New dress code on the Silver Nova!!

[GaitherBill]

On 8/8/2023 at 1:31 PM, ronrick1943 said:

Like I said before it was only a matter of time before a change in the dress code.  Finally Silversea is doing what the customer wants……..if they want to fill ships they have to do what the public wants.

 

Speak for yourself, not this customer. 

[ronrick1943]

4 hours ago, GaitherBill said:

Speak for yourself, not this customer. 

I’m only specking for myself, it’s all about demographics and money, People should dress nicely where ever you are——but formal isn’t for everyone and one small segment shouldn’t rule for everyone.  If others want to dress formal - no problem and if they don’t want formal no problem.

[ak1004]

The problem is that dress code is not symmetric.

 

If the formal night is mandatory, all men have to wear jackets, like it or not.

 

If it's optional, men who like to wear a jacket (or a tux) can still do it. Men who don't, can just put a nice dressy shirt.

 

See the difference?

 

Oceania is always casual, but you still see some men wearing a suit and a tie (and occasionally even a tux).

 

Choice is good. Why force people to dress up on vacation if they don't want to?

[canderson]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

Choice is good. Why force people to dress up on vacation if they don't want to?

Largely because that's what they signed up for when booking.  It's part of what SS is selling, and if that's the crowd they want to attract from other lines who are dismayed by ever more lax dress standards elsewhere, it seems inappropriate to make a point of bucking their marketing concept as some occasionally do.

 

Cruise lines all sell 'vacations', but some sell very different 'experiences'.  Part.of the SS 'experience' remains a certain level of dress on formal nights in most venues.  Nobody is forced to 'dress up' since they have choices about what kind of vacation they book.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by canderson

[A Tucson Guy]

2 minutes ago, canderson said:

Largely because that's what they signed up for when booking.  It's part of what SS is selling, and if that's the crowd they want to attract from other lines who are dismayed by ever more lax dress standards elsewhere, it seems inappropriate to make a point of bucking their marketing concept as some occasionally do.

 

Cruise lines all sell 'vacations', but some sell very different 'experiences'.  Part.of the SS 'experience' remains a certain level of dress on formal nights in most venues.  Nobody is forced to 'dress up' since they have choices about what kind of vacation they book.

 

Just to repeat my starting post, now on the Silver Nova, men can wear slacks with a jacket (sports coat) and no tie. Some people may not consider this dressy but the times are a changing!! What SS is "selling" seems to be evolving.

[sanne]

As a long time cruiser of Regent and Seabourn, we have cruised on Silver Whisper many years ago and more recently on their expedition ships, I’m now looking at returning to Silverseas with the new relaxed dress code. I’m sure I’m not alone in the way I’m thinking now. 

[broker1217]

Well-I have to say that we book SS in spite of the dress code, not because of it. So I am pleased with the change on Nova.

I will always follow the appropriate dress code for each ship.

But if SS wants to stay relevant, they need to keep up and to evolve.

That means everything from dress codes to music to food and beverage choices and excursions.

Unfortunately for luxury lines, their target demographic is constantly aging. They need to change and evolve to stay relevant, Even if it upsets the traditionalists.

[canderson]

6 minutes ago, broker1217 said:

They need to change and evolve to stay relevant, Even if it upsets the traditionalists.

When Cunard starts having difficulties booking cabins on 'the 4 queens', or SS has problems (even at the higher prices for '24) booking cabins on their non-Nova ships, "relevance" will no doubt become a hotter topic in their respective boardrooms.  Until then, the demographic to whom they market their products seems to have both the cash and interest necessary to support the current business model.

 

There doesn't seem to be any reason to hurry toward the least common denominator just yet .. for which we and apparently many others are appreciative.

[ronrick1943]

2 hours ago, A Tucson Guy said:

Just to repeat my starting post, now on the Silver Nova, men can wear slacks with a jacket (sports coat) and no tie. Some people may not consider this dressy but the times are a changing!! What SS is "selling" seems to be evolving.

100% correct, and times will keep evolving.  SS looks at the Market for cruisers and they want a share of that Market and how it is changing. 

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, canderson said:

When Cunard starts having difficulties booking cabins on 'the 4 queens', or SS has problems (even at the higher prices for '24) booking cabins on their non-Nova ships, "relevance" will no doubt become a hotter topic in their respective boardrooms.  Until then, the demographic to whom they market their products seems to have both the cash and interest necessary to support the current business model.

 

There doesn't seem to be any reason to hurry toward the least common denominator just yet .. for which we and apparently many others are appreciative.

Aren't you "whistling past the graveyard"?  This idea that SS management is happy with the old dress code and sees no reason to change was just crushed by the new Nova dress code.  What is the new Nova dress code but a test, and most likely a foretaste of what's coming soon to all the SS ships?

[GaitherBill]

6 hours ago, ronrick1943 said:

I’m only specking for myself, it’s all about demographics and money, People should dress nicely where ever you are——but formal isn’t for everyone and one small segment shouldn’t rule for everyone.  If others want to dress formal - no problem and if they don’t want formal no problem.

 

So you’ve conducted extensive research? 
 

how do you know for a fact it’s only a small segment as you put it. 

[ronrick1943]

1 minute ago, GaitherBill said:

 

So you’ve conducted extensive research? 
 

how do you know for a fact it’s only a small segment as you put it. 

No, but Silversea has and they are making the move—-yes slowly, but going in the right direction.

[ak1004]

24 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Aren't you "whistling past the graveyard"?  This idea that SS management is happy with the old dress code and sees no reason to change was just crushed by the new Nova dress code.  What is the new Nova dress code but a test, and most likely a foretaste of what's coming soon to all the SS ships?

 

Pretty sure that this is the case. As it's not enough to have 3 different dress code levels (formal, informal and casual), having different dress codes on different ships would make SS the most confusing cruise line (not to mention 3-5 levels of pricing).

[A Tucson Guy]

22 minutes ago, GaitherBill said:

 

So you’ve conducted extensive research? 
 

how do you know for a fact it’s only a small segment as you put it. 

As was so aptly stated in a prior post, SS has done the research and the Nova (and Ray) will be the test cases. The rest of the ships will follow. Clearly the majority of affluent cruisers want "country club casual) like Regent and Seabourn or SS would not have made the change.

[broker1217]

3 hours ago, canderson said:

When Cunard starts having difficulties booking cabins on 'the 4 queens', or SS has problems (even at the higher prices for '24) booking cabins on their non-Nova ships, "relevance" will no doubt become a hotter topic in their respective boardrooms.  Until then, the demographic to whom they market their products seems to have both the cash and interest necessary to support the current business model.

 

There doesn't seem to be any reason to hurry toward the least common denominator just yet .. for which we and apparently many others are appreciative.

I think the flaw in this logic is that people are choosing SS (or Cunard) only for the dress code. I have the cash and interest necessary to book SS.

I like many things about SS—food, wine, service, public spaces, dining options, itineraries, etc. I tolerate the dress code and adhere to it, but I find it antiquated.

 

My question to you is—-if you are allowed/encouraged to dress formally at your discretion on SS, why is it a problem if others choose to not dress formally?

Why are you alluding to lowest common denominator  and what do you mean by that? 
I am genuinely curious. Does it impact your experience in a negative manner if others are wearing a jacket and dress pants and no tie?

 

[canderson]

13 minutes ago, broker1217 said:

I think the flaw in this logic is that people are choosing SS (or Cunard) only for the dress code. I have the cash and interest necessary to book SS.

I like many things about SS—food, wine, service, public spaces, dining options, itineraries, etc. I tolerate the dress code and adhere to it, but I find it antiquated.

 

My question to you is—-if you are allowed/encouraged to dress formally at your discretion on SS, why is it a problem if others choose to not dress formally?

Why are you alluding to lowest common denominator  and what do you mean by that? 
I am genuinely curious. Does it impact your experience in a negative manner if others are wearing a jacket and dress pants and no tie?

 

No logic flaws, apart from that straw man argument, since I never suggested "people are choosing SS (or Cunard) only for the dress code".  Rarely does anyone choose a cruise line for a single reason.  I only note that it doesn't seem to he dissuading people from booking Cunard and SS, and provides a travel venue for those who aren't in a hurry to give up some old preferences. 

 

And who knows ... like wide and skinny and no ties at all, things often go in cycles.  My grandson has no complaints with wearing a tie, and for nicer venues, does so as a matter of preference.  Sometimes I think much of the "refuse to wear a tie" group are just rebelling against having been obligated to do so somewhere during their lives, especially when it wouldn't have been part of their lifestyle apart from work.  My grandson, by contrast, would be an example of someone who is of an age where it's not been a daily obligation, so he is free to enjoy the experience instead, even on vacation when he feels it to be appropriate.

 

As to the old "What does it matter if..." argument:  Whatever standard is set, there will be a segment of the cruising public who will try to slide under it by at least a step - if not more - if allowed.  The lower the line sets the bar, the lower those steps below become.  We've seen the trend on our 'old' line, and weren't surprised by the results.  It's a fact of human nature which we see playing out more and more these days over far more important things than cruises and dress codes. 

 

Lowest common denominator refers only to the prospect of deferring to whatever the current trends by most other lines, creating a homogenous industry where there's no differentiation left in this regard.  SS differentiates itself on other ways from its sister line (X) in ways we think we will also appreciate and that change the tenor of the experience significantly, so why not this one as well?  If SS was just another Regent or Seaborn, we might have taken our business there instead.  As it is, RCG managed to keep us 'in the family' by providing something different.  We're in no hurry to see that change.  If this had really been a major consideration for others, and not just a vocal minority, SS wouldn't be filling ships and folks would be on one if the other 'upscale' lines.

[Gourmet Gal]

6 minutes ago, canderson said:

 

 

As to the old "What does it matter if..." argument:  Whatever standard is set, there will be a segment of the cruising public who will try to slide under it by at least a step - if not more - if allowed. 

 

And there will be a segment who live in the past and resist change.  Times are changing and SS has read the tealeaves and realize that it isn’t great marketing for the so-called “differentiator” (high-brow dress code) to be dependent upon and a burden to passengers.  

[ak1004]

21 minutes ago, canderson said:

 

As to the old "What does it matter if..." argument:  Whatever standard is set, there will be a segment of the cruising public who will try to slide under it by at least a step - if not more - if allowed.  The lower the line sets the bar, the lower those steps below become. 

 

 

As a regular cruiser on Oceania, I don't find this to be true. There are always exceptions (I have seen a guy in Venetian lounge in shorts on a formal night), but overall people dress very respectfully even if the dress code is casual. 

[canderson]

1 minute ago, Gourmet Gal said:

And there will be a segment who live in the past and resist change.  Times are changing and SS has read the tealeaves and realize that it isn’t great marketing for the so-called “differentiator” (high-brow dress code) to be dependent upon and a burden to passengers.  

If you'd prefer to cruise with people living in 'the present', whose 'present' do you have in mind?  Ours is apparently different than yours.  Demean it by calling it "high-brow" if you like, but we aren't talking about dressing in a manner that would be considered such by our friends,  just appropriate for a variety of venues and occasions. 

 

Again, we're not seeing SS bookings faltering, even at significantly elevated prices well into the next year.  Our first itinerary with SS this Fall runs $10K more in 2024.  Whatever they've been seeing in the "tea leaves" and have been doing seems to have been working for them.

 

And I think we can agree that there's nothing a cruise line could ask that wouldn't be considered a burden by somebody.  Again, human nature. 

 

[canderson]

39 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

As a regular cruiser on Oceania, I don't find this to be true. There are always exceptions (I have seen a guy in Venetian lounge in shorts on a formal night), but overall people dress very respectfully even if the dress code is casual. 

Glad to hear it's still working well there.  After sailing with X since the pre-RCG days, we've seen a lot more of the slip over the years. 

 

The occasional standout cruise had kept us with them.  The restart cruises we took B2B out of Tampa for Connie provided the most attentive and intuitive service we've ever experienced.  But they aren't all going to be that way to make up for those other things that have slipped over time, so we felt it was time to move on.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by canderson
typoz

[Gourmet Gal]

58 minutes ago, canderson said:

If you'd prefer to cruise with people living in 'the present', whose 'present' do you have in mind?  Ours is apparently different than yours.  Demean it by calling it "high-brow" if you like, but we aren't talking about dressing in a manner that would be considered such by our friends,  just appropriate for a variety of venues and occasions. 

 

Again, we're not seeing SS bookings faltering, even at significantly elevated prices well into the next year.  Our first itinerary with SS this Fall runs $10K more in 2024.  Whatever they've been seeing in the "tea leaves" and have been doing seems to have been working for them.

 

And I think we can agree that there's nothing a cruise line could ask that wouldn't be considered a burden by somebody.  Again, human nature. 

 

Sounds like SS is changing the definition of appropriate attire on at least 2 ships.  So don’t worry, you’ll still be appropriate.

[difranco]

It would be interesting to see how many diners on formal night in the MDR refuse to sanitise their hands at the restaurant entrance. The split between those wearing formal attire and those wearing informal/casual would make interesting reading. After all, I would hope sanitising hands would be a higher priority than tie check by the Maitre’d. 

[Sweetpea711423]

19 hours ago, canderson said:

Largely because that's what they signed up for when booking.  It's part of what SS is selling, and if that's the crowd they want to attract from other lines who are dismayed by ever more lax dress standards elsewhere, it seems inappropriate to make a point of bucking their marketing concept as some occasionally do.

 

Cruise lines all sell 'vacations', but some sell very different 'experiences'.  Part.of the SS 'experience' remains a certain level of dress on formal nights in most venues.  Nobody is forced to 'dress up' since they have choices about what kind of vacation they book.

 

I absolutely agree with this post.  

 

Let me start by saying that I am one of those who enjoy dressing up.  To me it’s part of the fun of a cruise, and what makes it different from everyday life.  I’ve been sailing Silversea for many years, and early on I also sailed on Regent.  When Regent changed to “casual dress” for evenings (as well as including excursions), I no longer sailed them.  The only other line I regularly sailed was Cunard in Queen’s Grill on Queen Mary 2 for transatlantic crossings (even more “formal” than Silversea was).  

 

Silversea has already modified its evening dress code towards more “casual” in a way that I wasn’t that happy about, but at least it still had “Informal” between Casual and Formal.  While not optimal for me, it was OK during the 4 Silversea cruises I took over the past year.  Now the Informal seems to be disappearing.  With Silversea now also including excursions (which I would prefer it not do), there is no longer a reason for me to choose Silversea over Regent – I will look to itinerary and price, since I think that the Regent product is likely to be pretty comparable.

 

I should also add that my husband and I are booked (and paid in full) on the Nova cruise over Christmas and New Year’s.  Since that cruise was booked and paid for, Silversea has apparently changed the dress code on that ship in a way that I am unhappy with.  I really don’t think that’s right.  When it announces this kind of change it should be in advance of the availability of booking for the relevant ship/cruises.  An important motivator for me booking this cruise was the dress code.  I’m not saying that I would necessarily have decided not to book the cruise, but it certainly would have given me pause and I would have considered other options for the holiday period.

 

 

 

[Gourmet Gal]

2 minutes ago, Sweetpea711423 said:

 

I absolutely agree with this post.  

 

Let me start by saying that I am one of those who enjoy dressing up.  To me it’s part of the fun of a cruise, and what makes it different from everyday life.  I’ve been sailing Silversea for many years, and early on I also sailed on Regent.  When Regent changed to “casual dress” for evenings (as well as including excursions), I no longer sailed them.  The only other line I regularly sailed was Cunard in Queen’s Grill on Queen Mary 2 for transatlantic crossings (even more “formal” than Silversea was).  

 

Silversea has already modified its evening dress code towards more “casual” in a way that I wasn’t that happy about, but at least it still had “Informal” between Casual and Formal.  While not optimal for me, it was OK during the 4 Silversea cruises I took over the past year.  Now the Informal seems to be disappearing.  With Silversea now also including excursions (which I would prefer it not do), there is no longer a reason for me to choose Silversea over Regent – I will look to itinerary and price, since I think that the Regent product is likely to be pretty comparable.

 

I should also add that my husband and I are booked (and paid in full) on the Nova cruise over Christmas and New Year’s.  Since that cruise was booked and paid for, Silversea has apparently changed the dress code on that ship in a way that I am unhappy with.  I really don’t think that’s right.  When it announces this kind of change it should be in advance of the availability of booking for the relevant ship/cruises.  An important motivator for me booking this cruise was the dress code.  I’m not saying that I would necessarily have decided not to book the cruise, but it certainly would have given me pause and I would have considered other options for the holiday period.

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Sweetpea711423 said:

 

I absolutely agree with this post.  

 

Let me start by saying that I am one of those who enjoy dressing up.  To me it’s part of the fun of a cruise, and what makes it different from everyday life.  I’ve been sailing Silversea for many years, and early on I also sailed on Regent.  When Regent changed to “casual dress” for evenings (as well as including excursions), I no longer sailed them.  The only other line I regularly sailed was Cunard in Queen’s Grill on Queen Mary 2 for transatlantic crossings (even more “formal” than Silversea was).  

 

Silversea has already modified its evening dress code towards more “casual” in a way that I wasn’t that happy about, but at least it still had “Informal” between Casual and Formal.  While not optimal for me, it was OK during the 4 Silversea cruises I took over the past year.  Now the Informal seems to be disappearing.  With Silversea now also including excursions (which I would prefer it not do), there is no longer a reason for me to choose Silversea over Regent – I will look to itinerary and price, since I think that the Regent product is likely to be pretty comparable.

 

I should also add that my husband and I are booked (and paid in full) on the Nova cruise over Christmas and New Year’s.  Since that cruise was booked and paid for, Silversea has apparently changed the dress code on that ship in a way that I am unhappy with.  I really don’t think that’s right.  When it announces this kind of change it should be in advance of the availability of booking for the relevant ship/cruises.  An important motivator for me booking this cruise was the dress code.  I’m not saying that I would necessarily have decided not to book the cruise, but it certainly would have given me pause and I would have considered other options for the holiday period.

 

 

 

I’m not understanding why you are unhappy with the revision.  You can still dress to the max as there is no rule against that.  
 

Anyway, now it seems the tables have turned.  Those who preferred a more relaxed attire were told by the old guard to just choose another line.  Looks like you’re doing the same now that the suggested attire is no longer strictly formal.  I guess Cunard will reap the benefits of tux and gown-clad passengers fleeing from the down-market SS…there’s no where else to go.

[canderson]

2 minutes ago, Gourmet Gal said:

 

I’m not understanding why you are unhappy with the revision.  You can still dress to the max as there is no rule against that. 

Same argument you presented to me.  Will respond this time.

 

I could show up at a truck stop diner and bring my own linens and silver, but it would be hard for me to ignore that all of the other tables were still bare Formica with mismatched flatware.  Evidently that's much easier to do for some?  While some argue that they pay no attention things outside of their own table, many do take note of a world outside of their immediate 'bubble'.

 

What I believe @Sweetpea711423 is doing her best to express is that, for her, attire is one of many factors that impact the overall ambience of dining.  When we dress for dinner, we do so understanding that we are a contributing factor to others' perception of that ambience, and try to make a point of dressing in a manner appropriate to the venue out of respect for the house and other diners. 

 

She notes "Let me start by saying that I am one of those who enjoy dressing up.  To me it’s part of the fun of a cruise, and what makes it different from everyday life."  For some of us, it may be more a part of everyday life (and therefore in no way burdensome as it seems to be for some here) and while our motivations may be somewhat different, hers is entirely legitimate, and I can certainly appreciate what @Sweetpea711423 is trying to convey in her post.