Passenger Safety: Crew Members in Pax Staterooms

[New2cruise2022]

6 minutes ago, 1emerald1 said:

Thank you for reporting this to Corporate.  About 14 or so years ago I took my two daughters and a friend, ages ranging from 18 to almost 21 on a Carribean cruise.  The 30 something DJ was stalking and preying on the friend.  He chastised me for being overprotective, as I never let then out of my sight, and I told him that I knew what guys like him were all about, etc etc. He finally caught the friend alone and propositioned her.  Once she saw for herself what he was all about she was shocked and disgusted and put him in his place.  That was the end of that.

 

I know that Princess has a zero-tolerance policy of crew socializing with passengers, but it most certainly does happen.

In the case of the story you related, passengers shouldn’t have to put people in their place and make judgment calls about staff behavior. This should be taught and handled by corporate. 

[EDDY0827]

Anyone stop to think that maybe the staff member and the passengers were related??

Brother/ sisters or cousins or uncle and nieces? If this staff member was doing something that breaks the rules, I doubt that you would have seen it as often as you or your sons did.

There could be other reasons for this besides nefarious ones.

[wolfie11]

Entertainers (singers and dancers) are onboard for a several month contract and are considered crew.  Crew can fraternize with each other.  Headliner entertainers and guest lecturers are passengers.  Crew are forbidden from fraternizing with passengers.

[memoak]

9 minutes ago, wolfie11 said:

Entertainers (singers and dancers) are onboard for a several month contract and are considered crew.  Crew can fraternize with each other.  Headliner entertainers and guest lecturers are passengers.  Crew are forbidden from fraternizing with passengers.

Guest entertainers are also considered passengers and usually have cabins in passenger areas. In the past it was very common to have relations with passengers and in fact all entertainment staff used to invite us down to crew areas. About 15 years ago we were on a ship where a young lady who had had too much to drink and fell down a crew staircase trying to find someone. Later all policies changed

[New2cruise2022]

18 minutes ago, EDDY0827 said:

Anyone stop to think that maybe the staff member and the passengers were related??

Brother/ sisters or cousins or uncle and nieces? If this staff member was doing something that breaks the rules, I doubt that you would have seen it as often as you or your sons did.

There could be other reasons for this besides nefarious ones.

Asked my son and confirmed. He spent hours across the week. Other than being from the same country, there was nothing to connect them as family or friends. They met on the cruise. 

[New2cruise2022]

The other reason the ages matter and why we decided to share in an open forum, is because we are helping families with both teenage and young adult children understand the rules and the culture of a cruise line, be that Princess or others. We felt this experience was surprising enough (given our belief that this behavior isn’t the standard for Princess) that it might benefit someone contemplating booking a cruise. 
 

While Princess may be legally bound not to share specifics about this matter or the crew involved, the brand could benefit from making their culture better known. 

[memoak]

I have a friend who was a bartender who met a passenger and then married her   What some people are calling stalking also takes place on college campuses and local restaurants 

[Outerdog]

1 hour ago, WonderMan3 said:

Not sure why the ages of everyone involved keeps being emphasized here. The female passengers are adult women not girls. The crew member in question’s age is irrelevant; his behavior going to a passenger’s cabin was inappropriate regardless of age.

 

This is the correct answer, assuming of course that this "senior staff member" is crew subject to the same fraternization rules as all crew, and not some entertainment dude with different rules. I've heard various takes on whether or not entertainment are actually crew.

 

Not sure about OP's assertion of "grooming tactics". These are adults we're talking about.

[Cruise Raider]

14 minutes ago, memoak said:

I have a friend who was a bartender who met a passenger and then married her   What some people are calling stalking also takes place on college campuses and local restaurants 

Thank you!  We’ve made very good friends with crew and entertainers and would consider good friends enough to them welcome to our homes.  I can tell you are on the Discovery and 18 years of age is old enough to make voting decisions in the US, so they can certainly discern if they want to make friends with someone they’ve met onboard.  
It’s just too bad the OP has made a stink about this as we’ve also invited entertainers to our cabin, with permission, of course.  There always have had to be an array of people of both sexes at the cabin parties for that visit to be approved.  I fear permission will now not be granted in the future because an adult (18+) didn’t make a wise choice.  So sad for us that we won’t have that choice in the future.  
 

[New2cruise2022]

9 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

Thank you!  We’ve made very good friends with crew and entertainers and would consider good friends enough to them welcome to our homes.  I can tell you are on the Discovery and 18 years of age is old enough to make voting decisions in the US, so they can certainly discern if they want to make friends with someone they’ve met onboard.  
It’s just too bad the OP has made a stink about this as we’ve also invited entertainers to our cabin, with permission, of course.  There always have had to be an array of people of both sexes at the cabin parties for that visit to be approved.  I fear permission will now not be granted in the future because an adult (18+) didn’t make a wise choice.  So sad for us that we won’t have that choice in the future.  
 

It wasn’t an entertainer, it was a staff member. 
 

We didn’t make a stink. We shared the experience and asked for insight into the culture and rules for this behavior. 
 

This is also about Princess having information to protect the brand from lawsuits or potential problems. It is more for Princess to benefit from this. We are very big Princess fans and want them to succeed. This wasn’t a drive by. 

[Lady Arwen]

29 minutes ago, memoak said:

I have a friend who was a bartender who met a passenger and then married her   What some people are calling stalking also takes place on college campuses and local restaurants 

 My niece was onboard HAL Eurodam 5 years ago and met a young man who was one of the entertainment staff.  She was 27 and he 28.  They hit it off and became friends during the cruise.  They corresponded by email until his contract was completed.  My niece met him at his home in Amsterdam and they had a brief affair.  
Both are married to other people now but they remain friends.  She remembers her time onboard as one of the most exciting things she has ever experienced.  It would be a shame if fraternization  between consenting adults was not permitted.

[New2cruise2022]

14 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

 

This is the correct answer, assuming of course that this "senior staff member" is crew subject to the same fraternization rules as all crew, and not some entertainment dude with different rules. I've heard various takes on whether or not entertainment are actually crew.

 

Not sure about OP's assertion of "grooming tactics". These are adults we're talking about.

Grooming is not reserved for children. In fact grooming is used with adults regularly. They are behaviors used to attract, gain trust, or gain favor. 
 

Grooming is more than candy and money. Grooming is opportunity and access. A job, alcohol that is otherwise prohibited, vacations and other opportunities. 
 

Grooming is contextual and a state of mind. 

[New2cruise2022]

16 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

Thank you!  We’ve made very good friends with crew and entertainers and would consider good friends enough to them welcome to our homes.  I can tell you are on the Discovery and 18 years of age is old enough to make voting decisions in the US, so they can certainly discern if they want to make friends with someone they’ve met onboard.  
It’s just too bad the OP has made a stink about this as we’ve also invited entertainers to our cabin, with permission, of course.  There always have had to be an array of people of both sexes at the cabin parties for that visit to be approved.  I fear permission will now not be granted in the future because an adult (18+) didn’t make a wise choice.  So sad for us that we won’t have that choice in the future.  
 

If Princess is ok with fraternization between staff and passengers and ok with them providing alcohol and being in their staterooms, that is their business decision to build a brand that way. 
 

The point of posting was to better understand what the culture is. Your post shares a perspective that you believe it is fine. And if it is, then people can decide if that is something they welcome or want. 
 

The reason most rules — like no staff/crew being allowed to fraternize or hang out in a state room — is to protect passengers and staff/crew. It isn’t about control of taking away choice. It is reducing opportunities for situations to arise that give lawsuits traction. 

[memoak]

5 minutes ago, New2cruise2022 said:

It wasn’t an entertainer, it was a staff member. 
 

We didn’t make a stink. We shared the experience and asked for insight into the culture and rules for this behavior. 
 

This is also about Princess having information to protect the brand from lawsuits or potential problems. It is more for Princess to benefit from this. We are very big Princess fans and want them to succeed. This wasn’t a drive by. 

Still we are talking about grown people who are all expected to be responsible for their own actions not children. When I was 22 I had a 6 month fling with a 35 year old woman should someone have “saved” me from that ?  As a 43 year old I had a shipboard fling with a 25 year old entertainment staff member.  Again we are adults and should be treated as such. 

[New2cruise2022]

Just now, memoak said:

Still we are talking about grown people who are all expected to be responsible for their own actions not children. When I was 22 I had a 6 month fling with a 35 year old woman should someone have “saved” me from that ?  As a 43 year old I had a shipboard fling with a 25 year old entertainment staff member.  Again we are adults and should be treated as such. 

If you and @Cruise Raider are correct and this isn’t a big deal, then it will fall by the wayside and nothing will happen. So, no harm, no foul. We didn’t make any assertions or conclusions about the event. We shared it with Princess so their skilled HR professionals can look at it — with knowledge of the protocols and procedures in place — and make a smart decision. 

[Sprocket]

8 minutes ago, Lady Arwen said:

 My niece was onboard HAL Eurodam 5 years ago and met a young man who was one of the entertainment staff.  She was 27 and he 28.  They hit it off and became friends during the cruise.  They corresponded by email until his contract was completed.  My niece met him at his home in Amsterdam and they had a brief affair.  
Both are married to other people now but they remain friends.  She remembers her time onboard as one of the most exciting things she has ever experienced.  It would be a shame if fraternization  between consenting adults was not permitted.

 

My former sister-in-law (they were already divorced) went on a Princess cruise with her parents and ended up marrying her cabin steward.  No idea if they're still married but it probably happens more than we know.

[New2cruise2022]

There are plenty of happy instances of people meeting on a cruise and ending up together. But it is naive to ignore that safeguards should be in place. Regardless of age. This isn’t about underage risk. It is about any age risk. 
 

While still a small percentage, reports of sexual assaults were up last year across the cruise industry. It isn’t being a prude to recognize this and want protections put in place. 

 

The exposure to civil liability is enormous for cruise lines. While it is a nice fairytale to talk about love found between passenger and crew, the risk exists for it to go horribly wrong. That is why so many zero tolerance policies are written regarding some behaviors. 
 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2024/01/31/cruise-sexual-assaults-rose-2023/72409442007/

 

[startedwithamouse]

I seem to remember crew are not supposed to be in guest cabins - this may be listed in the previous patters, prior to the pandemic. 

[cheetosrevil]

Read all the comments, but I don't see any mention of the OP's statement of, "The women are both from the UK and the under 21 woman lamented that despite having a drink package, the crew on Discovery Princess would not serve her alcohol because she was “underage”. "

 

Did Princess sell an underage person a drink package? That's another question in my mind. Alcohol or soda? Not clear to me.

[startedwithamouse]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

Guest entertainers are also considered passengers and usually have cabins in passenger areas. In the past it was very common to have relations with passengers and in fact all entertainment staff used to invite us down to crew areas. About 15 years ago we were on a ship where a young lady who had had too much to drink and fell down a crew staircase trying to find someone. Later all policies changed

Guest entertainers on Discovery have cabins on the crew decks/areas. 

Edited March 11 by startedwithamouse

[startedwithamouse]

2 minutes ago, memoak said:

Most of the crew members I know have plenty of alcohol in their cabins or they can purchase from the crew bar for a pittance

True. 

 

The champagne he has free access to.  

 

Doubt that's his drink of choice in his spare time.

Edited March 11 by startedwithamouse

[memoak]

6 minutes ago, startedwithamouse said:

True. 

 

The champagne he has free access to.  

 

Doubt that's his drink of choice in his spare time.

That is a pretty big assumption on your part

[cruisinsince75]

I learned a lesson several years ago about jumping to conclusions.  Ok maybe I've had to learn it a few times.  There could have been something else going on or maybe not.  Either way it is up to the cruise line to handle it properly.

 

We were on a cruise years back when I spotted someone that I had worked with maybe 10 years earlier.  I said, that looks like so and so, but neither of us were sure.  I wanted to go over and say hi, but he was hanging out with this 20 y.o. something girl that was clearly not his wife.  I saw him hanging out with her in the bars and dancing with her, and sometimes at dinner and a few times out at the pool.  He had his arm around her, even when she was with her friends.  He never acknowledged me, so we just kept to ourselves. 

 

When I got back to work, my boss asked how the cruise was.  I said, it was great, but I thought I had seen this so and so onboard, but wasn't sure. To which he answered, it was him.  His daughter is a dancer on the ship and he went to see her.  The wife couldn't leave the business, so she is going in a couple of weeks.  I am sure glad I kept my mouth shut!    

Edited March 12 by cruisinsince75
missing word

[New2cruise2022]

2 minutes ago, cruisinsince75 said:

I learned a lesson several years ago about jumping to conclusions.  Ok maybe I've had to learn it a few times.  There could have been something else going on or maybe not.  Either way it is up to the cruise line to handle it properly.

 

We were on a cruise years back when I spotted someone that I had worked with maybe 10 years earlier.  I said, that looks like so and so, but neither of us were sure.  I wanted to go over and say hi, but he was hanging out with this 20 y.o. something girl that was clearly not his wife.  I saw him hanging out with her in the bars and dancing with her, and sometimes at dinner and a few times out at the pool.  He had his arm around her, even when she was with her friends.  He never acknowledged me, so we just kept to ourselves. 

 

When I got back to work, my boss asked how the cruise was.  I said, it was great, but I thought I had seen this so and so onboard, but wasn't sure. To which he answered, it was him.  His daughter is a dancer on the ship and he went to see her.  The wife couldn't leave the business, so she is going in a couple of weeks.  I am sure glad I kept my mouth shut!    

I absolutely agree. In this case, we did ask those questions. Did the crew member no them? Were they related? Were they from the same town? My son said they had met on the cruise. They did not know each other from before. 
 

I’m not putting the intent of the behavior out to be tried to decided. I’m solely interested in learning about the acceptability of the decision to be in a guest’s cabin or to serve alcohol to another guest. 

[Thrak]

Princess definitely has a policy regarding giving alcohol to those who are not of legal age to drink on that particular cruise. Folks from countries other than the US are often peeved that they are legally allowed to drink at home but no on the particular cruise itinerary they have booked. Cruises out of the US do not allow alcohol if one is under the age of 21.