How are you feeling about the cuts the cruise lines are making to "recover" covid loss of income?

[mjkacmom]

17 hours ago, Vagabondx77 said:

NCL reduced its housekeeping services from 2 to 1 for non-Haven travelers. I feel really bummed about spending all this time being loyal to them so I would become a Platinum member and soon Sapphire just to have services cut back. I wish it was at least an option for those of us that like to refresh after we come back from tours, and then come back to a turned bed after dinner. They first took the animal towels, and now they are taking away the turndown service. Really disappointing. 

Carnival and Royal did the same.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, FiremedicMike151 said:

I apologize, I misused per person per day, it is per day pricing.  $10,600 for a cruise for my wife and I, which is $1200 per day, which is astronomical, especially compared to last years prices and comparing to current land based all-inclusive prices.

 

 

You might consider that we recently cruised on Seabourn for less than $500 per person day...which is completely all-inclusive (does not include shore excursions).  We have posted (multiple times) that we think the Celebrity Retreat Suites (even the lowest cost suites) are more expensive than many cruises on the true small ship luxury lines.  And, trust me, that Celebrity might be good, but it is no luxury line.

 

Hank

[gardenbug22]

19 hours ago, Shmoo here said:

Which cruise line?

NCL.. 

[gardenbug22]

34 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Carnival and Royal did the same.

As well as taking the turn down service and the towel animals going away... NCL has increased the  assigned number of rooms  a housekeeper has to clean per day. I believe I was told that they are responsible for 35 rooms per day.  You could tell that they were frazzled. there was no more  friendly chat with us as we traveled up the hall way to our rooms, and it was a courtesy "good morning Mamm "  if we encountered our room cleaner coming out of our room. Normally they "check in" to see if we are having a good time and make suggestions... I noticed staff overall was understandably pretty stressed out and it  showed in their interactions with us in the MDR, at the Desk in the Attrium and our room stewards.   

[mjkacmom]

52 minutes ago, gardenbug22 said:

As well as taking the turn down service and the towel animals going away... NCL has increased the  assigned number of rooms  a housekeeper has to clean per day. I believe I was told that they are responsible for 35 rooms per day.  You could tell that they were frazzled. there was no more  friendly chat with us as we traveled up the hall way to our rooms, and it was a courtesy "good morning Mamm "  if we encountered our room cleaner coming out of our room. Normally they "check in" to see if we are having a good time and make suggestions... I noticed staff overall was understandably pretty stressed out and it  showed in their interactions with us in the MDR, at the Desk in the Attrium and our room stewards.   

Yes, more cabins for the stewards on other lines too, same complaints on the boards.

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, gardenbug22 said:

As well as taking the turn down service and the towel animals going away... NCL has increased the  assigned number of rooms  a housekeeper has to clean per day. I believe I was told that they are responsible for 35 rooms per day.  You could tell that they were frazzled. there was no more  friendly chat with us as we traveled up the hall way to our rooms, and it was a courtesy "good morning Mamm "  if we encountered our room cleaner coming out of our room. Normally they "check in" to see if we are having a good time and make suggestions... I noticed staff overall was understandably pretty stressed out and it  showed in their interactions with us in the MDR, at the Desk in the Attrium and our room stewards.   

Yes, I noticed that on the NCL Prima. In a question and answer session with the officers, I asked how many rooms the stewards now had and was it more than pre-Covid. The officers in charge of the stewards, Josef, sort of talked around my question.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

You might consider that we recently cruised on Seabourn for less than $500 per person day...which is completely all-inclusive (does not include shore excursions).  We have posted (multiple times) that we think the Celebrity Retreat Suites (even the lowest cost suites) are more expensive than many cruises on the true small ship luxury lines.  And, trust me, that Celebrity might be good, but it is no luxury line.

 

Hank

We will soon be sailing Oceania (balcony) for just about $300 per person per day - uncrowded, superior food included, access to smaller ports not accessible by the Walmarts of the Seas.

 

We used to enjoy Celebrity and HAL, but they have followed NCL and Carnival downhill.  Bigger is very rarely better.

[gardenbug22]

22 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Have they REALLY raised fares all that much?  It sure does not look like it in promotional ads.

 

But there is NO DOUBT about their cutting services — which was ordained a few years before Covid hit when they ordered their new classes of mega-ships.  Are you aware of how long it takes to start filling cabins after a line decides to order a ship?

It's funny I wondered how much the mega ships that they keep pushing out had something to do with the cuts. Altho.. covid is a convient excuse.   We were docked next to the Prima in Bermuda and I spoke to one of the passengers asking how she liked the ship ... she said she was more envious of us with the smaller Pearl, that the Prima was not all that and a bag of chips. 

[ontheweb]

54 minutes ago, gardenbug22 said:

It's funny I wondered how much the mega ships that they keep pushing out had something to do with the cuts. Altho.. covid is a convient excuse.   We were docked next to the Prima in Bermuda and I spoke to one of the passengers asking how she liked the ship ... she said she was more envious of us with the smaller Pearl, that the Prima was not all that and a bag of chips. 

At least NCL is going in the opposite direction of most lines, as their newest ships the Prima class are smaller than their last ships the Epic and the Breakaway.

[njhorseman]

45 minutes ago, gardenbug22 said:

It's funny I wondered how much the mega ships that they keep pushing out had something to do with the cuts. Altho.. covid is a convient excuse.   We were docked next to the Prima in Bermuda and I spoke to one of the passengers asking how she liked the ship ... she said she was more envious of us with the smaller Pearl, that the Prima was not all that and a bag of chips. 

NCL's first mega ship, the Epic, was launched in 2009. Royal Caribbean launched Oasis of the Seas in late 2008. In the years between those initial mega ship launches and the onset of the pandemic over a decade later in 2020 many other mega ships came into service and the cruise lines were profitable. Any service cuts were relatively small.

 

Along comes COVID, the cruise lines nearly went bankrupt, and when cruising resumed the service cuts were intensified and very obvious as one part, along with increasing fares and other revenue sources,  of the cruise lines' strategy to generate enough profit to start repaying their restructured high interest debt load.  

 

Does that summary help you to understand the connection between the pandemic and cruise line service cuts and higher fares ? 

[ontheweb]

Part of the cause

3 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

NCL's first mega ship, the Epic, was launched in 2009. Royal Caribbean launched Oasis of the Seas in late 2008. In the years between those initial mega ship launches and the onset of the pandemic over a decade later in 2020 many other mega ships came into service and the cruise lines were profitable. Any service cuts were relatively small.

 

Along comes COVID, the cruise lines nearly went bankrupt, and when cruising resumed the service cuts were intensified and very obvious as one part, along with increasing fares and other revenue sources,  of the cruise lines' strategy to generate enough profit to start repaying their restructured high interest debt load.  

 

Does that summary help you to understand the connection between the pandemic and cruise line service cuts and higher fares ? 

Part of the cause of higher fares has to be pent up demand. And that of course can be at least partially blamed on Covid as the cruise industry came to a holt.

[njhorseman]

8 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Part of the cause

Part of the cause of higher fares has to be pent up demand. And that of course can be at least partially blamed on Covid as the cruise industry came to a holt.

 To some extent, but the poster to whom I was replying was talking about service cuts, not pricing, being tied to the existence of mega ships rather than the pandemic. I added the pricing mention just to give a little more complete picture of the environment rather than limiting the explanation to just one factor.

And let's face it...even if there wasn't pent up demand the cruise lines still needed to raise prices in order to pay their debt service. Service cuts alone couldn't boost the bottom line enough to do that. Pent up demand just lets them increase prices even more.

Edited August 29, 2023 by njhorseman

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

We will soon be sailing Oceania (balcony) for just about $300 per person per day - uncrowded, superior food included, access to smaller ports not accessible by the Walmarts of the Seas.

 

We used to enjoy Celebrity and HAL, but they have followed NCL and Carnival downhill.  Bigger is very rarely better.

We also have an "O" cruise (in March) and looking forward to trying out that line.  Silverseas is also on the 2024 agenda.  We stopped cruising on Celebrity a few years ago when we thought that "LLP" had an agenda to boost prices and cut quality.  For now, when we do go on the mass market lines, it is either Princess or MSC (only in their Yacht Club).  As to HAL (a line that now gives away cabins to just about anyone who gambles), DW simply says, "No more HAL."  That is the result of our recent 6 week cruise on the Westerdam.  Even though we have over 500 days on HAL, they will need to make some major improvements before we would consider booking.

 

Hank

[ldubs]

On 8/28/2023 at 4:28 PM, Joebucks said:

 

I continue to do both cruises and land vacations. Let me tell you that the grass isn't greener on the other side. Many hotels/resorts have reduced housekeeping (let alone expecting it twice a day), raised costs, closed their executive lounges, and their food is all over the place in price, quality, selection, etc. 

 

Honestly, cruising is still a great value. If you want to find things that were different than they were before COVID, you'll succeed. You can do the same for a lot of enjoyable experiences. It's not the best way to go through life.

 

We are similar about mixing land and cruise vacations.  Our next two international trips are strictly land, then we will have a combo land and cruise trip.  

 

I totally agree that cruising is still a great value. The average cost per day often compares favorably to what we are all in for a land trip.  

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

We will soon be sailing Oceania (balcony) for just about $300 per person per day - uncrowded, superior food included, access to smaller ports not accessible by the Walmarts of the Seas.

 

We used to enjoy Celebrity and HAL, but they have followed NCL and Carnival downhill.  Bigger is very rarely better.

 

I'm curious about which ports are those?   I want to know what I might be missing.   

[navybankerteacher]

38 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm curious about which ports are those?   I want to know what I might be missing.   

On a cruise to Bermuda a small ship will stop at St. George at the east end, and/or downtown Hamilton - rather than at that somewhat remote tourist trap Dockyard.  Or in the Caribbean at St. Barth’s - which wants nothing to do with the huge ships with their thousands of budget-minded passengers -  There are a number of other ports which either cannot, or do not want to, accommodate large ships and their accompanying mobs - such as Bora Bora in the Pacific and Nantucket off the coast of Massachusetts.

Edited August 30, 2023 by navybankerteacher

[65Mommy]

How in the world are people affording these prices??????

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, 65Mommy said:

How in the world are people affording these prices??????

You don’t always get what you pay for - but you certainly will not get something you are not willing to pay for.

[ldubs]

5 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

On a cruise to Bermuda a small ship will stop at St. George at the east end, and/or downtown Hamilton - rather than at that somewhat remote tourist trap Dockyard.  Or in the Caribbean at St. Barth’s - which wants nothing to do with the huge ships with their thousands of budget-minded passengers -  There are a number of other ports which either cannot, or do not want to, accommodate large ships and their accompanying mobs.

 

Thanks. I have not traveled much in those areas so it is hard to relate.  We did do a 7 day Caribbean cruise out of Miami earlier this year on a huge RCI ship.  The ports weren't a high priority.  I can see a big plus from being able to dock right next to the city center as opposed to a remote terminal.     

[Cruisercl]

14 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

We will soon be sailing Oceania (balcony) for just about $300 per person per day - uncrowded, superior food included, access to smaller ports not accessible by the Walmarts of the Seas.

 

We used to enjoy Celebrity and HAL, but they have followed NCL and Carnival downhill.  Bigger is very rarely better.

Different products, you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Cruisercl

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 To some extent, but the poster to whom I was replying was talking about service cuts, not pricing, being tied to the existence of mega ships rather than the pandemic. I added the pricing mention just to give a little more complete picture of the environment rather than limiting the explanation to just one factor.

And let's face it...even if there wasn't pent up demand the cruise lines still needed to raise prices in order to pay their debt service. Service cuts alone couldn't boost the bottom line enough to do that. Pent up demand just lets them increase prices even more.

The law of supply and demand always rules. If there was not the pent up demand, they could raise the price all they wanted, but it would not work. There would not be enough demand at those price points. 

 

One strategy that they seem to be using is to make the initial price seem to be low, and then charge for all sorts of things onboard.

[Joebucks]

10 hours ago, 65Mommy said:

How in the world are people affording these prices??????

 

There's a lot of people out there that make a lot of money. Regardless of who goes on the internet and says they can't afford to make ends meet, there's a lot of wealth out there. Especially in some "high cost of living areas" some people make higher salaries to compensate for higher costs. However, cruising does not increase in price proportionately for them. 

 

For me, even as I make more money, I find it hard to spend $10k+ on a cruise. Just knowing what that can grow into and how much enjoyment I can get on multiple trips at a total far less. Perhaps as I get older, have a larger savings, and a desire for new experiences, I expect I will shift there a bit. 

 

22 hours ago, Aquahound said:

Post COVID, I have only sailed RCI......not because I prefer them so much over others, but because I tried a Quantum Class ship for the first time and loved it so much that I returned 3 more times.  My experience regarding entertainment was not what the op experienced on whatever line they sailed.  The entertainment was phenomenal, and I saw no cutbacks in that department whatsoever.  

 

And yes, prices are up but considering cruise prices haven't changed in 30 years, I don't find it to be that big of an issue.  

 

As I stated before. I enjoy my land trips. But it is crazy to think that they are all somehow superior to cruising now because I found something to dislike about cruising.

 

I actually just returned from a land trip and we had a great time! One of the most annoying parts of them is the time I waste to procure transportation, drive around (park/pay), plan what to do/where to go, buy tickets, etc. Land resorts can't compete in entertainment like cruises do (Vegas can I suppose, but we aren't always in Vegas). Resorts surely haven't grown in entertainment in the last decade or so like cruise ships have. I get that some people are mad that there might be other people on the ship or a large boat ruins their vacation. However, I agree with you. The options these larger boats have really adds a great depth of variety.

 

It's just so nice to be able to walk to restaurants, pools, entertainment, shopping, bars, your room, etc. when you want. You also might go to a town and there may or may not be a show going on that week. A cruise has balanced entertainment to often give multiple options per night. Sure everyone has their opinion on what is good and what isn't. However, I'll take the options anyday!

[Cruise till you drop]

I completely understand that cruise lines suffered financially during the Covid lockdown.  It’s abundantly clear that in order to get out of debt, things need to change.

However, for me there are 2 things

 

1) I wish cruise lines would be a little bit more transparent about these moves instead of just cramming it down our throats while bookings are high

 

2) I don’t think this is a forever problem as they will get out of debt at some point.  However I worry that some of the changes will be forever and only serve the cruise line profitability long after debts are paid

[Hlitner]

21 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm curious about which ports are those?   I want to know what I might be missing.   

What ports are not accessible (or welcoming) to big ships?  There are probably hundreds around the world.  Imagine cruising all the way up the Garonne River and docking in downtown Bordeaux.  (we did that on an 800 passenger ship....but mega ships need not apply).   Or picture a monster ship trying to tender thousands into the port of Nanortalik where there is only room for a single tender at the pier.  We were once in Nanortalik on the Caribbean Princess when more than 1000 (out of about 3600)  passengers never even got to shore (after waiting over 4 hours for their tender number to be called).  On our recent visit (about 2 weeks ago) on the 450 passenger Seabourn Quest there were no tender tickets or lines.  One just walked down to the tender area (on the ship) and stepped onto the next tender.  And than you have ports like Key West, Bar Harbor, St Barts, etc. that have made it clear they do not want large ships (these places consider 1200 passengers too many).

 

What are you missing when only cruising larger ships?  How about a ship that never has a queue...for anything!  Want to go to a show?   You simply walk in at the last minute.  Want to take a tender?  Simply go to the tender area.  Want to eat lunch in the Lido at prime time?  The hostess will quickly seat you or you can simply grab a table on your own.  Want to go to the piano bar?  There are always seats.  Want to go to the MDR for dinner?  Just walk in any time (during open hours) and there are plenty of tables.  No reservations, no waits.

 

Also consider itineraries.  We are booking a small ship cruise in the Caribbean that includes ports like Isles des Saintes and Terre de Haut (both on Guadaloupe), Little Bay, Montserrat, San Juan del Sur, etc.  Folks who only cruise on mega ships have likely never heard of these ports.  Imagine going to a Caribbean port where there are only a few hundred cruisers vs going to a port like St Thomas where there can be over 20,000 (on a single day).

 

Hank

[Waltershipman]

13 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

What ports are not accessible (or welcoming) to big ships?  There are probably hundreds around the world.  Imagine cruising all the way up the Garonne River and docking in downtown Bordeaux.  (we did that on an 800 passenger ship....but mega ships need not apply).   Or picture a monster ship trying to tender thousands into the port of Nanortalik where there is only room for a single tender at the pier.  We were once in Nanortalik on the Caribbean Princess when more than 1000 (out of about 3600)  passengers never even got to shore (after waiting over 4 hours for their tender number to be called).  On our recent visit (about 2 weeks ago) on the 450 passenger Seabourn Quest there were no tender tickets or lines.  One just walked down to the tender area (on the ship) and stepped onto the next tender.  And than you have ports like Key West, Bar Harbor, St Barts, etc. that have made it clear they do not want large ships (these places consider 1200 passengers too many).

 

What are you missing when only cruising larger ships?  How about a ship that never has a queue...for anything!  Want to go to a show?   You simply walk in at the last minute.  Want to take a tender?  Simply go to the tender area.  Want to eat lunch in the Lido at prime time?  The hostess will quickly seat you or you can simply grab a table on your own.  Want to go to the piano bar?  There are always seats.  Want to go to the MDR for dinner?  Just walk in any time (during open hours) and there are plenty of tables.  No reservations, no waits.

 

Also consider itineraries.  We are booking a small ship cruise in the Caribbean that includes ports like Isles des Saintes and Terre de Haut (both on Guadaloupe), Little Bay, Montserrat, San Juan del Sur, etc.  Folks who only cruise on mega ships have likely never heard of these ports.  Imagine going to a Caribbean port where there are only a few hundred cruisers vs going to a port like St Thomas where there can be over 20,000 (on a single day).

 

Hank

Love your post look forward to sharing with you on our Quebec to New York journey

 

My best to you