Love Royal but DIRE UPSETTING crew conditions - worse than others

[not-enough-cruising]

10 hours ago, HicksRA said:

Not only this, people are starving in Ethiopia….

 

I bet this person had you so upset that you left a really good tip. 
Mission accomplished.  

BINGO

[Mike07]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

Can't be all that bad since so many crew keep returning for follow on contracts 

 

 

I've been on a handful of lines, and yes, plenty of employees are on their nth contract. Actually, I'd say it's incredibly rare where I meet somebody where this is their first contract. 

 

I've met several as well that have crossed over from like Celebrity --> HAL. Uniworld --> Viking River. in recent memory. Though, these were more leadership oriented roles versus.

[not-enough-cruising]

7 hours ago, HBE4 said:

 

Do you buy your employees clothing to wear to work and pay for laundry? 😉

 

I'm kidding of course.

 

I'm on the same page as you. The only thing I can think of is that cruising - more than any other vacation destination - the crew members treat the passengers like BFF's and family.  And most passengers respond in kind. You see it all the time here on CC. "Say hi to my favorite bartender/server/cabin attendant Tell them that <*insert name here *> misses them".  Or "I can't wait to get back on my favorite ship & give my cabin attendant toys to give to their children".

 

And all that is wonderful and nice and the world needs more niceness. And I'm sure much of it is sincere. But let's be clear - they are being paid to be nice. I doubt I will be invited to their kids wedding & I doubt they will be attending my kids wedding.  BFF's we are not.  Once I'm off the ship, there is another BFF taking my place.

 

I know it sounds cynical and I'm sure someone that cruises 36+ weeks a year is going to tell me how wrong I am.  But that's the only logical explanation I can come with as to why so many take a vested interest in the employer-employee relationship on cruise ships.  My mailman, deli clerk and local highway department has more of an impact on my life & I don't go asking them about their pay & benefits. I doubt many do.

 

JMHO, YMMV, etc, etc, etc.

Not cynical at all. I appreciate your very honest, realistic statement. 
Thank You 

[smokeybandit]

3 minutes ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

I've been on a handful of lines, and yes, plenty of employees are on their nth contract. Actually, I'd say it's incredibly rare where I meet somebody where this is their first contract. 

 

I've met several as well that have crossed over from like Celebrity --> HAL. Uniworld --> Viking River. in recent memory. Though, these were more leadership oriented roles versus.

My last cruise our assistant waiter was finishing his first contract and while ready for vacation he was stoked about coming back for his second stint

[not-enough-cruising]

10 hours ago, cusematt4 said:

Oh.  Also it’s a little absurd the staff have to pay for their required to wear uniforms.  If rcl is making them wear these outfits, it would be nice for them to at least provide them.  Just very disappointed in and upset about a company that goes above and beyond for its customers and is otherwise such an impressive high quality inspirational company.

Seriously? Who doesn’t pay for their work clothes? 
 

[not-enough-cruising]

7 hours ago, Areya220 said:

I have heard that the crew gets a set wage and our “gratuities” simply make up a part of that. Anything we don’t pay, RCL pays. So really our gratuities are just reducing RCL’s payroll and not additional to their salary as we are led to believe. Does anyone know the validity of that?

Precisely 

Thank You 

[CFLRetired]

12 hours ago, cusematt4 said:

 

What’s upsetting is to learn how RCL treats its employees worse than other cruise lines, with fewer “privileges.”

 

 

the $100 of salary Royal Caribbean pays most of its crew each week (before tips).

 

This is just one example:

  "Per the Philippine Statistics Authority (PSA)'s 2022 Occupational Wages Survey (OWS), the average monthly salary in the Philippines is PHP 18,423 (US$328.99)."

 

It seems to me working on RCL after tips these crew members are better off than many in their country.  JMHO

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, CFLRetired said:

This is just one example:

  "Per the Philippine Statistics Authority (PSA)'s 2022 Occupational Wages Survey (OWS), the average monthly salary in the Philippines is PHP 18,423 (US$328.99)."

 

It seems to me working on RCL after tips these crew members are better off than many in their country.  JMHO

I have been staying similar statistics for years. You are right of course, and the crew is making out very well financially. However; you will now have a horde of people

descend upon you and admonish you for not realizing the crew should be paid American minimum wage since, after all, they are working on America. 

[goldfish65]

The restrictions on internet usage  are, I suspect, a way to keep crew from being on their phones all the time. 
 

[chengkp75]

36 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I have been staying similar statistics for years. You are right of course, and the crew is making out very well financially. However; you will now have a horde of people

descend upon you and admonish you for not realizing the crew should be paid American minimum wage since, after all, they are working on America. 

And, those same people will complain loudly when their "rights as US citizens" are abridged in some fashion, without understanding that they left the US as they walked up the gangway onto the ship.  CBP has made it abundantly clear whether or not (not) foreign crew are "working in the US", when they determined that foreign crew working on foreign ships that do a "cruise to nowhere" would be working in the US, and would require US work visas, which is why the cruise lines no longer offer these cruises.

[Engineroom Snipe]

61 posts in less than thirteen hours with hundreds upon hundreds of reactions.

 

Even more before I finish this post.

 

Qualifies as a proverbial hot topic right next to gratuities.

 

I must admit, I am looking for the best vacation experience for the cheapest price.

 

I want a good sausage for the best price available.

 

I do not care how they make it or what ingredients are in it.

 

If the sausage gets to be too expensive. I look for a cheaper alternative.

 

Maybe stuffed chicken?

 

You get my point.

 

How many cruisers are willing to put their money where their "concerns" are when they search for the cheapest cabin with double occupancy per night cost?

[S.A.M.J.R.]

9 hours ago, cusematt4 said:

I am 40 and have traveled the world.  I again am truly appalled by the ridiculing and backlash I’m getting for merely being saddened that the crew are paid a bare minimum wage without tips, while being disappointed they can’t at least be provided limited wifi to keep in touch with those they sacrifice for 8 months a year.  I thought that we could express our feelings and concerns here, whether good, bad or constructive.

I agree your heart is in the right place.  BUT...

A) Did you give the crew member any extra money so they could purchase more wifi to talk to their family?

B) MANY companies make their employees pay for their uniforms (or tools).

C) If it's so "dire" and "upsetting", why do crew keep resigning and staying with RCI?

D) You do understand how Starlink works, right?  Royal pays Starlink based on the amount of data transferred.  It's not like your home internet where you can use as much as you want whenever you want.  And it's going to be a finite amount.  The more it's being used, the slower it will need to go.  

E) You understand ALL companies decide what (if any) "perks" to make working for them more attractive.  For most US businesses, this is time off, medical benefits, retirement matching, etc.  In the case of RCI, it would be wifi access.  Employees get to decide for themselves whether the job offer (pay plus benefits) is worth it to them.  

[Ocean Boy]

9 hours ago, HBE4 said:

 

Do you buy your employees clothing to wear to work and pay for laundry? 😉

 

I'm kidding of course.

 

I'm on the same page as you. The only thing I can think of is that cruising - more than any other vacation destination - the crew members treat the passengers like BFF's and family.  And most passengers respond in kind. You see it all the time here on CC. "Say hi to my favorite bartender/server/cabin attendant Tell them that <*insert name here *> misses them".  Or "I can't wait to get back on my favorite ship & give my cabin attendant toys to give to their children".

 

And all that is wonderful and nice and the world needs more niceness. And I'm sure much of it is sincere. But let's be clear - they are being paid to be nice. I doubt I will be invited to their kids wedding & I doubt they will be attending my kids wedding.  BFF's we are not.  Once I'm off the ship, there is another BFF taking my place.

 

I know it sounds cynical and I'm sure someone that cruises 36+ weeks a year is going to tell me how wrong I am.  But that's the only logical explanation I can come with as to why so many take a vested interest in the employer-employee relationship on cruise ships.  My mailman, deli clerk and local highway department has more of an impact on my life & I don't go asking them about their pay & benefits. I doubt many do.

 

JMHO, YMMV, etc, etc, etc.

You don't come across as cynical at all. I'd say that you have a firm grasp on reality.

[not-enough-cruising]

36 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, those same people will complain loudly when their "rights as US citizens" are abridged in some fashion, without understanding that they left the US as they walked up the gangway onto the ship.  CBP has made it abundantly clear whether or not (not) foreign crew are "working in the US", when they determined that foreign crew working on foreign ships that do a "cruise to nowhere" would be working in the US, and would require US work visas, which is why the cruise lines no longer offer these cruises.

Exactly

Thank You

[not-enough-cruising]

34 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

How many cruisers are willing to put their money where their "concerns" are when they search for the cheapest cabin with double occupancy per night cost?

Or post for all of their friends to quickly pre-pay the gratuities at the old rate before it goes up, no one cares about the crew’s compensation at that time

[BecciBoo]

13 hours ago, cusematt4 said:

collectively

We do help them collectively.....every cruise they get assessed gratuity and more from our hand to theirs.

[cusematt4]

51 minutes ago, goldfish65 said:

The restrictions on internet usage  are, I suspect, a way to keep crew from being on their phones all the time. 
 

I was thinking this too.  But one idea could be to give them access to a few hours of free internet a week to call family between 11pm and 7am when passenger usage is low and many crew are “off.”

[BecciBoo]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

My last cruise our assistant waiter was finishing his first contract and while ready for vacation he was stoked about coming back for his second stint

They are more than adequately compensated...or they would stay home with their families and work.  I've had many of them tell me it's way more lucrative on the ships.  Then again, I had one maintenance crew tell me he only made 50 cents a day...grain of salt!🙄

Edited December 30, 2023 by BecciBoo

[ReneeFLL]

11 hours ago, cusematt4 said:

...a company that goes above and beyond for its customers and is otherwise such an impressive high quality inspirational company.

Now that's really funny. Where have you been?  🤣🤣🤣

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, cusematt4 said:

I was thinking this too.  But one idea could be to give them access to a few hours of free internet a week to call family between 11pm and 7am when passenger usage is low and many crew are “off.”

They have access to all the Internet that they want.

There’s no free lunch in the world, those that need Internet can pay for it those that don’t need Internet can save that money and keep it in their pocket.

And again to reiterate, my comment from above, there is no “need” for Internet; this is a “want”

[ReneeFLL]

12 hours ago, cusematt4 said:

Oh.  Also it’s a little absurd the staff have to pay for their required to wear uniforms.  If rcl is making them wear these outfits, it would be nice for them to at least provide them.  Just very disappointed in and upset about a company that goes above and beyond for its customers and is otherwise such an impressive high quality inspirational company.

Navy and airline never paid for DH uniforms and he never complained. They agreed to the contract knowing what things they would have to pay for. If it was so bad they would be working elsewhere. Give them a very huge tip if you think the conditions are so terrible.

[alfaeric]

WRT uniforms, do people not know that mechanics need to pay for their own tools on top of the required uniform?  Multi thousands of dollars up front to get a good enough tool set- takes years to pay for it all, and there's no guarantee that you will use it enough to pay it off.  Relative to US costs of living, mechanics don't make that great of money, so this is a massive burden on them.  This includes the ones working for huge corporations.  The ones that pay for computers for higher paid employees.

 

And I sometimes wonder that since we are putting a face to the work, we fell more for these guys vs the ones in the engine room, or the ones who are shipping stuff to us overseas.  

 

For us, we like to talk to everyone we encounter, and do our best to make their jobs easier and more pleasant.  Let alone tip them- $10 is 5 hours of internet?

[FamilyCruiserUK]

Again another emotive subject. Ive been to many places in the world where i hear peoples experinces and they share what kinda contract they are on, perks, etc..However i deal in evidence and facts. I would like to see a proper contract stating how much they earn, perks, etc. I could probably find it somewhere on Google but TBH im cooking bread so cant really be bothered. 

I guess the answer would be to stop sailing with Royal. Whilst their ships are full, prices high, people toping up wages via graturites, Royal will continue down their current path. There is no incentive to change..as for the Staff, lots stay and come back for more. 🤷. 

And finally i guess we have to stop comparing their earnings, T&Cs with what we expect in the UK or US. 

 

[CruisinNole]

A few years ago on a Celebrity cruise, I attended a Q&A with the Captain. A woman stands up and starts to ask a question about crew wages and working conditions. I say "starts" because the captain shut her down immediately. I don't remember his exact words but they were on the order of, "That's not your business. Next question." I don't ask a hotel housekeeper how much she makes or if she has to pay for internet. When I worked, I never discussed my salary or working conditions with a customer. I was taught at a young age that it is not polite to ask people how much they make. And I never discuss salary or working conditions with a cruise ship employee. It's not my business. 

[Tatka]

12 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

I would be curious to know if there is any other industry where the patrons spend so much time meddling in the employer-employee relationship.

They can start about American workers… working on low paid jobs…. not even on minimal wage. I seriously have no idea how they survive with our real estate prices, rents etc …

 

  This conversation would be an equivalent of feeling sorry for someone making $10k-15k with almost no expenses while working long hours. 

 

Yes, it’s tough (who likes to work hard?!), but there is a reason.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Tatka