Two people, 3 airline seats?????

[ducklite]

So, you're in favor of reporting it and getting several people in trouble because you assigned yourself policeman? Wow.

 

Isn't it wonderful that there are perfect people in the world to keep the rest of us in line!

 

 

Where did I say I would report it? I would only if it directly impacted me. I reported an Air France FA who spent her time canoodling with a couple drunk guys in the galley instead of servicing the airplane after she was incredibly rude to me when I requested some water after no cabin pass in over three hours. I would if I were flying F and they ran out of the wine I favored because the FA kept pouring it for friends in a lower class of service.

 

Otherwise s/he would eventually get caught and turned in by a coworker or a passenger with a legitimate gripe.

[sverigecruiser]

Sad to say, in America, a lot of people do go hungry.

But if you want to make yourself feel better by assuming people risk disease by taking food out of a dumpster just to save money, go right ahead.

 

In Sweden noone has to go hungry. People who take food out of dumpsters here do it to save money, not to survive. (I do mean Swedish citizens, poor people from other countries may be here and they might need the food they STEAL. I do feel sorry for them but it's still stealing.)

[azevedan]

Where did I say I would report it? I would only if it directly impacted me.

Otherwise s/he would eventually get caught and turned in by a coworker or a passenger with a legitimate gripe.

 

Sorry (see how that works?) - this whole thing started over the reporting of a simple glass of wine, and another poster commenting s/he would have done the same.

 

Fair point in me not knowing the wine was the remnants of a soon-to-be-discarded bottle (I chose to think the best of people). Even if not, still has zero effect on the costs in the arcane world of airline pricing. If the same seat in coach cost the same to everybody (and so reflected costs) rather than what someone was willing to pay for it, and each flight was charged for the alcohol used above average (and this flight was above average), and an extra glass, or two, or bottle, of wine might conceivably add, oh, say $0.13 to each person's ticket. Not in this universe. Heck....I'm saving the airline more than that in fuel by weighing less (and traveling with less luggage) than the average passenger. SO...if we're talking costs.....let's charge by total weight (person plus luggage). It's only fair. Why should I pay the same fuel costs as heavier people and/or those with more luggage? Americans are causing my fare to be higher because so many are overweight! :p

Edited July 2, 2015 by azevedan

[sverigecruiser]

And I'm sure you do, too, which is why I know (and you do, too), that there is (so close to being the case that it's correct to say) always a space difference with business class....whether it's more leg room, fewer seats across, or a middle seat 'blocked out'. Yep, some little RJ's flying without different classes....but they warn you of that and you know you're not flying in a higher class of service.

 

 

I agree that it almost always it's more space in business than in economy, ALMOST.

[ducklite]

Sorry (see how that works?) - this whole thing started over the reporting of a simple glass of wine, and another poster commenting s/he would have done the same.

 

Fair point in me not knowing the wine was the remnants of a soon-to-be-discarded bottle (I chose to think the best of people). Even if not, still has zero effect on the costs in the arcane world of airline pricing. If the same seat in coach cost the same to everybody (and so reflected costs) rather than what someone was willing to pay for it, and each flight was charged for the alcohol used above average (and this flight was above average), and an extra glass, or two, or bottle, of wine might conceivably add, oh, say $0.13 to each person's ticket. Not in this universe. Heck....I'm saving the airline more than that in fuel by weighing less (and traveling with less luggage) than the average passenger. SO...if we're talking costs.....let's charge by total weight (person plus luggage). It's only fair. Why should I pay the same fuel costs as heavier people and/or those with more luggage? Americans are causing my fare to be higher because so many are overweight! :p

 

 

I have said that there should be a base fare starting at 100 pounds person and luggage and adding incrementally for each additional 10 pounds.

[azevedan]

And why should I have to pay the same taxes when I have no kids and only put out my trash every 2nd or 3rd week?

 

It's because we're all in this together.... :rolleyes:

And no one gets out alive, so be kind along the way. ;)

Edited July 2, 2015 by azevedan

[CantanaLobo]

By that rationale, throwing a snowball at a car is as bad as firing a bullet.

Or that, since you can't draw a line between when night ends and day begins, it's not possible to tell the difference.

"Know it when I see it" works for the Supreme Court.

 

STILL haven't seen why people feel it necessary to stick their nose in.

Snowball throwing at a car could cause an accident, as could a bullet. The religions that care can draw a line when day ends and night begins - ask any rabbi.

 

As for why people stick their nose into something petty like the glass of wine - could be any number of reasons - power trip, jealousy, ego-pumping, a desire to make other people as unhappy as they are. Why doesn't much matter. If the FA is going to break the airline rules, he or she shouldn't be too surprised if someone tattles. There really wasn't any reason for that FA mentioned in this thread to complain that a passenger reported the FA breaking the rules.

Edited July 2, 2015 by CantanaLobo

[CantanaLobo]

...And no one gets out alive, so be kind along the way. ;)

"Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" :)

 

Where's that bar again? :)

[slidergirl]

Regarding taking back front-of-the-plane beverages to back-of-the-plane passengers: There is this little thing called "service recovery." Or, it could be as a "thank you" for doing something (changing seat, giving up your duplicate-ticketed seat, preemptively valeting a bag, having volunteered for VBD and it was noted on folio). Unless you are privy to paperwork or conversations between crew, it is totally possible that that beverage is being provided as a service recovery or a "thank you". Wanting to know the specifics of an action when you are not one of the actors because you are pissed you weren't the recipient is a First World Problem. Not saying "friend" things don't happen, but never assume that is always the reason. Just like on DL, not every missed Medallion upgrade is a "Shena" (aka, shenanigan between employees to get friends/family/co-workers up in the front-of-the-plane or the last seat on a flight)...

Edited July 2, 2015 by slidergirl

[ducklite]

Regarding taking back front-of-the-plane beverages to back-of-the-plane passengers: There is this little thing called "service recovery." Or, it could be as a "thank you" for doing something (changing seat, giving up your duplicate-ticketed seat, preemptively valeting a bag, having volunteered for VBD and it was noted on folio). Unless you are privy to paperwork or conversations between crew, it is totally possible that that beverage is being provided as a service recovery or a "thank you". Wanting to know the specifics of an action when you are not one of the actors because you are pissed you weren't the recipient is a First World Problem. Not saying "friend" things don't happen, but never assume that is always the reason. Just like on DL, not every missed Medallion upgrade is a "Shena" (aka, shenanigan between employees to get friends/family/co-workers up in the front-of-the-plane or the last seat on a flight)...

 

 

However the person who mentioned it to begin with specified that the FA brought drinks back to friends. That is not allowed. I have had drinks brought to me as a service recovery issue. Given the 125K miles I fly with them each year, I Have more than paid for it. I pass more often than not when offered.

 

My FA friend flies for a different carrier than I fly. I would not expect her to bring me anything, and in fact would decline as I wouldn't want her to get into trouble. Big difference.

 

PS--prechecking bags and volunteering to give up a seat in an oversold flight aren't valid reasons either. VDB comes with financial incentive, and doesn't need further compensation.

 

Two weeks ago someone was booked into the same seat I was. She was standby. I don't know how they managed to put her into my seat, but I was already in it with my husband in his next to me, and she had to get off. That was the gate's fault and because she was standby to begin with, there was no service recovery required. I suppose now someone will say I should have given up my seat for her. :roll eyes:

Edited July 2, 2015 by ducklite

[azevedan]

"Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die" :)

 

Just don't try getting that eat or drink from first class, or people will make sure you're not merry. ;)

[FlyerTalker]

However the person who mentioned it to begin with specified that the FA brought drinks back to friends. That is not allowed.

Given that they were in the row next to mine, I couldn't help but hear their long and longer conversations. Old pals from flying together. It was very clear from the words spoken on both sides, talking about family and mutual friends.

 

FWIW, I get my facts straight first. I KNEW that it was not a service recovery or a downgrade or the like. The pass-rider was griping that business filled up and they couldn't get a seat there as they had wanted. Heck, I tried for that upgrade and they didn't make it available to me as a revenue passenger. So no mistaken assumptions, no getting the situation mis-diagnosed. It was friendship pure and simple....and wrong.

 

Let me give you one last thought. You are a stockholder in an airline. Staff is giving away 1 glass of wine per flight at a cost of $1 per glass. You have 5400 flights per day. Multiply that times 365 days a year and you get $1,971,000 per year. That's money out of the company's pocket. Your pocket since you are an owner. Now, perhaps on a percentage basis that isn't huge....but you can still do a LOT with almost $2 million. Invest in better gate area amenities, more staff to handle flights, more bag handlers to get bags processed faster. Which benefits not just the company but its customers. Who now spend more money with the improved company, thus providing more return.

 

Remember the story of Bob Crandall at AA. He calculated that removing ONE olive from a salad would save the company $100,000 per year.

 

It adds up.

[azevedan]

I KNEW that it was not a service recovery or a downgrade or the like. The pass-rider was griping that business filled up and they couldn't get a seat there as they had wanted. Heck, I tried for that upgrade and they didn't make it available to me as a revenue passenger.

 

You know, I wondered if you were talking about another (vacationing) FA. Since they were 'pass riders', they were vacationing FA's or pilots (even former), they get to fly for free on a space-available basis (including internationally, including with their families, including on different airlines than their own), which is part of their overall benefit. So, given that they're flying for free, I doubt the company's going to sweat a lost glass of wine. I'll have to ask whether the benefit covers getting meals and drinks if they're in coach, either formally or in-.

 

Let me give you one last thought. You are a stockholder in an airline. Staff is giving away 1 glass of wine per flight at a cost of $1 per glass. You have 5400 flights per day. Multiply that times 365 days a year and you get $1,971,000 per year. That's money out of the company's pocket....It adds up.

 

Assuming NONE of it was destined for the drain! And happened on EVERY flight. I can't remember seeing it happen, but I allow it might have somewhere in the zillion or so flights I've taken.

Edited July 2, 2015 by azevedan

[azevedan]

Heck, I tried for that upgrade and they didn't make it available to me as a revenue passenger.

 

Tell me....if you *had* gotten the upgrade, would you have been just as upset about the free wine to the vacationing FA?

[FlyerTalker]

Tell me....if you *had* gotten the upgrade, would you have been just as upset about the free wine to the vacationing FA?

Two thoughts:

 

1) Yes, I would be. Wrong is wrong. I'm sorry if you live in a relativistic world where there are no clear lines of right and wrong. If you don't have that kind of moral compass. "It was only a candy bar that I stole" is not an excuse. Stealing is stealing.

 

2) I would have been in a different row and not known about it.

[azevedan]

1) Yes, I would be. Wrong is wrong. I'm sorry if you live in a relativistic world where there are no clear lines of right and wrong. If you don't have that kind of moral compass. "It was only a candy bar that I stole" is not an excuse. Stealing is stealing.

 

Uh, not so much. Even the law recognizes there are different levels and severity.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/theft-overview.html

 

I'm sorry you live in a world where the tiniest transgression (as defined by you) is untempered by mercy, understanding or the slightest sense of perspective. Perhaps your real name is Javert?

Edited July 3, 2015 by azevedan

[ducklite]

Uh, not so much. Even the law recognizes there are different levels and severity.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/theft-overview.html

 

I'm sorry you live in a world where the tiniest transgression (as defined by you) is untempered by mercy, understanding or the slightest sense of perspective. Perhaps your real name is Javert?

 

 

We aren't talking about criminal law, we are talking civil,law and the direct and purposeful violation of an employers policies. I don't know of any employer who thinks it's OK for employees to randomly give away company assets to friends. I know no airline allows it.

[notentirelynormal]

Uh, not so much. Even the law recognizes there are different levels and severity.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/theft-overview.html

 

I'm sorry you live in a world where the tiniest transgression (as defined by you) is untempered by mercy, understanding or the slightest sense of perspective. Perhaps your real name is Javert?

 

From reading all the posts, I get the feeling you must be a TA or know one and from all your zillion flights you take enjoy getting freebies. There is right and wrong and grey. Clearly you are in the grey area and feel justified accepting the rewards.

 

Let the subject die. You are not winning the argument. Quite the opposite. Your arguments have become petty. The more you rebut the argument the worse you personally look.

Edited July 3, 2015 by notentirelynormal

[azevedan]

From reading all the posts, I get the feeling you must be a TA or know one and from all your zillion flights you take enjoy getting freebies. There is right and wrong and grey. Clearly you are in the grey area and feel justified accepting the rewards.

 

Not even close! Heh. Too funny. I mentioned in post #63 the few freebies I got over the years (and why I got them). [Ooh....just realized I forgot one. I got 1000 free miles because I gave a doctor seeing to another passenger some prescription pills that I had with me.] It is correct that, like many other business people who flew a lot, I sometimes got upgrades. And enjoyed them, just like all the other people who get them do. Never expected them; never agitated that I was somehow special and deserved an upgrade even though I was way down on the list. They don't happen much any more with the way they've made it tougher to maintain status. And my company never paid for business class, or even economy comfort.

 

Let the subject die. You are not winning the argument. Quite the opposite. Your arguments have become petty. The more you rebut the argument the worse you personally look.

 

Funny; I could say the same thing. I'll stop when you all will. I already had stopped, several times. Not willing to let it lie there. The worse *I* personally look? At least, I'm not insisting someone must be *punished* even though she was likely scared straight already (see post #40: "she begged me not to write the company" - so the concern isn't to stop the behavior but to MAKE IT HURT. (And who appointed that person policeman of the world, anyway? Oh, right....a moral duty to speak up.)

And, in any event, the original complaint was that someone reported a simple glass of wine.

And, no, I'm not a thief, either. (I'm actually quite an ethical person.) And also one who knows she's not perfect, and has made plenty of mistakes over the years, and while I may think lots of things about the way people behave (and sometimes even kvetch about them in online forums), it would take a lot more than someone else getting a glass of wine they didn't "deserve" to report them. If that's lacking a moral compass, sure....go ahead and lay that label on me if it makes you feel so much better than me. :)

 

As such, if you can point out where I have become 'petty' (if it is indeed such), I'll gladly apologize.

Oh, the "Javert" dig? Yeah, okay, that was low. But, like the poster, Javert felt 'stealing was stealing', even if it was a loaf of bread to feed a child. I'm sure the poster has many fines qualities that put Javert to shame.

Edited July 3, 2015 by azevedan

[azevedan]

We aren't talking about criminal law, we are talking civil,

 

The question was whether "stealing is stealing". Post #165.

Edited July 3, 2015 by azevedan

[vjmatty]

I already had stopped, several times.

 

If you have to stop more than once, you haven't really stopped.

[CantanaLobo]

Corporations have rules employees must follow. Employees violate those own rules at their own risk. I would not use " mercy, understanding or the slightest sense of perspective" when describing corporations.

Edited July 3, 2015 by CantanaLobo

[ducklite]

The question was whether "stealing is stealing". Post #165.

 

 

The word steal is defined the same way regardless of what is taken without permission, or it's value. How civil and criminal courts determine the punishment for the act of theft varies based on the amount, but there is no second definition to the word "steal" that is based on the amount taken.

 

Stealing is stealing. Whether you take a paper cup or a case of them, it is still taking something you don't own and using it for your benefit or the benefit of another.

Edited July 3, 2015 by ducklite

[DanJ]

Are you saying there are people who prefer a middle over an aisle seat.... who would rather be up close and personal with two strangers instead of one and have less room to move one side of their body?

 

 

You may end up with a situation where a couple books window and aisle hoping to keep the middle free, but are willing to give up the aisle rather than the window to the middle seat occupant. Middle seater may not want the aisle, for the simple reason, he's content to sit in his seat the entire flight, and by sitting in the middle rather than the aisle, has made a 50% reduction in the chances he will be disturbed and have to let someone out. This person is likely going to try for a window seat, but if timing is such that only middles are left, then a middle is preferable to an aisle.

 

I can't believe this thread has been busier in the last few weeks than it was when it started and died 3 years ago lol.

Edited July 5, 2015 by DanJ

[vjmatty]

Middle seater may not want the aisle, for the simple reason, he's content to sit in his seat the entire flight, and by sitting in the middle rather than the aisle, has made a 50% reduction in the chances he will be disturbed and have to let someone out.

 

Unless the flight is less than two hours he's going to eventually need to use the bathroom so that is kind of an unrealistic expectation, unless he is hooked up to a catheter ;)

 

One reason I like the aisle is that each time someone needs to get up, I get to walk up and down the plane as well which makes my knee feel better. I am supposed to get up every hour since my surgery but that isn't always doable.