Q&A with President Laura Hodges Bethge

[the penguins]

3 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 

Sorry Rich. You caught me before my Kirk & Sweeney's kicked in. 

 

It has been my assumption that all of the questions came from Captain's Club Members which are the "most loyal customers."  Then again my logic may be flawed. 

 

We are Elite+, were very critical when X introduced compolsary AI ( now gone from all grades except Suites).

Submitted a question (same one twice as X managed to lose all questions the first time around). 

My Question was why did X ever consider allowing vaping in the Casino as it went against all medical advice. I haven't watched the whole Q and A but believe she confirmed Vaping proposal is gone but did not comment on why they even considered it.

[keesar]

16 hours ago, Jjohnb said:

 

Following are just the changes that I'm aware of but there could be more:

 

There is no longer a tray with apples and pears on embarkation

They no longer provide herbal tea every day in cabin

They no longer provide a daily tray of canapes

They no longer provide a welcome bottle of champagne

They no longer provide the individual bottles of upgraded shampoo, shower gel etc

They replaced the tote bag with a smaller one

They no longer provide a sea pass card holder

They apparently eliminated the pillow menu

They do not have the yoga mats and in-room fitness items available

 

 

On our recent cruise, we received a welcome bottle of bubbly, a large tote bag, a Sea Pass holder, pillow menu and the fitness items.

 

Are you sure you were in Aqua Class?

[retired dude]

On 9/27/2023 at 5:46 AM, rmedistro said:

Nah, I speak with my wallet to Corporates, not venting online in forums. I'll quietly move on to something else for holiday travel.  While my wife and I enjoy cruises, most of our friends prefer resort destinations.  We don't live to cruise, though it's a pleasant distraction for down time currently.
I used to attend every Chiefs home NFL game. Now, prefer to watch at home vs fighting the crowds for parking, beers, and restrooms. Our life continues to evolve, and I suspect cruising is just another phase for us.

forgive me for getting off of the op's  topic, but if i had to put up with patrick M's wife and brother and taylor swift, i would stay home too....

[rmedistro]

4 hours ago, the penguins said:

We are Elite+, were very critical when X introduced compolsary AI ( now gone from all grades except Suites).

Submitted a question (same one twice as X managed to lose all questions the first time around). 

My Question was why did X ever consider allowing vaping in the Casino as it went against all medical advice. I haven't watched the whole Q and A but believe she confirmed Vaping proposal is gone but did not comment on why they even considered it.

Vaping goes against who's medical advice? You live in the UK, which is the most progressive County in the world, when it comes to vaping. It's allowed in hospitals, products even sold in hospitals. The UK has done a good job in research with the Royal College of Physicians, compared to the US and the FDA. 2nd hand vapor, is nothing but water vapor. Completely harmless. Just as primary vaping is 95% harm reduction compared to combustible tobacco products.

[wrk2cruise]

5 hours ago, the penguins said:

I haven't watched the whole Q and A but believe she confirmed Vaping proposal is gone but did not comment on why they even considered it.

 

She did say emphatically that it's gone.  I believe she was specific in saying they heard from Blue Chip (or maybe she said casino) guests that they wanted smoking in the casino.

 

Given that it appears that less than 20% of people in US/Europe smoke I still don't understand how the outcry would push a decision to change policy.   How that morphed to vaping solving the problem is anyone's guess.

[The_Big_M]

48 minutes ago, rmedistro said:

Vaping goes against who's medical advice? You live in the UK, which is the most progressive County in the world, when it comes to vaping. It's allowed in hospitals, products even sold in hospitals. The UK has done a good job in research with the Royal College of Physicians, compared to the US and the FDA. 2nd hand vapor, is nothing but water vapor. Completely harmless. Just as primary vaping is 95% harm reduction compared to combustible tobacco products.

 

The Royal College of Physicians are clear that vaping is still harmful, not "completely harmless" as you allege.

 

However, they accept it as they consider it less harmful than traditional smoking - that's the only reason why they accept them. And they make clear that is also only under the conditions in the UK, where it is more regulated and does not have the other nasties found elsewhere such as the US, including cannabis. And in their jurisdiction they point out that ecigarettes are limited to those who are already using, or have used, tobacco. Hence it does not have the easy take up that can occur in other locations.

 

So yes, even from the UK authorities it is considered harmful, and especially in the case of Celebrity ships where such vaping products are not exclusively from UK sales, so would invariably be worse than in a UK position statement, the penguins statement is correct and accurate.

[The_Big_M]

19 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

She did say emphatically that it's gone.  I believe she was specific in saying they heard from Blue Chip (or maybe she said casino) guests that they wanted smoking in the casino.

 

Given that it appears that less than 20% of people in US/Europe smoke I still don't understand how the outcry would push a decision to change policy.   How that morphed to vaping solving the problem is anyone's guess.

 

It's all about costs vs benefits. While people might say one thing (that being able to smoke would encourage them to play longer); it's extremely unlikely the "trial" saw any significant uplift in casino revenue, which is what the change was all about. It was likely this was seen as a trial to see whether smokers did increase their session times and gaming if they were able to smoke, with e-cigarettes tested upfront. If that hypothesis turned out to be true they would likely roll it out, and then potentially gone on to trial traditional cigarettes once accepted and if smoking was contained.

 

But in that context of no revenue gains, it's an easy choice given all the negative feedback they got to say they "listened to us, and the trial is over, and vaping won't be permitted."

[rmedistro]

8 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

 

The Royal College of Physicians are clear that vaping is still harmful, not "completely harmless" as you allege.

 

However, they accept it as they consider it less harmful than traditional smoking - that's the only reason why they accept them. And they make clear that is also only under the conditions in the UK, where it is more regulated and does not have the other nasties found elsewhere such as the US, including cannabis. And in their jurisdiction they point out that ecigarettes are limited to those who are already using, or have used, tobacco. Hence it does not have the easy take up that can occur in other locations.

 

So yes, even from the UK authorities it is considered harmful, and especially in the case of Celebrity ships where such vaping products are not exclusively from UK sales, so would invariably be worse than in a UK position statement, the penguins statement is correct and accurate.

1. RCOP research resulted in citing 90% harm reduction. Which is quite substantial.

2. Not sure where you come up with "More Regulated". I have been a business owner in the US for the last 12 years in this industry. We were among the first companies to export to the UK in 2014, to the largest UK chain EcigWizard.  So, those so called more regulated products were produced by my Company! 🙂

3. You simply quote something you read online (Everything on the Interweb is true, right?) And what does Cannabis have to do with nicotine vapor products? Please, just stop! You know zero about our industry, regulation, advocacy, or harm reduction, other than what media tells you!

[the penguins]

44 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

She did say emphatically that it's gone.  I believe she was specific in saying they heard from Blue Chip (or maybe she said casino) guests that they wanted smoking in the casino.

 

Given that it appears that less than 20% of people in US/Europe smoke I still don't understand how the outcry would push a decision to change policy.   How that morphed to vaping solving the problem is anyone's guess.

I always find references to Blue Chip confusing (or perhaps it's just to defect the blame) because as far as I see it's nothing more than a marketing department of Celebrity/Royal.

With regard to Vaping the points I made in my detailed question were:

In the UK/Europe and many other countries vaping inside any public building/public transport is banned along with all forms of traditional smoking. 

The UK and other countries look set to ban the sale of single use vapes.

Not only would passengers be affected but also staff.

I also asked if X allowed vaping in it's own offices - totally banned in UK/Europe/Australia/New Zealand but possibly not in the US. 

Fortunately X has, in my opinion, seen sense and withdrawn the whole proposal.

 

[weregoingcruising]

31 minutes ago, rmedistro said:

1. RCOP research resulted in citing 90% harm reduction. Which is quite substantial.

2. Not sure where you come up with "More Regulated". I have been a business owner in the US for the last 12 years in this industry. We were among the first companies to export to the UK in 2014, to the largest UK chain EcigWizard.  So, those so called more regulated products were produced by my Company! 🙂

3. You simply quote something you read online (Everything on the Interweb is true, right?) And what does Cannabis have to do with nicotine vapor products? Please, just stop! You know zero about our industry, regulation, advocacy, or harm reduction, other than what media tells you!

Is everything on CC true?

[rmedistro]

11 minutes ago, the penguins said:

I always find references to Blue Chip confusing (or perhaps it's just to defect the blame) because as far as I see it's nothing more than a marketing department of Celebrity/Royal.

With regard to Vaping the points I made in my detailed question were:

In the UK/Europe and many other countries vaping inside any public building/public transport is banned along with all forms of traditional smoking. 

The UK and other countries look set to ban the sale of single use vapes.

Not only would passengers be affected but also staff.

I also asked if X allowed vaping in it's own offices - totally banned in UK/Europe/Australia/New Zealand but possibly not in the US. 

Fortunately X has, in my opinion, seen sense and withdrawn the whole proposal.

 

I totally agree, that both smoking and vaping should never be allowed indoors, in public places. Casinos in the US have gotten away with allowing smoking for over 20 years since municipalities have banned it in the US. They pay huge sums of money for the privilege, knowing that it is one of the few public spaces that consumers can smoke openly.  If you keep them at the tables/slots, they lose more money, in a shorter period of time.

[Ken the cruiser]

3 hours ago, keesar said:

On our recent cruise, we received a welcome bottle of bubbly, a large tote bag, a Sea Pass holder, pillow menu and the fitness items.

 

Are you sure you were in Aqua Class?

That's good to hear. When was your recent cruise and what ship was it? We were on the Eclipse in an Aqua cabin for 33-days on a B2B2B transpacific cruise from Sydney to Vancouver this past April/May and received none of those. However, there was one person that posted to my Live From thread that was on the second and third legs on that same cruise who received a bottle of bubby at the start of the second leg. The only difference was they changed cabins on transition day in Hawaii and their new steward brought them a bottle. My assumption was that they tipped their first steward quite handsomely who subsequently passed the word onto their next steward to treat them nicely as they are good tippers. But, of course, this is just a guess.

[bnurick]

I have been very critical of recent changes/cutbacks. After watching the webinar my view is 1) they made changes to save money and didn’t realize the degree of push back and 2) realized they needed a restart for her as well as direct customer communication going forward.

 

Like now Delta Airlines announcing a coming walking back of some recent loyalty changes, companies are finding the breaking point for their customers.

 

I will know more after our October Eclipse sailing. This was an honest first effort.

[NMTraveller]

13 hours ago, jagoffee said:

Did you watch it?  It was not.

 

they did mention that their would some other discussion concerning MDR dining.

They punted on #1 MDR dining.

They punted on #2 balconies.  We are evaluating the number of IV cabins for Edge #5 based on feedback.

They did address #3 vaping.

 

So 1 for 3.

 

The other items such as cookiegate, canapies,  and chocolates are smaller issues that add to the nickel and diming of the cruise but won't have much to do with the decision of to book or not to book.

The first 3 issues do.

[nikel]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

They punted on #1 MDR dining.

They punted on #2 balconies.  We are evaluating the number of IV cabins for Edge #5 based on feedback.

They did address #3 vaping.

 

So 1 for 3.

 

The other items such as cookiegate, canapies,  and chocolates are smaller issues that add to the nickel and diming of the cruise but won't have much to do with the decision of to book or not to book.

The first 3 issues do.

 

She was a great "skater" when it came to the MDR dining....nothing has changed.....

[jelayne]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

They punted on #1 MDR dining.

They punted on #2 balconies.  We are evaluating the number of IV cabins for Edge #5 based on feedback.

They did address #3 vaping.

 

So 1 for 3.

 

The other items such as cookiegate, canapies,  and chocolates are smaller issues that add to the nickel and diming of the cruise but won't have much to do with the decision of to book or not to book.

The first 3 issues do.

She also said that the IVs don't work for those like her and her DH as he is a night owl and she is a morning person. 

[jagoffee]

5 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

They punted on #1 MDR dining.

They punted on #2 balconies.  We are evaluating the number of IV cabins for Edge #5 based on feedback.

They did address #3 vaping.

 

So 1 for 3.

 

The other items such as cookiegate, canapies,  and chocolates are smaller issues that add to the nickel and diming of the cruise but won't have much to do with the decision of to book or not to book.

The first 3 issues do.

So, you did watch it. Glad to hear.  Difference of opinions are to be expected.

 

She clearly gave her opinion on Infinity vs regular balconies.  She feels that if you are solo or are a couple on the same schedule it is a good enhancement.  If two people are in two different schedules, it is not  a good.  She stated that her and her husband  loved the Infinity verandas.  
 

She has some blank space in the design of the new ship, but she did not mention that it was cabin structure.  this is mostly likely common space.
 

My WAG would be they might change the veranda to offer some kind of internal privacy.  I would also guess the next totally new series  of ships (from the ground up design, not the Edge). will not include this feature.  That is the way Celebrity makes major changes.

 

I would not consider the presentation as a “punt forward” presentation.  She was as honest as she could be IMO. She provide good insight.

 

Personally I think it is a great idea for a company to test changes and evaluate them on a small scale, before implementation company wide.  

 

 

[jagoffee]

3 hours ago, jelayne said:

She also said that the IVs don't work for those like her and her DH as he is a night owl and she is a morning person. 

Are you sure?  I thought she said they were good for them.  If you are right than I was certainly wrong.

[RichYak]

1 hour ago, jagoffee said:

Are you sure?  I thought she said they were good for them.  If you are right than I was certainly wrong.

IIRC Andrea said it would work for her but Laura said it wouldn’t work for her. Those were the roles they were playing. 

[NMTraveller]

5 hours ago, jelayne said:

She also said that the IVs don't work for those like her and her DH as he is a night owl and she is a morning person. 

Well at least they recognize half of the problem.

 

The other half is that the open/close window is not a balcony.

 

I will up my score to 50% or 1.5/3.0.  

 

 

[goofysmom99]

After listening to IV portion of the script, I think IV cabins are the main reason the MDR menu selection and quality on E-class ships are better (not great but better).  S/M-class and E-class options are not the same.  Seriously, if they tried foist the S/M-class menus onto E-class, the IV would an even tougher sell.  Could be why food was avoided altogether. You want a bit better MDR food?  Sail in an IV.  Or accept the current (dreadful) MDR menus and quality in order to have a real balcony.  Tough choice.  I suppose there's always Plan C, book elsewhere.  I'm still trying to like X, though.  Big sigh.

[kathynorth]

On 9/29/2023 at 1:58 PM, Jjohnb said:

 

Following are just the changes that I'm aware of but there could be more:

 

There is no longer a tray with apples and pears on embarkation

They no longer provide herbal tea every day in cabin

They no longer provide a daily tray of canapes

They no longer provide a welcome bottle of champagne

They no longer provide the individual bottles of upgraded shampoo, shower gel etc

They replaced the tote bag with a smaller one

They no longer provide a sea pass card holder

They apparently eliminated the pillow menu

They do not have the yoga mats and in-room fitness items available

 

While some of these items may seem trivial, in the aggregate it's quite a lot to take away after you accepted a non-refundable deposit based on your toting that these things would be available.

 

Lots of these items have been gone for a very long time. The first time I sailed with Celebrity in a concierge cabin was in Aug 2008 and there was no pillow menu. When I asked about the menu the cabin steward just told me what he had available.The last time we were served the herbal tea/water when staying in an Aqua cabin was Aug 2012. The fruit tray, daily canapes, and bottle of bubbly wine are still available upon request. Recent reports indicate the Blu menu hasn't had the substantial changes that have affected MDR menus. You didn't mention the missing water that used to be automatically provided every day. That is sad change IMO, but didn't seem to be much of an issue since Aqua passengers automatically had a beverage package, at least until Aqua Sail Only rates become available starting next week. I've never seen the in room fitness equipment, but I haven't stayed in an Aqua room since they priced out of our range with the onset of AI. We always enjoyed staying in Aqua to access Blu and an occassional trip to Persian Gardens. We're hoping for the availability of Sail Only on Aqua cabins will make booking Aqua an affordable option for future cruises. 

[kathynorth]

2 hours ago, jagoffee said:

She has some blank space in the design of the new ship, but she did not mention that it was cabin structure.  this is mostly likely common space.
 

My WAG would be they might change the veranda to offer some kind of internal privacy.  I would also guess the next totally new series  of ships (from the ground up design, not the Edge). will not include this feature.  That is the way Celebrity makes major changes.

 

I agree, the blank space is likely to be some sort of common meeting area or possibly a return to a Captain's Club lounge for Elite and above, like the Diamond Club on RC ships. 

 

I don't think they'll change to foot print of the ship plans to address the IV issues. I think there will be a couple of decks with IVs that'll be advertised as having larger rooms. Then there will be cabins that are designed with more privacy between room and veranda area. The windows will be removed so they can be called true balconies. Sliders will be installed so a person can go outside while your partner can remain in the air conditioned room.

[bjahil47]

Does Laura mention anything about STARLINK Internet?  Just wondering as we are on Equinox right now, with STARLINK and Premium Internet and I cannot watch her presentation as it freezes every two minutes and restarts 5 minutes later.  The premium Internet is terrible and definitely not an improvement over the old Internet.  

[NMTraveller]

49 minutes ago, goofysmom99 said:

After listening to IV portion of the script, I think IV cabins are the main reason the MDR menu selection and quality on E-class ships are better (not great but better).  S/M-class and E-class options are not the same.  Seriously, if they tried foist the S/M-class menus onto E-class, the IV would an even tougher sell.  Could be why food was avoided altogether. You want a bit better MDR food?  Sail in an IV.  Or accept the current (dreadful) MDR menus and quality in order to have a real balcony.  Tough choice.  I suppose there's always Plan C, book elsewhere.  I'm still trying to like X, though.  Big sigh.

Some of us like our balconies.  Should not have to choose between better food and a balcony...

 

But I agree with your assessment of E class vs S class food.

Edited October 1, 2023 by NMTraveller