Enhanced elevator system

[Mum2Mercury]

2 minutes ago, SUgwoz said:

Regardless I think you will see complaints.  Someone who waited for a elevator for 3 minutes to arrive, but it went straight to the floor they wanted, will be viewed as worse than someone who waited 1 minute, but then proceeded to stop at 7 floors (multiple where no one gets on/off) and took 3 minutes.

 

On average I would expect the elevators to be more efficient, but unique circumstance may result in a few trips taking longer.  The isolated trips taking longer will be the ones reviewed.

I agree that the perception of time doesn't always match up to the clock.  

I also agree that people tend to jump on the negative, while ignoring the positive.  

2 minutes ago, crzndeb said:

Here’s a short

 

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kul1I2m5ehQ

Thanks!  I'm enjoying learning about this.  

Just now, taglovestocruise said:

Sounds great for teen's, elevator bingo. Just get into any door that opens and guess where you end up. Get off and do it again.  I think I can get to the pool deck in six tries, oh yeh, I can do it in 5.

Doesn't sound appealing to me (or any adult), but if you figured this out just reading this board, the teens'll probably figure it out the first evening.  

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

9 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Are you saying the system would never group two floors of riders together?  You'd always have a direct ride?  Seems that'd mean a shorter ride but a longer wait to get on an elevator.  

- Let me reword:  You (a stranger) are ahead of me.  Can I see that you keyed in 10th floor?  I also want to go to the 10th floor.  Would it be appropriate for me to stand near you and "piggyback" on your trip, or should I put in a second 10th floor request?

 

1st question - no, there are times when there will be multiple floors assigned to one elevator

 

2nd question - You should put in your deck number. There can be enough of a possibility of over-assigning people to the elevator based on the number of pushes vs. the number of people in a party - most parties will only press it once regardless of how many people, so a family of 5 would be assigned to an elevator as if only 1 or maybe 2. Not only is there the creep factor of "what floor are you going to?" before you're even on the elevator, if you "piggyback" on them, the system isn't accurately accounting for the number of people requesting.

[crzndeb]

I have used this technology back in 2021 on Carnival Panorama, but you had to hit the deck number for each person in your party. It’s just me, so it was simple. I never had any issue with anybody messing around with it. Of course, I saw plenty of confused people, so I would always stop to help. I thought it worked very well. 

[toxicfairy]

4 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

I like the concept, though I wonder how the computer knows how much space to allocate for your party during busy times.  The article I read said said when the elevator arrives, there will be space for you.  Hypothetically when I approach the keypad I might need an elevator for a spouse, a big stroller, 3 kids, a grandparent on a scooter and myself; we will pretty much fill an elevator. If there was space for all of us, there probably would not be space for anyone else the computer may have wanted to include on our route. The next time I approach that keypad, I might be alone.

Right, how does it know that there are 4 people who are VERY LARGE and 4 average sized. Or that there are 3 people waiting with strollers

[S.A.M.J.R.]

1 hour ago, tscoffey said:

Over the years in my IT career, I have written software simulations of elevator dispatch systems. Normally it was focused on high-rise buildings (30+ floors), so a cruise ship with 20 floors would not necessarily fall in that category.

 

Anyway, one of the building traffic pattern simulations that is tested is "Morning upload" (similar is "Evening "download"), where it is expected that a vast majority of car riders during a set time period are going to enter from 1-2 bottom floors (morning), and exit at essentially a random floor. To optimize the passenger delivery throughput the solution would involve setting aside some number of cars (but not all) to only take "up" requests from those bottom floors, while ignoring down requests. After a car reaches the highest floor, it automatically and quickly recycles back to the lowest floor(s) in an empty state. A few cars are reserved for the less frequent down requests, and inter-floor requests. 

I would assume for your scenario, cars would be assigned to recycle back to the theater exit floors in this manner, with maybe 1 car kept out for other requests (as above). This traffic pattern would be activated perhaps 10 minutes before the end of a show, and remain in effect for some minutes after the show ends.

That makes sense from a building standpoint.  "Most (90%?) of the people will either be starting from the bottom or trying to get to the bottom."  On a cruise ship, lets say when a show is ending, you have people starting on deck 5, with some wanting to go down, and some wanting to go up.  

 

With dinner, you have three decks to supply/pickup from and people could be starting from below or above.  But, it sounds like other cruise lines (and I guess Icon?) are using it, so it must not be awful, but is it "better"? 

[Mum2Mercury]

11 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

1st question - no, there are times when there will be multiple floors assigned to one elevator

That could be less efficient than the current method.  

Say you have one person who wants to go to Deck 6 and four who want to go to Deck 8.  With this new system, the single rider will go to Deck 6, making the Deck 8 riders wait ... whereas, if they'd boarded together the Deck 8 riders would have to "endure" one stop, but they'd get to Deck 8 faster.  

10 minutes ago, crzndeb said:

Of course, I saw plenty of confused people, so I would always stop to help. I thought it worked very well. 

I'm sure everyone would "catch on" after the first day.  

3 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

But, it sounds like other cruise lines (and I guess Icon?) are using it, so it must not be awful, but is it "better"? 

That's what I'm wondering.  I don't think the current system is bad, and I'm thinking this would be different for the sake of different with both good and bad.  

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

4 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

That could be less efficient than the current method.  

Say you have one person who wants to go to Deck 6 and four who want to go to Deck 8.  With this new system, the single rider will go to Deck 6, making the Deck 8 riders wait ... whereas, if they'd boarded together the Deck 8 riders would have to "endure" one stop, but they'd get to Deck 8 faster.  

 

You asked if it would only be one floor per elevator. I said that there are times when multiple floors would be assigned. Which is exactly what you said "if they'd boarded together..." The Deck 6 and Deck 8 people could be assigned the same elevator - though the system could only think there are 2 people and not 5 (1 for deck 6 and 4 for deck 8 ) unless all the people for deck 8 are solos so each pressed the button.

[tscoffey]

7 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Say you have one person who wants to go to Deck 6 and four who want to go to Deck 8.  With this new system, the single rider will go to Deck 6, making the Deck 8 riders wait ... whereas, if they'd boarded together the Deck 8 riders would have to "endure" one stop, but they'd get to Deck 8 faster.  

No, not necessarily. The system is able to detect traffic usages (or can be told to expect specific patterns , ie pre/post dinner or theater loads), and adapt accordingly.

So during a heavy use period, those riders going to floors 6 and 8 could, and likely would, be bundled together (assuming they aren’t calling from floor 7, which changes things quite a bit), as this would be more optimal at that time.

 

In a light use pattern, they may indeed get separate cars. But all of this is based on usage/assignments the other cars have.

 

The dispatch algorithms are really quite complicated, and very adaptive. People have dedicated their PhD theses to these problems (and similar ones in nature) over the years.

[tscoffey]

49 minutes ago, jam19872016 said:

 

It also is designed to make less stops so part of the time savings is actually just time shifted from inside an elevator to time spent waiting for an elevator

Exactly! When this system is installed and optimized correctly, the total average passenger travel time is reduced 10-30%, with the tradeoff that even though any single passenger may spend a marginally longer time waiting for a car, they then spend much less time after getting into the car, since there are significantly fewer interim stops to endure.

[DallasGuy75219]

4 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

On board and using this for 3 days and it's the most civilized elevator service I've seen on a ship.  

Would have loved it on Harmony last week.  Was on steerage on 3 and there were multiple times when the elevator stopped at each floor for 5 or 6 consecutive floors, especially going to the WJ on 16.

[bg2310]

5 hours ago, dbancroft said:

Is it true that if there is 6 people in your party you press the button 6 times?

 

5 hours ago, schooner_Drinker said:

Once is enough 

 

That’s a rumor and holds no truth 

 

This is actually not true.

 

The correct way to be doing it is to press as many times as there are people in your group. That way, the computer/system knows how many people are getting on and does not over-assign/overfill the elevator.

 

Otherwise, how would the system know? It would need to assume only 1 person is getting in otherwise, it's not just "magic" as the system wouldn't know without being told. See example below.

 

1 hour ago, jam19872016 said:

The problem with these elevators on Carnival is that too many parties of 4 push the button for one. The elevators think one person got on instead of four, and assigns more people than can fit onto the same elevator.

 

It is a well documented problem. 

 

So I am surprised that people are saying that is not required on these elevators. 

 

Even if it is going by some kind of weight sensor it cannot predict the weight before a group gets on and may assign too many groups to an elevator before it realizes it's at capacity. 

 

Unless I am missing something, there is absolutely no way this system can work without you telling the elevator how many people are in your party intending to get on.

 

Maybe if it is smart enough to assume 2.3 people every time the button is pushed, or knows a show just let out and all elevators should be dispatched to the theater. Somehow I doubt it is THAT advanced though. 

 

[nelblu]

25 minutes ago, schooner_Drinker said:

Change is sometimes good . And the new system is good, but you have to experience it before second guessing it 😎

So was Dynamic Dining when introduced on Quantum and Anthem.   Complainers caused a quick death to this concept.

[tscoffey]

1 hour ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Let me reword:  You (a stranger) are ahead of me.  Can I see that you keyed in 10th floor?  I also want to go to the 10th floor.  Would it be appropriate for me to stand near you and "piggyback" on your trip, or should I put in a second 10th floor request?

You can absolutely do that, with likely zero negative effect on the efficiency of the dispatch system (unless all cars are running near capacity, and you inadvertently make one overassigned for a short time).

This is one of those “human factors” that software developers try to account for, but really hate. We much prefer that everyone act as a “rational actor” at all times. We know that isn’t always possible, so you allow for misuse - like, don’t assign cars out to 100% capacity. Use 70-80% as your “full” capacity to allow for the occasional  “irrational actor” riders to not greatly mess up the system.

Edited January 25 by tscoffey

[bg2310]

8 minutes ago, schooner_Drinker said:

Oh I am so sorry 😳

so the 5 times we have sailed on MSC and used such elevators was a figment of my imagination - But I am Diamond plus and Black Diamond on MSC so maybe it works better for us ( insert I am just blagging 😬)🤥

 

Never ever have we pressed it twice for me and my partner and never have we had an issue.

Never witnessed anyone pressing it multiple times - other than to confirm they had already done so 

and system worked perfectly fine 

 

I’m happy with it, we know how it works

and have used it and for all those going on ICON it’s easy and after a few uses you’ll be happy 

 

Some folks are just terrified of change and new stuff (well it’s actually 5/6 years old)

 

Enjoy using when you sail on ICON or MSC 

 

Nancy 

 

Here is my Indian Byriani and fixings in the Oceanview cafe on X Ascent 

Elevators on here work perfect BTW

and we only have 5 kids on this ship 

 

Nancy 🍷🍷🍷

 

Never said how you experienced it was imaginary. I simply corrected you and provided an explanation as to why it's not a "rumor" as accurate input would be needed. Maybe not be so defensive?

 

Just because the way we've used something in the past and it's worked doesn't necessarily mean it's the correct way. 

 

Also, just because something has worked the way you've done it doesn't mean you understand it entirely or how it works.

 

It goes back to what I said originally - how is a system supposed to know how many people are getting on an elevator without the relevant input?

 

It doesn't. You must provide that input. As someone who works with computers and systems for a living, they don't just "work" like magic. It might seem that way, but underneath it there are variables and parameters that have to be provided.

 

Am I saying it doesn't work unless you do it the "correct" way? Nope.

 

[tscoffey]

1 hour ago, SUgwoz said:

Someone who waited for a elevator for 3 minutes to arrive, but it went straight to the floor they wanted, will be viewed as worse than someone who waited 1 minute, but then proceeded to stop at 7 floors (multiple where no one gets on/off) and took 3 minutes.

One of the things I liked to optimize when I wrote this software was “passenger experience”. You try to guess what events a passenger hates more: waiting in the lobby, versus stopping at interim floors. You then tweak the simulation one way or the other, then run 1000 simulated dispatch/delivery sequences using expected loads and traffic patterns, and see how it did with optimizing said “passenger experience” with those parameters. It can never be perfect for everyone, of course. Plus, the type of elevator passenger in a cruise ship, versus a high-rise building (age, especially skewing higher for a cruise ship, versus a building user) likely would drive what is considered a “good” versus “bad” elevator passenger experience.

Edited January 25 by tscoffey

[LobsterStalker]

5 hours ago, schooner_Drinker said:

How can you jump in front?

You would have to have known what the previous PaX had selected.

or get in an Elevator on a whim and hope it goes close to where you need to go 

 

it eliminates that happening 

 

Nancy 🍹

I strongly disagree

Maybe you only run into the best of people when you travel ... I have also seen the worst !

The masses are ready to exit the ship at Cococay  , someone walks around the corner and sees people standing with their towels ready to go ... It's not hard at all to figure out they are going the same place as you

[LobsterStalker]

5 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

5 hours ago, LobsterStalker said:

Very intriguing though , and anxious to see this in action in the near future . It definitely sounds like it will more often than not be a notable improvement.

On board and using this for 3 days and it's the most civilized elevator service I've seen on a ship.

I agree , and good to hear it is as good as it sounds

[RedIguana]

2 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

Sounds great for teen's, elevator bingo. Just get into any door that opens and guess where you end up. Get off and do it again.  I think I can get to the pool deck in six tries, oh yeh, I can do it in 5.

 

2 hours ago, jam19872016 said:

That actually sounds like fun. Can adults play too?

Oh yeah adults can play. Team A drinks if you land on an even floor, Team B drinks if you land on an odd floor. Introducing Elevator Pong! Fun for all those over 21!

 

😈

[Starry Eyes]

2 hours ago, schooner_Drinker said:

Some folks are just terrified of change and new stuff (well it’s actually 5/6 years old

I think many of us are asking questions because we are curious people who like to understand how systems work.  I didn’t notice any posts here that suggest the individual is “terrified of change.” 

[LobsterStalker]

2 hours ago, schooner_Drinker said:

You have a valid point, and there will be busy times -not disagreeing with that.

And there will always be that one who jumps the line.

 

When do you sail on ICON?

I look forward to your experiences with the New system 😎 

 

Nancy 

Your condescending sarcasm throughout this thread is a bit much

 

[SUgwoz]

13 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

I think many of us are asking questions because we are curious people who like to understand how systems work.  I didn’t notice any posts here that suggest the individual is “terrified of change.” 

May not be terrified of change. However, there does seem to be a trend of negative statements or bringing up exploits. While those that have actually used the system in other ships and buildings have mostly positive remarks and refuting the negative statements. 

 

I would be a lot more concerned if the people that actually used the elevator system was negative. 

[jenncren]

Our courthouse had used this technology for 10 years now, works great. Handles an influx of people all showing up for an 8:30 docket beautifully. Technology and change can be a good thing if one is willing to adapt, sometimes you just have to experience it to understand.

[Ozark_Kid]

This is from a person that cruised Icon earlier in the week.  She was in a wheelchair.

 

"The elevator works fine, and after you get used to it, I think it is better than the old style.  They even have it set to work for blind individuals."

 

This is from someone currently on Icon.

 

"The new elevators are fantastic.  No more throngs of people pushing their way into each elevator then stopping at every floor.  The most stops I have made is 2.  Waiting an extra minute or two to get an elevator that then makes few stops is definitely a plus."

[ONECRUISER]

10 hours ago, schooner_Drinker said:

Here is an example on MSC

What Royal have copied 

 

 

Smart Elevator Tech has been around for years, 15+ that I know of. Though doesn't effect me, except for couple times last Fall traveling with my Grand Daughter I haven't been on Ship Elevator in 23+ yrs

Edited January 26 by ONECRUISER

[wolfcathorse]

the Marriott on Canal St in NOLA has these elevators, that's my first experience with them in 2015. It was fantastic