New Booking Engine Pricing Transparency Model

[orville99]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but as of yesterday (7/1/24) RCL is now showing the all in price (taxes and fees are now included in the price that shows up on the first screen) when you search for cruises. Makes it a lot easier to compare cruises and categories. Celebrity also adopted the same price transparency model yesterday.😇

[h20skibum]

They may be doing it for the cruise fares, but not for cruise planner items.

 

Those may still be out of compliance with the California law that prompted the change.

 

 

 

 

 

Although it still says tax and/or gratuity calculated in cart, it is the gratuity that is added

 

 

 

 

I guess their out in not disclosing the gratuity is that they are considered “voluntary”.  They say they can be removed by going to GS., although I doubt most do. 

 

 

[orville99]

16 minutes ago, h20skibum said:

They may be doing it for the cruise fares, but not for cruise planner items.

 

Those may still be out of compliance with the California law that prompted the change.

Not entirely sure how the California law reads, but if I remember correctly, it was targeted to transparency in the ticketing process, not the discretionary items one might choose to purchase after booking.

[1025cruise]

Yes, thank California. 

[Pratique]

I think the relevant change to the law is:

 

(29) (A) Advertising, displaying, or offering a price for a good or service that does not include all mandatory fees or charges other than either of the following:

(i) Taxes or fees imposed by a government on the transaction.

(ii) Postage or carriage charges that will be reasonably and actually incurred to ship the physical good to the consumer.

 

So it should cover cruise planner purchases as well.

 

The definition of "mandatory" is unclear. Gratuities are voluntary but when booking online there is no option to decline at the time of purchase, so that is getting into a grey area because the law does not specify whether the advertised price must include all fees/charges at the time of purchase or the final price (such as when a price includes a refundable deposit that can be forfeited).

[smokeybandit]

It's actually pretty dumb. Now you don't know what you're paying in taxes on the search results screen.

 

 

[The Fun Researcher]

Yes, I love this change!!   Much appreciated and makes it so much nicer to quickly compare fares.

 

Now it's only gratuities that need to be considered besides all the other cruise planner items. 

[Pratique]

6 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

It's actually pretty dumb. Now you don't know what you're paying in taxes on the search results screen.

 

 

The airlines and rental car companies have had to advertise the all-in price for awhile now and they don't always show the tax breakdown during the search either. Frankly the taxes doesn't make any difference in my purchasing decisions since all I care about is the final cost to me.

[orville99]

7 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

It's actually pretty dumb. Now you don't know what you're paying in taxes on the search results screen.

 

 

Not sure I understand why that would make any difference when comparing cruises. 

[leaveitallbehind]

Agree with some of the previous comments. The one fallacy I see with this is that a reason that taxes and port charges are shown separately is that they can and do vary by sailing and are not a "constant".  Having them shown separately allows for full transparency of the cruise fares which provides direct category comparison and clarity with any fare changes over time. You then get the total of the fees and fare combined with any mock booking.  Simple and fair.  If port fees and taxes are buried into this total, IMO that benefit is lost and deciphering actual fare changes would be more difficult.

 

As planner purchases are optional and not mandatory they would not be required to be included. Not clear how gratuities should be handled but my understanding is the regulatory change looks to only apply to the required fare purchase fees such as port fees and taxes.

 

IMO the whole exercise is unnecessary.

Edited Tuesday at 03:14 PM by leaveitallbehind

[Pratique]

2 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

As planner purchases are optional and not mandatory they would not be required to be included. Not clear how gratuities should be handled but my understanding is the regulatory change looks to only apply to the required fare purchase fees such as port fees and taxes.

 

IMO the whole exercise is unnecessary.

That is not how the law reads. "This act is intended to specifically prohibit drip pricing, which involves advertising a price that is less than the actual price that a consumer will have to pay for a good or service." This applies to any good or service. Also, buying a cruise is also "optional" so that logic does not work.

 

The exercise is necessary IMHO to protect consumers from surprise charges that are not clearly disclosed in the advertisement. Seems like a consumer-friendly public policy just as much as prohibiting false ads that claim products or services that do not exist or are not delivered.

[smokeybandit]

3 hours ago, orville99 said:

Not sure I understand why that would make any difference when comparing cruises. 

Because I like to know the breakdown. I could see that easily in the old model, but for whatever reason they removed it. I have no issue with them showing, say, "$1000 per person, including $100 of taxes/fees"

Instead they just show "includes taxes"

 

[orville99]

8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Because I like to know the breakdown. I could see that easily in the old model, but for whatever reason they removed it. I have no issue with them showing, say, "$1000 per person, including $100 of taxes/fees"

Instead they just show "includes taxes"

 

It is still itemized on your booking invoice. Knowing anything other than the total price doesn’t do you any good unless you decide to book.

Edited Tuesday at 06:58 PM by orville99

[neverbeenhere]

I like knowing the "bottom line" for easy comparison. There currently is no need for me to know the Government Fee or Taxes amounts, if the law changes allowing me to deduct the taxes, then that's another ballgame.

[PhillyFan33579]

4 hours ago, leaveitallbehind said:

As planner purchases are optional and not mandatory they would not be required to be included. Not clear how gratuities should be handled but my understanding is the regulatory change looks to only apply to the required fare purchase fees such as port fees and taxes.

The way the law is written it should definitely apply to any good or service provided by RCI, which would include goods and services available thru planner. Keep in mind purchasing a cruise is optional and not mandatory (I have never met anyone who told me they were forced to book a cruise). 

[orville99]

31 minutes ago, neverbeenhere said:

I like knowing the "bottom line" for easy comparison. There currently is no need for me to know the Government Fee or Taxes amounts, if the law changes allowing me to deduct the taxes, then that's another ballgame.

Agree. For example, if I am looking at two different 7-night cruises on the same ship that go to different ports (i.e. an Eastern and a Western), and both cruises now show me the exact same bottom line price, does it really matter if one of them has $200 in taxes and fees and the other one has $250? 

[neverbeenhere]

25 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

The way the law is written it should definitely apply to any good or service provided by RCI, which would include goods and services available thru planner. Keep in mind purchasing a cruise is optional and not mandatory (I have never met anyone who told me they were forced to book a cruise). 

To my knowledge, we haven't met and "forced" might be a little strong, but my wife does indicate that it is mandatory they we book cruises quite often. If that changes, I'll indicate here on CC. 

[PhillyFan33579]

Just now, neverbeenhere said:

To my knowledge, we haven't met and "forced" might be a little strong, but my wife does indicate that it is mandatory they we book cruises quite often. If that changes, I'll indicate here on CC. 

After I posted my comment, I thought someone will probably say my spouse more or less forced me to book a cruise. 🙂

[orville99]

3 minutes ago, neverbeenhere said:

To my knowledge, we haven't met and "forced" might be a little strong, but my wife does indicate that it is mandatory they we book cruises quite often. If that changes, I'll indicate here on CC. 

 

1 minute ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

After I posted my comment, I thought someone will probably say my spouse more or less forced me to book a cruise. 🙂

If we don't have a cruise booked every 6-8 weeks, I'm probably going to be sleeping on the couch again😇👴

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

The way the law is written it should definitely apply to any good or service provided by RCI, which would include goods and services available thru planner.

I don't see how it would be remotely feasible to include any possible optional purchase in the total cruise fare plus port fees and taxes scenario.  There are dozens of options including wifi, drink packages, shore excursions, etc.  How could you possibly include any or all of them in a total fare disclosure under the CA regulation? 

 

That IMO is not what that is about.  CA is mandating only required fees and charges to be included with the total fare cost so that there are no "hidden" or additional required charges added later.  It does not include optional additional on board purchases which one may or may not decide to add.

 

When a decision is made to purchase a cruise, optional planner charges are not mandatory costs that would be included in the base fare scenario.  Unless I am missing your point.

Edited Tuesday at 09:05 PM by leaveitallbehind

[PhillyFan33579]

1 minute ago, leaveitallbehind said:

I don't see how it would be feasible to include any possible optional purchase in the total cruise fare plus port fees and taxes scenario.  There are dozens of options including wifi, drink packages, shore excursions, etc.  How could you possibly include any or all of them in a total fare disclosure under the CA regulation? 

 

That IMO is not what that is about.  CA is mandating only required fees and charges to be included with the total fare cost.  Not optional additional charges which one may or may not decide to add. When a decision is made to purchase a cruise, optional planner charges are not mandatory costs that would be included in the base fare scenario.  Unless I am missing your point.

It sounds like you think this law was written to address cruise fares, which is not the case. Although the law applies to cruise lines, cruise lines were not the impetus behind this law. The law is aimed at eliminating drip pricing (the advertised price is less than the final cost to consumers). For example, on my upcoming cruise on Enchantment the current advertised price for the deluxe beverage package is $69.99 per guest per day. But if I try to buy this package, the price increases to $82.58 per guest per day. That is a classic example of drip pricing. The advertised price of $69.99 per day is not the “real” price of $82.58 per day. I would be shocked if RCI is allowed to continue this practice, which is clearly illegal in California. Keep in mind I live in Florida. It’s possible cruise planner has already been updated to reflect real prices for California residents. 

[1025cruise]

Generally speaking, when one books a cruise, one has to pay a fare and port fees and taxes. Under the old model, you would start shopping based on a fare of 2000 for the cruise, with an additional 500 for taxes and port fees. With the new rule, the advertisement starts at 2500 for all in. Obviously, gratuities etc are additional but are n not required to be paid when booking a cruise.

[leaveitallbehind]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

It sounds like you think this law was written to address cruise fares, which is not the case. Although the law applies to cruise lines, cruise lines were not the impetus behind this law. The law is aimed at eliminating drip pricing (the advertised price is less than the final cost to consumers). For example, on my upcoming cruise on Enchantment the current advertised price for the deluxe beverage package is $69.99 per guest per day. But if I try to buy this package, the price increases to $82.58 per guest per day. That is a classic example of drip pricing. The advertised price of $69.99 per day is not the “real” price of $82.58 per day. I would be shocked if RCI is allowed to continue this practice, which is clearly illegal in California. Keep in mind I live in Florida. It’s possible cruise planner has already been updated to reflect real prices for California residents. 

That is an incorrect assumption on your part. I understand why it was enacted and that it has nothing to do with cruise fares.  They just fall under its scope.  I was interpreting comments that implied to me that optional purchases would be included as part of the base fare plus taxes and port fees disclosure as part of that pricing.  Perhaps I was incorrect in that interpretation. 

 

If individual planner purchases don't reflect that final price with, say, a gratuity or other charge, then including those charges as part of that disclosure individually, then fine.  Currently those additional charges are indicated as being applied, usually by a percentage descriptor, and that total is shown in the cart as check out.  So it is still shown, but not as a total in the initial price. 

 

Showing it as a total up front may not provide a method of breaking down the elements of the cost.  Some may prefer seeing that breakdown, as either way the net total cost is the same. JMO

Edited Tuesday at 10:19 PM by leaveitallbehind

[PhillyFan33579]

However it turns out I doubt it will matter to anyone in the future. At some point whatever changes are implemented will become the new normal and most people won’t even think about the change that is fresh on everyone’s mind right now. 

[smokeybandit]

58 minutes ago, 1025cruise said:

Generally speaking, when one books a cruise, one has to pay a fare and port fees and taxes. Under the old model, you would start shopping based on a fare of 2000 for the cruise, with an additional 500 for taxes and port fees. With the new rule, the advertisement starts at 2500 for all in. Obviously, gratuities etc are additional but are n not required to be paid when booking a cruise.

RC always showed the tax amount on the search results. You just had to do the math. Now RC does the math, but doesn't show you the tax amount.