Tracking children on board

[Old Fart Cruisers]

1 minute ago, Eli_6 said:

Put tiles or apple tags on them.  You can see where they are and page them with your phone if you lose them.  I do that with my keys.

Have you used them on the ship?  I haven't tried them myself, but we were with a couple who used them on our last cruise.  She was concerned after we left port that her luggage still showed as being in the terminal.  When we saw her later that evening, she said she received her luggage and verified that the air tags were still intact, but her app still showed as being at the port.  The following day it updated to show that her luggage was in the ocean, somewhere between the port and the ship's current location.  So, weather it was her connection speed to Carnival's WiFi, defective tags, or whatever reason, but it was not accurate at all, and definitely not something I would want to rely on to know where my kids were. 

[Eli_6]

1 minute ago, mjkacmom said:

I’ve never heard of a cruise line that put an age limit on being without an adult, just that children under 18 need to be in their cabin by 1 if not with an adult. The sign out thing covers their butt a bit, but please show in writing that they can’t be unattended on a ship.

The fact that they can't sign themselves in or out of Camp Ocean until they are 10 is a pretty good indicator that Carnival doesn't want young children running around the ship unattended!

 

Look - you do you.  But 8 is really young to allow them to run around the ship unsupervised. Apart from safety issues, the greater likelihood is that they will simply misbehave and get in trouble. My kids are very well-behaved and both are very advanced in terms of their development and intelligence.  And I still wouldn't have let them run around the ship unattended at 8.  And, fwiw, neither would my husband and he is a psychiatrist so actually has medical training on child nuero development. Carnival may not kick you off the ship if caught, but it is still poor form. This sort of thing is exactly why they now have to station a person at the ice cream soft serve machine to "supervise" it.  Or how my husband and kid and other adults ended up locked in the basketball court. (This actually happened again this summer, too, but with my son and a teenager locked in the court by some kid running around unsupervised and causing trouble.)    

 

[pe4all]

7 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

 Which might be why there have been zero cases of a child being kidnapped on a cruise ship.

But there have been cases of crew- and I am sure passengers- molesting kids.  This is a crazy, scary world we are raising kids in.  While I would love to believe people are good, unfortunately reading the news each day tells me otherwise.  If I was too lazy to walk to the camp to sign my young child out, anything that happens unfortunately would be on me.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/warning-for-cruise-passengers-as-sexual-assaults-hit-new-high-in-2023-fbi/ar-BB1hl5gK

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/2-families-sue-cruise-line-as-numbers-show-spike-in-reports-of-sexual-assaults-at-sea/ar-BB1h6cir

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/third-disney-cruise-line-crew-member-arrested-on-child-pornography-charges/ar-BB1lJWQT

[aborgman]

51 minutes ago, silvercrikhix said:

Not sure where these stats are coming from!

Why would anybody risk their child’s well being or innocence? 

 

https://childwatch.org/statistics/

From Child Watch of North America :

An estimated 800,000 children are reported missing each year – more than 2,000 children every day. An estimated 1 in 5 girls and 1 in 10 boys will be sexually victimized before age 18. Yet, only 1 in 3 will tell anyone.

 

—-It’s not 1967 when I was 5 yrs old and walked to school and around the 6 block radius around my home.  I actually knew who lived in every house. I have no idea who most of my neighbors are now.

 

These stats are coming from the United States Department of Justice.

 

Sedlak, Andrea J., Finkelhor, David, Brick, J.M. National Estimates of Missing Children: Updated Findings from a Survey of Parents and Other Primary Caretakers. Juvenile Justice Bulletin. NCJ 250089, Washington, DC: Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention.

 

 

An estimated 800,000 are reported missing each year.

 

About 350,000 of those 800,000 aren't actually missing and show up within a few hours.

About 250,000 of those 800,000 are abducted by a non-custodial parent.

About 122,000 of those 800,000 are abducted by a non familial acquaintance.

About 78,000 of those 800,000 are runaways.

 

About 100 of 800,000 were “stereotypical kidnappings” - where someone was actually kidnapped by a stranger.

 

The majority of the "stereotypical kidnappings" were teenagers, and 92% of them made it home safe.

 

...and you're right it isn't 1967 - the crime rate is LOWER than 1967.

 

Total Crime Rate 1967: 2,989.7 per 100K

Total Crime Rate 2023: 2,487.3 per 100K

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19 by aborgman

[Eli_6]

6 minutes ago, Old Fart Cruisers said:

Have you used them on the ship?  I haven't tried them myself, but we were with a couple who used them on our last cruise.  She was concerned after we left port that her luggage still showed as being in the terminal.  When we saw her later that evening, she said she received her luggage and verified that the air tags were still intact, but her app still showed as being at the port.  The following day it updated to show that her luggage was in the ocean, somewhere between the port and the ship's current location.  So, weather it was her connection speed to Carnival's WiFi, defective tags, or whatever reason, but it was not accurate at all, and definitely not something I would want to rely on to know where my kids were. 

I used them this past cruise to find a piece of lost luggage. However, we had just left when I found the lost luggage. I don't know how well it would have worked once we were far out at sea. I was under the impression it worked off the location of cell phones. 

[jimbo5544]

4 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

I used them this past cruise to find a piece of lost luggage. However, we had just left when I found the lost luggage. I don't know how well it would have worked once we were far out at sea. I was under the impression it worked off the location of cell phones. 

You would be correct in that assumption

[Old Fart Cruisers]

3 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

I used them this past cruise to find a piece of lost luggage. However, we had just left when I found the lost luggage. I don't know how well it would have worked once we were far out at sea. I was under the impression it worked off the location of cell phones. 

 

I was also under the impression it worked off the location of cell phones.  But I have also had times where the geotagging location was hundreds of miles off on photos.  I assume similar  technology is used for the tags, so that may account for at least some of the location problems. 

[aborgman]

6 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

I was under the impression it worked off the location of cell phones. 

 

Sort of...

 

Airtags broadcast a bluetooth signal that is picked up by any iPhone running "Find My network", that iPhone notes location (either using the phones GPS or cell tower triangulation) and reports that data to the network (using either cellular or WiFi data).

 

So it needs a cell phone with location data and some sort of data connection, to walk within about 30' of the airtag.

 

Location data is pretty impossible to get anywhere inside a ship.

[cruiserNC]

This has been a hilarious read.

 

How in the world would an Airtag be able to pinpoint a location on a moving ship?

 

Just think about it. 

 

If you aren't within 100 feet of your Airtag, you will not be able to ping it. 

 

🙂

[john91498]

46 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

Are you sure about that?  Because we used ours to find a lost bag this past cruise.  In any event,  if the kids were stolen, you could locate them once they were on land.

 

I know the Samsung tiles do not work. Not sure about the apple tags.

[mjkacmom]

32 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

The fact that they can't sign themselves in or out of Camp Ocean until they are 10 is a pretty good indicator that Carnival doesn't want young children running around the ship unattended!

 

Look - you do you.  But 8 is really young to allow them to run around the ship unsupervised. Apart from safety issues, the greater likelihood is that they will simply misbehave and get in trouble. My kids are very well-behaved and both are very advanced in terms of their development and intelligence.  And I still wouldn't have let them run around the ship unattended at 8.  And, fwiw, neither would my husband and he is a psychiatrist so actually has medical training on child nuero development. Carnival may not kick you off the ship if caught, but it is still poor form. This sort of thing is exactly why they now have to station a person at the ice cream soft serve machine to "supervise" it.  Or how my husband and kid and other adults ended up locked in the basketball court. (This actually happened again this summer, too, but with my son and a teenager locked in the court by some kid running around unsupervised and causing trouble.)    

 

My 5 kids are now adults, I didn’t let them roam cruise ships at that age. However, I’d have no issue letting them go to the buffet for a snack or a drink while I waited by the pool. My kids are also very close in age and really never went anywhere alone. It’s letting out the rope, knowing it can get pulled back in. I do think if unaccompanied minors weren’t allowed by cruise lines, there would be something in writing. Many kids don’t step foot into the kids clubs.

[john91498]

41 minutes ago, Old Fart Cruisers said:

Have you used them on the ship?  I haven't tried them myself, but we were with a couple who used them on our last cruise.  She was concerned after we left port that her luggage still showed as being in the terminal.  When we saw her later that evening, she said she received her luggage and verified that the air tags were still intact, but her app still showed as being at the port.  The following day it updated to show that her luggage was in the ocean, somewhere between the port and the ship's current location.  So, weather it was her connection speed to Carnival's WiFi, defective tags, or whatever reason, but it was not accurate at all, and definitely not something I would want to rely on to know where my kids were. 

 

Same with us. It showed our last location back at port and then a day later, it showed us in the middle of the ocean.

[aborgman]

4 minutes ago, cruiserNC said:

This has been a hilarious read.

 

How in the world would an Airtag be able to pinpoint a location on a moving ship?

 

Just think about it. 

 

If you aren't within 100 feet of your Airtag, you will not be able to ping it. 

 

🙂

 

GPS works just fine on cruise ships if you are out in the open. Inside the ship, not so much.

 

...and you don't ping Airtags - Airtags ping phones... and not just your own phone, but ANYONES iPhone.

 

...and if you could get the actual Airtag API and write your own code, you could almost certainly triangulate off WiFi router locations and get location data inside the ship.

 

[mjkacmom]

37 minutes ago, pe4all said:

But there have been cases of crew- and I am sure passengers- molesting kids.  This is a crazy, scary world we are raising kids in.  While I would love to believe people are good, unfortunately reading the news each day tells me otherwise.  If I was too lazy to walk to the camp to sign my young child out, anything that happens unfortunately would be on me.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/warning-for-cruise-passengers-as-sexual-assaults-hit-new-high-in-2023-fbi/ar-BB1hl5gK

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/2-families-sue-cruise-line-as-numbers-show-spike-in-reports-of-sexual-assaults-at-sea/ar-BB1h6cir

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/third-disney-cruise-line-crew-member-arrested-on-child-pornography-charges/ar-BB1lJWQT

But children being assaulted by strangers on ships is so rare. A 15 year old could be assaulted, do they stay in their parent’s sight at all times? 17? Soon they are off to college where sexual assault IS a big issue. You have only 18 years to get them prepared for life.

[Eli_6]

Apparently, I am not the only one who has used air tags/tile to locate luggage on a cruise:

I tried AirTags to track my luggage on a Royal Caribbean cruise | Royal Caribbean Blog

 

Also, you can page them and they make a noise.  I don't know about using them on kids, but certainly you can use them on your luggage on a cruise ship if you check your luggage.  

[Mike45LC]

54 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Which might be why there have been zero cases of a child being kidnapped on a cruise ship.

But I assume the molestation rate is higher than zero.  There is a website that reports on arrests of ship crew members arrested for things such as child porn which is frightening.  I don't think I am allowed to name it.

[MamaToMany]

My daughter is a very petite 12 year old, and of an ethnicity that is often fetishized. Combined with the large amounts of drinking onboard, I definitely worried about an adult having a lapse of judgement and perhaps speaking to her in a gross manner or simply approaching her in a way that felt threatening to her. It’s not just actual touch that can leave a scar on a kid’s psyche. 
 

We addressed safety concerns, we discussed scenarios and responses. We also discussed appropriate and polite behavior on her part. The intent wasn’t to scare, simply to remind her of her agency and right to good treatment. We always made a plan if she was going to be separated from me, and we both followed that plan. (Notes on the whiteboard in the room, etc.). She mostly just went to and from the young teens club solo, but did venture out for a couple of other things. Independence in a slightly controlled environment is a great tool for growth. 
 

As for the wee cretins left solo by their folks all week? I feel like I few of those discussions needed to be had by more families before boarding. If your kid is going to act like a crapweasel, you need to have your eyes on them when they aren’t in the kid’s club. Full stop.

Edited June 19 by MamaToMany

[silvercrikhix]

And just for the record, apparently Carnival has a wish on the minor subject. 
A bit overreaching for sure…but an interesting find. 
 

[carohs]

I just want to point out there's a vast distinction between never letting your child out of your sight (btw, you sleep don't you? I have stories of things my children have pulled in the middle of the night, too), and letting the child roam freely around the ship. There is most likely some middle ground most parents allow depending on the maturity and age of the child. And I agree, I too have seen plenty of kids who could have benefitted from more parenting (currently present or not) on the ship. 

 

The fact is, statistically, children are safer among complete strangers than among family and friends. Quote me a hundred horrible things that could happen to any child and I could probably quote you a hundred more where that same scenario was perpetrated by someone that child knew.

 

Look, if I only parented by absolutely avoiding every risk to my child, that child would have to live in some kind of bubble. Even something as simple as introducing a child to a PB&J for the first time would never happen. Why? Because there's a thousand stories out there of deaths from peanut allergies. We as parents pick and choose what risks to avoid and which we knowingly face anyway. You drive your kids? Yeah, let's not talk about the thousands of stories of horrible things that can happen on the road, either. 

 

My 8yo is rarely separated from us on the ship, outside of kids club. And even more rare if they are they alone without their elder sibling. But I'm not gonna be over here pretending I'm some kind of perfect parent with perfectly behaved children and situations have never happened whether in my control or not that have led to my 8yo being separated from us. But I can say with absolute certainty that if/when we are separated, anywhere/anytime not just on a ship, the expectation has been clearly set and procedures clearly laid out for reconnecting with a parent. Not only in theory, but followed in practice too. Which is why I feel maybe more comfortable than others allowing the kids to return back to the stateroom on their own while we finish dinner, or leave the theater to use the restroom, or go get a cup of soft-serve while we stand in line for Guys. 

[jimbo5544]

12 hours ago, silvercrikhix said:

And just for the record, apparently Carnival has a wish on the minor subject. 
A bit overreaching for sure…but an interesting find. 
 

Why is this over reaching?

[cruiserNC]

16 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

GPS works just fine on cruise ships if you are out in the open. Inside the ship, not so much.

 

...and you don't ping Airtags - Airtags ping phones... and not just your own phone, but ANYONES iPhone.

 

...and if you could get the actual Airtag API and write your own code, you could almost certainly triangulate off WiFi router locations and get location data inside the ship.

 

 

Ok Ok, so let me know when your Airtag reports that it is located on Deck 6 Aft

 

🙂

 

[Itchy&Scratchy]

17 hours ago, john91498 said:

 

tiles or apple tags do not work out at sea

stupid tile can't even find my DH's wallet in our own house.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

18 hours ago, mjkacmom said:

Which might be why there have been zero cases of a child being kidnapped on a cruise ship.

but sadly not zero cases of SA.

[aborgman]

59 minutes ago, cruiserNC said:

 

Ok Ok, so let me know when your Airtag reports that it is located on Deck 6 Aft

 

🙂

 

 

Airtags don't report that they're located anywhere.

The phone or iPad the Airtag connects to would be reporting.

 

...and the location would be a triangulation point between WiFi access points.

 

...and because you're spoofing location data into the phones software (already common when using external GPS receivers) - it'd have to be you that walks within 40' or so of the Airtag, not just any iPhone.

[silvercrikhix]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

Why is this over reaching?

There are definitely Minors who are mature enough, responsible enough, etc… to go solo from point A to Point B. It does depend on the situation for sure. Why is it overreaching?  Because there are oodles of kids out and about on Carnival ships. Seen plenty. Every cruise, every line, etc… Many teens are responsible enough to navigate solo. They do not enforce this ‘policy’ at all.  
It seems like a hopeful suggestion on Carnivals part. LOL 

 

The cruise ship has basically bedroom doors one after another and lots of them. It would only take one strong arm to reach out and pull a kid into the room. It’s a risk we personally would not take. Doubtful something could happen, but why take the chance?  No thanks. No hallways at 8. 
 

Yes, Age is a big factor too. We board the Magic Sunday with 5 adult kids and 3 GBabys. These GB’s are 8 yr old twins, and a 7 yr old. The twins 1st cruise and the 7 yr olds 3rd. 
They are in the same Camp Ocean group which is fabulous. They will not be unaccompanied on the ship at any time. Can they go grab a cookie or swirls while in our eyesight?  Go down the water slide? Of course!  Someone will be keeping an eye on them. The 8 yr olds were latchkey this year for the 1st time. They did just fine and are very well behaved kids.