Flight connection time in Montreal

[cruiseej]

We're looking at return flights from a Seabourn cruise ending in St. John's Newfoundland and for one of the flight options we're considering, I have a question for anyone who has flown through the Montreal airport (which I'm not familiar with). 

 

We'd be flying Air Canada from St. John's to Montreal, an Air Canada Rouge flight, connecting to an Air Canada Express-Jazz flight to Newark in the US. The layover time is 75 minutes. Is this viable, or asking for trouble?

 

The flights are both in the Air Canada family, but one is Rouge and the other is Air Canada Express. It appears we go through US customs in Montreal, and have to go from the domestic terminal, to the US terminal, passing through US customs and immigration on the way. That sounds daunting for a 75 minute layover, but Air Canada and Seabourn FlightEase show it as a valid connection. Thoughts?

 

Our alternative is St. John's to Toronto with a longer layover, but it's a 7 am flight (which means being up about 4 am — not the most pleasant way to end a trip!) and about two hours longer total travel time.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

 

[SLSD]

We flew through the Montreal airport last June with a connecting flight to Chicago and it was a total zoo.  The airport seemed very disorganized and somewhat chaotic.  We were on Air Canada.  Perhaps our experience was an aberration.  It is hard to say.  We did not have to change terminals.  I think 75 minutes is too close.  What if your flight is late?  (Ours was.) I would try to book a flight giving yourself more leeway through this airport.  

Edited November 15, 2023 by SLSD

[Cantara24]

If you are booking through FlightEase am pretty sure they would have your back if you missed your connection.

Otherwise we avoid YUL like the plaque, never seen it other than how SLSD described.

[SLSD]

I asked Mr. SLSD and he reminded me that we DID have to go through customs at the Montreal airport.  It was in the same terminal where we landed.  There was a very long line for doing this--but it was not a difficult procedure.  

[Covepointcruiser]

Won’t we go through Customs when we leave the ship in St. John.    Our flight will be to Toronto where there should be no immigration since we are still in Canada.   We are flying from there to IAD, Dulles, and I will expect immigration at that airport.   Never had a problem with immigration or customs at that airport.

[hoya68]

U.S. Customs and Border Protection has a pre-clearance facility in Montreal, so you will clear U.S. Customs in Montreal.

[Sunprince]

Montreal airport is perfectly fine, although I avoid it in the winter months (greater chance of weather delays). All Canada to US flights from major Canadian airports have Pre-clearance of US Customs/Immig in Canada. If you have a Nexus membership it will be quick, otherwise you may be waiting in a lineup.  The officers do not care if you miss your flight!

 

My advice would be to avoid AC Rouge.  The seats are too tight, even in business (which is not really business class). Best to connect via Toronto, likely there are more daily flights to St Johns in the event of delays etc. 

[FlyerTalker]

5 hours ago, SLSD said:

We flew through the Montreal airport last June with a connecting flight to Chicago and it was a total zoo.  The airport seemed very disorganized and somewhat chaotic.  We were on Air Canada.  Perhaps our experience was an aberration.  It is hard to say.  We did not have to change terminals.

 

Well, since you don't give your routing, it's impossible to determine if your situation is analogous to the OP's.

[FlyerTalker]

3 hours ago, Cantara24 said:

If you are booking through FlightEase am pretty sure they would have your back if you missed your connection.

 

And just what do you mean by "have your back"?  What would you expect them to do that Air Canada wouldn't?

 

Check out the terms and conditions for cruiseline air.

 

 

[cruiseej]

2 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Won’t we go through Customs when we leave the ship in St. John.    Our flight will be to Toronto where there should be no immigration since we are still in Canada.   We are flying from there to IAD, Dulles, and I will expect immigration at that airport.

 

I don't believe that's correct; even though it may seem illogical, you will go through US customs in Toronto in order to board your flight to the US.

 

1 hour ago, Sunprince said:

If you have a Nexus membership it will be quick, otherwise you may be waiting in a lineup.

 

We have Global Entry, which from what I'm seeing online, is available in Canadian airports (Montreal or Toronto) for passengers to the US. Is that incorrect?

 

4 hours ago, Cantara24 said:

If you are booking through FlightEase am pretty sure they would have your back if you missed your connection.

 

But if we miss our Montreal to Newark flight, there's only one more flight that day, 3 and a half hours later. And it's a small plane (Embraer 175) and there are four of us traveling together — how likely is it for there to be four empty seats on that later flight? 

 

And would FlightEase do anything for us that the air carrier wouldn't be obligated to do anyway? 

 

 

5 hours ago, SLSD said:

I think 75 minutes is too close.  What if your flight is late?  (Ours was.) I would try to book a flight giving yourself more leeway through this airport.

 

Yes, that's exactly the concern I'm weighing. There are only three viable flights from St. John's that I'm seeing:

1. Air Canada (main line) 7:00 am to Toronto, connecting at a United Express flight with a 1 hour 45 minute layover in Toronto;
2. Air Canada (main line) 7:00 am to Toronto, connecting to Air Canada Express-Jazz with a 2 hour 30 minute layover in Toronto;
3. Air Canada Rouge 12:35 pm to Montreal, connecting to Air Canada Express-Jazz with a 1 hour 15 minute layover in Montreal
4. Okay, there's a fourth option, a turboprop flight to Halifax and then to Newark, but it has the same 7 am departure time and a three hour layover in Halifax, so no advantage over option 1 or 2.

I'd much prefer the 12:35 pm departure, allowing a good night's sleep, breakfast at a reasonable hour, and then heading to the airport. And St. John's to Montreal to Newark is about as direct as possible — the total travel time is under 6 hours. But there's that 75 minute connection…

 

On the other hand, we could allow more time for a connection by flying through Toronto. But that adds extra time flying further west to Toronto only to fly back east to Newark, so the total travel time goes up to 7 or 7 and a half hours. But there's that 7:00 am departure, requiring us to leave the hotel in St. John's around 5 am and be up around 4 am, which puts a bit of a damper on a nice last night in St. John's.

 

(These flights would be economy; it's not worth the added cost for the relatively short flight to upgrade to first/business class, and there's no first/business class on the small plane from either Montreal or Toronto to Newark.)

 

I'm thinking we probably have to deal with the 7 am flight via Toronto in order to feel more confident we won't miss the tight connection in Montreal. Does anything think otherwise — e.g. that the short connection in Montreal seems sound?  @FlyerTalker, any advice? 

Edited November 15, 2023 by cruiseej

[hoya68]

According to CBP there is Global Entry at Canadian pre-clearance facilities.

 

[SLSD]

39 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Well, since you don't give your routing, it's impossible to determine if your situation is analogous to the OP's.

I have no idea.  He asked about experiences in the Montreal airport.  We didn't have to change terminals--so that is different.  We were flying to Chicago--another difference.  All I said is that the airport was chaotic.  

[FlyerTalker]

Routings matter, because it determines what connection process is in play.

 

This is like saying Times Square was pretty empty or jammed to the gills.  Unless you qualify that, who knows if you mean 3am or on New Years Eve.

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, Sunprince said:

The seats are too tight, even in business (which is not really business class).

 

It most assuredly IS business class.  It's Rouge business.

 

Folks need to remember that all "business class" is not the same - what you find on short hauls is not comparable to intercontinental equipment.  For example, business class within Europe is on single-aisle aircraft where you have the same seat as in coach, albeit with a blocked middle.

 

Same with first class.  Different on short hauls - no way to compare it with Emirates first class on their 380s.

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

I don't believe that's correct; even though it may seem illogical, you will go through US customs in Toronto in order to board your flight to the US.

 

It's a process known as "pre-clearance".  It moves immigration and customs to an offshore facility, so that arrivals in the USA are handled like domestic flights.  It's provided at a number of Canadian airports with flights to the USA (but not all airports), as well as in Aruba, Ireland and Abu Dhabi.

 

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

We have Global Entry, which from what I'm seeing online, is available in Canadian airports (Montreal or Toronto) for passengers to the US. Is that incorrect?

 

You can use GE at pre-clearance facilities.  It helps to have your GE card, which can help facilitate using priority security screening lines, even though your GE is tied to your passport.  But since there is no GE notation on the physical passport, some security staff want more than just a verbal "I have GE".  YMMV.

 

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

But if we miss our Montreal to Newark flight, there's only one more flight that day, 3 and a half hours later. And it's a small plane (Embraer 175) and there are four of us traveling together — how likely is it for there to be four empty seats on that later flight?

 

Unknown.  A 175 isn't as small as a CRJ, but it still could be an issue.  One important thing to always consider is what options you have for your contingency plans.  Good that you are doing that research in advance.  And maybe you should just take that long connect in the first place.  You do have a good book?

 

1 hour ago, cruiseej said:

And would FlightEase do anything for us that the air carrier wouldn't be obligated to do anyway? 

 

Probably not, other than add another layer of bureaucracy into the equation.  They can't create new flights or additional seats, nor tell the airline "HOLD THAT FLIGHT".  There is a major urban legend that if you buy air from the cruiseline, you will "be taken care of".

 

As for my suggestions -- all I have are general thoughts.  One thing - when posting about flights, it ALWAYS helps to include dates, cities, flights and as much info as possible.  One reason is that cruiseline air is not a complete set of available flights and routings - it's about the inventory that is available to the cruiseline per their contracts.

 

Doing a cursory look, there are more options than just those four you mention.  I would want to have some contingency plan available,   And recognize that YYT has limited lift to limited destinations.

 

Just what dates are you planning to fly?

 

And as an FYI -- there is a cruise air forum here on CC, where air questions are probably best raised unless they are specific to a particular cruiseline program.

 

 

[cruiseej]

3 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Just what dates are you planning to fly?

 

Thanks for your thoughts. Planning to fly home on Sunday, September 29, two days after the end of our cruise. (The outbound flight is Newark to Reykjavik on September 11 on Icelandair, the only nonstop option.)

 

3 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

One reason is that cruiseline air is not a complete set of available flights and routings

 

Yes, I always research flights which are available first, including pricing, and then check what's available through the cruise line. In this case, Flight Ease seems to offer same or slightly better costs than buying direct from the airlines. 

 

3 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Doing a cursory look, there are more options than just those four you mention.

 

I did say "viable" flights. 😉  Yes, there is a 5:25 am flight, which pretty much obliterates a night of sleep! And a 5:35 pm flight which gets to Newark near 11 pm and gets us around 1 am, which isn't acceptable to those in our group returning to work Monday morning. And a couple other flights which cost hundreds of dollars more. So yes, there are other options — just not better options.

 

I've flown through Toronto and have a sense for how sprawling it is. I haven't flown through Montreal before, which is why I asked the question here about connection time. 

[CalmSea]

According to Air Canada https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/plan/check-in-information/minimum-connection-times.html#/, the minimum connection time from Canada to the US at Montreal is 55 minutes, and at Toronto is 1 hr 10 minutes. So, Air Canada expects you will be able to make it. 

[Sunprince]

13 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

It most assuredly IS business class.  It's Rouge business.

I have to disagree on that.  It is “Premium”, not true business class. It is similar to “Premium” on WestJet (although WestJet is better than Rouge.  Seat much tighter on Rouge.

 

FlyerTalker - Have you flown Premium on Rouge? I have, and would not again. Just check the AC Rouge website….clearly says Premium, not Business Class.  AC mainline has business class. 

[cruiseej]

1 hour ago, CalmSea said:

According to Air Canada https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/plan/check-in-information/minimum-connection-times.html#/, the minimum connection time from Canada to the US at Montreal is 55 minutes, and at Toronto is 1 hr 10 minutes. So, Air Canada expects you will be able to make it. 

 

Thanks for that info. I know Air Canada expects it to work, because they sell it as a valid connecting flight (e.g. I'm not trying to piece together two separate flight bookings and hope it will work). But we all know that airlines will sell connections which are technically do-able but risky in practice, and thus my question about how viable this seems for any who have flown through Montreal as a connecting airport in the past. 

[FlyerTalker]

44 minutes ago, Sunprince said:

I have to disagree on that.  It is “Premium”, not true business class. It is similar to “Premium” on WestJet (although WestJet is better than Rouge.  Seat much tighter on Rouge.

 

Remember....there is no definition of what the interior seating is for "business", nor for "first".  The terms are used to categorize the fare basis, not the interior product.  So, for the official purpose, it is business.  This is standard IATA practice.

 

Just because most airlines provide a higher level of service and product on intercontinental flights does not mean that is the "standard" for business.  Which is why you need to research each individual carrier to know what their definition of "business class" is in terms of flight product.

 

46 minutes ago, Sunprince said:

FlyerTalker - Have you flown Premium on Rouge? I have, and would not again. Just check the AC Rouge website….clearly says Premium, not Business Class.  AC mainline has business class. 

 

Yes I have.  It is akin to most domestic first class seating, arranged in a 2-2 configuration. And if you insist on conflating intercontinental business class with short-haul single aisle business class, then there's not much more to discuss.  You do recognize the difference, even though both are labeled "business"?

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

10 hours ago, cruiseej said:

I did say "viable" flights. 😉  Yes, there is a 5:25 am flight, which pretty much obliterates a night of sleep! And a 5:35 pm flight which gets to Newark near 11 pm and gets us around 1 am, which isn't acceptable to those in our group returning to work Monday morning. And a couple other flights which cost hundreds of dollars more. So yes, there are other options — just not better options.

 

And now we have that conundrum.  You don't want an early flight.  You don't want a late flight.  You don't want a short connection.  And you don't want to pay more than the lowest prices being shown.

 

Something's gotta give.  In short, you can't have it all, especially from an airport with minimal lift and minimal flight choices.

 

I would personally be taking the Porter flight at 8:35.  You have a stop in Halifax with no change of plane, so you just stay onboard for the 38 minute ground stop.  You then go to Billy Bishop airport in Toronto - a nice small facility with only 11 gates, so connects are fast and easy.  1:15 there, which is more than enough time. Then into Newark.  Bishop does not have pre-clearance, so you don't have that taking time along the way.

 

But, it all comes down to your priorities.  You need to decide what means the most to you.

 

Sorry that I have to give you harsh realities.

 

 

[cruiseej]

40 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

Sorry that I have to give you harsh realities.

No, there are no "harsh realities" here; you're making this into way more than it is! 😉 My original question was simply whether people who have traveled with a connection through Montreal, an airport I've never flown through, thought it was viable or too risky to book a connection there with a 1 hour and 15 minute layover. That was it: plausible idea or bad idea?

 

Then you brought up wanting dates, flights, etc., so I provided that. And I explained why I was focused on the short connection through Montreal versus the longer connection through Toronto. Each has trade-offs. And yes, there are other options I had pushed aside because of too-late arrival or significantly higher cost. I wasn't familiar with Porter, but the smaller Dash-8 planes (after a 20-day trip with larger carry-ons) was a negative, as was the total travel time of more than 8 hours, and the connection of just 55 minutes in Toronto (I know it's not the main airport, but if there's any delay in St. John's or Halifax, the timing is tight. But there's another flight an hour later, so I'll take another look at it.)

[FlyerTalker]

I give up.

 

Will a short connect work out?  No one can say -- it is completely a function of that particular date.  Most of the time you will be fine.  Sometimes you won't.  Want to up your odds - take a longer connect.  But oops, that would be going early in the day.  Or having to "backtrack" through Toronto. Or arriving late in the evening. Or costing more. So by discarding those options, you have backed yourself into a corner.

 

I wouldn't do it, when Porter is a much better alternative in so many ways, including their inflight service.  I'm not sure what a 20 day trip and carryons have to do with it, as that will all be taken care of for you.

 

 

[CalmSea]

@OP, I would not discount Porter immediately. Porter has a pretty good reputation. Another consideration is that Air Canada has a poorer on time arrival statistic compared to Porter. According to https://www.airportia.com/airlines/air-canada/statistic/, over the last month, 26% of Air Canada's flights were delayed by more than 15 minutes, and the average delay is 31 minutes. It is already an improvement when compared to last summer, when almost 50% of Air Canada's flights were delayed. As a comparison, over the last month, only 16% of Porter Airlines were delayed by more than 15 minutes, and the average delay is 19 minutes. 

[Sunprince]

7 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

And if you insist on conflating intercontinental business class with short-haul single aisle business class, then there's not much more to discuss.

The OP asked about flight connection times via Montreal and mentioned AC Rouge. To be helpful, I indicated that there is a difference between the Premium Rouge seat and the AC mainline Business class, in the event the OP was not aware of this.  This is a fact, not my opinion.  In return you have chosen to get into a rather aggressive debate over the technical definition of business class…this is not helpful to the OP, nor anyone else.  If you want to continue that discussion, I’d suggest you contact AC and debate with them why they call their Rouge product Premium. Or you may wish to start a new thread.