Just done St Petersburg by ourselves - tips and advice

[pacmom]

Thanks to both independent posters. In three weeks we are taking a river cruise--Moscow-St.Pete. We have already toured St.P. with Alla, so was glad to see suggestions for other out of ordinary stops. We are also public transit users whenever possible and have to see local supermarkets and eat where the locals do. Tahnks, again. Pat

[cruisemom42]

CANAL CRUISE

There are some english or multilingual companies.

Our company just gave us mp3 players and you could choose your language.

 

Could retrieve name/location if some are interested.

 

It's not to be missed as the views are really spectacular from the ship.

 

 

Toonye

 

 

Thanks for adding your input. This is really useful information! :) I would love to have the name and location for the Canal cruise that you did.

[toonye]

Hi!

 

I'm happy to read you found our stuff useful!

 

Regarding canal cruise, the one we took was situated long

 

if you enter this in google maps, you'll be near kempinski

just look to your left to the canal

and on the right side of the canal, you can actually see a boat (there are many of them on the opposite site too)

 

naberezhnaya reki Moyki, 26, gorod Sankt-Peterburg, Russie

 

I think it was 550 roubles pp for about one hour, including a glass a mineral water or "champagne" (sparkling wine!)

 

We got mp3 players with the comments in many languages , you could just pick your one

 

Otherwise, there is the "anglotourismo" boat situated at the corner of Fontanki and nesvy prospekt, on the north side of the bridge

 

they offer cruises with an english speaking guide and have a very nice website

They also offer guided walking tours within the city-in english!

 

Enjoy!

Toonye

[shoshona2]

Thanks Minsterman and Toonye for posting all the wonderful info on doing SPB on your own. We have been there twice before -- the first time was many many years ago when there were long lines to obtain food and we used the ship's tour and the second time in 2003 when we used the services of a private guide (Red October). We are booked on a Russian river cruise in 2011 and will probably do SPB on our own. When I brought up the website for the on-off buses, I just couldn't believe that SPB has come so far. Thanks for the info on the canal boats and the metro. We, also, love to explore on our own. We just returned from a Rhine/Moselle River Boat cruise and spent two days in Basel, Switzerland riding their public transportation all around the city and suburbs. We even found that one of the department stores has a food court in the basement. When our friends arrived, we took them there for lunch. It was indeed wonderful.

 

Sheila

[alcpa1]

Much has changed in St. Petersburg since my first visit six years ago, but much remains the same...distance.

If you are visiting St. Petersburg for the first time you will find it easy, and safe, to walk from the Peter and Paul Fortress to the Church of Spilt Blood. That's not to say that it is a short walk just that it can be done.

A boat ride to Peterhof is certainly a wonderful option but neither the bus nor subway can get you to the Tsarskoye Selo (Catherine Palace) and Pavlovsk and probably not the Cathedral of Peter and Paul a short distance from Peterhof.

If I were to return I too would probably go through the unbelievable VISA application and not take a guided tour, but I have been in St. Petersburg and have seen many remarkable changes.

My best advice is planning including where to find transportation, where to dine, and how many rubels you will need for the WC's. Study the maps and calculate your route. Look for lesser known attractions like the Yusopov Palace where Rasputin was killed, take walking tours of other city palaces many of which are now businesses along Nevsky Prospect.

I too think I can do it.

 

P.S. Small ships like our Azamara Journey and an Oceania ship were docked in town along the Neva. I do not know if this will continue in the future.

Edited August 27, 2010 by alcpa1

[Ashland]

Thanks so much for your post..very interesting..We opted for a private tour just DH and myself (Aug 17&18th) even though it was pricey we felt we got the most for our money since this was our first trip..The details of Russian history, on the go flexability,avoiding long lines and the Stolle pie cafe and a favorite Russian Bakery for lunches both days made this an unforgetable trip..The two day "very" active tour allowed us to see as much as was physically possible..No matter how you decide to see the city..you can't go wrong !!!

[buggins0402]

Thanks so much for starting this thread. Contemplating a Baltic and was wondering if it could be done DIY because the tours I saw just didn't spend enough time in the Hermitage and weren't flexible enough. We just went to Moscow this past May on our own on a land based (found a great flight price and did a long Memorial Day weekend trip) and for us it was just like any big city, once we got through the administrative issue of getting a visa. So traveling DIY in St. Petersburg shouldn't be an issue for us - we already have had our Russia DIY training with Moscow. Also looking at doing a Norway cruise from Copenhagen or Amsterdam and taking a flight to St. Pete where we could spend the 4 days this city actually needs. You've provided some information to chew on.

[Jesse1313]

Please don't travel in St. Petersburg and lull yourself into

feeling safe. There is lots of crime. After coming back from

there last week... two in our group were robbed of their wallets

by a team of thieves and in minutes had wracked up huge bills

with computers, cell phones, tires and voldka... we were warned

over and over about the situation. Everywhere there is tourists there

is crime, but you have to be very, very carefull there.

[cruisemom42]

Please don't travel in St. Petersburg and lull yourself into

feeling safe. There is lots of crime. After coming back from

there last week... two in our group were robbed of their wallets

by a team of thieves and in minutes had wracked up huge bills

with computers, cell phones, tires and voldka... we were warned

over and over about the situation. Everywhere there is tourists there

is crime, but you have to be very, very carefull there.

 

Hmmm....... well, we are a family of travelers and here are some of our experiences over the years:

 

I had my wallet lifted in Barcelona.

 

BIL was surrounded by gypsies who attempted to get his cash on the local train in Naples.

 

ExH was accosted by gypsies on the Spanish steps in Rome; by the time he waved them off, they'd nearly cut through the strap of his waist pack.

 

FIL had his wallet lifted in Paris subway.

 

Cousin was mugged in NYC at knifepoint.

 

 

So........ I guess we just shouldn't travel on our own anywhere? :rolleyes:

[minsterman]

After coming back from

there last week... two in our group were robbed of their wallets

by a team of thieves and in minutes had wracked up huge bills

with computers, cell phones, tires and voldka... we were warned

over and over about the situation. Everywhere there is tourists there

is crime, but you have to be very, very carefull there.

 

I agree that you have to be careful - but I don't think that this should put anyone off going to St Petersburg on their own. My OH was VERY worried before she went to SPB as everyone had been saying it wasn't safe. In the end she couldn't see what the fuss was about. I'm sure if she had been robbed she might have felt differently (but this is true of any place) - but because of the warnings we were extremely careful. We wore money belts with anything important in and kept our cameras wrapped around our wrist.

 

Is this really any different to what you would do in any big city?

 

Also - you say 2 people in your GROUP were robbed. This implies you were not travelling independently so all you prove really is that anyone can be robbed in SPB and it is nothing to do with whether you travel independently or not. If I wanted, I could put a different slant on it and say that travelling in a group is more dangerous - I went independently and was not robbed!

 

Seriously though, I think that however you travel you have to be careful and aware of who is around you at all times. I believe that the thieves work in groups and in busy areas near a lot of the tourist attractions. In this case, being on your own or in a group is irrelevant. The thieves will target who they think is the easiest target - they have no idea how you got there or how many people you are with - only whether or not you have something they can steal off you easily. In fact, does being in a group give you a false sense of security and make it easier to steal from someone in a group? When you are in a group you sometimes have other considerations - such as listening to/ following the tour guide which may distract you.

 

In all honesty we found SPB to be no different to New York/ Paris / London or any other large city. Yes, some people will be robbed in SPB - that's life, these things happen everywhere. But for anyone who decides not to do SPB on their own because of the threat of being robbed - you could take a tour in SPB and STILL get robbed. Or be fine in SPB and get robbed in Copenhagen / Tallinn or any of the other ports.

 

Having been to SPB I would say don't let the security factor be the only factor when deciding whether or not to go independently.

[4774Papa]

Hi

There are at least 6 of us cruising northern europe next summer. We would like a private, english speaking tour of St. Petersburg, Helsinki, and Copenhagen. Do you have any recomendations?

Thanks

 

 

My Son was on a Baltic cruise and their group used Red October tour company. They were very pleased with the tour. No visa was required.

[Paula48]

Hi

There are at least 6 of us cruising northern europe next summer. We would like a private, english speaking tour of St. Petersburg, Helsinki, and Copenhagen. Do you have any recomendations?

Thanks

 

We just returned from a Baltic cruise. Our St. Petersburg guide was very good. The four of us had already spent 3 days in St. Petersburg on a previous trip , so we wanted something different. We had been to the Hermitage, the Peterhof, the Catherine Palace, the Yusupov Palace, etc. Sergey gave us just what we asked for. He also does conventional tours and is flexible about group size. The four of us agreed to squeeze into his car and our price was $28/hr. PLUS $50/person for the "group waiver" to get us off the boat and through immigration. We paid for our own museum entries. For 10 hours, we paid $70/person for Sergey's time +$50 for the visa. With our entries, the day ended up costing about $150 each. For a private tour with only 4 people, this is an exceptional price.

For more than 4 people, Sergey gets a driver and they do a minivan tour. He is quite flexible.

Sergey is a former English teacher and a very good guide. He has no Russian accent. Contact him at sergey@mail.rcom.ru.

Paula

[onespots]

We are just back from Jewel of the Seas. We were in St Petersburg for 2 days (docked overnight).

 

Before we did the cruise we found it very difficult to find any information about touring St Petersburg on our own (ie not on a cruise ship or independent tour). However, I was (dgf not too happy!) determined to go it alone and now we are back and still in one piece we thought we would share our thoughts and answer any queries anybody has.

 

In short, we found it no different to going to any other country where you don't speak the language and with which you are not familiar.

 

To go into more detail: we are from the UK and so had to get a Visa in order to get into St Petersburg without doing a tour. However, this was quite easy. We used www.visitrussia.com to get our Visas. It was slightly more expensive than trying to do the application completely independently but they were very helpful answering queries and the application form was easy to follow.

 

We had a rough plan of what we wanted to see before getting there but were slightly concerned about the practicalities eg getting from the cruise terminal into the city but we needn't have worried. When we got off the ship we sailed through immigration which is in the new passenger terminal building. On the other side of immigration are shops, ATM etc but most importantly a taxi desk complete with English speaking taxi dispatcher. As we were getting our bearings, he approached us to see if we needed a taxi, which we did. There is no "taxi rank" as such however, he made a phone call and within a couple of minutes a taxi arrived. We asked about price and the dispatcher explained that it was a fixed price of 600 roubles (about £15 / $25) to the Hermitage / city centre. He also asked if we needed a taxi back to the terminal in the evening. We said no because we weren't sure of timings and so he wrote down in Russian the name and address of the terminal for us to give to a taxi driver for when we wanted to come back. He also said we should agree a price before getting in the taxi.

 

When we were ready to return that evening, although they weren't as readily available as London or New York it was still fairly easy to find a taxi (we left the centre of SPB at about 22.45). The taxi driver initially said 800 roubles but we agreed on 700 and he stuck to this when we got back to the ship). The drive there / back took about 15/20 minutes each way and out of the 4 taxis that we got 2 of the 4 drivers spoke reasonably good English, 1 spoke enough to get by/ negotiate a price and the fourth we are not sure about as the taxi dispatcher spoke to him!

 

The second morning was just as easy and the driver obviously trying to drum up business offered to take us on a tour to Catherines Palace or wherever else we wanted to go. Whilst we didn't take him up on this offer had we wanted to do this we would have felt comfortable enough to have done this with him.

 

On Day 1 we spent the morning (2.5 hours) in the Hermitage and this was a very very brief visit. If you like this sort of thing you need at least a day there. We then went to Peterhof using the hydrofoil which leave from the riverbank directly in front of the Hermitage. There are several companies to choose from. It costs about 500 roubles each way per person and takes 30 minutes.

 

On our return from Peterhof we spent the evening wandering around some of the sights in SPB. We felt comfortable wandering the streets by ourselves if you are used to big cities.

 

Obviously, common sense should be used at all times as there are plenty of stories about pickpockets etc as there are in plenty of other cities. With a sensible approach this shouldn't be any more of a concern than anywhere else and my gf felt very safe compared to what she was expecting.

 

We went on a Canal tour in the evening but found out that the only English tour with the company we went with was at 4pm - a time which wouldn't have suited us either day so just went on the Russian tour anyway.

 

On Day 2 we just spent the day wandering SPB seeing some of the sights (Church on Spilled Blood, Peter and Paul Fortress, St Isaacs Cathedral, Nevsky Prospect). We also went on the underground. This was fairly easy (think London). The station names in the centre were in both Russian and English and despite the language barrier we pointed to the station we wanted to go to on the map and the assistant gave us the relevant token.

 

Our only very slight issue was the food. Although there were plenty of places to eat in the centre many of the menus were just in Russian. We ended up eating at a hotel which had a menu in English but this was expensive. We did struggle a little bit finding somewhere for a snack at lunchtime on Day 2 (Day 1 ate at Hermitage cafe). However, rather sadly you can always rely on McDonalds (!!) although even that took a fair bit of finger pointing to get the right food as English wasn't really spoken there.

 

We really enjoyed the freedom that we had by doing it independently (no following groups or being shepherded around at a set pace and we could spend as long as we wanted in any particular place). However, having talked to people who were on a tour (ship's tour), we appreciate they had probably learnt more about the history and interesting facts than we had but hadn't seen as much as we had.

 

All in all, we would thoroughly recommend doing SPB truly on your own. If anyone has any more specific questions we will try and answer them!

 

Thank you Ministerman,

 

Your post gave us the courage to try to do some of St. Petesrburg & Moscow on our own. The metro info was useful & we are happy we tried it. We found the St. Peterburg metro easier to get around. A good map & knowing the locations you want to visit helped. Because we read no Russian, we simply counted the stops till we reached our destination. It worked perfectly. Made our time in town more enjoyable as our sites were within easy walking distance.

 

Moscow was a different story as they have many lines into the city and you must transfer to get to some sites. It is a large city with estimated population of 25 million plus with over 10 million using the metro everyday. Still we liked it, but more confusing for us. Your tip about asking young Russians under 30 yrs really helped us in Moscow. Most spoke English & wanted to help us. I felt very safe in Moscow & was surprised how clean this city is for so many people & tough weather conditions. Just returned on this trip 10/01/10. John

[Hlitner]

We do congratulate the OP for doing their own thing. We also did this although it was on a cruise a few years ago. Of the approximately 1500 on our cruise ship (Maasdam) there were only 4 passengers who decided to obtain their own Russian Visas and go off on their own. Our experience was similar to yours (wonderful) and we enjoyed every minute in St Petersburg. Taking the hydrofoil to Peterhof was a delight (much more comfy than the cruise tours which used buses) and a real highlight. Our tour of the Hermitage was amazing because we happened to hire our own guide outside the museum who had previously worked in the Heritage (he was a guide) who got us in the museum for the Russian price (only a few cents per person). We paid him well, but with the money we saved for the admission plus the various tour costs we actually saved money and had our own personal guide (shared with a US embassy person we met in the line). We were able to see things not on the normal group tours (such as the impressionist paintings) and it was delight to tour the museum with a guide and only three tourists. Given the hassles and cost of the current Russian Visas we do think most cruise passengers would do better to book a private tour that includes a Visa (the licensed local tour companies can handle the visa issues) as opposed to the "cattle calls" also known as cruise line excursions.

 

Hank

Edited October 3, 2010 by Hlitner

[JoeyJoJoShabadu]

I read this thread and others before we left. We did SPB on our own as well. It starts with the Visa. You need to apply; fill out the forms, get passport photos (get the correct size for a russian passport, 35 mm x 45 mm I believe), get an russian visa invitation from a tour company online for a nominal fee ($30 Canadian), money order for the visa cost (no credit cards are accepted). We had a consulate in Toronto so it was easy to go down, visit, supply a return courier envelope and they send back your passport with the visa. It was prompt. Total cost was about $250 for the 2 of us. It took a half day to compile it all, half day to go to the consulate.

 

After that... easy peasy. We went through customs and there is no problems. No issue about tours or who the invite was from, no questions. It takes a while to record all our info but we went through in about 15 minutes form the ship. We left later in the morning about 9. Every trip though immigration after the first is very fast and quicker.

 

BIg note here; There is a NEW CRUISE PORT. MAKE NOTE of where you are!!!! We made it back the first day but we realized with the route we drove in, we did not come from either of the 2 cruise ports in the book we had. The cruise port is on the island northwest of the hermitage, west of the fortress at the far west end, by the Park Inn. Taxis know where it is... but just make note of your port name/location.

 

Taxi stand on the pother side of immigration. Cost is $20, 20 euros or 600 rubles! Pay in rubles if you have it, if not there an ATm there for a fee no doubt. We took the taxi, paid euros and were dropped off by the hermitage. There is a Barclays bank and ATM on Nevsky "Road"just south from the hermitage and admiralty just past the bend. This was a no fee ATM for us so was awesome!

 

Take note of hours and days of operation. Churhces were closed on Wednsday, which we found out at our first stop.

 

We visited around west of the hermitage, the hermitage (order the pass online and skip the line please). Line took 25 minutes to get though. We walked down Nevksy (shopping and lunch, and a beer), saw a few smaller thinngs, walked up to church of spilled blood, museum and souvier market. Went back about 8 PM, tired. We are 45 and 35 btw... and semi-fit (I'm still overweight, but not hobbled!), and walk alot on cruise vacations.

 

Getting a taxi back takes some time. You want to end off by the Hermitage or a taxi stand. Not as easy to flag one down as most places. Took 15 minutes. That was after waiting 30 minutes for a cab we arranged to meet us. I wouldn't advise that. Just find one or call from a hotel. Price was all over from 400 to 1000 rubles. Didn't seem to be a bargaining price, just different opinions from different drivers. Considering the time it took to get one, we settled on 600 instead of finding a cheaper one. Tour times at Hemitage for the Gold and Diamond rooms and you can't see them without it (400 rubles each). Plan your day accordingly. Hermitage is massive... you will want to be picky what you want to see especially after an hour or two there.

 

Next day we cabbed to Peterhof (1200 rubles but we got a deal since its an hour drive - drive went by the Soviet, Gates and Monuement on way south though). Hydrofoil takes a half hour so its the same time to cab in and take hydrofoil there, as it is to take a taxi there. I would think most people take a cab to the hermitage and the hyrdofoil to peterhof and back (every 15-30 minutes, 2 companies there - be sure you use the right one on returning).

 

We came back form Peterhof about noon and had lunch, visited the inside of Church of spilled blood, peter and paul fortress (which was pretty dull and pointless), shopped, stop for pints. We did not get to see the "Seige Museum" or whatever its called.

 

SBP is very european. Not what we expected. Prettier. Sign reading is not easy but easy with a map (names look similar enough that you can tell where you are at). We spent about $500-600 total which included taxis, souveniers, lunch, visa costs etc.

 

Blocks (street blocks) in SPB are huge. Maps can be decieving making things look close when in fact walking around some big buildings must be a mile! We didn't use the subway but we understand its easy. We walked but in retrospect we could have taken the tube a couple times. OInly problem was there we not many stations , they are far apprt and we didnt have a decent map showing the streets AND the subway. download this as it would have been invaluable probably.

 

Currency of choiuce is ruble. anything else and your getting shafted in the exhange.

 

It was easy on our own. Everything I read made is seem like it would be hard. It wasn't. There are challenges with language and reading you don't have in other ports, but these are easily overcome. Some english is spoken. Bring a pencil and map for taxis and that should take care of most of it.

 

We enjoyed it greatly. Good luck.

[Mexfolkart]

Last time we had two days there. First day we took a city tour through the ship. Second day we went off on our own with our visas that we had gotten ahead of time. (Ships bus took us in town and dropped us off) Walked into the Church on Spilled Blood and went to pay, and, duh, realized that we did not have Rubles!! Off we went to a bank and exchanged our USD for Rubles..actually easy! I had a little book of russian with me so checked out how to ask for small bills, please, in Russian..when I did the dour teller smiled and the others inline clapped! Then everyone smiled when I said Thank you in Russian! Just glad no one asked ME a question!!! Back to the Church and afterwards to the market and over to Nevsky Prospekt and walked and walked..this is where we went to the little art market by the church on NP.

I had gotten someone on board to write down, in Russian, Please take us to our ship at Dock____...luckily they were honest doing that!! We LOVED our second day..the freedom to walk at will in Russia!! Our taxi driver back to the ship had long black hair, a black cape and Opera blaring from his radio! A perfect finish to our trip!

We go back next week for 3 days on our cruise with friends..we have booked a tour with SPB as we have to get a lot in for these days when things are closed etc. Just seemed easier..but if it were just the 2 of us would not hesitate doing it alone again. Just remember to get Rubles ahead of time..we have!!

Sherry

[r1955]

We are 4 couples on a Princess Baltic cruise in June. We are taking a private tour so that we'll be able to see as much as possible. In addition we thought of going into the city on our own at night just to walk around and maybe see the drawing of the bridges (which happens very late at night). I've heard that there are a lot of people out during the "white nights" so should be interesting. Any of the DIY people have any experience with that?

 

We don't need a visa so no problem there.

[Louloucruise]

Dear minsterman

your information has been extremely helpful for me and my husband who will visit SPB this coming August.

As we are only 2 , it is much more expensive to get a private shore excursion, so please let me know if you had to wait a long queue before entering the Hermitage museum and how did you get tickets ?? on line ??

additionally if we go on a boat tour, and wish to leave the tour to go then go on our own for dinner , do we need a visa ?

thank you for your reply

[fabnfortysomething]

Dear minsterman

your information has been extremely helpful for me and my husband who will visit SPB this coming August.

As we are only 2 , it is much more expensive to get a private shore excursion, so please let me know if you had to wait a long queue before entering the Hermitage museum and how did you get tickets ?? on line ??

additionally if we go on a boat tour, and wish to leave the tour to go then go on our own for dinner , do we need a visa ?

thank you for your reply

 

 

OK not minsterman but have a suggestion

 

you will need a visa if you leave an organised tour and understand it will be expensive for a private shore excursion for just you 2

 

However most people share costs by hooking up with other cruisers via their roll call-have you looked into that option?

 

the private tour companies may also be able to help you put together a group via their website if your roll call is quiet

[jklc123]

We will have limited time in St. Pete in May, apart from our river cruise tours. My question is: is it possible to walk to Peter & Paul Fortress from Hermitage? A long walk?

 

Thanks to those of you who have explored the city on your own.

[scubacruiserx2]

We will have limited time in St. Pete in May, apart from our river cruise tours. My question is: is it possible to walk to Peter & Paul Fortress from Hermitage? A long walk?

 

Thanks to those of you who have explored the city on your own.

 

Yes, the walk is down the Neva to the right from the Hermitage, across

 

the Troitskiy Most ( bridge) 2 km. or 1.25 miles. The picture looks back

 

across the Neva to the Hermitage, as you are entering the Fortress.

[minsterman]

Originally Posted by Louloucruise

 

Dear minsterman

your information has been extremely helpful for me and my husband who will visit SPB this coming August.

As we are only 2 , it is much more expensive to get a private shore excursion, so please let me know if you had to wait a long queue before entering the Hermitage museum and how did you get tickets ?? on line ??

additionally if we go on a boat tour, and wish to leave the tour to go then go on our own for dinner , do we need a visa ?

thank you for your reply

 

We just happened to visit the Hermitage on one of the "free" days (first Thursday each month), so whether this affected the queue length I'm not sure. However we hadn't realised that it didn't open until 10.30 so we arrived about 10.00-10.15 and it took us about 30 minutes to get in once the doors opened. I don't think you can get tickets in advance, you just buy them there and if you want to take photos you need to buy a permit along with your tickets (not expensive about £4).

 

It was all fairly easy and no different to going in to any other museum in Europe.

 

Yes you will need a visa if you leave a ship's tour to do anything on your own, although I understand that there are some ship's tours that do allow a little time away from the group without a visa.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Minsterman

Edited April 10, 2012 by minsterman

[electro]

Thank You for the info on DIY.

We are 3, myself DH and DD and the private excursion for 3 are $300 per person.:eek:

We are pretty sure we are going to do our own thing, I just cant justify $900 for one day.

We usually do DYI in ports so we are pretty comfortable with that.

Any other info on DYI would be greatly appreciated.

 

Lois

[fabnfortysomething]

Thank You for the info on DIY.

We are 3, myself DH and DD and the private excursion for 3 are $300 per person.:eek:

We are pretty sure we are going to do our own thing, I just cant justify $900 for one day.

We usually do DYI in ports so we are pretty comfortable with that.

Any other info on DYI would be greatly appreciated.

 

Lois

 

that sounds pretty high-we had a private excursion for 3 2 years ago and it was nearer £300 per person for the TWO days

have you priced the cost of visas?

[electro]

that sounds pretty high-we had a private excursion for 3 2 years ago and it was nearer £300 per person for the TWO days

have you priced the cost of visas?

 

Yeah, I thought it was outragious.

 

The cost of the Visa is $75 each. So that is $225 for the 3 of us, so I'm sure we can come way below $900 if we do our own thing.

 

Lois