Enhanced elevator system

[S.A.M.J.R.]

Just now, shof515 said:

 

yes that is right 

OK

Just now, shof515 said:

 

they get assigned a new elevator like elevator a. one elevator is going down from 11 and another elevator is going up to 11. similar to how current elevator works right now 

Sorry, that doesn't make sense.  Person 1 (you) is on deck 7 and wants to go to deck 11.  Person 2 is on deck 5 and wants to go to deck 11.  They would tie up two elevators with a single person each?

Just now, shof515 said:

 

its going to reduce the tie up of all elevator. if they hit all of the buttons depending on what deck they on, it will assign the same elevator letter. 

Why would it assign the same elevator?   I thought it was an "express".  So if I'm on deck 5 and want to go to 11, someone else in the lobby (deck 5) wants to go to deck 12, they get two different elevators, right?  If they get assigned the same elevator, then it's not an "express" to get to deck 12 (because it needs to stop at 11).  

 

That's just two people in the same lobby going to two different floors. 

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

Just now, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Why would it assign the same elevator?   I thought it was an "express".  So if I'm on deck 5 and want to go to 11, someone else in the lobby (deck 5) wants to go to deck 12, they get two different elevators, right?  If they get assigned the same elevator, then it's not an "express" to get to deck 12 (because it needs to stop at 11).  

 

That's just two people in the same lobby going to two different floors. 

"Express" in the sense that a kid won't press all the buttons inside. But no, it's not going to put one per elevator if they're going the same direction.

 

I've been in the same system at the Marriott Marquis in Manhattan and I've had it where it went directly to the floor I wanted, but I've also had it where there were 4 or 5 floors that it stopped at.

[Oxo]

Used this new elevator on MSC, in NY Hotels, etc. They can be good and can be bad. Many people don't know how to use and have problems in understanding how to use them. People get on not knowing that it has already been programmed to go to a specific floor, etc. 

It is fun watching people using it. But can also be frustrating!

[HappyTexan44]

It has to beat the idea of "Going Up in Order to Go Down" that is sometimes a forced thing when on a floor nearer the floor that everyone is going to at the same time.  

[S.A.M.J.R.]

7 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

"Express" in the sense that a kid won't press all the buttons inside. But no, it's not going to put one per elevator if they're going the same direction.

 

I've been in the same system at the Marriott Marquis in Manhattan and I've had it where it went directly to the floor I wanted, but I've also had it where there were 4 or 5 floors that it stopped at.

So a kid hitting all the floors in the lobby panel would tie up at least two elevators (one going each direction)?  

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued.  I'd like to see how well it works at a "crowded" time... before/after a show, before/after dinner, etc.  

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

Just now, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So a kid hitting all the floors in the lobby panel would tie up at least two elevators (one going each direction)?  

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued.  I'd like to see how well it works at a "crowded" time... before/after a show, before/after dinner, etc.  

Well, they'd have to literally hit each floor one at a time and wait for it to assign the elevator. I doubt most kids are going to have the patience to go 2...wait...3...wait...4...wait...5...wait, etc. all the way up to however many decks the ship has. I've never met a kid who has that much patience.

[gallagher123123]

TBH, I'm surprised how long it took Royal to add Destination Dispatch Elevator technology to their ships. Carnival started with the Vista class in 2016. I know they tried it for a brief time on Harmony in 2017, but have no idea why they decided to abandon it there. 
Something interesting, I believe this might be the first KONE Destination Dispatch system on a cruise ship. Carnival and MSC use a Schindler system.

[neverbeenhere]

I'm not an elevator rider, but I might use this new system. On 5 want to go to 12, take the elevator to 11 and walk up one floor.

[Starry Eyes]

2 hours ago, SilkySal said:

Yes, I am in a scooter, so wondering about that as well!

I hope more elevators will arrive with space for your scooter.  

[jam19872016]

The problem with these elevators on Carnival is that too many parties of 4 push the button for one. The elevators think one person got on instead of four, and assigns more people than can fit onto the same elevator.

 

It is a well documented problem. 

 

So I am surprised that people are saying that is not required on these elevators. 

 

Even if it is going by some kind of weight sensor it cannot predict the weight before a group gets on and may assign too many groups to an elevator before it realizes it's at capacity. 

 

Unless I am missing something, there is absolutely no way this system can work without you telling the elevator how many people are in your party intending to get on.

 

Maybe if it is smart enough to assume 2.3 people every time the button is pushed, or knows a show just let out and all elevators should be dispatched to the theater. Somehow I doubt it is THAT advanced though. 

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

1 minute ago, jam19872016 said:

The problem with these elevators on Carnival is that too many parties of 4 push the button for one. The elevators think one person got on instead of four, and assigns more people than can fit onto the same elevator.

 

It is a well documented problem. 

 

So I am surprised that people are saying that is not required on these elevators. 

 

Even if it is going by some kind of weight sensor it cannot predict the weight before a group gets on and may assign too many groups to an elevator before it realizes it's at capacity. 

 

Unless I am missing something, there is absolutely no way this system can work without you telling the elevator how many people are in your party intending to get on.

 

Maybe if it is smart enough to assume 2.3 people every time the button is pushed, or knows a show just let out and all elevators should be dispatched to the theater. Somehow I doubt it is THAT advanced though. 

 

Thank you!! I've been saying from my first time getting crammed into one that there needs to be a way to designate how many people are in the party.

[jam19872016]

1 minute ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

Thank you!! I've been saying from my first time getting crammed into one that there needs to be a way to designate how many people are in the party.

My workaround is I automatically push it twice if I am alone. If I am with someone I push it 3 or 4 times.

 

If I see another party pushing it once, I go ahead and push it for the rest of the party.

 

I used to explain why I was doing that, but nobody cares and you're the jerk for trying to explain the system to them so I just let them give me crazy looks and carry on 🤣. 

 

Not a perfect solution but it helps.

[tscoffey]

52 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm intrigued.  I'd like to see how well it works at a "crowded" time... before/after a show, before/after dinner, etc.  

Over the years in my IT career, I have written software simulations of elevator dispatch systems. Normally it was focused on high-rise buildings (30+ floors), so a cruise ship with 20 floors would not necessarily fall in that category.

 

Anyway, one of the building traffic pattern simulations that is tested is "Morning upload" (similar is "Evening "download"), where it is expected that a vast majority of car riders during a set time period are going to enter from 1-2 bottom floors (morning), and exit at essentially a random floor. To optimize the passenger delivery throughput the solution would involve setting aside some number of cars (but not all) to only take "up" requests from those bottom floors, while ignoring down requests. After a car reaches the highest floor, it automatically and quickly recycles back to the lowest floor(s) in an empty state. A few cars are reserved for the less frequent down requests, and inter-floor requests. 

I would assume for your scenario, cars would be assigned to recycle back to the theater exit floors in this manner, with maybe 1 car kept out for other requests (as above). This traffic pattern would be activated perhaps 10 minutes before the end of a show, and remain in effect for some minutes after the show ends.

Edited January 25 by tscoffey

[RedIguana]

51 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

Well, they'd have to literally hit each floor one at a time and wait for it to assign the elevator. I doubt most kids are going to have the patience to go 2...wait...3...wait...4...wait...5...wait, etc. all the way up to however many decks the ship has. I've never met a kid who has that much patience.

I'm not sure you have to blame the kids. Somehow I can picture a slightly inebriated lizard pushing multiple combinations of numbers just to see how the system works. Or just trying to figure out where it is said lizard really wants to go 🤣

[Mum2Mercury]

This is the first I'm hearing of this, and I don't understand a couple things: 

 

- I'm on the ship standing in the middle of four elevators ... I push the button saying I want to go to the 10th floor ... how does the system inform me of my elevator assignment?  

- Let's say the area is crowded.  Once I know my assignment, must I push my way through saying, "Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me" to get to the one at the back?  That sounds inconvenient.  

- I suppose the big deal is that the system optimizes the waiting passengers and puts ALL the 5th floor guests into elevator 1 and all the 10th floor guests into elevator 2?  

- Surely you're sometimes going to stop at 5 and then move on up to 10?  

- Let's say I approach the elevator area, and I want to go to the 10th floor.  Will I be able to see that you (a stranger) have already pushed for the 10th floor?  Would it be appropriate for me to piggyback with you, or would I need to put in a second request ... even it's going to put me into your already-requested 10th floor assignment?  

- I assume this is going to require a learning curve.  

 

My initial impression -- without having seen /tried the system -- is that this is a solution in search of a problem.  With the exception of Embarkation and Disembarkation days, when things are a bit squirrely because of the crowds, it seems to me that the elevators work fine.  

1 hour ago, nelblu said:

How about the mass of humanity headed for elevators after a performance in the theater or the Aqua and ice skating shows.

That'll be a problem, but it's a problem now too.  

1 hour ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So a kid hitting all the floors in the lobby panel would tie up at least two elevators (one going each direction)?  

Presumably the kids would be a little less likely to hit every button outside (in plain view) ... whereas now they can hit all those buttons "in private" inside the elevator.  

32 minutes ago, jam19872016 said:

The problem with these elevators on Carnival is that too many parties of 4 push the button for one. The elevators think one person got on instead of four, and assigns more people than can fit onto the same elevator.

Well, that's a problem with plain elevators now.  A big family pushes the "up" button, and they take up the whole car.  

32 minutes ago, jam19872016 said:

It is a well documented problem. 

Problem is too strong a word.  

[tscoffey]

14 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

- I'm on the ship standing in the middle of four elevators ... I push the button saying I want to go to the 10th floor ... how does the system inform me of my elevator assignment?  

There is a display on the keypad that tells you, pretty much immediately, which car to take.

14 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

- Let's say the area is crowded.  Once I know my assignment, must I push my way through saying, "Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me" to get to the one at the back?  That sounds inconvenient.  

Classic human factors that software can't fix. Also, this is not unique to this system of dispatch. The classic "hall call" has the same problem.

You even have that problem with the steps.

 

- I suppose the big deal is that the system optimizes the waiting passengers and puts ALL the 5th floor guests into elevator 1 and all the 10th floor guests into elevator 2?  

Exactly. The total rider time (wait+transport) is reduced significantly.

 

- Surely you're sometimes going to stop at 5 and then move on up to 10?  

Riders that change their mind mid-transport. More human factors.

 

- Let's say I approach the elevator area, and I want to go to the 10th floor.  Will I be able to see that you (a stranger) have already pushed for the 10th floor?  Would it be appropriate for me to piggyback with you, or would I need to put in a second request ... even it's going to put me into your already-requested 10th floor assignment?  

You will only know where they are going if you ask them. But that's kind of creepy, so..

 

- I assume this is going to require a learning curve.

Most people adapt after only a few rides. It's really quite intuitive.

  

 

Edited January 25 by tscoffey

[jam19872016]

17 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

 

Well, that's a problem with plain elevators now.  A big family pushes the "up" button, and they take up the whole car.  

I think one of the points of this system is to allow less elevators to handle more people. I could be wrong but on the ships Carnival uses it on they have installed them where there are less elevators than they would traditionally use so when they are not being used as intended it creates a bigger mess than it would if there were the proper number of elevators. 

 

I can't speak if that is the case on Icon. Perhaps they do have plenty of elevators available.

 

It also is designed to make less stops so part of the time savings is actually just time shifted from inside an elevator to time spent waiting for an elevator. If you are waiting for more than one cycle, I would think your time has increased more than it would have in the first scenario. 

 

I do find it interesting that the other person says elevators could easily be programmed to account for the different likely traffic patterns that lead to large crowds and if these elevators are in fact programmed to account for that I can see how telling it your party size would not be necessary. 

 

Time will tell after a few revenue sailings. If they don't work, it will be a complaint that pops up frequently. I hope they do work because if properly used smart elevators would do wonders at easing elevator congestion. 

Edited January 25 by jam19872016

[crzndeb]

17 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

I'm on the ship standing in the middle of four elevators ... I push the button saying I want to go to the 10th floor ... how does the system inform me of my elevator assignment?  

I saw a YouTube video of somebody on the Icon, and after you push the button, it displays A-F (or however many elevators there were). You walk over to that elevator, which is marked on the outside and wait for it. There are no buttons on the inside of the cars. I  sure you could check YouTube and see exactly how it works.

[Mum2Mercury]

Thoughts:

 

- So one keypad serves "the elevator pod" of four lifts?  And after you put in your desired floor, your answer pops up on the key pad?  

- At busy times, are people standing in line to use the keypad?  Or do they have multiples? 

- I don't think total rider time is particularly long now, so I have trouble believing it could be reduced "significantly".  Maybe I'll change my tune after I see the process.  

- Are you saying the system would never group two floors of riders together?  You'd always have a direct ride?  Seems that'd mean a shorter ride but a longer wait to get on an elevator.  

- Let me reword:  You (a stranger) are ahead of me.  Can I see that you keyed in 10th floor?  I also want to go to the 10th floor.  Would it be appropriate for me to stand near you and "piggyback" on your trip, or should I put in a second 10th floor request?

- I'm wondering where the line begins for creepy.  I mean, right now if we enter an elevator together it's not rude for the person nearest the buttons to say, "Where are you going?"  

- I'm sure it is intuitive, and we'll all figure it out quickly ... but since I am not going to see it soon, I appreciate those of you who are "in the know" sharing information.  

[Mum2Mercury]

Just now, crzndeb said:

I saw a YouTube video of somebody on the Icon, and after you push the button, it displays A-F (or however many elevators there were). You walk over to that elevator, which is marked on the outside and wait for it. There are no buttons on the inside of the cars. I  sure you could check YouTube and see exactly how it works.

What can't you learn from You Tube!

I'll check it out.  

[SUgwoz]

1 minute ago, jam19872016 said:

 Time will tell after a few revenue sailings. If they don't work, it will be a complaint that pops up frequently. I hope they do because if properly used smart elevators would do wonders at easing elevator congestion. 

Regardless I think you will see complaints.  Someone who waited for a elevator for 3 minutes to arrive, but it went straight to the floor they wanted, will be viewed as worse than someone who waited 1 minute, but then proceeded to stop at 7 floors (multiple where no one gets on/off) and took 3 minutes.

 

On average I would expect the elevators to be more efficient, but unique circumstance may result in a few trips taking longer.  The isolated trips taking longer will be the ones reviewed.

[crzndeb]

1 minute ago, Mum2Mercury said:

What can't you learn from You Tube!

I'll check it out.  

Here’s a short

 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kul1I2m5ehQ

[taglovestocruise]

Sounds great for teen's, elevator bingo. Just get into any door that opens and guess where you end up. Get off and do it again.  I think I can get to the pool deck in six tries, oh yeh, I can do it in 5.

[jam19872016]

2 minutes ago, SUgwoz said:

Regardless I think you will see complaints.  Someone who waited for a elevator for 3 minutes to arrive, but it went straight to the floor they wanted, will be viewed as worse than someone who waited 1 minute, but then proceeded to stop at 7 floors (multiple where no one gets on/off) and took 3 minutes.

 

On average I would expect the elevators to be more efficient, but unique circumstance may result in a few trips taking longer.  The isolated trips taking longer will be the ones reviewed.

Fair point. I guess I will need to check it out first hand...but not at these prices 😂 

[jam19872016]

1 minute ago, taglovestocruise said:

Sounds great for teen's, elevator bingo. Just get into any door that opens and guess where you end up. Get off and do it again.  I think I can get to the pool deck in six tries, oh yeh, I can do it in 5.

That actually sounds like fun. Can adults play too?