Future booked cruises with All Included? Tips no longer included.

[JDPCruisers]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

This news is all over the social media so here is a brief rundown of all the things that changed or were addressed by Celebrity this week. Not trying to start a debate as this isn't rumor or speculation. It came straight from the source. 

 

All Included

*Bookings created after 10/3 will not have gratuities included regardless if you book Cruise Only or All Included 

*Significantly more people booking Cruise Only in the past year (AI bookings were ~90% of the volume when initially introduced)

*Aqua Class will now offer a Cruise Only rate

*Gratuities can still be prepaid at the time of booking or anytime there after 

*Prices should be 'reflective' of gratuities being removed from the inclusions 

*Singles will no longer have the double charge for All Included 

*Quoting a flat $20 pp/pd (gratuity included) price to upgrade from Classic to Premium beverage package 

***Reason given - Drinks and WiFi are the two things people want most. (I don't agree with the delivery here - just passing along what was shared) Also provides some flexibility to use gratuities as a tool in future sales. 

 

Sky Suite Butlers

*Team concept is in place lead by a Head Butler 

*Head Butler will determine where/who needs extra attention (i.e. they will try to address who heavily uses their butler and who contacts them once in a cruise

*No one was terminated but positions were shuffled around including to other brands in the company 

***Reason given - many Sky Suites were requesting service at the same time which created a bottleneck for anyone getting service from a butler 

 

Cookies 

*Test pilot at the gelato bar. 

*Apparently sold hundreds over two cruises 

*Did not replace free cookies/pastries anywhere else onboard 

*Discontinued and won't be back 

***Reason given -They needed to implement a fee to temper demand since it took some time to heat the cookies 

 

Vaping 

*Tested, feedback received and discontinued. 

*Vapers will have to sneak their vapes in their cabins like they do today or head to a smoking area 

 

Removal of Retreat OBC

***Reason Given - None. Big miss here. This should have been directly addressed as it is (was) an crucial tool in justifying the high suite prices

 

Removal of Aqua and Concierge perks and canapes

*According to Celebrity nothing has been removed

*There should be a card in AQ and CC cabins to indicate if and how often you want these provided ranging from never to every day

*(Can someone confirm this card exists? I have not seen it.)

***Reason Given - most of these items go to waste (I cannot disagree with this. Retooling what is offered would solve a lot Please don't give me any more tins of pate!)

 

Perfect Day at Coco Cay

*Giving a few ships opportunity to visit Coco Cay based on guest feedback 

*Continue to welcome families as indicated by always having kid and teen programs 

*Family travel on Celebrity is different 

***Reason Given - Trying to make some apparent distinction that people with kids on Celebrity travel with their kids not for their kids. If you are traveling for your kids, you travel on lines packed with the 'kid stuff'. If you travel with your kids you bring them/drag them along with you. Not the first time they have mentioned this but I'm not sure I agree with this approach. 

 

MDR upcharge items

*These things will continue to be on the menu and evolve over time.

***Reason Given - these are test items to expand what is offered similar to entrees in some of the Specialty restaurants.

 

Groups

*Group rates will eventually not include gratuities 

*Nothing mentioned on the refundability of group rates 

*The previous FAQ showing group rates would only be Cruise Only is gone. Groups will be All Included. I'm still concerned that it even made it to a draft FAQ. 

*Very little shared in general. I'm hesitant to share much more since this really isn't meant for general customers and there is a ton of misinformation posted about how this program works. 

 

Ultimately there were some hits and misses. Prices will go up as demand goes up. That goes for any line. New to cruise and new to brand, especially on 7 night Caribbean cruises is very very high. I think this is where a lot of the removal of grats is stemming from. This segment frequently doesn't know better than to consider this cost element when they are booking. I suspect Celebrity has learned they need to get out in front of some of these changes (i.e. Butler Team) but a lot of this test type stuff never has and may never be communicated. 

 

I do think the All Included terminology needs to go away and eventually shift back to something more along the lines of the Go 1/2/3 or Big Better Best program that gave people easy to understand prepackaged incremental choices. 

As with others, thanks for the summary. One amenity that I am unclear about is if Retreat guest priority embarkation and disembarkation remain on currently booked cruises and future booked cruises? 

[Bejay219]

4 minutes ago, OysterD said:

Exactly, and without the hysteria, speculation and incorrect assumptions. Just the facts. Which in reality don't amount to many changes. 

For us, they do reflect major changes-

-As Zeniths, always sailing in suites, recently moved from Celebrity Suites to Sky Suites due to price and wanting to do more B2B2B's. As Zeniths, we already get Premium Drinks and premium Wifi, so we lost the Tips and OBC, that leaves the only perk we get is free laundry. Celebrity could have put a "Cruise Only" rate in for Zeniths in Suites, but they only added it for Aqua Class. 

-We book suites for the privacy and ease of having only 2 crew members in our suite, the Butler and Room Attendant.  When my husband fell, he was hurting for 4/5 days, he needed lots of ice, meals brought in and quiet.  Our Butler knew exactly what he needed, made sure everything was done quietly and efficiently, can't say a "Team" will. 

-The loss of bottled water in the Suite,  having to carry bottled water, soda and beer to our Suite is not our idea of relaxation. 

We obviously have loved Celebrity over the 21 years we have sailed with them.  We have seen things come and go. We go into each cruise knowing we will have a god time and anticipate that the food and service will be consistent.  My husband and I each spend close to 1 1/2 hours each on the survey at the end of each cruise (in May on B2B2B, that was around 9 hours of writing) We keep a list on our phone so we can  mention each person that has provided us with great service by name and and write a sentence about them. We write notes to the Hotel Director about outstanding service, we also, if we have a complaint, do it in a quiet manner to the appropriate person.

We give our feedback In an appropriate manner, we expect Celebrity to give us the same courtesy to communicate changes which effect us. 

 

 

 

[hcat]

2 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Gratuities being removed will allow them to temporarily add them back in for ‘free’ as a tactic for future sales and promotions. 

is this what is going to happen or what may happen?  It is really  messed up  as is but both our cruises are already booked..just cleaning up errors! 

 

Would not even think of booking anything  new with X  for quite awhile or ever!

[Oceangoer2]

3 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

• Now, will some cruisers skip on grats? Yes. Just like now for non AI bookings. But probably a lot fewer than people think.
• Will the galley personnel etc receive grats in some fashion? Do they now? Sharing with back of house is a very recent change in the US on land.
• Will staff now question if/when they'll receive their grats? Maybe
• Will that non-inclusion affect their service or improve it? 
• Will the cost of our cruise stay the same and the grats are still 'in there' hidden from us but still going to their staff? 
• I'm sure X will have all the answers to these questions but will they share that with us? Unlikely.

Your opening summary was great....'sources' can still be subjective or spinned or not carved in stone, but thanks for sharing!  Comprehensive food for thought.

 

My questions ideally were aimed at Celebrity to answer in time (or never as you say) and were rhetoric.  I should have realized that posting these would just add to opinions.    And yes, some outside those we interact with DO receive a portion of the gratuities....as your summary states:  " Gratuities for stateroom and restaurant services are shared by dining, bar and culinary services staff, stateroom attendants, and other hotel services teams".

 

I, for one, liked the tips included in my cruise fare.  It sounds, however, there may be a procession to guest services deleting those tips and/or a high % don't go the AI route.  This will all settle down in time just as many of the CC issues blow up then settle down into a new blow up....  Seems to be circular logic.😉 

[Oceangoer2]

15 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

You'll still have the daily auto tip in place. The difference is it's not in the fare and could be removed. With AI it's part of the fare.

 

I frankly would prefer it be in the fare. 

Ahhhh!  therein lies the rub...haha.  We ARE charged daily for the tips onboard and will have a reckoning at check out time.  I forgot that and had the impression there would be no inclusion in AI and there would be no daily charge, so that left it up to us to fill the breech.  I prefer the AI inclusion as well....and thanks for reminding me of the 'daily' charge.

[Jeremiah1212]

7 minutes ago, Bejay219 said:

-We book suites for the privacy and ease of having only 2 crew members in our suite, the Butler and Room Attendant.  When my husband fell, he was hurting for 4/5 days, he needed lots of ice, meals brought in and quiet.  Our Butler knew exactly what he needed, made sure everything was done quietly and efficiently, can't say a "Team" will. 

 

 

As mentioned, the Head Butler is in charge of ensuring the Sky Suite guests who needed more attention get it. If someone is truly hurt or generally needs constant attention, I am positive they would be taken care of. 

 

3 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

It sounds, however, there may be a procession to guest services deleting those tips and/or a high % don't go the AI route.  This will all settle down in time just as many of the CC issues blow up then settle down into a new blow up....  Seems to be circular logic.😉 

 

I can't get the search to work to find the thread, but in late 2020 Always Included (as it was referred to at the time) was going to be the demise of Celebrity. Now that it's practically pared down to nothing, that will also be the demise of Celebrity according to some. Classic case of can't win for losing. 

[CruisersTimesThree]

Thank you so much for that breakdown. Full of the facts and not speculation. Hopefully it stops the endless questions about the same topics! 

[Jeremiah1212]

16 minutes ago, hcat said:

is this what is going to happen or what may happen?  It is really  messed up  as is but both our cruises are already booked..just cleaning up errors! 

 

Would not even think of booking anything  new with X  for quite awhile or ever!

 

It was mentioned as an option. I don't really have any objection to it. Want to have a Labor Day sale and toss in grats for a 3 day period to spur bookings? Go for it. 

[hcat]

Jeremiah

thanks for the  well-organized update.. You have been a great help. I  hope this thread continues to track changes and updates to changes.

 

As a spa user, with the spa grats at 20%, I no longer give extra...and I  have  decided NOT to buy ANY products because of the added  20 % fee.  Most products can be bought on line at discount, &  in local stores; even WALMART has Kerastase now.  Not buying saves luggage space.!

 

Ques..do purchases at the Cosmetic/ Perfume, Liquor, Jewelry and other stores all involve a 20% added charge???  Never paid much attention before!  

[markeb]

1 minute ago, hcat said:

Ques..do purchases at the Cosmetic/ Perfume, Liquor, Jewelry and other stores all involve a 20% added charge???  Never paid much attention before!  

 

Actual retail purchases never included a gratuity. Anything that could be tied to a "service" (drinks, spa, etc.) did.

[CruisinShips]

25 minutes ago, Bejay219 said:

 

-The loss of bottled water in the Suite,  having to carry bottled water, soda and beer to our Suite is not our idea of relaxation. 

 

I hadn't seen this before...what is the story with that please?

[allinwonderland]

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Moving a cruise to another is considered a new booking and if done after Oct 4th you would only be able to get the current AI program at that time less the grats.

At least when I did it recently, it was not considered a new booking and therefore my TA could not take over the reservation for the new cruise, despite the ship, cabin class, year, and sail date all being different.

[OysterD]

47 minutes ago, RichYak said:

I feel like we're reading two different threads. Without raising published cruise fares a penny, in reality a 7-night Retreat booking will increase by $125pn by removing the previously included gratuities and OBC. 

For suites (plus X did say prices would decrease by the gratuities no longer included...whether they will or not is hard to say). For the other 90% of cruisers there is zero difference.

[terrydtx]

6 minutes ago, allinwonderland said:

At least when I did it recently, it was not considered a new booking and therefore my TA could not take over the reservation for the new cruise, despite the ship, cabin class, year, and sail date all being different.

Last year when we moved our New Zealand cruise from March to January, on same ship same itinerary it was considered a new booking and we lost $200 ($100pp) of our deposit for  rebooking, but we picked up a better price because of a sale going on at the time.

[Jeremiah1212]

6 minutes ago, OysterD said:

For suites (plus X did say prices would decrease by the gratuities no longer included...whether they will or not is hard to say). For the other 90% of cruisers there is zero difference.

 

No they did not. She said (very carefully) prices would be 'reflective' of the adjusted All Included program. If prices swing between now and October this is nearly impossible to quantify. Go back to the RCG's main talking point. Prices will increase. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Jeremiah1212

[cruisefam38]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

It came straight from the source. 

Since =X= has not provided meaningful communication with interested cruise passengers on this board, you put in the time and effort to create a helpful document.  Thank you. 

 

(although you may find that different individuals will read and process the information in different ways)

Edited August 30, 2023 by cruisefam38

[kwokpot]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

Cookies 

*Test pilot at the gelato bar. 

*Apparently sold hundreds over two cruises 

*Did not replace free cookies/pastries anywhere else onboard 

*Discontinued and won't be back 

***Reason given -They needed to implement a fee to temper demand since it took some time to heat the cookies 

Just to be clear, are some of the statements facetious?

[hcat]

26 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Actual retail purchases never included a gratuity. Anything that could be tied to a "service" (drinks, spa, etc.) did.

thanks..I like a  basic face cream sold on board.I .buy it and then use in Fla over winter.Maybe I'll stock up!

[OysterD]

1 minute ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

No they did not. She said (very carefully) prices would be 'reflective' of the adjusted All Included program. If prices swing between now and October this is nearly impossible to quantify. Go back to the RCG's main talking point. Prices will increase. 

I guess that's just semantics. If prices are 'reflective', it's not going to mean they'll go up as a result of gratuities not being included, if they weren't going to change at all then why mention it.

 

The strict definition of 'reflective' would indicate the prices would go down by the amount (or thereabouts) of the gratuities, but as I said, and as you pointed out, it'll be hard to quantify either way because prices change all the time anyway. 

[micruiser2002]

2 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

This news is all over the social media so here is a brief rundown of all the things that changed or were addressed by Celebrity this week. Not trying to start a debate as this isn't rumor or speculation. It came straight from the source. 

 

All Included

*Bookings created after 10/3 will not have gratuities included regardless if you book Cruise Only or All Included 

*Significantly more people booking Cruise Only in the past year (AI bookings were ~90% of the volume when initially introduced)

*Aqua Class will now offer a Cruise Only rate

*Gratuities can still be prepaid at the time of booking or anytime there after 

*Prices should be 'reflective' of gratuities being removed from the inclusions 

*Singles will no longer have the double charge for All Included 

*Quoting a flat $20 pp/pd (gratuity included) price to upgrade from Classic to Premium beverage package 

***Reason given - Drinks and WiFi are the two things people want most. (I don't agree with the delivery here - just passing along what was shared) Also provides some flexibility to use gratuities as a tool in future sales. 

 

Sky Suite Butlers

*Team concept is in place lead by a Head Butler 

*Head Butler will determine where/who needs extra attention (i.e. they will try to address who heavily uses their butler and who contacts them once in a cruise

*No one was terminated but positions were shuffled around including to other brands in the company 

***Reason given - many Sky Suites were requesting service at the same time which created a bottleneck for anyone getting service from a butler 

 

Cookies 

*Test pilot at the gelato bar. 

*Apparently sold hundreds over two cruises 

*Did not replace free cookies/pastries anywhere else onboard 

*Discontinued and won't be back 

***Reason given -They needed to implement a fee to temper demand since it took some time to heat the cookies 

 

Vaping 

*Tested, feedback received and discontinued. 

*Vapers will have to sneak their vapes in their cabins like they do today or head to a smoking area 

 

Removal of Retreat OBC

***Reason Given - None. Big miss here. This should have been directly addressed as it is (was) an crucial tool in justifying the high suite prices

 

Removal of Aqua and Concierge perks and canapes

*According to Celebrity nothing has been removed

*There should be a card in AQ and CC cabins to indicate if and how often you want these provided ranging from never to every day

*(Can someone confirm this card exists? I have not seen it.)

***Reason Given - most of these items go to waste (I cannot disagree with this. Retooling what is offered would solve a lot Please don't give me any more tins of pate!)

 

Perfect Day at Coco Cay

*Giving a few ships opportunity to visit Coco Cay based on guest feedback 

*Continue to welcome families as indicated by always having kid and teen programs 

*Family travel on Celebrity is different 

***Reason Given - Trying to make some apparent distinction that people with kids on Celebrity travel with their kids not for their kids. If you are traveling for your kids, you travel on lines packed with the 'kid stuff'. If you travel with your kids you bring them/drag them along with you. Not the first time they have mentioned this but I'm not sure I agree with this approach. 

 

MDR upcharge items

*These things will continue to be on the menu and evolve over time.

***Reason Given - these are test items to expand what is offered similar to entrees in some of the Specialty restaurants.

 

Groups

*Group rates will eventually not include gratuities 

*Nothing mentioned on the refundability of group rates 

*The previous FAQ showing group rates would only be Cruise Only is gone. Groups will be All Included. I'm still concerned that it even made it to a draft FAQ. 

*Very little shared in general. I'm hesitant to share much more since this really isn't meant for general customers and there is a ton of misinformation posted about how this program works. 

 

Ultimately there were some hits and misses. Prices will go up as demand goes up. That goes for any line. New to cruise and new to brand, especially on 7 night Caribbean cruises is very very high. I think this is where a lot of the removal of grats is stemming from. This segment frequently doesn't know better than to consider this cost element when they are booking. I suspect Celebrity has learned they need to get out in front of some of these changes (i.e. Butler Team) but a lot of this test type stuff never has and may never be communicated. 

 

I do think the All Included terminology needs to go away and eventually shift back to something more along the lines of the Go 1/2/3 or Big Better Best program that gave people easy to understand prepackaged incremental choices. 

I think you missed a big one with the latest updates to all of the menus.  Most are very downgraded in my opinion.  

[hcat]

48 minutes ago, hcat said:

is this what is going to happen or what may happen?  It is really  messed up  as is but both our cruises are already booked..just cleaning up errors! 

 

Would not even think of booking anything  new with X  for quite awhile or ever!

 

Our "NEW"  #4 invoice  arrived. 

The final payment amt is correct..The workaround  was that rep left the  change fee of $200 but reduced the cruise fare by that amount.

 

He was afraid it would get messed up doing it the "usual way".  I feel bad for staff that have to deal with all of this  apparently without much notice!

 

We are happy to have what we booked and have no need to reduce or change anything..  If the cancel us..oh well.. deposit credit goes to our card!

 

Good luck everyone!

[Jeremiah1212]

7 minutes ago, micruiser2002 said:

I think you missed a big one with the latest updates to all of the menus.  Most are very downgraded in my opinion.  

 

That was on purpose. Food in general terms was not mentioned in this discussion so there is nothing to share. It is and will remain to be subjective as always.  

[Lastdance]

8 minutes ago, micruiser2002 said:

I think you missed a big one with the latest updates to all of the menus.  Most are very downgraded in my opinion.  

This has been mentioned many times on other threads.

[micruiser2002]

Just now, Lastdance said:

This has been mentioned many times on other threads.

So has everything else that was in the 1st post of a summary of the recent changes.  That is why I said they missed the menu changes in this summary.

[Cap_D]

Speaking as a 2x Retreat E-class customer with a child, who travels with not for them, CocoCay addition is a failure so far.  We'd like a decent beach experience (have mentioned this before), and Grand Cayman, Costa Maya or Mr. So and So's club is not it. But, none of the itineraries during first half of 2024 or holiday weeks have CocoCay. It's almost all during the summer, competing with camps, prime vacation time to anywhere but Caribbean on a cruise, hurricane season, and when there's little reason to go to the Caribbean to warm up.  And, degradation in quality, increased prices, lack of communication, passengers being tested on, and so on are not and would not be offset by CocoCay.

 

* * *

Low quality food, odd items, and limited availability, has been experienced by many.  Doesn't seem subjective.  

Edited August 30, 2023 by Cap_D