My Experience in CL with Kids

[bajathree]

This is from an article from a business / software company describing how Royal Caribbean's Antichild policy in the concierge combined with poor website design / information set up suite guests for significant disappointment.

Source : http://www.sigmazone.com/Articles_KanosModel.htm

 

 

Almost any interaction with a company can generate an expectation. A conversation with a customer service representative, the content of a website, and marketing materials can all generate expectations. For example, on the previously mentioned Royal Caribbean cruise, I was fortunate enough to have a cabin that qualified for Royal Caribbean's "Concierge Service". At first, Concierge Service elicits thoughts of an English butler in white gloves and tails attending to your every need. These thoughts were quickly replaced by reality thanks to a quick Google search. Royal Caribbean’s website (update Feb 2011, new link) indicates that concierge service includes 24-hour access to the concierge lounge with complimentary hors d’ oeuvres from 5:00pm to 8:30pm. Not exactly a butler, but not bad none-the-less. The key elements of the text of their website at the writing of this article (July 2010) are below…

 

As a Concierge Club guest, you will be offered amenities and services not available to other guests including:

 

 

• A dedicated Concierge who is available to assist with anything you require
  
• Twenty-four-hour a day use of the Concierge Club Lounge
  
• Continental breakfast every morning and open bar & hors d'oeuvres every evening available in the Concierge Club Lounge
  

 

Based upon this information, I formed the expectation of using the concierge club for pre-dinner hors d’oeuvres, especially since I paid extra for the cabin that qualified for concierge service.

 

Upon arrival to my cabin, I found a letter from the concierge welcoming me to the Mariner of the Seas. However, at the bottom of the letter it stated “only guests of 18 years and above are permitted in the lounge between 5:00pm and 8:30pm. We respectfully request that guests use appropriate footwear and attire while in the lounge.”Click here to see a scanned image of the letter. You can see from the letter that the rationale for the restriction is that alcoholic beverages would be served which would create an “adult oriented atmosphere”. At this point, I feel that I must point out the sheer ridiculousness of this sentence. Let's take a closer look at the presence of alcoholic beverages on the ship.

 

For those of you who have been on a cruise, you realize that these boats are basically huge floating bars. There are multiple bars, practically on every deck. There are bars by the pool (several, in fact), bars in the casino, bars by the theater, and bars in the restaurants. One would find it next to impossible to move about the ship without passing through or by a bar. But wait, there's more. In the unlikely event that you are not within ordering distance of a bar, the ship has a small army of servers that scour the ship like thousands of ants, ready to take your order at the mere hint of impending thirst. If that wasn't enough, each day brings the "drink of the day" which is printed in the ship's daily schedule (delivered to your state room at night) and is announced by the cruise director on the public address system. The demand for these drinks must be exceptional, as they set up small booths in high traffic areas and bottlenecks so you can purchase your Sunstroke or Pina Colada (complete with souvenir glass) whilst traversing the great distances during between-meal bar migrations.

 

To my knowledge, no other bar on the ship prohibited children during the serving of alcoholic beverages. During the course of the cruise, we were in bars for trivia contests and scavenger hunts, and the bars were packed with kids of all ages. Amazingly, while children are not allowed to gamble, they are allowed in the casino. Kids are permitted to watch inebriated adults gamble their college funds away, but they can't enter the concierge lounge. What kind of debauchery could possibly go on in the Concierge Lounge between 5:00pm and 8:30pm? When I was in the lounge, I noted that the inhabitants were in the wrong age demographic to muster sufficient energy for any kind debauchery, as Merriam Webster or any other human would define it. They were discussing the shuffle board and bingo schedules, and one was actually asleep in his chair. (However, I did note that a couple of shuffle boarders were wearing socks with their sandals, which I thought was a clear violation of the "appropriate footwear" requirement.) I think we can rest assured that the motivation for the Royal Caribbean Anti-Child policy has nothing to do with the "adult oriented atmosphere", and their true motivation remains a mystery.

 

Since I was traveling with my two children, I found the anti-kid policy concerning. However, after a short discussion, my wife and I decided to go to the lounge and bring some hors d’oeuvres back to our kids. The trip took less than 5 minutes and we returned with some very nice chocolate covered strawberries.

 

The next day we received a call from a Royal Caribbean front desk staff member named Carlos. He indicated that he knew that we had removed food from the lounge and that we “would not be permitted to do so again”. Seriously, those were his exact words. We explained that the Royal Caribbean policy prohibited children and this was the only way for them to obtain food. I will never forget his reply. He said, “If your kids eat the food from the lounge, then it will not be there for the other guests.” This anti-kid policy is reminiscent of Mr. Bumble and his reply to Oliver Twist's plea for more.

 

During the remainder of the cruise we had several conversations about the rationale for this policy. Our first assumption was that the motivation was financial; if they prohibit kids in the lounge, it will cost less. We discarded this theory as the kids are going to eat somewhere on the boat and the cost differential would be minor. In the end, we could find no reason. My son decided that Royal Caribbean just didn’t like kids. Regardless of their motivation, the rules of Royal Caribbean made the concierge lounge useless to us. Since their website didn’t mention that children were not welcome and that food could not be removed, they failed to meet the Must-Be quality that they established based upon their website. I should point out that the crew on the ship must know that this is an issue. The only part of the letter from the Concierge that was bold was the comment about the kids not being welcome. If this is their policy fleet wide, they should put a similar notice on their website so that customers are informed prior to making a purchase.

 

Our experience on Disney Cruise Lines was very different. Disney’s ships have an “upscale” restaurant called Palo. Our group of travelers made plans for a night at Palo during our cruise. When we visited Disney’s website, it clearly indicated that you must be 18 years or older to enter. Remarkably, Disney goes out of their way to establish that Palo is for adults only.There are no fewer than eight references to the fact that it is Adult Exclusive or Adult Only.

 

 

 

(Article continues)

 

wow, I thought that was really interesting. You should send that to Royal.

 

There is one BIG shortfall to that comparison....THE COST FACTOR

 

The person that wrote that conveniently left that graph out.

[marci22]

There is one BIG shortfall to that comparison....THE COST FACTOR

 

The person that wrote that conveniently left that graph out.

 

I don't think cost factor has to do with setting expectations.

[Wayah]

It would not cost Royal anything extra to fix their website to make the concierge policies regarding under 18 guests absolutely clear. If they revert to the old policy and do not have it posted on the website they are essentially false advertising to sell suites. That leads to arguments in the concierge lounge during actual cruises which is far more disturbing than the online board debate.

[bajathree]

I don't think cost factor has to do with setting expectations.

 

Sure it does.....Disney easily cost 2-3X when compared to Royal.....that is like comparing a Hyundai to a BMW and not taking cost into consideration.

[spookwife]

dumb question.. are all suites not created equal?

 

reason I ask. I have a GS on Enchantment for May 2012. now according to the website all suites on this ship sleep a max of TWO. so uhhh... does that mean said suites would have a far lower than normal shot at having any underaged peeps and that the D+ families alone are the ones who will be able to take advantage?

 

but I was under the impression that the SUITE guests were griping about the policy? or are there larger suites on other ships that do have higher max capacities?

 

reason I booked a GS was , in part, due to the access to the CL and the fact that if I can get a pre dinner glass of wine I won't need to buy as many drinks in the DR or get a package.

 

while I don't think the new policy is enough to make me cancel( I will reserve judgement til I get on board) i will not hesitate to complain if my enjoyment is ruined by children.

[yogimax]

 

To my knowledge, no other bar on the ship prohibited children during the serving of alcoholic beverages.

 

The fallacy of your argument is in equating the Concierge Lounge to all the bars on the ship.

 

The Concierge Lounge is much more than a simple "bar." It is an experience that, in the past, has been reserved for those who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars with RCCL to sail multiple times as well as those who spend extra for enjoying the spacial comforts of a suite.

 

Unlike other bars, the CL was intended to provide an enclosed atmosphere away from the noise of children and in which adults could relax and make new friendships.

 

Unlike other bars, significant hors d'oeuvres were served. Chocolate covered strawberries would be available since no children would be there to pile a plate with ten and then lick off the chocolate while their parents ignored their behavior.

 

No, your argument, though lengthy, fails because it does not distinguish the Concierge Lounge experience with the basic ship bar.

[marci22]

reason I booked a GS was , in part, due to the access to the CL and the fact that if I can get a pre dinner glass of wine I won't need to buy as many drinks in the DR or get a package.

 

That's a bad reason to book a suite, imo. The wine is pretty bad/cheap. One glass before dinner is not going to offset the difference in price between a GS and a lesser category.

[marci22]

The fallacy of your argument is in equating the Concierge Lounge to all the bars on the ship.

 

The Concierge Lounge is much more than a simple "bar." It is an experience that, in the past, has been reserved for those who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars with RCCL to sail multiple times as well as those who spend extra for enjoying the spacial comforts of a suite.

 

Unlike other bars, the CL was intended to provide an enclosed atmosphere away from the noise of children and in which adults could relax and make new friendships.

 

Unlike other bars, significant hors d'oeuvres were served. Chocolate covered strawberries would be available since no children would be there to pile a plate with ten and then lick off the chocolate while their parents ignored their behavior.

 

No, your argument, though lengthy, fails because it does not distinguish the Concierge Lounge experience with the basic ship bar.

 

I think the author of the article that wayah cites is commenting on the language of the concierge's letter which states that under 18 is not allowed during cocktail hour because of the 'availability of alcoholic beverages'.

 

If you are a new cruiser and cruising with your kids, this might go against your expectations, as it did on my first cruise on Royal with kids, in an OS. I was disappointed and I did relay my disappointment to the concierge at the time. This article is about expectations, not about who should actually be permitted in the lounge.

[megr1125]

Merion Mom...Interesting observations...thanks!!

[mommabean]

The fallacy of your argument is in equating the Concierge Lounge to all the bars on the ship.

 

The Concierge Lounge is much more than a simple "bar." It is an experience that, in the past, has been reserved for those who have spent thousands and thousands of dollars with RCCL to sail multiple times as well as those who spend extra for enjoying the spacial comforts of a suite.

 

Unlike other bars, the CL was intended to provide an enclosed atmosphere away from the noise of children and in which adults could relax and make new friendships.

 

Unlike other bars, significant hors d'oeuvres were served. Chocolate covered strawberries would be available since no children would be there to pile a plate with ten and then lick off the chocolate while their parents ignored their behavior.

 

No, your argument, though lengthy, fails because it does not distinguish the Concierge Lounge experience with the basic ship bar.

 

You mean lick the chocolate off their FINGERS and then go back for more, pick one up, decide it's not the one they want and put it back down grabbing a different one. Common kid behavior. Ewwww....

 

More free gastrointestinal illness trips to the medical facility for us. We LOVE free stuff. ;)

 

Gina

[marci22]

Sure it does.....Disney easily cost 2-3X when compared to Royal.....that is like comparing a Hyundai to a BMW and not taking cost into consideration.

 

It doesn't matter what the cost is if your expectations are in line with what was suggested beforehand in the literature. It's not about cost.

 

I was very disappointed on a first cruise that my younger children could not enter the lounge during cocktail hour, because of the way the CL was presented to me beforehand. On subsequent cruises, although still not happy with the policy, I knew what to expect.

[bradpole]

...

She called over the Head Waiter the last night in the MDR and was asked if she wanted to complain about "the food or the way pax were dressed" before she even said a word!!!

...

 

 

...Dining room examples:

 

It's formal night. Many people have dressed up. Most are at least "decent".

 

Spotted entering the dining room:

 

Button down shirt, shorts, sneakers.

 

Child in BATHING SUIT.

 

Capris, t-shirt, sneakers.

 

Just a few examples.

 

Back to the Concierge Lounge.

 

Adults in bathing suits with coverups, some that cover........some not so much.

 

A LOT of shorts...

 

I've tried not to comment in this thread up until now...

You both mention shorts in the MDR and CL. Personally I have no issues with it. I don't wear them, why should I care if someone else does. I understand it is a slippery slope, but what many long time cruisers don't understand is cursing has changed, and the cruise lines are trying VERY VERY hard to attract people who would never think to take a cruise. And some of those people don't understand that on a vacation there is a dress code. They can book a week at a hotel on the beach, and dine out each night. Most family hotels don't come with dress codes, so they certainly aren't expecting a cruise to have home either. Yes, I know the website, and pre cruise docs, spell all this out but the bottom line is not everyone is as thorough as myself (and other cruisers) who research things to death and read every word mailed and emailed to them! I bet a portion of the 'offenders' just didn't know they would offend someone by dressing casually on vacation.

 

A perfect example a couple of weeks a go a superior of mine at work (a large corporation) booked a cruise. He took me to lunch to ask a bunch of questions and get some tips. He then asks, "I've read on the website about suggested dress attire. Do the cruise lines actually expect me to dress like I'm at work while on vacation?" The sad truth is there is a growing number of people cruising for the first time who just don't understand the tradition of dressing for dinner!

 

Go ahead and flame away....

but those are just my opinions. I'm on vacation, there are too many other things to do than worry about the attire of my fellow cruisers.

[megr1125]

momma...may i suggest, that if you haven't already....you share your observations in the CL with the people in Miami...

 

Merion mom..you too please!!

 

when the rep from the exec office called me she said they'd gotten "a very large number" of comments and that the 'executives' were meeting to review this change...

 

so....i would gather that comments, either for or against, would be welcomed by the powers that be down in Sunny Miami!

[marci22]

I've tried not to comment in this thread up until now...

You both mention shorts in the MDR and CL. Personally I have no issues with it. I don't wear them, why should I care if someone else does. I understand it is a slippery slope, but what many long time cruisers don't understand is cursing has changed, and the cruise lines are trying VERY VERY hard to attract people who would never think to take a cruise. And some of those people don't understand that on a vacation there is a dress code. They can book a week at a hotel on the beach, and dine out each night. Most family hotels don't come with dress codes, so they certainly aren't expecting a cruise to have home either. Yes, I know the website, and pre cruise docs, spell all this out but the bottom line is not everyone is as thorough as myself (and other cruisers) who research things to death and read every word mailed and emailed to them! I bet a portion of the 'offenders' just didn't know they would offend someone by dressing casually on vacation.

 

A perfect example a couple of weeks a go a superior of mine at work (a large corporation) booked a cruise. He took me to lunch to ask a bunch of questions and get some tips. He then asks, "I've read on the website about suggested dress attire. Do the cruise lines actually expect me to dress like I'm at work while on vacation?" The sad truth is there is a growing number of people cruising for the first time who just don't understand the tradition of dressing for dinner!

 

Go ahead and flame away....

but those are just my opinions. I'm on vacation, there are too many other things to do than worry about the attire of my fellow cruisers.

 

I agree. People mention Disney cruise lines a lot and although their is no concierge lounge there, on Disneyworld property, the deluxe rooms in the best locations are considered 'club level' and come with free snacks and drinks. Kids are allowed in these lounges and it's just how it is.

 

Royal is trying to accommodate new suite cruisers with children, without alienating guests without children. It's difficult. This may not be the best answer to the problem but at least they're trying.

 

I find a lot of the comments and arguments in these threads to be more inflammatory than productive.

[bradpole]

momma...may i suggest, that if you haven't already....you share your observations in the CL with the people in Miami...

 

Merion mom..you too please!!

 

when the rep from the exec office called me she said they'd gotten "a very large number" of comments and that the 'executives' were meeting to review this change...

 

so....i would gather that comments, either for or against, would be welcomed by the powers that be down in Sunny Miami!

 

Of course the powers that be when reviewing these comments will respond, "wow, I had no idea this would upset people." As we know most decisions in Miami are made without thinking, "how will our guests respond?"

 

Perhaps they have yet to hear of a new medium. There is this thing called email and the internet, they could email a link to a group of past guests with a survey. They could then base their decision on the results of the survey. Pretty revolutionary isn't it? Hopefully one day Miami will learn of this new and cheap way to contact their guests :)

[mommabean]

momma...may i suggest, that if you haven't already....you share your observations in the CL with the people in Miami...

 

Merion mom..you too please!!

 

when the rep from the exec office called me she said they'd gotten "a very large number" of comments and that the 'executives' were meeting to review this change...

 

so....i would gather that comments, either for or against, would be welcomed by the powers that be down in Sunny Miami!

 

No, no! I haven't seen this yet. It is just my fear. I see it all the time in the Windjammer when on cruises with a lot of children which is why I rarely eat there. And when I do eat in the WJ, I try to get there as soon as the food is put out.

 

I will be aware on my upcoming cruise while in the CL. I always have my camera with me. You can bet there will be pictures if there is anything of significance. :)

 

Gina

[crusinmama06]

The person that wrote that conveniently left that graph out.

 

The person that wrote that is a fiction writer. :rolleyes:

 

Children are not allowed in the casino. They will be removed instantly. They can walk through but they cannot sit and watch their parents gamble.

 

His children "wanted food" and could only find food in the CL. REALLY! On the ENTIRE ship between 5 and 8:30 his little cherubs could only find food in the CL? Um, yeah no. Let's try the Windjammer. Or Sorrento's. Or Cafe Promenade.

[Cruising89143]

I've tried not to comment in this thread up until now...

You both mention shorts in the MDR and CL. Personally I have no issues with it. I don't wear them, why should I care if someone else does. I understand it is a slippery slope, but what many long time cruisers don't understand is cursing has changed, and the cruise lines are trying VERY VERY hard to attract people who would never think to take a cruise. And some of those people don't understand that on a vacation there is a dress code. They can book a week at a hotel on the beach, and dine out each night. Most family hotels don't come with dress codes, so they certainly aren't expecting a cruise to have home either. Yes, I know the website, and pre cruise docs, spell all this out but the bottom line is not everyone is as thorough as myself (and other cruisers) who research things to death and read every word mailed and emailed to them! I bet a portion of the 'offenders' just didn't know they would offend someone by dressing casually on vacation.

 

A perfect example a couple of weeks a go a superior of mine at work (a large corporation) booked a cruise. He took me to lunch to ask a bunch of questions and get some tips. He then asks, "I've read on the website about suggested dress attire. Do the cruise lines actually expect me to dress like I'm at work while on vacation?" The sad truth is there is a growing number of people cruising for the first time who just don't understand the tradition of dressing for dinner!

 

Go ahead and flame away....

but those are just my opinions. I'm on vacation, there are too many other things to do than worry about the attire of my fellow cruisers.

 

No flaming from me and I agree 100% that the cruise lines are working to attract a new cruiser but why not go ahead and change the suggested dress code to allow shorts? The cruise lines are causing the issues by not sticking to their own rules.

 

I also understand that RCI is now targeting families as their main demographic. I don't like all of the changes that I see and due to this we are now looking at other options besides RCI.

[Wayah]

I agree crusinmama that Royal Caribbean is very clear in its policy of 18 and over in the casino. (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/pdf/Guest_Conduct_Policy.pdf). However the concierge children policy was no where to be found on the website and needs to be explicitly added if they decide to resume the policy. We are bringing a grandparent along on our Alaskan cruise so it truly makes no difference to me. It would just be nice to know in order to give her realistic expectations (ie.. taking turns or going as a family.)

[mommabean]

I agree crusinmama that Royal Caribbean is very clear in its policy of 18 and over in the casino. (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/pdf/Guest_Conduct_Policy.pdf). However the concierge children policy was no where to be found on the website and needs to be explicitly added if they decide to resume the policy. We are bringing a grandparent along on our Alaskan cruise so it truly makes no difference to me. It would just be nice to know in order to give her realistic expectations (ie.. taking turns or going as a family.)

 

You are correct. The rules concerning the concierge lounge should definitely be listed clearly on the web site under the suite amenities that are shown for those booking suites.

 

Sometimes RCI does have policies stated on their website for various things but they are nearly impossible to find even when conducting a search. That's par for the course concerning their website design. :rolleyes:

 

Gina

[bajathree]

I agree crusinmama that Royal Caribbean is very clear in its policy of 18 and over in the casino. (http://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/pdf/Guest_Conduct_Policy.pdf). However the concierge children policy was no where to be found on the website and needs to be explicitly added if they decide to resume the policy. We are bringing a grandparent along on our Alaskan cruise so it truly makes no difference to me. It would just be nice to know in order to give her realistic expectations (ie.. taking turns or going as a family.)

 

You are correct. The rules concerning the concierge lounge should definitely be listed clearly on the web site under the suite amenities that are shown for those booking suites.

 

Sometimes RCI does have policies stated on their website for various things but they are nearly impossible to find even when conducting a search. That's par for the course concerning their website design. :rolleyes:

 

Gina

 

I absolutely agree with both of you....Royal is poor with stating certain policies...there is no excuse for that and it needs to be addressed and corrected. All of this could have been avoided if they clearly stated on their web-site the rules of the CL. They clearly have in bold red on their invoices:

North American bookings will require a 200% deposit of standard deposit amount for deluxe suite categories. This amount is not reflected in the total deposit requirement listed above.

Defaulted in the system when booking a suite below that should have been what the rules were concerning dress code and children in the CL.

[Seatravelers]

We did get to experience children in the CL:eek:. At first, we were shocked until I received an email from a friend alerting me to the new policy. I asked Ricardo about it and he said it was true. The 1st night there were quite a few kids in the CL at night, after 7 pm and they were all rather loud and excited, which is understandable. It was not the usual quiet and relaxing venue. As the week progressed, the kids were present mainly at breakfast, less at lunch and even less at night. That being said, we never went in until around 7 and only stayed until 7:30 because all our specialty restaurant reservations were at that time. We heard it was packed at 5 pm until just after the start of the 1st seating so not sure if that included kids as well - avoided that time like the plague, lol.

What I did have a problem with was the kids going over and "messing with" the food, coffee machine, etc and walking around without shoes, trying to carry full glasses and spilling as they go, etc and bringing in their 'buddies' (quite obvious and heard the young girl explaining what the CL was, etc). (Wonder if this is why the coffee machine wouldn't work at times and they had to have it serviced several times during the week:rolleyes:) The parents should have to stay next to the kids at all times, is my thought, when they are in the lounge. The concierges and wait staff should not have to look after the kids as they roam freely in the lounge at times. Plus, where the concierges sit in the CL on Oasis, they really can't see alot that is going on and it will certainly make for an awkward situation when someone has to go to complain about a child's behavior and then the CL has to come and address it or not.

These were exceptions and not the rule but still do not feel children should be allowed during the evening hours, imho. Have family hour from 4-5 then regular hours for adults only is my suggestion. Maybe this is just an Oasis/Allure thing since so many families (especially from other countries besides the US) book suites but won't book a babysitter since it is not a suite perk:rolleyes:. We will definitely try not to travel during 'high children ratio' times on these ships in the future, for what it's worth.

[BND]

momma...may i suggest, that if you haven't already....you share your observations in the CL with the people in Miami...

 

Merion mom..you too please!!

 

when the rep from the exec office called me she said they'd gotten "a very large number" of comments and that the 'executives' were meeting to review this change...

 

so....i would gather that comments, either for or against, would be welcomed by the powers that be down in Sunny Miami!

 

We were told the same thing when they called us. I do hope they realize that not everyone in the concierge lounge cruises with children and enjoy adult only time which is pretty much impossible anywhere else onboard (except the Solarium-sort of).

 

I'd be curious to see the all the critiques that are turned in concerning the changes made. I really think the biggest complaint will be lack of seating, followed by behavior. I probably wouldn't have an issue if all parents would actually parent their children and the concierge really felt free to enforce the rules, but we all know how likely that is.:rolleyes:

[spookwife]

That's a bad reason to book a suite, imo. The wine is pretty bad/cheap. One glass before dinner is not going to offset the difference in price between a GS and a lesser category.

 

well it isn't the only reason but it was a factor in deciding between a JS and GS( that and other considerations) if the wine really is that bad, then we'll just get a package on the first night.

[Rockfordcruiser]

As stated in the previous thread. Time for RC to have 2 CL's One for Suite guest with children and one for Suite guest with out. C/A members can figure out which one they would like to go into.