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Watching Deals and Sales On Oceania Cruises for Sport


Sthrngary
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I have a cruise already booked for the Oceania Vista, October 13, 2025, for 10-days in the Mediterranean.  I booked it on my last cruise on the Oceania Riviera during our cruise on November 2023.  Fun to watch how things happen, and although in life, there are NO guarantees, it seem on some level predictable.  I am NO expert but it sure seems like the Oceania Sales happen in a certain way/pattern.  We guest simply book a cruise, hang back and wait for a sale that might or might not happen.  I personally have lots of time before my next cruise happens so this is a long-term study for me. 

 

What I Was Interested In Seeing:

 

  1. Similar Itinerary, Ship, Days and Time of the Year:  I noticed, if I were doing a similar Itinerary, on the Vista, for 10 days in, a similar time period October 2024; I could save some money.  This is important to me because I could assume, we all know what assuming means, that as my October 2025 cruise comes closer, a Oceania Sale could positively effect me. 
  2. Ships and Fares:  No secret here.  I like Ocean Vessels like the Riviera, Marina and the Vista. All will have a few years on them before I cruised them or will cruise them.  When ever a Cruise Brand has a brand new ship which the Vista was last year, the prices are always higher.  Now, the Vista is higher the the gap is much less.  The Riviera which I cruised after the Refurbishment was really lovely.  The Marina will be Refurbished soon and I would expect the same quality.  The Vista will go back for warranty work as I understand it after the cruise I am booked on in October 2025.  The best deals NOW is the Riviera and Marina.  
  3. SimplyMore Program:  As most of us know already, the Exclusive Excursion On-Board-Credit (OBC) came down as of the first of the year.  For my cruise we got, $800.00.  The similar cruise for this year and in the future are currently $600.00.  I can see in the future, fares staying the same and perks like OBC/OBC for Excursions becoming the playing card of choice for Oceania.  I have not inside information but seems like that strategy cost the brand less then reducing fare. I hope I am wrong on this. 
  4. Effect of Upgrading My Stateroom Early: I booked with some benefits while on my last cruise.  I booked two Concierge (A4). At the time, my concern was my friends joining us for the second time and their budget.  What I really wanted was a Penthouse (PH2). Recently I had my Cruise Travel Agent take me from a (A4) to a (PH2).  I wanted to see if I lost my perks, amenities, and or discount for early booking now.  I did not.  I got the all.  I was happy and impressed that it was a seamless process with my agent. For me, this is good information for the future.  We will see if and when Oceania has some decent sales, this holds true in the future. My fingers are crossed. 
  5. Timing Seems to be Everything:  With my first sailing in November 2023, it seemed clear.  If you booked a Mediterranean Cruise in November over October, you got a better fare. That made since to me because the weather is colder in November than October so October would be more desirable. Sales were better in November then October for my first cruise also.  My issue this upcoming cruise was we like the Itinerary better in October.  We will let the cards fall as they will.  We have "Realistic Expectations". 
  6. Effect on my Air Fare: I have already taken the Oceania Air off my booking.  The reduction was $1,400.00 per person plus an addition $99.00 each way to leave from my Home Base, Birmingham, AL.  That is a total of $1,598.00.  As I did for my first cruise, so far, I shows I can book Fully Refundable Coach fairs on Delta Airlines for less then $1,598.00.  I have four (4) very valuable Global Upgrade Certificates in waiting for when my airfares become available.  My fares become available, 330 days before the return flight.  I am now studying everything I can learn about how to upgrade my "Fully Refundable Coach Fare" to "Delta One Business Class" with those upgrade certificates.  If you think cruise fares are confusing, air fare with upgrade certificates if far more unsettling. Wish me luck.  PointGuy, I am reading everything you ever wrote on the subject.  

 

My Conclusion:  Sale or NO sale.  We would never have booked the cruise we did if the itinerary was not right or we could not afford the fare we booked at. If and when any sale happens or does not happen, we know the rules and can live with them. "Realistic Expectations" is my mantra. It applies to sales, food/dining, port cancelations, personalized service, bar service and everything else on any cruise with any brand.  

 

Just my two cents and I am sticking with it.

 

"Cruise well and enjoy every moment."

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39 minutes ago, FetaCheese said:

@Sthrngary

 

Assuming you paid for your upgrade.  Please explain how O calculated price differential.  Current fare difference, or some other way?  Reassuring that O was able to retain your Onboard booking incentives. 

 

Thanks

@FetaCheese Hello friend.  Let me say first, LOL.  Yes, I paid every penny but I do understand your reference.  On to your question. 

 

Allow me to explain below:

  1. 5% Off Fare for Booking It So Long In Advance:  This benefit changed at the first of the year.  That said, when I went from A4 to PH2, I got the 5% off as I would have if I booked it originally on the ship.  I was thrilled. 
  2. On-Board-Credit(OBC):  It was $250.00 per stateroom.  When I upgraded, it was still $250.00 per stateroom. 
  3. Extra Money Off:  They gave $400.00 off the fare on-board for booking an A4.  It was $600.00 for a PH2.  They honored the extra money off.
  4. $800.00 OBC for Excursions for SimplyMore:  If you booked the same cruise today, it would be $600.  Yet they honored $800.00.  I was again thrilled. 
  5. Changing to A Different Cruise:  I have a one time exception if I want to book another different cruise on Oceania.  Going from A4 to PH2 did not effect this in the future.  The opinion is still there. 
  6. Gratuities Complementary from my Travel Agent: My gratuities when up because it cost more when in a PH category due to the butler.  No issue and I was credited for the PH gratuities.

Now if Oceania has an upcoming sale, it many NOT be compatible with the deal I got.  If that happens, the math will win.  Hope this answers your questions.  Thank you for asking.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

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We booked directly with O. I'm wondering since your TA gave you complimentary gratuities, do you have any knowledge IF the O agent would/could do the same?

 O is saving $ that is not going to a TA by my booking directly with them.

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27 minutes ago, ec6393 said:

We booked directly with O. I'm wondering since your TA gave you complimentary gratuities, do you have any knowledge IF the O agent would/could do the same?

 O is saving $ that is not going to a TA by my booking directly with them.

Thanks

@ec6393 I have no idea. Ask Oceania.  If you just booked it, have Travel Agent take over the booking.  Sorry, I just don't know the exact answer.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

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58 minutes ago, Sthrngary said:

@FetaCheese Hello friend.  Let me say first, LOL.  Yes, I paid every penny but I do understand your reference.  On to your question. 

 

Allow me to explain below:

  1. 5% Off Fare for Booking It So Long In Advance:  This benefit changed at the first of the year.  That said, when I went from A4 to PH2, I got the 5% off as I would have if I booked it originally on the ship.  I was thrilled. 
  2. On-Board-Credit(OBC):  It was $250.00 per stateroom.  When I upgraded, it was still $250.00 per stateroom. 
  3. Extra Money Off:  They gave $400.00 off the fare on-board for booking an A4.  It was $600.00 for a PH2.  They honored the extra money off.
  4. $800.00 OBC for Excursions for SimplyMore:  If you booked the same cruise today, it would be $600.  Yet they honored $800.00.  I was again thrilled. 
  5. Changing to A Different Cruise:  I have a one time exception if I want to book another different cruise on Oceania.  Going from A4 to PH2 did not effect this in the future.  The opinion is still there. 
  6. Gratuities Complementary from my Travel Agent: My gratuities when up because it cost more when in a PH category due to the butler.  No issue and I was credited for the PH gratuities.

Now if Oceania has an upcoming sale, it many NOT be compatible with the deal I got.  If that happens, the math will win.  Hope this answers your questions.  Thank you for asking.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment.

Were the gratuities from your TA or were they available for that particular itinerary? We looked at 7 cruises before we selected one with the itinerary we liked best. I did not even notice that 3 of the 7 included gratuities. The TA we "selected" does not offer gratuities or 7-10% off, rebate, check before or after, or "whatever. This is our 2nd with O, we loved the first one. Hoping that by next year maybe paid gratuities will show up on our itinerary.

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7 minutes ago, SATaxman said:

Were the gratuities from your TA or were they available for that particular itinerary? We looked at 7 cruises before we selected one with the itinerary we liked best. I did not even notice that 3 of the 7 included gratuities. The TA we "selected" does not offer gratuities or 7-10% off, rebate, check before or after, or "whatever. This is our 2nd with O, we loved the first one. Hoping that by next year maybe paid gratuities will show up on our itinerary.

@SATaxman Boy did you open up Pandora's Box on the 7-10%, LMAO.  That is on you.  The bigger agencies offer this.  What surprised me was, when I booked onboard, they asked if I wanted to book with my current Travel Agency.  I said YES.  It was automatic but I had to choose.  AMX perks or Gratuities.  Can't have both.  I did the math and did the Gratuities. 

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

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@Sthrngary

Gary, you really have passed Oceania 101 with an A+ and appear headed for Oceania Grad School, and Oceania 201 class. We have been sailing with O since 2007, booking with a TA or directly with an Oceania Rep in Miami or wherever they are located. DIYers can do their own thing but I can say using a TA is by far more reassuring and beneficial. A phone call to O in Miami just does not get the results I can get with a Connoisseur Club or top echelon agency.  
 

We ALWAYS book one of more cruises on board and use our One Swap feature if we find something that really strikes our fancy. We have always gotten our On Board Booking benefits added to the swapped booking, just like your experience. If we made a swap, in some cases that PH upgrade added even more benefits. When we hit the Silver level, that automatic Free PPG was even more beneficial. You will get there 😇👍.  
 

Here is another thought to tuck away. We learned to always pay attention to the cruise before or after our intended cruise because sometimes that next Sale allowed us to create an amazing B2B or 2B sailing at a ridiculously low combined price. Hey, I’m retired and I no longer have to beg for more time off, just tell my DW to pack a little more 🤪👍

A couple times that Mediterranean cruise in October or November was combined with an economical Transatlantic and no long international flight home. Those Biz Class Air prices now are insane unless you have an unlimited supply of air miles. Gee, a flight from Miami to Birmingham  can’t be that much 😇🤞🛳️💰

Love the Points Guy and have added that reading to my personal Oceania Grad School program.

Mauibabes

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9 hours ago, mauibabes said:

@Sthrngary

Gary, you really have passed Oceania 101 with an A+ and appear headed for Oceania Grad School, and Oceania 201 class. We have been sailing with O since 2007, booking with a TA or directly with an Oceania Rep in Miami or wherever they are located. DIYers can do their own thing but I can say using a TA is by far more reassuring and beneficial. A phone call to O in Miami just does not get the results I can get with a Connoisseur Club or top echelon agency.  
 

We ALWAYS book one of more cruises on board and use our One Swap feature if we find something that really strikes our fancy. We have always gotten our On Board Booking benefits added to the swapped booking, just like your experience. If we made a swap, in some cases that PH upgrade added even more benefits. When we hit the Silver level, that automatic Free PPG was even more beneficial. You will get there 😇👍.  
 

Here is another thought to tuck away. We learned to always pay attention to the cruise before or after our intended cruise because sometimes that next Sale allowed us to create an amazing B2B or 2B sailing at a ridiculously low combined price. Hey, I’m retired and I no longer have to beg for more time off, just tell my DW to pack a little more 🤪👍

A couple times that Mediterranean cruise in October or November was combined with an economical Transatlantic and no long international flight home. Those Biz Class Air prices now are insane unless you have an unlimited supply of air miles. Gee, a flight from Miami to Birmingham  can’t be that much 😇🤞🛳️💰

Love the Points Guy and have added that reading to my personal Oceania Grad School program.

Mauibabes

@mauibabes Wow, and thank you.  I take my research and post seriously and hope those that read them, will receive some benefit. Posts like yours, make me feel good about investing the time because you are indeed a "Graduate Student in Oceania Cruises".

 

Everything I attempt to learn about with regards to cruise brands tie back to "Four Day Music Festivals".  Many years ago, I was on the road away from home for 48 weeks a year.  I was home every week from late Friday Night to mid-day Sunday getting right back on a flight out.  I would wave to my wife and friends in my pool drinking Long Island Ice Teas as I drove to the airport on Sunday.  I did this for 3+ decades. One weekend at home over a wonderful Meat Loaf and Mashed Potato dinner, I had an acute stroke. That will wake you up to reality real quickly.  BTW, I am fine now with a bit of memory loss over and above just being in my 60's.

 

I was a professional musician from my early teens to going to college.  Music was important to me.  After the Stoke, I retired and created the "Summer of Music".  It started with a four day music festival called "The Hangout Music Festival".  It was located on the beach, off the gulf shore of Alabama.  It's tickets went from Standard, VIP, to Super VIP.  The young people did the standard staying on the beach with no real shelter for four days.  The 30 somethings did the VIP that has some amentias, shelter and a pool on the beach.  Then the 55+ crowd did the Super VIP.  Shelter, full bar, catered food, hot tubs and everything that ever one else had.  The problem was no reviews for Super VIP's, only marketing information and the price was really high.  Hard to make a decision not knowing all the details and amenities.  I did it anyway and then wrote the book on how to squeeze ever once of value from the "Super VIP ticket". I went for the next four years and bought my tickets last minute on Craigslist for sometimes half price.  That was the origin of my approach I now use for cruising.  

 

I used the same approach for the Bonnaroo Music Festive (with Artist Wrist Band Access), Sea Breeze Jazz Festiva (VIP Access), and many more.  Then I did the same approach for the NCL Haven, Celebrity Retreat and Crystal Cruises (Luxury Cruise Test Drive). When I choose Oceania Cruises, all that experience was leveraged.  I share this to again thank you for your kind words.  Also, to emphasize we as consumers need this kind of information to help us to make good business decisions.  Marketing departments "Over Promise and Under Deliver".  This cruise brand approach of Over Promise leads to some guest expecting perfection causing posted topics that start with, "I will never cruise that brand again!!"

 

Oceania is obviously not perfect.  Nor was the NCL Haven, Celebrity Retreat, or Crystal Cruises. However if you knew the good, bad and ugly prior to making the decision, you would have "Realistic Expectations" and your over all experience was much better. 

 

So I am on to the "Oceania Cruises Graduate School".  Happy to pay the tuition and to be mentored by kind folks like you.  Thanks again.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

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We cruise entirely for itineraries while also taking into account prices. The absolute FUN part of the "sport" is seeing what happens over time, as you "use" sales to improve your situation...

 

So for our recent 11/9-19/2023 cruise on Riviera:

 

1. I STARTED out in a C (7080) for $1994 PP. Booked 5 Apr 22. When they opened.

2. Then moved to a B4 (7107) for $2249 PP using a Memorial Day Sale. Booked 25 May 22.

3. Then moved to a B3 (7036) for $1749 PP using the Extraordinary Savings Sale. Booked 12 Apr 23.

 

And the ESS got us $300 OBC each.

 

So here we paid $250 LESS for a better cabin using sales.

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16 hours ago, Sthrngary said:

@ec6393 I have no idea. Ask Oceania.  If you just booked it, have Travel Agent take over the booking.  Sorry, I just don't know the exact answer.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

Thank you.

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Just an FYI.  There is a well-known TA (I assume I can't mention the name) that is staging what they call an "Ambassador Cruise" on the Vista for Nov. 19, 2025.  In additional to the current perks offered by Oceania (free air, transfers, $400 ShoreEx credit, etc.), they're offering 5% back in OBC, free gratuities, free upgrade to Prestige Beverage Package, and several private events on board.  It's a transatlantic out of Barcelona.  After subtracting out the value of the perks, I figure we're paying around $1,500 pp for the actual 14 day cruise.  Sale ends on 2/9/24.

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2 minutes ago, FredZiffle said:

... they're offering 5% back in OBC, free gratuities, free upgrade to Prestige Beverage Package, and several private events on board.  It's a transatlantic out of Barcelona.  After subtracting out the value of the perks, I figure we're paying around $1,500 pp for the actual 14 day cruise....

The price starts with the actual cost of the cabin.

 

Those "perks" have a pennies on the dollar value in relation to the cold hard price of the cabin. Thus, SINCE you can bring your own alcohol on board, including beer & hard liquor, how much is a "drinks package" really "worth"? The gratuities is in addition to the cost of the cabin, not a subtraction from the cost, so all you saved was an additional charge, not a reduction in the price of the cabin. As for "OBC", when the cost of things like massages is elevated so high, hard to say you're "saving" anything. If I inflate some price by 200% and then give you a 50% "discount", what real "savings" are you receiving? As for "free air", if you can get the cruise at a lower price by doing your own air, the air isn't "free". So much marketing fluff from O about things being "2 for 1" or "free".

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6 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

The price starts with the actual cost of the cabin.

 

Those "perks" have a pennies on the dollar value in relation to the cold hard price of the cabin. Thus, SINCE you can bring your own alcohol on board, including beer & hard liquor, how much is a "drinks package" really "worth"? The gratuities is in addition to the cost of the cabin, not a subtraction from the cost, so all you saved was an additional charge, not a reduction in the price of the cabin. As for "OBC", when the cost of things like massages is elevated so high, hard to say you're "saving" anything. If I inflate some price by 200% and then give you a 50% "discount", what real "savings" are you receiving? As for "free air", if you can get the cruise at a lower price by doing your own air, the air isn't "free". So much marketing fluff from O about things being "2 for 1" or "free".

@MEFIowa Your examples are very valid.  I have literally watch you gain some unbelievable deals. Strategically you approach and quest for the best of local Wine/Spirits is a Graduate School venture and you do it the best I have ever scene.  For those that have the same goal as you do, you are the "Yoda" of this approach.  The force is strong with you.

 

Many others goals are different.  For them, they need an equally strong approach.  For some but obviously not for all, the value is in a Penthouse or above.  Their strategy starts there.  Others myself included will ONLY do the Prestige Drink Package and still go searching for wine and spirits in the more interesting ports. We know that does not provide the best value.  We just like it so we pay for it.  

 

There is an old saying I remember from my first job at 20. 

 

"If the value of the product or service exceeds the guest expectations by one penny;

then and only then will the guest purchase."

 

Reading into to that quote, only the guest can establish what value is to them and every guest is different. The deal outlined by @FredZiffle is something that really interest me but I can not leverage it.  My wife will not allow more than one serious cruise for a maximum of 10 days every other year.  So I see the value but will not take advantage of it.  Value is relative but it is lots of funny being surprised if you are already booked on a cruise.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

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12 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

The price starts with the actual cost of the cabin.

 

Those "perks" have a pennies on the dollar value in relation to the cold hard price of the cabin. Thus, SINCE you can bring your own alcohol on board, including beer & hard liquor, how much is a "drinks package" really "worth"? The gratuities is in addition to the cost of the cabin, not a subtraction from the cost, so all you saved was an additional charge, not a reduction in the price of the cabin. As for "OBC", when the cost of things like massages is elevated so high, hard to say you're "saving" anything. If I inflate some price by 200% and then give you a 50% "discount", what real "savings" are you receiving? As for "free air", if you can get the cruise at a lower price by doing your own air, the air isn't "free". So much marketing fluff from O about things being "2 for 1" or "free".

Sorry, I should have explained my calculations a bit better.  Look at it from the standpoint of booking a cruise on a main-stream line.  Assuming I had booked this cruise for $1,500, I would be paying for my own air ($1,200 minimum at current prices), transfers ($100), grats ($280), drink package upgrade ($500) and $900 in shore excursions. Since $500 of that $900 is refundable OBC, I don't even have to spend all of it. That's an additional $3,000 on top of my base fare of $1,500, which equals what I'm paying pp for this luxury line.

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13 minutes ago, FredZiffle said:

... Assuming I had booked this cruise for $1,500....

No need for assumptions, which is why I provide real data (cabin cost, dates booked, etc.). What are you currently set to pay for what cabin level you actually booked?

 

I paid $1899 PP for a 10-night on Riviera 10/30-11/9 in an A3 and only $1749 PP for another 10 nights on her in a B3. We do our own airfare, major excursions, and alcohol. So, the total PP just for my cabins over 20 nights was $3,648 (or $182.40 PP PN).

 

AND we had $725 OBC PP (e.g., $125 was from O for changing embarkation from Venice to Trieste but we also had $300 PP on each leg of the cruise.

 

But I know the cost of the cruise is all that I pay, including cabin, airfare, alcohol, excursions, etc.

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11 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

No need for assumptions, which is why I provide real data (cabin cost, dates booked, etc.). What are you currently set to pay for what cabin level you actually booked?

 

I paid $1899 PP for a 10-night on Riviera 10/30-11/9 in an A3 and only $1749 PP for another 10 nights on her in a B3. We do our own airfare, major excursions, and alcohol. So, the total PP just for my cabins over 20 nights was $3,648 (or $182.40 PP PN).

 

AND we had $725 OBC PP (e.g., $125 was from O for changing embarkation from Venice to Trieste but we also had $300 PP on each leg of the cruise.

 

But I know the cost of the cruise is all that I pay, including cabin, airfare, alcohol, excursions, etc.

I almost always do my own air and excursions as well.  In fact, I could have booked this cruise sans air and saved $900 pp, but having looked at prices for two flights, I couldn't come close to that figure on my own.  You need to compare apples to apples.  How much was your total expense after adding in airfare, gratuities, excursions and alcohol?  To answer your question, this cruise in a B3 is $4,600 pp. for 14 days.

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@Sthrngary   I agree when you say "Timing seems to be everything".  Absolutely.

 

I am booked on Nautica, Boston to Montreal, September 25.  The same cruise is also sailing 3+ weeks later.  The price difference is significant in some of the cabin categories. The later cruise is included in the New Year's Sale and the earlier one is not.  We would rather pay more and have a much better chance of seeing the fall colors and enjoy what is likely to be more pleasant weather.  The fall colors will be gone on the later cruise.  It looks like a lot of people feel the same way because the earlier cruise is showing waitlisted in many cabin categories and the later cruise has availability in every category. 

 

Regarding air, we always choose the credit and book our own air.  Over the years, I know that we have definitely saved a significant amount of money doing this but everyone should do their own math and decide what's best for them. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2/8/2024 at 6:19 AM, MEFIowa said:

We cruise entirely for itineraries while also taking into account prices. The absolute FUN part of the "sport" is seeing what happens over time, as you "use" sales to improve your situation...

 

So for our recent 11/9-19/2023 cruise on Riviera:

 

1. I STARTED out in a C (7080) for $1994 PP. Booked 5 Apr 22. When they opened.

2. Then moved to a B4 (7107) for $2249 PP using a Memorial Day Sale. Booked 25 May 22.

3. Then moved to a B3 (7036) for $1749 PP using the Extraordinary Savings Sale. Booked 12 Apr 23.

 

And the ESS got us $300 OBC each.

 

So here we paid $250 LESS for a better cabin using sales.

How do you find out about the sales?

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On 2/7/2024 at 2:34 PM, Sthrngary said:

@ec6393 I have no idea. Ask Oceania.  If you just booked it, have Travel Agent take over the booking.  Sorry, I just don't know the exact answer.

 

Cruise well and enjoy every moment. 

I have an O buddy. First time around I called them and I still talk to him about a future cruise. He said that he gets "credit" but not money and is quite happy to transfer to a TA. So I do.

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12 hours ago, Europe and beyond said:

How do you find out about the sales?

Start by paying attention to posts here AND go to O's web site. A new sale should be starting March 1st and the New Year Sale ends 2/29. Then see if any cruise you like is on it or if a cruise you've booked is on it.

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3 hours ago, MEFIowa said:

Start by paying attention to posts here AND go to O's web site. A new sale should be starting March 1st and the New Year Sale ends 2/29. Then see if any cruise you like is on it or if a cruise you've booked is on it.


Do new sales in the US always come straight after a sale finishes? 

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1 hour ago, Vallesan said:

Do new sales in the US always come straight after a sale finishes? 

They did in 2023. I created an OP that listed all the 2023 sales. One right after the other. Usually a month long, sometimes two. The current New Year Sale ends 2/29. I'd expect a new sale on 3/1.

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9 minutes ago, MEFIowa said:

They did in 2023. I created an OP that listed all the 2023 sales. One right after the other. Usually a month long, sometimes two. The current New Year Sale ends 2/29. I'd expect a new sale on 3/1.


That may  be only in the US. In the UK we do get sales  but not one immediately after the other. Things are different here for many reasons. We always pay far more than you do in in the US.

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55 minutes ago, Vallesan said:


That may  be only in the US. In the UK we do get sales  but not one immediately after the other. Things are different here for many reasons. We always pay far more than you do in in the US.

I Understand that UK residents pay fares with grats included.  Curious. Do you know if a UK resident is able to book with a USA TA, and pay some fares as USA residents?.  Grats are then added onto ones account, which can adjusted up or down.

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