Carnival Corporation Orders Three Additional Ships for Carnival Cruise Line, Introducing a New Class of Ships

[jsglow]

I honestly would have been more surprised had Carnival announced new ships that were smaller than Excels. That market can't be served profitably anymore with brand new iron by the mass market lines. But when one door closes, another opens. And the old Spirits will be around for many more years anyways.

 

I did see on FB that John Heald is getting a fair amount of push back; even to the point where he expressed some mild frustration. If I'm at Viking, Windstar or even in-house at HAL, I'm paying attention.

Edited July 24 by jsglow

[ProgRockCruiser]

26 minutes ago, jsglow said:

I did see ... that John Heald is getting a fair amount of push back;

He could say that water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen and there would be people complaining that he didn't take into account that hydrogen atoms are a lot lighter than oxygen so it really isn't two parts to one, weight-wise, and besides, what about hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, it isn't fair he didn't mention that as well, and....

 

I swear the Russian bots get their training on sites like that...

[jimbo5544]

53 minutes ago, jeblack1 said:

Just went on Celebration to ABC islands....great cruise!   I agree that I would like something that went further east in the Caribbean.

Further east than the ABC's?

[jimbo5544]

40 minutes ago, jsglow said:

I honestly would have been more surprised had Carnival announced new ships that were smaller than Excels. That market can't be served profitably anymore with brand new iron by the mass market lines. But when one door closes, another opens. And the old Spirits will be around for many more years anyways.

 

I did see on FB that John Heald is getting a fair amount of push back; even to the point where he expressed some mild frustration. If I'm at Viking, Windstar or even in-house at HAL, I'm paying attention.

to me (and my wallet) HAL wins that race.

[jimbo5544]

11 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

He could say that water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen and there would be people complaining that he didn't take into account that hydrogen atoms are a lot lighter than oxygen so it really isn't two parts to one, weight-wise, and besides, what about hydrogen peroxide, H2O2, it isn't fair he didn't mention that as well, and....

 

I swear the Russian bots get their training on sites like that...

Yup

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, ray985 said:

It'd make a lot more sense of Princess' decision to go with a new class of ship rather than use the Excel-class ships most of Carnival's brands went with. 

Maybe.

 

Cancelled features

https://www.cruisemummy.co.uk/princess-cruises-announces-that-several-key-attractions-on-sun-princess-will-never-open/

 

Tendering issues

https://www.cruisemummy.co.uk/more-issues-for-sun-princess-port-cancellations-drive-concerns-over-ongoing-tender-boat-problems/

[Joebucks]

Personally, I don't care if a ship has 1,000, 8,000, or 50,000 people. As long as it's designed to reasonably handle them. My last Carnival cruise was on the Celebration, and that was my favorite Carnival ship so far. There were so many more amenities, the Serenity was beautiful, the food and drink choices were vast. It was a great time. We never felt bored or that it was too crowded. I feared the lines because that is what the internet taught me. There were a few tweaks that could be made to areas like comedy clubs and the new atrium. Overall, it was no worse.

 

I'm not here to worry about problems that may or may not be overblown. As the world's population grows, unfortunately there are more people everywhere. People have no qualms about going to Vegas, Europe, Florida, or wherever else, where there might be tens of thousands of people in your vicinity, causing crowds and whatnot. We continue to live in the past about nostalgia and a bar that was set then. If you prefer that, fine. However, it's really not the end of the world the way people make it sound.

 

Carnival doesn't need to design smaller ships. They have plenty of brands that cater to all of the needs everyone asks for. We all know that the new, large, ships will practically sell out every time. There is demand. Opinions don't change that. 

 

With that said, there are concerns as everything continues to grow in size:

 

- Ports of Call: Unfortunately, as I said, space is limited, but crowds don't care. If you're going to expect exploration in the wilderness, with a machete, you might be disappointed. Some ports are only going to continue to get more crowded. I've said it before, I welcome things like Celebration Key with open arms. Sometimes, it's just nice to have a beautiful beach day that doesn't require you to buy expensive taxis and food. Plus, more options for those who so choose. However, looking to 2033 (which is a ways off) the current port situation will not work with all of the destinations we have today. There are going to need to be more options.

 

- Embarkation/Debarkation Ports: The boarding process on ships is great. Significantly better than even 5 years ago. I laugh at needing to buy a priority package for this. With that said, getting to and from some of the ports is getting to be too much. The Port of Miami is already a traffic disaster. It will only get worse. They need to figure out some sort of train or other system to transport people. 

 

- Venues: Please please please heavily consider the flow of popular areas. If you want me to jump on the anti-crowd bandwagon, this is it. I can't stand when it becomes impossible to get into things. Like having to be at a comedy club a half hour in advance to get a seat. I don't know if they need to put multiple theaters in, but this is the kind of stuff that truly matters to most people. Not ratios. Not how many people are here compared to how many people were in 1990. Flow.

[tidecat]

35 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

to me (and my wallet) HAL wins that race.

Maybe Carnival Corp needs to work on "graduating" some cruisers to Princess and Holland America. Easier to hide the higher costs of a smaller ship in a luxury product.  I actually think rebooting Holland America as an adults-only line might have some merit. If nothing else, Carnival Corp could hurt Virgin by beating Virgin on price.

[jsglow]

 

2 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Maybe Carnival Corp needs to work on "graduating" some cruisers to Princess and Holland America. Easier to hide the higher costs of a smaller ship in a luxury product.  I actually think rebooting Holland America as an adults-only line might have some merit. If nothing else, Carnival Corp could hurt Virgin by beating Virgin on price.

I couldn't agree more. It's totally okay that they are moving their core product away from me with each new ship. No problem. Usher me somewhere else. And show me you appreciate my business all these years by making my VIFP status at least somewhat transferable.

[ProgRockCruiser]

37 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Maybe Carnival Corp needs to work on "graduating" some cruisers to Princess and Holland America.

 

31 minutes ago, jsglow said:

 

I couldn't agree more. It's totally okay that they are moving their core product away from me with each new ship. No problem. Usher me somewhere else. And show me you appreciate my business all these years by making my VIFP status at least somewhat transferable.

Indeed, I just did a quick price comparison over lunch for cruises on Princess, compared to the same type of cruise on Carnival, and they were pretty close, price-wise, depending on time of year, etc.  And the Princess Plus/Premier fares end up being useful, since we always get Cheers!, and this also includes the AutoGrats (and wifi, which I really would prefer to avoid...)

[jimbo5544]

53 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Maybe Carnival Corp needs to work on "graduating" some cruisers to Princess and Holland America. Easier to hide the higher costs of a smaller ship in a luxury product.  I actually think rebooting Holland America as an adults-only line might have some merit. If nothing else, Carnival Corp could hurt Virgin by beating Virgin on price.

Overall, I am sure that is the plan.  In reality, not sure it works all that well.

[BlerkOne]

59 minutes ago, tidecat said:

  I actually think rebooting Holland America as an adults-only line might have some merit. If nothing else, Carnival Corp could hurt Virgin by beating Virgin on price.

I don't. Virgin is a niche player and I wouldn't be surprised if they were losing money. No need for both cruise lines to go under.

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

4 hours ago, tidecat said:

The Excel-class design is from Meyer. Fincantieri is ultimately basing theirs on Project Mille, which has been used by MSC (Seaside and Seaside EVO classes) and Norwegian (Prima class).

Which makes since if they are going to be dusting off the Pinnacle design.

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

Also an order of three ships means we know where they are going. 

 

Port Canaveral, Miami and Galveston. 

 

I would guess MG stays and takes over Vista 6/8 day sailings? Same for Celebration down in Miami not sure where you throw Magic/Vista class ships unless you finally do give New Orleans one. 

 

Which would make @Saint Greg really happy lol 

Edited July 24 by WhaleTailFlCruiser

[Saint Greg]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

Maybe Carnival Corp needs to work on "graduating" some cruisers to Princess and Holland America. Easier to hide the higher costs of a smaller ship in a luxury product.  I actually think rebooting Holland America as an adults-only line might have some merit. If nothing else, Carnival Corp could hurt Virgin by beating Virgin on price.

 

To do that they need to be adding more ships to those brands. They need to be year round in Galveston. They need more ships in Florida. If you want to cruise next month with Princess you have to embark in Europe, Seattle, Vancouver, Whittier, Boston, NYC, Japan, Fort Lauderdale, Australia, or California.

[tidecat]

14 minutes ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

Also an order of three ships means we know where they are going. 

 

Port Canaveral, Miami and Galveston. 

 

I would guess MG stays and takes over Vista 6/8 day sailings? Same for Celebration down in Miami not sure where you throw Magic/Vista class ships unless you finally do give New Orleans one. 

 

Which would make @Saint Greg really happy lol 

Carnival Cruise Line is getting two new Excel ships in 2027 and 2028 in addition to these three. Don't be surprised to see one or more of the Excel or "Pinnacle" class on short cruises similar to what Royal Caribbean is doing with Utopia of the Seas. 

[jimbo5544]

49 minutes ago, tidecat said:

Carnival Cruise Line is getting two new Excel ships in 2027 and 2028 in addition to these three. Don't be surprised to see one or more of the Excel or "Pinnacle" class on short cruises similar to what Royal Caribbean is doing with Utopia of the Seas. 

I would agree that one will prob do shorter cruises, it makes total sense.  I would not be surprised if one went down under and freed up small ship(s) for more unique itineraries.

[SDPadreFan]

On 7/23/2024 at 11:49 AM, aborgman said:

 

Well...

 

New Carnival ships:

230,000 gross tons

3,000+ staterooms

 

Oasis class:

235,000 gross tons

2,744 staterooms

 

I mean - it's possible Oasis class ships are dedicating way more space to crew - but odds are that being larger with less staterooms equates to more public space.

Carnival will be introducing a completely new category of stateroom. Code named "postage stamp". Shhhhh. you didn't hear it from me! The bathrooms will be like the all-in-ones in tiny RV's.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

Which makes since if they are going to be dusting off the Pinnacle design.

Dusting off an old design makes no sense to me.

[RoperDK]

10 hours ago, DanJ said:

I've been on Oasis and they only board on one side of the ship. How do they embark on both sides when there is only one side of the ship facing the pier just like any other ship? 

They embark and disembark at 2 locations - forward and aft.  They have different flow points for both.  You can be off an Oasis class ship, in your car, and rolling down the road before someone can work their way through the snaking line to exit a Carnival ship. Carnival has many strong points, but crowd flow is not one of them.    

[jimbo5544]

19 minutes ago, SDPadreFan said:

Carnival will be introducing a completely new category of stateroom. Code named "postage stamp". Shhhhh. you didn't hear it from me! The bathrooms will be like the all-in-ones in tiny RV's.

just like NCL and Royal?

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, Saint Greg said:

 

To do that they need to be adding more ships to those brands. They need to be year round in Galveston. They need more ships in Florida. If you want to cruise next month with Princess you have to embark in Europe, Seattle, Vancouver, Whittier, Boston, NYC, Japan, Fort Lauderdale, Australia, or California.

I do not think you can have it both ways.  Either Princess and HAL are the world options, or they are not.  Carnival corp pits them against each other and Carnival in Alaska and other places. Carnival was the Caribbean answer for the Corp, the big ships just reinforce that push (unless they go elsewhere, which I do not foresee, other than a ship down under).

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said:

I do not think you can have it both ways.  Either Princess and HAL are the world options, or they are not.  Carnival corp pits them against each other and Carnival in Alaska and other places. Carnival was the Caribbean answer for the Corp, the big ships just reinforce that push (unless they go elsewhere, which I do not foresee, other than a ship down under).

I doubt Carnival Corp is looking for head to head competition among Carnival brands more than they already do. It makes sense to move some ships away from the Caribbean for hurricane season.

[kwokpot]

13 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

just like NCL and Royal?

Actually the bathrooms on NCL's Prima Class and bathrooms on any Royal ship are decently sized, unlike the Excel class or cousin ships in the Virgin fleet. Celebrity's Edge class have very nice bathrooms in their standard cabins. 

The standard cabin bathrooms on the Carnival fleet pre Excel Class were always horrid: cheap ugly plastic without a hint of real tile and even up to the Panorama had a shower curtains instead of glass doors. At least aesthetically the Excel class bathrooms look new, modern, and have that great pivoting glass shower door. Too bad they're so small!

Edited July 24 by kwokpot

[DanJ]

10 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Front and back. Not both sides. Maybe you just didnt notice. I've boarded in multiples ports and they divide into 2 so it's about as fast as smaller ships. 

Just saying that you said both sides, not front and back, so I took that to mean port and starboard which would be exceedingly difficult in most ports. Honestly, when we boarded Oasis, it was such a quick process from curb to ship that I didn't have enough time to notice if they were boarding with multiple gangways, although it makes perfect sense to do so. One time in Port Everglades, and not even with an Oasis ship (it was Navigator), they were using 2 terminals to board, the 2 at the end of Eller Dr on the right, which I think have been redeveloped since into a larger terminal.