Celebrity Error - Build a "Class System" into Your Ships

[sanger727]

16 hours ago, DaKahuna said:

 

If I may beg a question here... Why are you ignoring the majority of the ships in Celebrity's fleet and focusing on the Edge Class?   There is nothing anywhere that says you can only sail on the Edge Class of ships. 

 

Because that fact doesn't feed into the OP's agenda. This is a complaint fest, no need to focus on reasonable responses. 

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, Andy_P said:

I don't believe in a classless society.  Money might "talk", but it doesn't buy "class".  I only sail in a suite when I get a deal on either an upgrade or a "MoveUp".  Twice I've been on a B2B with one week in a suite and use of The Retreat, then the next week no suite and no Retreat and I haven't been resentful.   There's lots of fun to be had even in "Steerage". 

People taking expensive vacations and arguing about “class”.  I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

[Spif Barwunkel]

Only to satisfy my curiosity. If Celebrity debuted three new Solstice Class ships at the same time, each intended to provide a most pleasant but environmentally different cruising experience, which one would generate the greatest popularity, enjoyment and success, both short and long term? Cruise would be a ten-night itinerary, with embarkation port and ports-of-call of no significance. No extra charges as everything is included in the advertised price, with the exception of excursions. 

 

Ship #1 - All inside and porthole cabins with 200 square feet of living space. Comfortable dining venues with good food and service but no specialty restaurants. Low to mid-priced wines, beers and liquors at no extra charge, but with a daily drink minimum. All non-alcoholic drinks included. No lavish or fancy production shows, but occasional live entertainment in public venues. No Spa. No World Class Bar. No Aqua or Concierge class. 

Cost of cruise - $2000.00pp

 

Ship #2 - All balcony cabins with 400 square feet of living space. Comfortable dining venues with good food and service, including specialty restaurants by reservation only. Mid to high-priced wines, beers and liquors at no extra charge and no drink minimum. All non-alcoholic drinks included. Typical production shows and live entertainment. Blu and Luminae would be considered specialty restaurants.

Cost of cruise - $5000.00pp

 

Ship #3 - All ocean view Suites with 1500 square feet of living space. Lavish, luxurious with nothing excluded. The best of everything 

Cost of cruise - $12000.00pp

 

Each ship is the typical Solstice Class layout with modifications based on changes as necessary. Location of cabin has no effect on price. First come first served on cabin location and any reservations required. Pre-paid tips, if included, cannot be withdrawn. All areas on all ships are open to everyone. 

 

Are we equal, now?

[retiredtraveler70]

2 hours ago, Andy_P said:

I don't believe in a classless society.  Money might "talk", but it doesn't buy "class".  I only sail in a suite when I get a deal on either an upgrade or a "MoveUp".  Twice I've been on a B2B with one week in a suite and use of The Retreat, then the next week no suite and no Retreat and I haven't been resentful.   There's lots of fun to be had even in "Steerage". 

 

Good comments, Andy. We have fun no matter where we are positioned on a ship. My comments were not to denigrate the cruise line, but only to point out that in providing perks, they need to come up with something new as opposed to taking something away from "steerage." 

[retiredtraveler70]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

Because that fact doesn't feed into the OP's agenda. This is a complaint fest, no need to focus on reasonable responses. 

 

Sorry, but I'm not a fan-boy. I love Celebrity, but I also love other lines. We're just cruise junkies. This isn't a complaint fest Mr. or Ms. Sanger -- it's a pointed note about how on one group of ships (E-class) they've taken the approach of removing benefits from the 70% of passengers and calling them perks to others (who pay for it). My thought is that it's best for cruise lines to provide a basic level of excellence across food and entertainment and then to add fresh, new perks for those who want more. Roping off seats in the theater? That's a completely bonehead move.

[retiredtraveler70]

19 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Celebrity does not build its ships with the intent of inducing a "class" system within its passenger collective. We all agree, that is absurd. The thought of a class system - on any class ship - is self-induced and is only perpetuated by one's own feelings of a lack of recognition and/or a failure to properly reward tenure. I suggest that if one feels the need to be included in all things possible on a cruise ship, with NO exceptions, write X a blank check with each booking imploring them to include you in everything special. Otherwise, be happy and be one with your station in your cruising life.      

 

Wow, did you get it wrong here Spif. "We all agree" -- Really? Read the responses. MANY of them agree that Celebrity is promoting an internal class system when experiences occur such as the every-night "roped off section" in the theater, or building ships where the 70% of passengers can't have a drink with a forward view. I am happy anywhere on the ship, and have been in each category of room over many years of sailing with Celebrity and others. I've never had an experience like the recent Beyond. It's getting worse, not better. If they want to add "perks" for people who pay more, the way to do it is to add something new and unique. For example, add a special show and it's for suites and special perk people. That's fair and you get what you pay for. The way it's going, there will be roped off seats in the Oceanview someday soon.

[retiredtraveler70]

15 hours ago, cachouonacruise said:

In my opinion, there is something that Celebrity did wrong, and that people sailing normally, in the Retreat, may not realize or fully understand. 
 

I understand fully that Suite Class passengers pay a lot more than a regular cabin passenger; therefore, they do deserve more!!! Absolutely! 

 

Suite Class passengers, fully deserve their special Luminae Restaurant, with their own five star Michelin Chef!

 

They fully deserve, their own private Michael's Lounge, filled with the finest wines and liquor! Of course, they do! 
 

They deserve their priority boarding line and priority tenders! 
 

They deserve Captain's Dinners etc....
 

No problem!!! 
 

They can have all that, as long as the rest of the common areas remain common to everyone... But, sadly, it's no longer true. 

 

What's relatively recent in the cruise industry, is the decision to recreate, the old Class system, by ensuring the top tier passengers, unless they choose to, don't risk to come side by side with a regular passenger.

 

To give this top tier passenger, this last perk, which includes their own deck, their own hot tub, etc, taking into account limited space on a ship; the decision was made to take away space that used to be accessible to regular passengers.
 

Regular passenger can't help missing what was withdrawn from them!!!

 

In the Titanic, the same concept applied! Upper decks reserved to the top tier passengers, deck below to the next tier and then the bottom decks for the rest of the guests. Everything was done to avoid mixing guests from a tier to the next! Now, it's similar: but it's more the front of the ship to the top tier, the rest at the back....

 

What Celebrity and other cruiseline may have miscalculated is the following: 

 

Titanic and other transoceanic vessels were use mainly for transport, meaning going from point A to point B. They were needed!!! Nowadays cruise ships are mainly used for the enjoyable experience. But they are other vacation options! cruising is not a must! 

 

I am sure that Retreat guests continue to enjoy their experience. For other guests however, especially for people who experienced what cruising used to be...it does make cruising a much less inviting experience.
 

Of note, without the help of regular passengers, taking into account their number, to cover operational expenses of the cruise ship; I am not sure Retreat guests could have access to the experience they have nowadays.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for a great summary of the issue at hand. Those who denigrate these kinds of comments, or consider it useless "complaining" are missing the point.  Celebrity is moving more and more to a class system that will dissuade 70% of the passengers and move them elsewhere. What a shame.

[retiredtraveler70]

On 10/10/2024 at 5:41 AM, TeeRick said:

Agree.  I'll never understand why a cruise line and a luxury vacation should be "egalitarian" in the minds of some.  Why?  It is not a government or an "ism".  It is a buyer's vacation choice with their own money and nothing more.  People do not need to cruise if they are put off by that. 

 

It's hilarious to watch the Celebrity fan-boys cover their views on this subject. Just for the record, no one suggests that people shouldn't get more when they pay more. The only thing that makes it a truly obnoxious "class" system is when those perks are taken away from the bulk of the passengers. That's the only comment made here, one that you and others keep forgetting. 

[RichYak]

15 minutes ago, retiredtraveler70 said:

Wow, did you get it wrong here Spif. "We all agree" -- Really? Read the responses. MANY of them agree that Celebrity is promoting an internal class system...

You are correct. Celebrity literally designed E-class ships with the Retreat in mind first.

[retiredtraveler70]

On 10/10/2024 at 7:52 AM, montythecat said:

This is a genuinely interesting debate and I have some 

sympathies with both sides of it. On the whole, I just about

favour the  “if you have paid more you deserve more”

approach although it does need to be handled with sensitivity.

However, one of our main pleasures on our cruises is

enjoying a forward facing lounge which is now no more on 

the Edge Class ships unless you are in a suite. We only ever

book fairly standard balconies. On X our Elite Plus status

did not give us a lot of benefits, although tender priorities 

and booking in were always appreciated.

 

So, with, in our opinions, declining dining room standards 

(food and service) we have joined the “Celebrity refugees”

elsewhere. That involves HAL with superior dining

experiences, music to our tastes (ok, I admit to liking

very loud electric rock bands) and no thumping musak

being piped around the X ships. If we need to treat 

ourselves we go to Viking, Azamara and now Silversea. A

very recent cruise from Alaska to Japan on Silver Muse

was delightful (our first on Silversea). By our standards

it was at the top of our normal budget but we hope to return.

 

The one near certainty is that Celebrity is unlikely to be in

our future cruise deliberations. In a way it is a pity, it

served us well and then it changed.

 

 

 

We feel the same way but I believe that Celebrity is a leader in the field, and when they recognize what the response is from people like us, they may be smart enough to stop taking perks away from one class and providing them to another. That's the key issue. I'm with you on spending our cruise dollars in a mix of lines, and we'll still be on Celebrity in the future if they can make sense out of this issue.

[zitsky]

13 minutes ago, retiredtraveler70 said:

 

We feel the same way but I believe that Celebrity is a leader in the field, and when they recognize what the response is from people like us, they may be smart enough to stop taking perks away from one class and providing them to another. That's the key issue. I'm with you on spending our cruise dollars in a mix of lines, and we'll still be on Celebrity in the future if they can make sense out of this issue.

So if a company gives you something for free they can never charge you for it?  They have no right to ever change their products?  
 

Is anyone forced to book a cruise on a ship they don’t like?  Celebrity “took away” MY balcony on Edge class.  I’m not happy about it, so I make other choices.

[At Sea At Peace]

12 minutes ago, RichYak said:

You are correct. Celebrity literally designed E-class ships with the Retreat in mind first.

 

10 minutes ago, retiredtraveler70 said:

 

We feel the same way but I believe that Celebrity is a leader in the field, and when they recognize what the response is from people like us, they may be smart enough to stop taking perks away from one class and providing them to another. That's the key issue. I'm with you on spending our cruise dollars in a mix of lines, and we'll still be on Celebrity in the future if they can make sense out of this issue.

 

Reading and reading this thread such a rumination of grumblings and griefs broadcast across society today.  Surprised and yet not surprised.  Although could have quoted dozens of posts, just picked the last two to chime in.

 

1. Celebrity needed to address the ship-within-a-ship phenomenon that propelled MSC via the Yacht Club after NCL birthed the Haven.  For sea ships (not LUX lines), they have been wildly successful.  Celebrity needed to offer something like them, or close, and they did.

 

2. Classes of staterooms, amenities and public areas, priorities and perks are part of the purchase package. Like Disney's Genie or Universals On-Site Hotels with 'front of the line' benefits, it is what it is.  You want it, you pay for it. Are they being called out for 'taking away the ride or seat from the regular customer' (that chose what they bought)? No.

 

3. It's not a 'zero sum game' situation.  This social societal concept embraced by many that if someone has something better than me or mine they took it from me and others like me is laconic yet misplaced.

 

4. Finally, all the sea ship lines do it.  To isolate Celebrity as the sole culprit and one is taking their ball and going home to another line is, at best, incautious.

 

 

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, retiredtraveler70 said:

 

Sorry, but I'm not a fan-boy. I love Celebrity, but I also love other lines. We're just cruise junkies. This isn't a complaint fest Mr. or Ms. Sanger -- it's a pointed note about how on one group of ships (E-class) they've taken the approach of removing benefits from the 70% of passengers and calling them perks to others (who pay for it). My thought is that it's best for cruise lines to provide a basic level of excellence across food and entertainment and then to add fresh, new perks for those who want more. Roping off seats in the theater? That's a completely bonehead move.

 I'm not a fan boy either.  But you are clearly picking and choosing your examples to make this sound worse than it is.  You can easily cruise celebrity and have your "foward facing" lounge.  You can also easily cruise celebrity and have your pick of theater seats. 

[Cruise a holic]

I have sailed on many cruise lines.  Most do have segregated areas for suite guests.  On the Beyond, you get a wonderful suite deck- and suite lounge- but you must pay extra- the lounge, suite deck  and the Coastal kitchen are the only areas reserved for suite guests- also, in the theatre on formal nights a section of seats- not ideal are also reserved for suite guests.  However if you sail in a balcony cabin or an inside cabin, you have access to all of the ship areas except the three mentioned.

 

We love the "suite life" and will pay much more for an entry level suite to enjoy the perks above- However, if not in your budget, the inside, window and balcony cabins are wonderful.  Not a fan of Aqua.

[zitsky]

1 minute ago, Cruise a holic said:

I have sailed on many cruise lines.  Most do have segregated areas for suite guests.  On the Beyond, you get a wonderful suite deck- and suite lounge- but you must pay extra- the lounge, suite deck  and the Coastal kitchen are the only areas reserved for suite guests- also, in the theatre on formal nights a section of seats- not ideal are also reserved for suite guests.  However if you sail in a balcony cabin or an inside cabin, you have access to all of the ship areas except the three mentioned.

 

We love the "suite life" and will pay much more for an entry level suite to enjoy the perks above- However, if not in your budget, the inside, window and balcony cabins are wonderful.  Not a fan of Aqua.

You mean to tell me you don’t have to get past the coop committee to cruise in the Retreat?  They take anyone’s money?  How disappointing.  😂

[Cruise a holic]

1 minute ago, zitsky said:

You mean to tell me you don’t have to get past the coop committee to cruise in the Retreat?  They take anyone’s money?  How disappointing.  😂

Don’t understand your issue?  The retreat is for suite guests.  Book a suite, pay the fare and enjoy. Suite passengers typically pay three or more times more for their suites, then do lower cost cabins who enjoy the same venues except what i mentioned.  Consider the other cabins a bargain. 

[zitsky]

6 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

Don’t understand your issue?  The retreat is for suite guests.  Book a suite, pay the fare and enjoy. Suite passengers typically pay three or more times more for their suites, then do lower cost cabins who enjoy the same venues except what i mentioned.  Consider the other cabins a bargain. 

Well if we’re going to have a class system shouldn’t it be a good one?  You can’t be suggesting that Celebrity lets just anyone into the Retreat?  😂 
 

Hint, if anyone can buy in it’s not a class system.  It’s called capitalism.  Celebrity is not a 501c(3).

[kirtihk]

17 minutes ago, Cruise a holic said:

Don’t understand your issue?  The retreat is for suite guests.  Book a suite, pay the fare and enjoy. Suite passengers typically pay three or more times more for their suites, then do lower cost cabins who enjoy the same venues except what i mentioned.  Consider the other cabins a bargain. 

People who cruised on other 2 Celebrity classes state that they feel "robbed" (segregated) by Celebrity for not being able to enjoy the front open area deck and inside area with front ocean view area of the ship.  They don't discuss paying more or less for a cabin and restaurants.

[zitsky]

18 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

People who cruised on other 2 Celebrity classes state that they feel "robbed" (segregated) by Celebrity for not being able to enjoy the front open area deck and inside area with front ocean view area of the ship.  They don't discuss paying more or less for a cabin and restaurants.

Can anyone show a Celebrity page that says “Yes, on Edge class everyone has access to the front of the ship”?

 

Trust me on this.  I am pretty sure you will still figure out where you’re going.

[Orator]

They must be doing something right. Look at the stock price and reports about the company.

Edited October 11 by Orator

[Spif Barwunkel]

Once again, building ships with the intent of inducing a class system is absurd. We all agree. How one defines his/her experiences aboard ship is open to any number of interpretations, none of which truly defines a class system. Using the OP's example. I am escorted to a particular roped off section in the theater, walking right past a bewildered and somewhat angry OP whose admission has been denied. Naturally, it is my assumption that the OP is roped off for a valid reason. Whether it be lack of wealth, social status, culture or any other acceptable reason, there I go and there he stays. As it should be, and just as Celebrity intended it to be. Actually, I like it. I know where I deserve to go and you know where you belong. Very cool. How absurd.

 

P.S. If given the opportunity, I will definitely play inside the ropes while not begrudging others for doing so.       

[zitsky]

I just looked at deck plans because it’s been a while since I sailed on Beyond.  Don’t they have windows, FORWARD looking windows, in the Fitness Center on Edge class?  Is that space reserved for Retreat passengers? 

[NMTraveller]

2 hours ago, zitsky said:

Is anyone forced to book a cruise on a ship they don’t like?  Celebrity “took away” MY balcony on Edge class.  I’m not happy about it, so I make other choices.

Few choices...  I almost ended up in a IV myself 🙈🤣

[At Sea At Peace]

Way too much micro offended citations, all with underlying false premise that 'if you pay more, you should get more' and 'if you do, you took it away from others.'

 

Absurd.

 

More appropriate, the inappropriate inference that Celebrity is the sole 'culprit' and doing it to make money or appease the upper classes of passengers.

 

Yikes.

 

The macro, and not a culprit thesis, is that NCL and MSC, in all of their new builds in the past decade, as well as proposed ships on order, designate the front upper decks of the ships for the 'ship within a ship' stateroom or suite selection, private lounge, dining and sundeck.

 

Imagine the outrage is Celebrity provided Retreat guests with wristbands or key cards with "elevator overrides" to all the Retreat guests to essentially get their own elevator in priority over all others?

 

Celebrity doesn't.

 

MSC does and Yacht Club guests can!!!

 

Oh the outrage.  🤫

 

[awhcruiser]

17 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

Way too much micro offended citations, all with underlying false premise that 'if you pay more, you should get more' and 'if you do, you took it away from others.'

 

Absurd.

 

More appropriate, the inappropriate inference that Celebrity is the sole 'culprit' and doing it to make money or appease the upper classes of passengers.

 

 

 

Oh the outrage.  🤫

 

Totally agree!