Something I learned about repositioning cruises and the PVSA

[Daghis]

I was curious how, given the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) restricts the ability for foreign-flagged ships to transport passengers from one US port to another, ships are able to reposition from one US port to another. For example, Enchantment of the Seas is sailing from Baltimore down to Port Canaveral. Grandeur of the Seas will soon be sailing from San Juan to Baltimore. How are they legal under the PVSA?

 

Well, the answer is related to the particular ports in question. According to the Wikipedia article linked above, the PVSA only restricts ships from doing closed-loop itineraries when they visit nearby ports such as Bermuda, the Bahamas, and most of the Caribbean. Interestingly, if a ship visits Aruba, Bonaire, or Curaçao, then the PVSA no longer applies, and a ship can return to a different US port. This is what's happening with Enchantment of the Seas. The current repositioning itinerary includes stops in Aruba and Curaçao, so she'll be able to arrive at Port Canaveral and disembark the passengers there.

 

Another interesting exception is San Juan. Since there are no US-flagged ships transporting passengers to/from San Juan, foreign-flagged ships may sail from San Juan and end up at different US port, such as Grandeur of the Seas arriving at Baltimore.

 

Anyway, I thought this was interesting and wanted to share it with others who might have also been curious.

[waf125]

Thank you for the info! :D

[rednancy1]

Very interesting. Thank you.

[Mark_K]

Yes, to travel from one US port to another, you have to visit a "distant" foreign port, which does not include any of North or Central America. With the exception of the ABC islands, which are considered part of South America, Caribbean islands are considered part of North or Central America.

 

The other interesting thing is that while there is an exception for Puerto Rico, there doesn't seem to be one for the US Virgin Islands.

[njhorseman]

Yes, to travel from one US port to another, you have to visit a "distant" foreign port, which does not include any of North or Central America. With the exception of the ABC islands, which are considered part of South America, Caribbean islands are considered part of North or Central America.

 

The other interesting thing is that while there is an exception for Puerto Rico, there doesn't seem to be one for the US Virgin Islands.

 

No exception is required for the US Virgin Islands because the law is not applicable to those waters.

 

Here's the official CBP explanatory document for the PVSA, and you'll note the following. The PVSA applies to Puerto Rico (but as you state there is an exception for Puerto Rico, which is due to the lack of available US flagged vessels), but it isn't applicable to begin with to the USVI:

 

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/trade/legal/informed_compliance_pubs/pvsa_icp.ctt/pvsa_icp.pdf

 

 

 

From Page 11:

Application of the PVSA

1. Where Does the PVSA Apply?

The PVSA applies to the United States, including the island territories and possessions of the United States, e.g., Puerto Rico. See 46 U.S.C. § 55101(a). However, the coastwise laws generally do not apply to the following: 1) American Samoa; 2) the Northern Mariana Islands; 3) Canton Island; or 4) the Virgin Islands. See 46 U.S.C. § 55101(b).

 

From Page 14...the exception for Puerto Rico:

 

EXCEPTIONS

Transportation of Passengers Between Puerto Rico and Other U.S. Ports—46 U.S.C. § 55104

An exception to the PVSA permits non-coastwise-qualified vessels (vessels not qualified to engage in the coastwise trade) to transport passengers on voyages between ports in Puerto Rico and other U.S. ports until qualified U.S. vessels are available.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

We're on the Brilliance 10/20 RT Boston... Boston, Massachusetts; Halifax, Nova Scotia; Saint John, New Brunswick; Bar Harbor, Maine; Portland, Maine; Boston, Massachusetts

 

followed by the repo on 10/27 from Boston to Tampa... Boston, Massachusetts; Basseterre, St. Kitts; Castries, St. Lucia; Bridgetown, Barbados; Willemstad, Curacao; Oranjestad, Aruba; Tampa, Florida

 

Several on our CC thread have said "no can do"....it's a violation of the PVSA. It seems there are a number of opinions about the legality of this itinerary. I think we're OK and have an email from Resolutions saying it's OK.....sure hope so. :)

[Daghis]

We're on the Brilliance 10/20 RT Boston... Boston, Massachusetts; Halifax, Nova Scotia; Saint John, New Brunswick; Bar Harbor, Maine; Portland, Maine; Boston, Massachusetts

So, this is a simple closed-loop itinerary. Nothing special about this one.

 

followed by the repo on 10/27 from Boston to Tampa... Boston, Massachusetts; Basseterre, St. Kitts; Castries, St. Lucia; Bridgetown, Barbados; Willemstad, Curacao; Oranjestad, Aruba; Tampa, Florida

Because this one goes to Curaçao and Aruba, the PVSA no longer applies, and ending the cruise in Tampa isn't a problem.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

So, this is a simple closed-loop itinerary. Nothing special about this one.

 

 

Because this one goes to Curaçao and Aruba, the PVSA no longer applies, and ending the cruise in Tampa isn't a problem.

 

That's what I think but somehow some think that doing it as a b2b it isn't OK. :confused:

[Beachin2]

Great. Also B2B. Work to do in the morning I guess.

 

They did link ours as a B2B though.

[Beachin2]

The BIG difference is the 1st cruise is closed loop - trx between the SAME cities?

[Daghis]

That's what I think but somehow some think that doing it as a b2b it isn't OK. :confused:

I think that a B2B can be a problem if you're doing one-way cruises that don't start and end in the US. For example, if you pair an Alaska cruise that starts in Seward, Alaska, and ends in Vancouver, British Columbia, along with the next cruise that starts in Vancouver and ends, say, in San Francisco, then you'd effectively be taking a cruise from Seward to San Francisco, and that would violate the PVSA.

[spencercoop]

We're on the Brilliance 10/20 RT Boston... Boston, Massachusetts; Halifax, Nova Scotia; Saint John, New Brunswick; Bar Harbor, Maine; Portland, Maine; Boston, Massachusetts

 

followed by the repo on 10/27 from Boston to Tampa... Boston, Massachusetts; Basseterre, St. Kitts; Castries, St. Lucia; Bridgetown, Barbados; Willemstad, Curacao; Oranjestad, Aruba; Tampa, Florida

 

Several on our CC thread have said "no can do"....it's a violation of the PVSA. It seems there are a number of opinions about the legality of this itinerary. I think we're OK and have an email from Resolutions saying it's OK.....sure hope so. :)

 

In this situation they treat the 2 cruises like one cruise. So when you leave Boston on 10/20 until you arrive in Tampa you are technically under the PVSA on one cruise. Since on that cruise you stop at Curacao and Aruba you should be fine.

[beachchick]

So, this is a simple closed-loop itinerary. Nothing special about this one.

 

 

Because this one goes to Curaçao and Aruba, the PVSA no longer applies, and ending the cruise in Tampa isn't a problem.

 

Tiny quibble. The PVSA does apply; the cruise line is complying with the PVSA requirements, not exempt from them.

 

Thank you for bringing this up because it can be confusing for many people, especially when it appears that a cruise itinerary might be breaking the PVSA regulations. The Caribbean "ABC" considered to be distant foreign ports are very helpful for cruise lines and itinerary planning.

 

beachchick

[AlanAllyn]

Any port in SouthAmerica (including the ABC islands, eg. Aruba) qualifies as a "distant" foreign port. Stopping there allows one way voyages between US ports.

[BillB48]

I think that a B2B can be a problem if you're doing one-way cruises that don't start and end in the US. For example, if you pair an Alaska cruise that starts in Seward, Alaska, and ends in Vancouver, British Columbia, along with the next cruise that starts in Vancouver and ends, say, in San Francisco, then you'd effectively be taking a cruise from Seward to San Francisco, and that would violate the PVSA.

 

That's exactly right.... you can string B2Bs together and wind up with a violation of the PVSA when there would not have been one on an individual leg. A real example is when the Rhapsody and Radiance leave from Honolulu, both trips wind up in Vancouver.... everything is still fine according to Hoyle. Now try adding another leg.... Radiance ends up in Seward and the Rhapsody terminates in Seattle. You now have run amok with the PVSA! You could take care of that problem on the Radiance by doing a B2B2B and end your cruise in Vancouver after Seward. However as for the Rhapsody, the follow on cruise would always end in a US port, Seattle, that would be a no go.

[Daghis]

Tiny quibble. The PVSA does apply; the cruise line is complying with the PVSA requirements, not exempt from them.

You're right... Thank you for that correction.

[FLACRUISER99]

That's exactly right.... you can string B2Bs together and wind up with a violation of the PVSA when there would not have been one on an individual leg. A real example is when the Rhapsody and Radiance leave from Honolulu, both trips wind up in Vancouver.... everything is still fine according to Hoyle. Now try adding another leg.... Radiance ends up in Seward and the Rhapsody terminates in Seattle. You now have run amok with the PVSA! You could take care of that problem on the Radiance by doing a B2B2B and end your cruise in Vancouver after Seward. However as for the Rhapsody, the follow on cruise would always end in a US port, Seattle, that would be a no go.

Ok myself and another person on my roll call is doing a B2B2B on Rhapsody From Sydney to Honolulu to Vancouver to Seattle. I was told this was OK when I booked as I get on in Sydney and get off in Seattle. However the other folks said RCI is telling them they have to cancel because they are on the manifest from Honolulu.:eek::eek: What do you folks think. :confused:

[setsail]

The ship must visit at least one foreign port if doing a round trip from the usa.

 

99 you are not doing a rt usa, but others are

[spencercoop]

Ok myself and another person on my roll call is doing a B2B2B on Rhapsody From Sydney to Honolulu to Vancouver to Seattle. I was told this was OK when I booked as I get on in Sydney and get off in Seattle. However the other folks said RCI is telling them they have to cancel because they are on the manifest from Honolulu.:eek::eek: What do you folks think. :confused:

 

The PVSA treats B2B cruises as one cruise. So in your situation you are taking a cruise from Sydney to Seattle. Since you are starting your cruise in a foreign port this should be a perfectly legal cruise

[CantanaLobo]

Ok myself and another person on my roll call is doing a B2B2B on Rhapsody From Sydney to Honolulu to Vancouver to Seattle. I was told this was OK when I booked as I get on in Sydney and get off in Seattle. However the other folks said RCI is telling them they have to cancel because they are on the manifest from Honolulu.:eek::eek: What do you folks think. :confused:

 

I think it's legal. You board in a foreign port, so the PVSA doesn't apply. I also think there are too many "2B"s for their computer to figure out those folks are not boarding in Honolulu. IOW, it may only look at the last cruise (Vancouver to Seattle) and immediately prior cruise (Honolulu to Vancouver) when determining PVSA impact, and isn't coded to look back any further. After all, no one would ever want to do more the a B2B?:rolleyes:

 

They might be able to escalate.

[critterchick]

That's what I think but somehow some think that doing it as a b2b it isn't OK. :confused:

 

I think you're fine, but I have ready of people being told by uninformed RCI reps that they can't book that kind of itinerary.

 

As for the Sydney to Seattle via Honolulu, I've met several passengers while on the Honolulu to Vancouver run who started in Sydney with plans to finish in Seattle. I even met a few couples who did the Honolulu to Seattle run, but I think they just fell between the cracks.

 

Here's a question: in 2015, Radiance and Rhapsody arrive in Vancouver on the same day, both originating in Honolulu. Can one change ships on the same line and remain in compliance with PVSA if they both go to US ports next, Rhapsody to Seattle and Radiance to Seward?

[BillB48]

Ok myself and another person on my roll call is doing a B2B2B on Rhapsody From Sydney to Honolulu to Vancouver to Seattle. I was told this was OK when I booked as I get on in Sydney and get off in Seattle. However the other folks said RCI is telling them they have to cancel because they are on the manifest from Honolulu.:eek::eek: What do you folks think. :confused:

 

I would say your trip would be OK since you are not beginning in HON. Everything I have read is they look at the entire voyage which is SYD to SEA, I don't see it much differently than ships sailing out of Baltimore and stopping here in Port Canaveral for the day. The bigger problem just might come from folks at RCI not completely understanding the law or perhaps overzealous interpretation by the government types. Good luck, sounds like great itin!!

[BillB48]

 

Here's a question: in 2015, Radiance and Rhapsody arrive in Vancouver on the same day, both originating in Honolulu. Can one change ships on the same line and remain in compliance with PVSA if they both go to US ports next, Rhapsody to Seattle and Radiance to Seward?

 

Changing ships would make it legal, you just can't be transported between two US ports (without all the distant foreign port baggage) on the same ship. What line the ship belongs to does not enter into the equation.

[chengkp75]

Here's a question: in 2015, Radiance and Rhapsody arrive in Vancouver on the same day, both originating in Honolulu. Can one change ships on the same line and remain in compliance with PVSA if they both go to US ports next, Rhapsody to Seattle and Radiance to Seward?

 

I believe you would have to spend at least one night in Vancouver for this to be legal under PVSA, but I know there are others more tuned into the nuances of the PVSA than I am. If you search the archives for threads on "PVSA" you will find several that discuss similar itineraries, so you may get a better idea, and posting in the "ask a cruise question" forum may get you some more responses.

[nelblu]

Does anyone know of any US flagged cruise ships. Wonder if this act is obsolete?