Greedy airlines

[kenish]

Well, I'm going to post and then cease and desist.

 

I agree with your propaganda statement. The link is certainly a good example of "feel good" pablum for the masses. Although it's factually correct that 2008 was a profitable year, Q3 had a small loss (forecast was a modest profit) and the losses have unfortunately increased in the following 3 quarters. My "propaganda" is from SEC filings from WN themselves as well as a disreputable rag called the Wall Street Journal. As you know, both are very tolerant of misrepresentations from public corporations. :)

 

Wrapping up, WN is a great airline but their "value proposition" does not work for me personally. I use them every few years when my needs match what they have to offer. I'm a "moderate" traveler who goes on 3-4 biz trips and 1-2 leisure trips annually. Last June we went to Oz and in 2008 to Alaska using FF miles. That's our leisure travel pattern and it wouldn't have been possible on Rapid Rewards. OTOH my neighbor uses WN a lot as their routes are convenient for customer visits, and their vacations are to visit relatives in the Midwest and NC....a legacy would not work as well for him.

[Sargent_Schultz]

There is not one perfect airline for everyone or for all situations.

 

That does not change that SW has been profitable most of the time. I suggest you misinterpreted what you read. I would question again your statement of "The winning streak (17 years BTW) ended a few quarters ago" - which vat of KoolAid did that come from? The final numbers for 2009 are not out.

 

All without charging a dime for the first two bags of luggage.

[flhokie]

For once, you are correct.

 

Since when does WN not charge for alcoholic beverages??? On my Southwest flight last week (hopefully the only one this year) they listed charges for those beverages.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Since when does WN not charge for alcoholic beverages??? On my Southwest flight last week (hopefully the only one this year) they listed charges for those beverages.

 

They do, unless you have drink coupons.

 

It isn't nickle and diming because no domestic airline has routinely given away free cocktails this century and SW charges less than the legacy airlines for the same product. $5 is reasonable for a cocktail. Other than nickle and diming, why do legacy airlines charge $7 +/- for the same product?

[scottbee]

They do, unless you have drink coupons.

 

It isn't nickle and diming because no domestic airline has routinely given away free cocktails this century and SW charges less than the legacy airlines for the same product. $5 is reasonable for a cocktail. Other than nickle and diming, why do legacy airlines charge $7 +/- for the same product?

 

That's because there are very few domestic airlines. WN and G4 are the only two I can think of that fail to serve international destinations.

 

As for drinks, I happily enjoy free wine and beer on QX, who provide this to all passengers free of charge.

[lovesublime]

Was it wages or benefits that killed the US Auto Industry?

 

SW flies 1 plane with several models - 737s. They have no need for pilots who can fly other kinds, nor the ability to maintain and service them.

 

 

 

Southwest also doesn't train pilots on the 737. Pilots wishing to work for Southwest must already be type rated or acquire the rating at their own expense within six months.

[Sargent_Schultz]

"The airlines reported collecting nearly $740 million in baggage fees in the third quarter of 2009, according to U.S. Bureau of Transportation Statistics."

 

Not a bad haul for something that should be free.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

Again YOU are mistaken, with the possible exception of BA, which nobody flies. Several airlines have no business or first class and make profits. SW has had 36 or is it 37 consecutive profitable years.

 

If costs aren't covered, there is no profit and the only way to cover costs is to fill seats.

 

Once again, I hope you don't pull a muscle patting yourself on the back.

 

 

Actually you are wrong. Look past WN for a second. Why do you think all these large International Airlines (Emirates, Cathay Pacific, Singapore etc) are/were getting very worried when the economy crashed they said their J and F cabins were not selling even though their Y cabins continued to be booked up.

 

Sell 200 seats at 800 bucks thats 160,000.

 

sell 40 Business seats at 7,000 thats 280,000

 

sell 10 first suites at 13,000 thats 130,000.

 

200 Coach ticket sales = 160,000

50 premium cabin sales =411,000.

 

 

Its all about the J and F cabin sales.

[Globaliser]

... with the possible exception of BA, which nobody flies.

No, obviously not. Nobody. Noone at all.

The anti-SW crowd sure is working overtime.

Oh trust me, I'm not anti-WN. I'm just enjoying every further dose of inconsistent and untrue nonsense, and seeing how much more might come.

 

As for luggage fees, if you had a choice between airline A which wants $200 for the ticket and $25 for the first checked bag, and airline B which wants $250 for the ticket with a free first bag, would you choose the latter?

[Sargent_Schultz]

Actually you are wrong. Look past WN for a second. Why do you think all these large International Airlines (Emirates, Cathay Pacific, Singapore etc) are/were getting very worried when the economy crashed they said their J and F cabins were not selling even though their Y cabins continued to be booked up.

 

Sell 200 seats at 800 bucks thats 160,000.

 

sell 40 Business seats at 7,000 thats 280,000

 

sell 10 first suites at 13,000 thats 130,000.

 

200 Coach ticket sales = 160,000

50 premium cabin sales =411,000.

 

 

Its all about the J and F cabin sales.

 

Amazing how many people keep bringing up non-US airlines which are outside the scope. Most US cruisers don't fly any of the above. Those airlines should be worried. They configured a cabin (probably many cabins) with an incorrect mix of seats.

 

On a typical AA Domestic 757 there are 12 first class seats and 166 coach seats. An international 757 has 8 premium first class seats and 166 coach.

 

A typical AA MD80 has 8 FC seats and about 125 coach seats.

 

No way can 8-12 premium seat sales (and some will be nonrev) pay for the plane to get off the ground.

[Sargent_Schultz]

 

As for luggage fees, if you had a choice between airline A which wants $200 for the ticket and $25 for the first checked bag, and airline B which wants $250 for the ticket with a free first bag, would you choose the latter?

 

It depends - possibly.

 

Which would YOU choose?

[Globaliser]

It would certainly depend, and on lots of things other than price too.

 

But if I chose airline A in part because it was cheaper overall, when everything was taken into account, I certainly wouldn't be claiming that the baggage should have been free, or that I had been raped by the airline.

 

Which is why it's funny to see you making blanket complaints about those airlines that do charge baggage fees. Surely it all depends?

[scottbee]

Nit Nit Nit.

 

That's all you have to say when you're wrong?

 

Amazing how many people keep bringing up non-US airlines which are outside the scope. Most US cruisers don't fly any of the above. Those airlines should be worried. They configured a cabin (probably many cabins) with an incorrect mix of seats.

 

You're the one that keeps wanting to talk about Air Namibia and Air Asia.

[Sargent_Schultz]

In a number of markets, SW is not only the price leader but also includes two free checked bags. The legacy airlines charging extra for check bags on the same routes are just being greedy.

 

The same can be said for Jet Blue albeit only 1 free checked bag.

 

The legacy airlines are bonafide greedy.

[YXU AC*SE]

Why must we continue to feed the troll.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Why must we continue to feed the troll.

 

Excuse me? Oh yes, more name calling and thread hijacking by people with no vested interest in the topic.

[paul929207]

I see on another thread that SouthWest is charging $10 to check your bags at the pier in Fort Lauderdale,

 

Sounds like a nickel and dime move to me.

[Sargent_Schultz]

I see on another thread that SouthWest is charging $10 to check your bags at the pier in Fort Lauderdale,

 

Sounds like a nickel and dime move to me.

 

Sounds like a new additional service SW is offering. They really understand their customer base. The bags will still fly free. I know of similar services for legacy airlines that charge $25 in addition to the unconscionable luggage fees of $50 or more.

 

Yet another area where SW is less expensive than the bloated, greedy, legacy airlines. Kudos to SW.

[Globaliser]

Sounds like a new additional service SW is offering. They really understand their customer base.

My congratulations, Sargent_Schultz. I didn't know that you were a student of Yes, Minister.

Bernard:

It's one of those irregular verbs. I have an independent mind; you are an eccentric; he is round the twist.

 

Bernard:

That's another of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I give confidential briefings; you leak; he's being charged under section 2A of the Official Secrets Act.

[paul929207]

my congratulations, sargent_schultz. I didn't know that you were a student of yes, minister.

bernard:

it's one of those irregular verbs. I have an independent mind; you are an eccentric; he is round the twist.

 

bernard:

that's another of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I give confidential briefings; you leak; he's being charged under section 2a of the official secrets act.

:) :) :)

[6rugrats]

My congratulations, Sargent_Schultz. I didn't know that you were a student of Yes, Minister.

Bernard:

It's one of those irregular verbs. I have an independent mind; you are an eccentric; he is round the twist.

 

Bernard:

That's another of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I give confidential briefings; you leak; he's being charged under section 2A of the Official Secrets Act.

 

 

That's spot on!

[swigso]

You Know what,

I just booked two return tickets Manchester Uk to Orlando for my Son and Grandson,

The total cost was £620 (about $1000),

however the actual fares were £121 for the adult and £78 for the child.

The additional £420 ($670 ) went to the Government in Taxes.

 

GREADY AIRLINES OR A VERY GREEDY GOVERNMENT?????

[Gardyloo]

You Know what,

I just booked two return tickets Manchester Uk to Orlando for my Son and Grandson,

The total cost was £620 (about $1000),

however the actual fares were £121 for the adult and £78 for the child.

The additional £420 ($670 ) went to the Government in Taxes.

 

GREADY AIRLINES OR A VERY GREEDY GOVERNMENT?????

Actually I'll bet you ten quid the extra was for "taxes and fees" of which the lion's share was for fuel surcharges imposed by the airline, not government taxes.

 

Don't know your particulars, but here's a sample fare for March, using Virgin Atlantic's nonstop from MAN to MCO. Note the bolded line - "VS YQ surcharge." VS is Virgin Atlantic's airline code (if it was a BA ticket it would say "BA YQ") and YQ is the universal shorthand for a fuel surcharge. It is NOT a tax, despite being shown as such on this list. It's an additional payment to the airline to cover its fuel costs. Some airlines charge separately for the fuel surcharge (VS, BA) while others just build it into their base fares (AA for example.)

 

Actual UK taxes on this fare are £55.10.

 

Fare (A1): VS MANORL OLXMEG fare (rules) , psgr type ADT £98.50

Fare (A2): VS ORLMAN OLXMEG fare (rules) , psgr type ADT £98.50

Tax: USDA APHIS Fee $5.00

Tax: US Immigration Fee $7.00

Tax: US Customs Fee $5.50

Tax: United Kingdom Air Passengers Duty £45.00

Tax: United Kingdom Passenger Service Charge £10.10

Tax: US International Arrival Tax $16.10

Tax: VS YQ surcharge £111.00

Tax: US International Departure Tax $16.10

Tax: US September 11th Security Fee $2.50

Tax: US Passenger Facility Charge $4.50

Total for 1 adult passenger: £398.60

[Globaliser]

The total cost was £620 (about $1000),

however the actual fares were £121 for the adult and £78 for the child.

The additional £420 ($670 ) went to the Government in Taxes.

 

GREADY AIRLINES OR A VERY GREEDY GOVERNMENT?????

It would help to have the correct figures.

 

A little over half (about £115) of the "additional" £200 per person goes to the airline. The fact that this is broken out separately from the base fare is of no concern to the standard retail customer. There is no difference between a base fare of £121 + £115 add-ons, and a base fare of £236 with no add-ons. UK advertising rules mean that both of those fares would be advertised as the same amount.

 

Of the rest, about £45 goes to the UK government, and about £35 to the US government. Part of this money pays for the immigration and customs services that you use when you travel.

 

The remainder that doesn't go to the government goes to the airports to pay for the services that you use there when you travel.

 

So, greedy airlines or greedy governments? Any criticism is better made on the basis of the true picture.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Greedy Airlines.