Future booked cruises with All Included? Tips no longer included.

[mickey89]

We all realise that inflation has been rampant across the world and accept that cruise fares have to increase like everything else but why the subterfuge. Celebrity just be HONEST and don't try to conceal the inevitable price rises, you just leave a Bad Taste rather than getting people's understanding.

[Harrisonkid]

I just booked a future cruise late 2024. I priced it cruise only as well as All included( wifi, standard Drink pkg and Tips) it was $202 cheaper then booking cruise only and buying the same things individually . As long as they honor what the sold me (after Oct 2023) I won't have a problem.  If they decide to elimate the Tips Included (that they sold me) then I'll have issues . So, I'll just wait and see what October brings . I do enjoy cruises and I hate covid lock downs 😊

[gordylad]

what happens if people decide to move a cruise which has AI...assume you lose the tips part and new non AI pricing kicks in.....

[terrydtx]

2 minutes ago, gordylad said:

what happens if people decide to move a cruise which has AI...assume you lose the tips part and new non AI pricing kicks in.....

Moving a cruise to another is considered a new booking and if done after Oct 4th you would only be able to get the current AI program at that time less the grats.

[Jeremiah1212]

15 minutes ago, mickey89 said:

We all realise that inflation has been rampant across the world and accept that cruise fares have to increase like everything else but why the subterfuge. Celebrity just be HONEST and don't try to conceal the inevitable price rises, you just leave a Bad Taste rather than getting people's understanding.

After yesterdays call it’s pretty obvious they know they need to do better and get in front of changes. Will they do it moving forward? We’ll see. But from any line I would have absolutely no expectation that they be forthcoming and announce price increases on anything.

 

Look how Princess has handled their changes. They send a response to the complainer that says we know you’re mad but we can do whatever we want. I’m not paraphrasing that much either. Too bad so sad. Move to Carnival for cheap cruises. 

[mac_tlc]

2 hours ago, Miaminice said:

I noticed it, mentioned it and noted that it is a bigger $$ item than the grats. 
 

On a 7 day cruise, suite grats are $322, OBC has been $600. 
 

I plan on tracking four or five random cruises for pricing before and after 10/4. I’ll look at balcony, Aqua and suite prices. 
 

The engineer in me needs data and a spreadsheet in order to come to a conclusion. 😂😂😂

 

mac_tlc

Edited August 30, 2023 by mac_tlc

[tfred]

30 minutes ago, mickey89 said:

We all realise that inflation has been rampant across the world and accept that cruise fares have to increase like everything else but why the subterfuge. Celebrity just be HONEST and don't try to conceal the inevitable price rises, you just leave a Bad Taste rather than getting people's understanding.

there are many potential pax that have never cruised before so they dont really know what prices were last year or prior.  To them, these are the prices. X (or anyone else) is not going to issue a press release about higher prices 

[weregoingcruising]

33 minutes ago, mickey89 said:

We all realise that inflation has been rampant across the world and accept that cruise fares have to increase like everything else but why the subterfuge. Celebrity just be HONEST and don't try to conceal the inevitable price rises, you just leave a Bad Taste rather than getting people's understanding.

 

[terrydtx]

35 minutes ago, mac_tlc said:

I noticed it, mentioned it and noted that it is a bigger $$ item than the grats. 
 

On a 7 day cruise, suite grats are $322, OBC has been $600. 
 

I plan on tracking four or five random cruises for pricing before and after 10/4. I’ll look at balcony, Aqua and suite prices. 
 

The engineer in me needs data and a spreadsheet in order to come to a conclusion. 😂😂😂

 

mac_tlc

It will be interesting to see if the price of a Sky Suite drops by $922 or $461pp for a 7 night cruise, anything less is a price increase.

[Jeremiah1212]

This news is all over the social media so here is a brief rundown of all the things that changed or were addressed by Celebrity this week. Not trying to start a debate as this isn't rumor or speculation. It came straight from the source. 

 

All Included

*Bookings created after 10/3 will not have gratuities included regardless if you book Cruise Only or All Included 

*Significantly more people booking Cruise Only in the past year (AI bookings were ~90% of the volume when initially introduced)

*Aqua Class will now offer a Cruise Only rate

*Gratuities can still be prepaid at the time of booking or anytime there after 

*Prices should be 'reflective' of gratuities being removed from the inclusions 

*Singles will no longer have the double charge for All Included 

*Quoting a flat $20 pp/pd (gratuity included) price to upgrade from Classic to Premium beverage package 

***Reason given - Drinks and WiFi are the two things people want most. (I don't agree with the delivery here - just passing along what was shared) Also provides some flexibility to use gratuities as a tool in future sales. 

 

Sky Suite Butlers

*Team concept is in place lead by a Head Butler 

*Head Butler will determine where/who needs extra attention (i.e. they will try to address who heavily uses their butler and who contacts them once in a cruise

*No one was terminated but positions were shuffled around including to other brands in the company 

***Reason given - many Sky Suites were requesting service at the same time which created a bottleneck for anyone getting service from a butler 

 

Cookies 

*Test pilot at the gelato bar. 

*Apparently sold hundreds over two cruises 

*Did not replace free cookies/pastries anywhere else onboard 

*Discontinued and won't be back 

***Reason given -They needed to implement a fee to temper demand since it took some time to heat the cookies 

 

Vaping 

*Tested, feedback received and discontinued. 

*Vapers will have to sneak their vapes in their cabins like they do today or head to a smoking area 

 

Removal of Retreat OBC

***Reason Given - None. Big miss here. This should have been directly addressed as it is (was) an crucial tool in justifying the high suite prices

 

Removal of Aqua and Concierge perks and canapes

*According to Celebrity nothing has been removed

*There should be a card in AQ and CC cabins to indicate if and how often you want these provided ranging from never to every day

*(Can someone confirm this card exists? I have not seen it.)

***Reason Given - most of these items go to waste (I cannot disagree with this. Retooling what is offered would solve a lot Please don't give me any more tins of pate!)

 

Perfect Day at Coco Cay

*Giving a few ships opportunity to visit Coco Cay based on guest feedback 

*Continue to welcome families as indicated by always having kid and teen programs 

*Family travel on Celebrity is different 

***Reason Given - Trying to make some apparent distinction that people with kids on Celebrity travel with their kids not for their kids. If you are traveling for your kids, you travel on lines packed with the 'kid stuff'. If you travel with your kids you bring them/drag them along with you. Not the first time they have mentioned this but I'm not sure I agree with this approach. 

 

MDR upcharge items

*These things will continue to be on the menu and evolve over time.

***Reason Given - these are test items to expand what is offered similar to entrees in some of the Specialty restaurants.

 

Groups

*Group rates will eventually not include gratuities 

*Nothing mentioned on the refundability of group rates 

*The previous FAQ showing group rates would only be Cruise Only is gone. Groups will be All Included. I'm still concerned that it even made it to a draft FAQ. 

*Very little shared in general. I'm hesitant to share much more since this really isn't meant for general customers and there is a ton of misinformation posted about how this program works. 

 

Ultimately there were some hits and misses. Prices will go up as demand goes up. That goes for any line. New to cruise and new to brand, especially on 7 night Caribbean cruises is very very high. I think this is where a lot of the removal of grats is stemming from. This segment frequently doesn't know better than to consider this cost element when they are booking. I suspect Celebrity has learned they need to get out in front of some of these changes (i.e. Butler Team) but a lot of this test type stuff never has and may never be communicated. 

 

I do think the All Included terminology needs to go away and eventually shift back to something more along the lines of the Go 1/2/3 or Big Better Best program that gave people easy to understand prepackaged incremental choices. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Jeremiah1212

[RichYak]

Thanks for the summary. It's very helpful to see it all in one place.

[jelayne]

5 minutes ago, RichYak said:

Thanks for the summary. It's very helpful to see it all in one place.

^^^^^^This^^^^^

[Lena11033]

Thanks for putting this all together.

23 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

*There should be a card in AQ and CC cabins to indicate if and how often you want these provided ranging from never to every day

*(Can someone confirm this card exists? I have not seen it.)

 

When I did AQ a couple of months ago, the canape's were already gone but I never had a card nor did anyone mention it was an option to get anything

 

[OysterD]

18 minutes ago, RichYak said:

Thanks for the summary. It's very helpful to see it all in one place.

Exactly, and without the hysteria, speculation and incorrect assumptions. Just the facts. Which in reality don't amount to many changes. 

[Mark_T]

1 minute ago, Lena11033 said:

Thanks for putting this all together.

 

When I did AQ a couple of months ago, the canape's were already gone but I never had a card nor did anyone mention it was an option to get anything

 

That matches with the list of amenities changing back in December I think, Aqua lost the canapés, and Concierge lost the expanded room service breakfast options but kept the canapés, right before they added the room service delivery charges. 

[Oceangoer2]

I just have a concern re gratuities being removed from AI.  With gratuities included we knew that servers, attendants, etc were receiving at least some grats and we would add to that for those we felt overextended themselves for us. 

• Now, will some cruisers skip on grats? 
• Will the galley personnel etc receive grats in some fashion?
• Will staff now question if/when they'll receive their grats?
• Will that non-inclusion affect their service or improve it?
• Will the cost of our cruise stay the same and the grats are still 'in there' hidden from us but still going to their staff? 
• I'm sure X will have all the answers to these questions but will they share that with us?

[markeb]

Some interesting assumptions here. We'll see. We have two cruises booked, and were planning on taking a cruising pause to do other things anyway. We're not taking our toys and going home because we weren't planning any future cruises anyway. And when we do, it's time to be much broader in our search.

 

I'm curious about the actual changes in AI pricing. If you can still add gratuities at the time of booking, that could be something of a wash, although I honestly don't understand why they wouldn't hold off on gratuities until final payment to more accurately match pricing with costs. That was the one advantage I saw to them of dropping gratuities from AI, and they're giving that advantage away...

 

The Retreat OBC "COULD" work out if they ultimately adjust pricing to reflect the lack of OBC (don't see that happening up front). The Retreat OBC has at times been high enough to offset much of the fare difference between Aqua and a SS (not all by any means, but to make it a reasonable question). That's probably not great business, and if their analytics say they can sell the Retreat without the OBC and those appear to be their most profitable cabins, they'd be crazy not to do it.

 

Thanks for the summary!

[Jeremiah1212]

Just now, Oceangoer2 said:

I just have a concern re gratuities being removed from AI.  With gratuities included we knew that servers, attendants, etc were receiving at least some grats and we would add to that for those we felt overextended themselves for us. 

• Now, will some cruisers skip on grats? 
• Will the galley personnel etc receive grats in some fashion?
• Will staff now question if/when they'll receive their grats?
• Will that non-inclusion affect their service or improve it?

 

There has been rampant speculation and debate about gratuities for years and years and that will not change. People claim they have insider info, heard from their waiter, etc. etc. etc. I do not believe this will result in any more people removing gratuities than they did in the past. Here is what Celebrity says: 

 

FOR ALL BOOKINGS: Gratuities for stateroom and restaurant services are shared by dining, bar and culinary services staff, stateroom attendants, and other hotel services teams. An 18% gratuity will be added to all spa and salon purchases. A 20% gratuity will be added to all specialty dining and room service onboard.  

 

Just now, Oceangoer2 said:

• Will the cost of our cruise stay the same and the grats are still 'in there' hidden from us but still going to their staff? 
• I'm sure X will have all the answers to these questions but will they share that with us?

 

As I noted above, Celebrity says the pricing will be 'reflective' of the changes. How to quantify that since prices fluctuate all the time will be difficult but that is what they said. 

 

 

[markeb]

5 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

I just have a concern re gratuities being removed from AI.  With gratuities included we knew that servers, attendants, etc were receiving at least some grats and we would add to that for those we felt overextended themselves for us. 

 

• Now, will some cruisers skip on grats? Yes. Just like now for non AI bookings. But probably a lot fewer than people think.
• Will the galley personnel etc receive grats in some fashion? Do they now? Sharing with back of house is a very recent change in the US on land.
• Will staff now question if/when they'll receive their grats? Maybe
• Will that non-inclusion affect their service or improve it? 
• Will the cost of our cruise stay the same and the grats are still 'in there' hidden from us but still going to their staff? 
• I'm sure X will have all the answers to these questions but will they share that with us? Unlikely.

[RichYak]

20 minutes ago, OysterD said:

Which in reality don't amount to many changes. 

I feel like we're reading two different threads. Without raising published cruise fares a penny, in reality a 7-night Retreat booking will increase by $125pn by removing the previously included gratuities and OBC. 

[Oceangoer2]

1 minute ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

There has been rampant speculation and debate about gratuities for years and years and that will not change. People claim they have insider info, heard from their waiter, etc. etc. etc. I do not believe this will result in any more people removing gratuities than they did in the past.

Since we've been on both ends of the many tipping processes over 30 years we're aware how rumours prevail.  But as to your comment quoted above....How will they 'remove' what isn't there?  You said grats will not be included in AI so that leaves it up to the cruiser to tip those they interact with, leaving out all those NOW included.  No doubt the answers will be forthcoming officially.

[markeb]

Just now, RichYak said:

I feel like we're reading two different threads. Without raising published cruise fares a penny, in reality a 7-night Retreat booking will increase by $125pn by removing the previously included gratuities and OBC. 

 

It could. But we don't have October 4 pricing yet. I suspect it will go up, but going up $125 pn is by no means certain.

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Since we've been on both ends of the many tipping processes over 30 years we're aware how rumours prevail.  But as to your comment quoted above....How will they 'remove' what isn't there?  You said grats will not be included in AI so that leaves it up to the cruiser to tip those they interact with, leaving out all those NOW included.  No doubt the answers will be forthcoming officially.

 

You'll still have the daily auto tip in place. The difference is it's not in the fare and could be removed. With AI it's part of the fare.

 

I frankly would prefer it be in the fare. 

[chocolabmom]

I'm confused about the upgrade price for the premium drink package.  Is that only effective if you book after 10-3?  Or can I upgrade on the website after 10-3 for flat $20 pp?

[Jeremiah1212]

18 minutes ago, markeb said:

Some interesting assumptions here. We'll see. We have two cruises booked, and were planning on taking a cruising pause to do other things anyway. We're not taking our toys and going home because we weren't planning any future cruises anyway. And when we do, it's time to be much broader in our search.

 

I'm curious about the actual changes in AI pricing. If you can still add gratuities at the time of booking, that could be something of a wash, although I honestly don't understand why they wouldn't hold off on gratuities until final payment to more accurately match pricing with costs. That was the one advantage I saw to them of dropping gratuities from AI, and they're giving that advantage away...

 

The Retreat OBC "COULD" work out if they ultimately adjust pricing to reflect the lack of OBC (don't see that happening up front). The Retreat OBC has at times been high enough to offset much of the fare difference between Aqua and a SS (not all by any means, but to make it a reasonable question). That's probably not great business, and if their analytics say they can sell the Retreat without the OBC and those appear to be their most profitable cabins, they'd be crazy not to do it.

 

Thanks for the summary!

 

My assumption is they are seeing a lot of people who do not realize the benefit or value in having the grats included in AI. Maybe it was poorly marketed, poorly communicated, etc. but especially that huge amount of new cruiser business we see doesn't think about the extra incremental cost. So chop it, use it as a tool for future sales and create more revenue from it. 

 

As far as the Retreat OBC. That one is tough. I have no reason to think prices will come down. Using 2024 numbers (totally imperfect...but it's the best I can do) with 58,911 suite reservations to fill in the year at $600 OBC per reservation, that's $35,346,000 on the table. 

 

10 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

Since we've been on both ends of the many tipping processes over 30 years we're aware how rumours prevail.  But as to your comment quoted above....How will they 'remove' what isn't there?  You said grats will not be included in AI so that leaves it up to the cruiser to tip those they interact with, leaving out all those NOW included.  No doubt the answers will be forthcoming officially.

 

Gratuities are still auto charged to your account daily if you didn't prepay. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Jeremiah1212