywhere.  So much for the retirement we dreamed about.  

I'm very sorry for your loss.

[C4HCG]

11 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Just one of many shortcomings of E class.

This and infinite verandahs aside, what are the other “many shortcomings”.

 

Reason I ask is we are trying out the Edge class first time next May and am keen to learn from your experiences from when you’ve sailed on that class. We have an IV room and despite negative reviews, we think we might enjoy it, time will tell. But what else should we expect as shortcomings, would really help manage our expectations.

[hcat]

14 hours ago, KKB said:

We did Retreat in April when we got an amazing deal.

Loved it--but is it worth the normally huge price difference to non-Retreat?

Not for us.

We agree.

.We got our Suite / Retreat on BEYOND by using up all our deferred FCCs.  Glad we did it..always wanted to try a suite but other than the larger cabin and priority on and off..not worth it for us. We  did not care for LUMINAE menu or layout  and thought the Retreat loung was wasted space. a The outdoor retreat area  was lovely but crowded other than on port days and " taken over" by various groups. Did not really need a butler to pamper us!

 

We enjoy E class ships..Our sweet spot on X has always been AQ Class ..and if those are priced too high a Sunset Ver is nice too with  the 4 mdrs..

 

no reason yet to switch cruise lines unless the VAPING becones pervasive!

 

 

[hcat]

48 minutes ago, QuestionEverything said:

 

I enjoy the premium and luxury class because I can pay for first class accommodations and have essentially the full run of the ship, unlike the mass lines that physically restrict entry to significant spaces. 

Do you remember the start of the cruise industry?  The original executives of NCL, Carnival etc called Cunard and the French line apartheid lines because they segmented their ships and denied people entry. They were rude, condescending to both Cunard and the French line. They ranted that all guests on their line would have full access to their ships.....................................

Fast forward to 2016 onwards ........................

What goes around comes around indeed.

 

and we see how Carnival and NCL have developed!

[NMTraveller]

1 hour ago, C4HCG said:

This and infinite verandahs aside, what are the other “many shortcomings”.

 

Reason I ask is we are trying out the Edge class first time next May and am keen to learn from your experiences from when you’ve sailed on that class. We have an IV room and despite negative reviews, we think we might enjoy it, time will tell. But what else should we expect as shortcomings, would really help manage our expectations.

1.  No Sky Lounge or forward looking view.

2.  Very few balconies.

3.  There are fewer bars on E class and they are larger and loud and shouty.  The martini bar on S class is much nicer than on E.  It is much easier to get a drink on S class.

4.  No Cellar Masters or World Class bar.

5.  There are very few windows while walking around the ship.  You do have views of the expensive stores.  Ugghh.

6.  You can easily take pictures from the lawn club while sailing into port from multiple angles.  The deck on E is obscured.

7.  The magic carpet is nice for excursions but it is overhyped as it is too windy when the ship is moving.

8. The specialty restaurants on E class tend to be more loud and shouty.  S class Muranos has rooms of rooms which are more intimate and quiet.

9.  I could add more but do not want to pile on.

Edited July 28, 2023 by NMTraveller

[TeeRick]

21 hours ago, chemmo said:

 

There is no ‘class’ on Celebrity there are spending options….I pay to be in a suite for the facilities I want. Exactly as someone in an inside cabin has saved their $$$ on room choice to spend on cruising more, excursions or a new car back home! 

Yes it is a vacation choice and a personal spending option.  Your money, your choice.  But there are a few posts here on occasion that want to call it a class distinction.  I love it when they refer to themselves as Steerage sometimes, on a luxury/modern cruise ship no less!  This is a discussion on these boards that will go on forever.   But I do agree that on E-Class design, the front of the ship view should have had an area open to every passenger.  If that is very important, folks should use their own vacation choice and money and sail S- or M-Class or another line.  Just like if you truly want a traditional balcony cabin.  Lots of ships and cruise lines out there!

[C4HCG]

16 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

1.  No Sky Lounge or forward looking view.

2.  Very few balconies.

3.  There are fewer bars on E class and they are larger and loud and shouty.  The martini bar on S class is much nicer than on E.  It is much easier to get a drink on S class.

4.  No Cellar Masters or World Class bar.

5.  There are very few windows while walking around the ship.  You do have views of the expensive stores.  Ugghh.

6.  You can easily take pictures from the lawn club while sailing into port from multiple angles.  The deck on E is obscured.

7.  The magic carpet is nice for excursions but it is overhyped as it is too windy when the ship is moving.

8. The specialty restaurants on E class tend to be more loud and shouty.  S class Muranos has rooms of rooms which are more intimate and quiet.

9.  I could add more but do not want to pile on.

Please pile on, be good to understand the full list of potential things we won’t like. Of the ones you’ve listed so far 1 and 2 we knew about, 3 to 8 reckon we can live with but we’ll see.

 

thank you.

[Gracie115]

18 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

1.  No Sky Lounge or forward looking view.

2.  Very few balconies.

3.  There are fewer bars on E class and they are larger and loud and shouty.  The martini bar on S class is much nicer than on E.  It is much easier to get a drink on S class.

4.  No Cellar Masters or World Class bar.

5.  There are very few windows while walking around the ship.  You do have views of the expensive stores.  Ugghh.

6.  You can easily take pictures from the lawn club while sailing into port from multiple angles.  The deck on E is obscured.

7.  The magic carpet is nice for excursions but it is overhyped as it is too windy when the ship is moving.

8. The specialty restaurants on E class tend to be more loud and shouty.  S class Muranos has rooms of rooms which are more intimate and quiet.

9.  I could add more but do not want to pile on.

 

All of this and more.....the "Martini" bar area is so loud that all we ever did was move as quickly past it as possible.  It is so close to both the La Petit Chef & Fine Cut steakhouse that the music invades on the experience in those venues, especially La Petit

[C4HCG]

4 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

 

All of this and more.....the "Martini" bar area is so loud that all we ever did was move as quickly past it as possible.  It is so close to both the La Petit Chef & Fine Cut steakhouse that the music invades on the experience in those venues, especially La Petit

Thanks - good to have this background.