Is this against the rules?

[judyjudy56]

I think I may know the answer but here goes. Is it illegal to take a 4 day cruise from LA that goes to Catalina and Ensenada and then take the next 3 day cruise that only goes to Ensenada. Would love to make this a B2B.

[NavyVeteran]

I think I may know the answer but here goes. Is it illegal to take a 4 day cruise from LA that goes to Catalina and Ensenada and then take the next 3 day cruise that only goes to Ensenada. Would love to make this a B2B.

If both trips are round-trip LA, then it is legal.

 

The rule is that if you do a round-trip back to the same US port, then you have to stop in at least one foreign port. Your entire cruise is a round-trip back to the same US port, and Ensenada is a foreign port - so it is OK.

 

On the other hand, it would not be legal to do a B2B from Seattle to Vancouver and then from Vancouver to LA, since that would be a trip from one US port to a different US port. A trip from one US port to a different US port requires a distant foreign port, and Vancouver and Ensenada are not distant foreign ports.

[paul929207]

Yes, it is fine. You are going r/t LA and visiting a foriegn port, so you are good to go.

[judyjudy56]

Thanks for the responses. I thought that maybe Ensenada was not far enough away. They are both roundtrip LA cruises. After doing these 2 we will be elite. Yay!!

[Pam in CA]

Thanks for the responses. I thought that maybe Ensenada was not far enough away. They are both roundtrip LA cruises. After doing these 2 we will be elite. Yay!!

As long as your original embarkation port and final disembarkation port are the same, it's a "closed loop" cruise and you need go to a "near" foreign post. Ensenada qualifies as "near."

[Happy2cruise]

Never knew that, learned something new today.....thanks!

[Bushycomm]

Does that rule apply to all or just US citizens?

[Waynetor]

The rule (Government law not cruise line policy) applies to all passengers on ships sailing out of US ports.

 

Due to this law in many cases if you miss the port of embarkation, you will not be able to board later on many Alaskan, Hawaiin or New England cruises. (some exceptions depending on itinerary)

 

There are exceptionns in emergencies when the ship can not return to the original port as scheduled.

[Pam in CA]

Does that rule apply to all or just US citizens?

It's a US law, the Passenger Vessel Services Act, originally passed in the 1880's to protect US shipping. Often erroneously referred to as the "Jones Act" which was an amendment to the PVSA and refers to cabotage, the PVSA now protects the US airline industry. That's why British Airways, Air France, and other international airlines aren't allowed to fly routes within the US, from JFK to LAX, for instance.

 

With regard to shipping (which includes cruise ships), it applies to anyone of any nationality who embarks in one US port and disembarks in the same US port to have to go to a "near" foreign port. "Near" includes Mexico, Canada, the Caribbean and Central America. That's why Hawaiian cruises stop in Ensenada, round-trip Alaskan cruises stop in Vancouver and/or Victoria. A cruise that embarks or disembarks outside the US is unaffected by the law.

 

If you embark in one US port and disembark in another US port, such as the FLL <> LA Panama Canal cruises, you must go to a "far" foreign port. "Far" includes South America, Aruba, Fanning Island, etc. Many consider it an archaic law but it still exists and as long as the purpose remains valid (protecting US airlines and shipping), it'll remain in effect.

 

This is why even though the US government doesn't require a passport if you cruise in the Caribbean, Mexican Riviera, CA Coastal, New England, or Alaska, if for some reason the itinerary changes or you need to embark or disembark other than in the originally-planned port, cruise lines strongly recommend a passport because you won't be able to fly or return to the US without one.

 

In February, when the Carnival Triumph was immobilized, they had two options: tow the ship to Mexico or tow it to Mobile. Given the strength and direction of the currents, they were more or less equidistant. Even though Mexico was closer, the tugs would have to tow against or across the currents. Mobile was further but the tugs could tow with the current. I personally think that one of the deciding factors was that 944 Carnival passengers didn't have a passport and it would be a major problem getting them back into the US. Towing back to Mobile, Carnival could get a waiver of the PVSA.

 

Same thing was the case last year on the Carnival ship that was immobilized off the coast of Mexico. They were originally going to tow the ship to Ensenada but so many passengers didn't have a passport that it would have been a problem getting them back to the US. Instead, the ship was towed two days longer to San Diego and again, Carnival got a waiver of the PVSA.

 

I'll get off my soapbox now. :)

[madjohn]

my only advice would be to take a 7 day cruise. I think it might actually be cheaper and you get to visit more places. give it a thought.

[Jersey42]

my only advice would be to take a 7 day cruise. I think it might actually be cheaper and you get to visit more places. give it a thought.

 

I think the OP wanted two cruises to reach Elite. One seven day cruise will not do it.

[DrivesLikeMario]

I think the OP wanted two cruises to reach Elite. One seven day cruise will not do it.

 

In a suite or as a single would garner 2 credits toward Elite status.

[cr8tiv1]

I would also like to know if this applies to other voyages?

 

I am considering doing two voyages: a Round Trip Seattle (Alaska) Seattle, and then take the same ship (Star) from Seattle to Vancouver

 

Will this violate the PVSA? Will I have to get off and recheck in?

 

Renee

[Colo Cruiser]

Yes Elite.

[NavyVeteran]

I would also like to know if this applies to other voyages?

 

I am considering doing two voyages: a Round Trip Seattle (Alaska) Seattle, and then take the same ship (Star) from Seattle to Vancouver

 

Will this violate the PVSA? Will I have to get off and recheck in?

 

Renee

 

If you combine the two trips, you are taking a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, which is legal under the PVSA since it ends at a foreign port.

 

Even though it is not a problem in this case, I would like to correct the understanding behind your last question. If a B2B cruise violates the PVSA, then getting off and back on would not help. For example, you cannot take a B2B with Seattle to Vancouver followed by Vancouver to LA, since this would be a cruise between two different US ports (Seattle and LA) without a stop at a distant foreign port. Getting off the ship in Vancouver and rechecking in would not make a difference, since the PVSA would just consider that like any other intermediate port. However, you could go from Seattle to Vancouver on one ship, get off, and get on a different ship to go from Vancouver to LA - that would be two separate cruises.

[cr8tiv1]

If you combine the two trips, you are taking a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, which is legal under the PVSA since it ends at a foreign port.

 

Even though it is not a problem in this case, I would like to correct the understanding behind your last question. If a B2B cruise violates the PVSA, then getting off and back on would not help. For example, you cannot take a B2B with Seattle to Vancouver followed by Vancouver to LA, since this would be a cruise between two different US ports (Seattle and LA) without a stop at a distant foreign port. Getting off the ship in Vancouver and rechecking in would not make a difference, since the PVSA would just consider that like any other intermediate port. However, you could go from Seattle to Vancouver on one ship, get off, and get on a different ship to go from Vancouver to LA - that would be two separate cruises.

 

I am actually trying to do three different cruises: Seattle Round Trip (Star), Seattle to Vancouver (Star), overnight in Vancouver, Vancouver to LA (Golden).

 

You gave up the Star to do the Catalina trip...Just wondering if I can get an Alaskan cruise out of this.

 

By the way, Just got off the coastal. Be on the look out for a Glass Bottom Boat coupon (buy one get one free) from Groupon. It was a fun side trip in Catalina. Also took the wine tour in Ensenada. It was much better than I thought it would be.

 

Renee

[Putterdude]

I would also like to know if this applies to other voyages?

 

I am considering doing two voyages: a Round Trip Seattle (Alaska) Seattle, and then take the same ship (Star) from Seattle to Vancouver

 

Will this violate the PVSA? Will I have to get off and recheck in?

 

Renee

 

Your first cruise is a closed loop cruise which is permitted under the PVSA and the second ends in Canada which would not be violation of the PVSA.

[cr8tiv1]

Thank you to all who responded in such a timely manner. I guess I am not the only one that sits in front of the computer (Cruise Critic) all day long (LOL).

 

Renee

[ldubs]

Other than river cruises, are there any domestic passenger cruise ships? I thought there was one cruising around Hawaii, but am not sure.

[Pam in CA]

I am actually trying to do three different cruises: Seattle Round Trip (Star), Seattle to Vancouver (Star), overnight in Vancouver, Vancouver to LA (Golden).

Legal since you'd be disembarking in Vancouver. You're embarking another ship and cruise in Vancouver so that's legal, too.

 

Norwegian has a US-registered ship that because it's registered in the US, can sail without the PVSA constraints. The PVSA applies to foreign-flagged ships. NCL-A had three ships registered in the US and sailing around HI but because they were registered in the US and had to pay US wages but more importantly, had to have US crew, were relatively expensive plus passengers had to pay to fly to HI. Two of them were re-registered outside the US.

 

NCL-A tried to get the PVSA amended to require foreign-flagged ships spend over 50% of their port time in foreign ports and a few other restrictions. What they were trying to do was to kill any competition from cruises out of LA, SF and San Diego. What a surprise that the late Senator Inouye, who proposed the amendment... well, his wife is a godmother of a NCL ship. Not exactly a separation of interests. Anyway, the Governors, Senators and Representatives of Alaska, California, Florida, New York, and Florida realized that in an attempt to save two ships in HI, the proposed amendment would kill or seriously affect the cruise industry throughout the US. Senator Inouye then backtracked and said, oh, no, I just want it applied to California. The proposal died in committee. Thank God.

[judyjudy56]

Thanks for all the responses. We have done several coastals and really like the ports. We originally booked the 4 day mostly to go to Catalina which we love. When I figured out we could book the 3 day and make it into a 7 day and also be elite afterwards we decided to do it. Looking forward to doing a long cruise after these to really enjoy the elite status.

[beshears]

I just found this website, and didn't read all the responses.

 

If any of you who responded went on the Golden Princess, would you mind (yes, I know this will be your opinion, but that is OK) giving me your pros/cons of this ship?

 

Also, Catalina Island and Ensenada, Mexico, if you went that direction?

 

We are thinking of doing a short cruise, and thought the above might be a good one.

[nukesubsailor]

Other than river cruises, are there any domestic passenger cruise ships? I thought there was one cruising around Hawaii, but am not sure.

American Cruise Lines does cruises along the American coasts. Their advertizing states that they have an all-American crew on American built ships. I believe they have six small ships that carry between 50 and 150 passengers. Some are riverboats and some are ocean going types. They have a website you can check out. Much more expensive than the big foreign flagged cruise ships but that is to be expected due to the lack of economy of scale and appeasing American unions.

[paul929207]

Other than river cruises, are there any domestic passenger cruise ships? I thought there was one cruising around Hawaii, but am not sure.

There is also the NCL Pride of America. It does seven night cruises r/t honolulu. It qualifies as US built, US flagged and US staffed.

[bdjam]

If you combine the two trips, you are taking a cruise from Seattle to Vancouver, which is legal under the PVSA since it ends at a foreign port.

 

Even though it is not a problem in this case, I would like to correct the understanding behind your last question. If a B2B cruise violates the PVSA, then getting off and back on would not help. For example, you cannot take a B2B with Seattle to Vancouver followed by Vancouver to LA, since this would be a cruise between two different US ports (Seattle and LA) without a stop at a distant foreign port. Getting off the ship in Vancouver and rechecking in would not make a difference, since the PVSA would just consider that like any other intermediate port. However, you could go from Seattle to Vancouver on one ship, get off, and get on a different ship to go from Vancouver to LA - that would be two separate cruises.

Thanks for your responses - after many years of cruising and reading 100s of posts on this subject, yours are the first posts I've seen that have actually been clear and understandable. I appreciate your sharing.