Carnival Corp record revenue and 4th quarter earnings

[jimbo5544]

7 minutes ago, Paelos said:

They are already driving record revenue. All they need to do is operate at capacity now. The debt service on TTM is $2B and their EBITDA is $4B. And again they are paying down the excess debt so they don't have to get to zero debt, they just need to get back to debt position from 2019 which was their normal operating debt point.

 

Also if the fed drops rates in 2024-2025 as we anticipate, they look to refinance the debt that is outstanding in 2 years, which depending on market may help reduce the higher number they had to secure when they had no income. 

And they have already written off a ton of the old bad debt this year as well.  

[ledges1]

4 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Interesting. Where did it  come from?

Yahoo Finance (Earnings report for CCL, part of Carnivals financial reporting).

[jimbo5544]

50 minutes ago, ledges1 said:

Yahoo Finance (Earnings report for CCL, part of Carnivals financial reporting).

Thanks

[Saint Greg]

On 12/23/2023 at 2:11 AM, groundloop said:

And yet they still keep raising prices on everything.

 

As long as people keep paying it, they'll keep raising the prices. If you aren't getting casino offers there are better deals out there with other cruise lines. I'd recommend shopping around. 

[firefly333]

3 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

As long as people keep paying it, they'll keep raising the prices. If you aren't getting casino offers there are better deals out there with other cruise lines. I'd recommend shopping around. 

Lol people used to say carnival is cheapest. Now I read msc is the cheapest, though not convenient to Galveston so never considered it. No savings if i have to fly to save a few hundred dollars.

 

The only new releases on royal under 1k for a week are out of tampa, oldest smallest, grandeur for instance I can do under 1k. I didnt even like grandeur lol. I read many celebrity cruises less than royal. Royal with all its family playground stuff is where it's gotten too pricey for me. Wonder and utopia were group bookings, not something I said oh I want to do a more expensive new ship.

 

I keep watching carnival rates and still as a solo agree with saint greg. Better deals elsewhere, sad :(

 

I used to book fall, often sept, height of hurricane season for less. Could often find a deal for a $100 a day .. all in, total. Now hurricane season you dont see the low prices from before. 

[Paelos]

There are lots of deals on most lines except RCL right now if you're willing to travel outside of summer and spring break. I used to always go in February because they had the best deals then, but I've also found good ones in late April. 

[sfaaa]

On 12/24/2023 at 12:50 PM, firefly333 said:

 Now I read msc is the cheapest,

Not necessary true anymore. MSC is also raising cruise prices and cutting back on some perks like everyone else.

[firefly333]

18 minutes ago, sfaaa said:

Not necessary true anymore. MSC is also raising cruise prices and cutting back on some perks like everyone else.

Cutting back yes. Another thread here is about msc is charging for 2nd entree, is carnival? I've rarely asked for another, like short ribs were mostly fat, or wrong cook on steak, I dont eat it red. I wouldnt like the option removed if entree wasnt good.

 

But mostly as I said I read they are the lowest. .. didnt say they werent raising prices like everyone else. Just said they were currently considered the lowest priced on many boards. 

 

It's been a while since my last carnival cruise and dinners werent great imo. I'm a bit apprehensive of my upcoming dream 14 day cruise. I've read carnival is trying to improve dinners, which is good news. My friends said I cruise for food lol. Maybe ... 

[VentureMan_2000]

On 12/23/2023 at 6:29 AM, firefly333 said:

I wish the stock would make it back over $20 already. I'm still stuck in the red the last time at over $21. Gotta admit I didnt see such a long shut down like happened. Took a loss at 29. And like a dummy rethought lower. Never catch a falling knife. 

 

I have faith it can get back over 20 .. just waiting. 

Luckily, I got out after a lot of cost averaging during the pandemic.  Even made a dollar per share more than my break-even get-out price ( pure luck price opened higher than my asking ).

Bought 100 shares at $9.40 in April only for the OBC.  OBC on my booked cruises is enough to pay the $940 buy-in, so I'm good to go here forward without worrying about stock price.  Not important since I do not plan to sell, but CCL is up 100% since April.

[Earthworm Jim]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:11 AM, groundloop said:

And yet they still keep raising prices on everything.

 

Who doesn't increase prices when sales are doing well? Do you think Apple says "We made a fortune again last quarter. Let's cut the price of the latest iPhone."?

[TiredTrucker]

3 hours ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Who doesn't increase prices when sales are doing well? Do you think Apple says "We made a fortune again last quarter. Let's cut the price of the latest iPhone."?

 

I don't think that's the frustration most are expressing.  Rather, it is how Carnival says increases and cuts are necessary to make ends meet.  By all means, raise your prices to whatever you want and your customers will decide to pay them or not.  But when Carnival reps like Heald point to a cut as necessary to control costs while ignoring the condition of their revenue, well that chafes some. 

Don't get me wrong, it isn't like I expect Carnival to come out and say "we are raising prices because we can" either.  😉

Edited December 27, 2023 by TiredTrucker

[firefly333]

10 minutes ago, TiredTrucker said:

 

I don't think that's the frustration most are expressing.  Rather, it is how Carnival says increases and cuts are necessary to make ends meet.  By all means, raise your prices to whatever you want and your customers will decide to pay them or not.  But when Carnival reps like Heald point to a cut as necessary to control costs while ignoring the condition of their revenue, well that chafes some. 

I just have the one 2 week booked and went back to royal. Royal has  much cheaper group rates and what you see in public isnt what I ever pay. Carnival doesnt do crazy low group rates and dont do perks for less money. Also excursions I have never seen them on sale so I only booked 2 and think they are high priced. Rcl does black friday excursion and other deals. 30% off most excursions. Was 35% off the year before. Nothing from carnival and many are the exact same excursions. Unusual ports or I wouldn't book the 2 i booked. Rcl had all but 1 lunch 40% off during their sales. I booked the cheapest lol Jamie's multiple ships. We did it with friends dec 10th on harmony and they ordered almost every entree and all were brought to them. 14.99 plus tips on harmony 12.99 on older smaller ships so booked it then too at that price.

 

I wish carnival would occasionally do sales. I'm willing to watch. If I could beat royals prices I'd be booking carnival too but carnival has gone nuts. Rcl I get group rates, minus $250 balcony then 25% off the entire fare (solo discount), though it also reduces my balcony discount. I'm at about half the published rates on a couple on rcl. Carnival what you see seems to be the price. 

 

I keep looking but carnival is more expensive for me as a solo. I guess if carnival can fill a cabin with a family they dont want us solos. ..of course they had record revenue lol. No surprise to me. Mardi gras still on my bucket list.

[jimbo5544]

5 hours ago, TiredTrucker said:

 

I don't think that's the frustration most are expressing.  Rather, it is how Carnival says increases and cuts are necessary to make ends meet.  By all means, raise your prices to whatever you want and your customers will decide to pay them or not.  But when Carnival reps like Heald point to a cut as necessary to control costs while ignoring the condition of their revenue, well that chafes some. 

Don't get me wrong, it isn't like I expect Carnival to come out and say "we are raising prices because we can" either.  😉

30 bill in the hole makes you say things like that.  All of which is not of their own doing.

[sparks1093]

14 hours ago, TiredTrucker said:

 

I don't think that's the frustration most are expressing.  Rather, it is how Carnival says increases and cuts are necessary to make ends meet.  By all means, raise your prices to whatever you want and your customers will decide to pay them or not.  But when Carnival reps like Heald point to a cut as necessary to control costs while ignoring the condition of their revenue, well that chafes some. 

Don't get me wrong, it isn't like I expect Carnival to come out and say "we are raising prices because we can" either.  😉

I stopped listening to Heald years ago. Still, business isn't a cut and dried thing, there are many moving parts and it's all connected. Since Carnival has much more information than you or I do about their operation I must give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to them running their business. As I've said many times as long as they give me a good value for my vacation dollar I will continue to sail with them.

[sparks1093]

14 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I just have the one 2 week booked and went back to royal. Royal has  much cheaper group rates and what you see in public isnt what I ever pay. Carnival doesnt do crazy low group rates and dont do perks for less money. Also excursions I have never seen them on sale so I only booked 2 and think they are high priced. Rcl does black friday excursion and other deals. 30% off most excursions. Was 35% off the year before. Nothing from carnival and many are the exact same excursions. Unusual ports or I wouldn't book the 2 i booked. Rcl had all but 1 lunch 40% off during their sales. I booked the cheapest lol Jamie's multiple ships. We did it with friends dec 10th on harmony and they ordered almost every entree and all were brought to them. 14.99 plus tips on harmony 12.99 on older smaller ships so booked it then too at that price.

 

I wish carnival would occasionally do sales. I'm willing to watch. If I could beat royals prices I'd be booking carnival too but carnival has gone nuts. Rcl I get group rates, minus $250 balcony then 25% off the entire fare (solo discount), though it also reduces my balcony discount. I'm at about half the published rates on a couple on rcl. Carnival what you see seems to be the price. 

 

I keep looking but carnival is more expensive for me as a solo. I guess if carnival can fill a cabin with a family they dont want us solos. ..of course they had record revenue lol. No surprise to me. Mardi gras still on my bucket list.

It only stands to reason that a family of 4 is going to spend more onboard than a solo and since it's primarily onboard spending that drives profitability so much that is going to influence how they sell and market their cruises. When we book our cruises we decide when we want to cruise and roughly were we want to cruise to, then we start comparing prices. Since we have started getting the Cheers package every sailing I will even include that in my comparison (so if a cruise line includes their drink package I will add that into Carnival's fare so I am comparing apples and apples). We did find a Celebrity cruise for 2025 that fit the bill that was only slightly more than Carnival (around $200 or so) which we booked. Unfortunately Celebrity ended up changing that ship's home port and cancelled that cruise. When I looked again they were $800 more. We all have to book with the line that makes the most sense for each of us.

Edited December 28, 2023 by sparks1093

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I stopped listening to Heald years ago. Still, business isn't a cut and dried thing, there are many moving parts and it's all connected. Since Carnival has much more information than you or I do about their operation I must give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to them running their business. As I've said many times as long as they give me a good value for my vacation dollar I will continue to sail with them.

Hell of an idea, listen to the people that have the actual information.  Novel idea.  Naw, here we would rather inject agenda driven views.  Much more fun. 🤩 

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

It only stands to reason that a family of 4 is going to spend more onboard than a solo and since it's primarily onboard spending that drives profitability so much that is going to influence how they sell and market their cruises. When we book our cruises we decide when we want to cruise and roughly were we want to cruise to, then we start comparing prices. Since we have started getting the Cheers package every sailing I will even include that in my comparison (so if a cruise line includes their drink package I will add that into Carnival's fare so I am comparing apples and apples). We did find a Celebrity cruise for 2025 that fit the bill that was only slightly more than Carnival (around $200 or so) which we booked. Unfortunately Celebrity ended up changing that ship's home port and cancelled that cruise. When I looked again they were $800 more. We all have to book with the line that makes the most sense for each of us.

All cruise lines are not created equal in terms of their marketing strategy.  Simply a fact.  Solo cruising ia a good example, but not unique.  

[Paelos]

I think if you apples to apples everything right now, MSC and Carnival are going to come out ahead of all the other lines on price without much question. Vacations to go gives you a good rundown of where the budget is and it's on those. 

[firefly333]

2 hours ago, Paelos said:

I think if you apples to apples everything right now, MSC and Carnival are going to come out ahead of all the other lines on price without much question. Vacations to go gives you a good rundown of where the budget is and it's on those. 

The problem with this theory is rcl who owns royal and celebrity does behind the scenes group rates that are much lower than what's advertised. 2 of mine are not much over half what is advertised. VTG would show 5k but my TA price was $2700. Etc. Some arent as heavily discounted, I never know untill I ask. And the $2700 price was a refundable deposit vs the 5k price booking direct was nonrefundable. 

 

Your theory assumes all lines post their real prices. I do find carnival pricing very straight forward. 

 

Idk if other lines do this but making assumptions without facts doesnt make them true. Some hate rcl dynamic pricing. It for sure isnt apples to apples if you are using vtg. I wasnt aware of the difference myself until after covid when I used a TA. My wonder cruise I booked with nextcruise onboard about $3400. Transferred to TA and now it's just under $1600. Some are almost nothing off. I've had a few only like $30 less that a gty. Solo cant book a gty on royal, 99% usually. Not fair. On carnival I can book a gty and save some. Also refundable so not apples to apples but my dec 13 2024 adventure almost no savings. 

 

Carnival I booked direct. There arent 1000 rules and oddities. 

 

I agree msc is cheaper ... carnival not so much. I saw a post this morning someone shocked how much jubilee costs. Imo carnival lost its low cost reputation, though as a stock holder I'm ok with that. Ask a TA not what you see on VTG. Some lines play dynamic pricing games.

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

The problem with this theory is rcl who owns royal and celebrity does behind the scenes group rates that are much lower than what's advertised. 2 of mine are not much over half what is advertised. VTG would show 5k but my TA price was $2700. Etc. Some arent as heavily discounted, I never know untill I ask. And the $2700 price was a refundable deposit vs the 5k price booking direct was nonrefundable. 

 

Your theory assumes all lines post their real prices. I do find carnival pricing very straight forward. 

 

Idk if other lines do this but making assumptions without facts doesnt make them true. Some hate rcl dynamic pricing. It for sure isnt apples to apples if you are using vtg. I wasnt aware of the difference myself until after covid when I used a TA. My wonder cruise I booked with nextcruise onboard about $3400. Transferred to TA and now it's just under $1600. Some are almost nothing off. I've had a few only like $30 less that a gty. Solo cant book a gty on royal, 99% usually. Not fair. On carnival I can book a gty and save some. Also refundable so not apples to apples but my dec 13 2024 adventure almost no savings. 

 

Carnival I booked direct. There arent 1000 rules and oddities. 

 

I agree msc is cheaper ... carnival not so much. I saw a post this morning someone shocked how much jubilee costs. Imo carnival lost its low cost reputation, though as a stock holder I'm ok with that. Ask a TA not what you see on VTG. Some lines play dynamic pricing games.

If they aren't advertising the fare then I'm not seeing it and Carnival wins by default. 

[Pellaz]

On 12/24/2023 at 3:50 PM, firefly333 said:

Lol people used to say carnival is cheapest. Now I read msc is the cheapest,

On 12/26/2023 at 4:25 PM, sfaaa said:

Not necessary true anymore. MSC is also raising cruise prices and cutting back on some perks like everyone else.

If MSC really wanted to, they could undercut every other cruise line out there.  They are one of the world's biggest shipping firms and, with the Houthi attacks on shipping in the Red Sea, Gulf of Aden and the Bab al-Mandab Strait, their container shipping side stands to make even more profit.*

Sometimes I'm surprised they haven't undercut everyone else already, especially since they have been breaking into new markets like the U.S.    

 

On 12/26/2023 at 4:50 PM, firefly333 said:

Cutting back yes. Another thread here is about msc is charging for 2nd entree, is carnival?

 

Not for the second entrée, but yes, there is a "nominal" $5 charge for a third entree.   

 

If MSC is charging for a second entrée...that's really sad.  As I said above, MSC ain't hurtin'.  

 

 

 

 

----

 * the reasons are complicated; see "What Is Going On With Shipping?" on YouTube for more

Edited December 28, 2023 by Pellaz

[QuestionEverything]

Google is your friend.

Google "obedient consumer". Every cruise line, airline, vehicle manufacturer relies on the obedient consumer to keep repeatedly, purchasing the product.

Plenty of obedient consumers out there.

Of course the cruise lines (restaurants etc) will downgrade everything and raise prices - they know there are many obedient consumers out there who do not care.

So, up to you.

If you continue to book cruises, you get what you deserve in the "war" of consumerism.

I have moved to customized land tours, despite having cruised since 1989.

The value of cruises is no longer there for me, Cruising is Cancelled.

There are other travel options out there, consider them.

It is your $ and you deserve the best value.

 

[Joebucks]

On 12/24/2023 at 10:00 AM, mz-s said:

 

How will they drive additional revenue to accelerate their debt payoff? Can they raise rates an additional 10, 20, 30%? They do have a few ships coming online so that does add a little more capacity, but not enough to really move the needle all that much.

 

You'd think with your frequent criticisms at all things Carnival, you'd be an expert on this. It is a very complex answer. As much as everyone talks about the debt, it isn't necessarily "why" they try to increase profit and pay down debt. It is just more of a justification to be aggressive and what is at stake. 

 

It is constantly the job of corporate to find ways to do things better, cheaper, and more exciting. While sales and revenue are always king, examining contracts, new services and partnerships, marketing trends, etc. are some of many things that are considered. 

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

You'd think with your frequent criticisms at all things Carnival, you'd be an expert on this. It is a very complex answer. As much as everyone talks about the debt, it isn't necessarily "why" they try to increase profit and pay down debt. It is just more of a justification to be aggressive and what is at stake. 

 

It is constantly the job of corporate to find ways to do things better, cheaper, and more exciting. While sales and revenue are always king, examining contracts, new services and partnerships, marketing trends, etc. are some of many things that are considered. 

Some feel the need to bring blame and criticism regardless of the topic.  As you say, it is complex and they are forced to do things financially bases on the circumstances they find themselves in (mot of their own doing I might add).  Publicly traded companies HAVE to follow the mantra of what is best for the stockholders and balance that with doing the best for their clients.   Frankly, I think they have done an outstanding job.  

[jimbo5544]

21 hours ago, QuestionEverything said:

Google is your friend.

Google "obedient consumer". Every cruise line, airline, vehicle manufacturer relies on the obedient consumer to keep repeatedly, purchasing the product.

Plenty of obedient consumers out there.

Of course the cruise lines (restaurants etc) will downgrade everything and raise prices - they know there are many obedient consumers out there who do not care.

So, up to you.

If you continue to book cruises, you get what you deserve in the "war" of consumerism.

I have moved to customized land tours, despite having cruised since 1989.

The value of cruises is no longer there for me, Cruising is Cancelled.

There are other travel options out there, consider them.

It is your $ and you deserve the best value.

 

I would agree that consumers speak with their wallets.  The rest, not so much.  Based on sales and bookings, the vast majority of cruisers think they are doing the right thing.