Would your cruise have less problems with an American crew?

[Algebralovr]

oh there are a lot of Americans that work for other people that put in those kind of hours.

 

they are called Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines. and when you break down their salaries, they aren't making much more than what cruise ship employees do. but they get compensated in other ways ( like free medical insurance, low cost dental, free life insurance and a bunch of other benefits)

 

and sometimes, they get shot at for their troubles.....

 

Very true. And thank you for pointing that out. I have not served in the military, but have a great deal of respect for those who do. I do know that many lower enlisted make low wages, but have benefits that make up for it.

 

Like I said, when I was teaching full time, I usually worked long hours, for a mere $21,000. And yes, that was in the 21st century. New teachers where I live still earn less than $30,000 and work very long hours, I believe the hours worked compare with the cruise ships, even the service personnel, and yet the cruise ship employees make more than starting teachers near me.

 

Like I said, we do not have recruiters who are recruiting for cruise ships here in the States. They recruit in areas where the wages on the ships are considered very good. Yet, I realize that the wages on the ships are actually more than many people I know. Maybe it is because I live In a rural area.

 

Maybe I should suggest the cruise ships t some of the students I know as a way to not have huge living expenses and be able to pay off their student loans.

[sparks1093]

...don't come to Burlington because there are alot of college alumnii serving tables with huge student loans to boot.....sad really but how many Art History majors are needed in the world? :confused:

 

Oh, no doubt, I am sure that I have been served at some point by someone with an advanced degree. But someone does not need a college degree in order to provide good service.

[sparks1093]

you'd be surprised. true gourmet restaurants the servers are well schooled in many things.. they are the extension of the chef..

 

My original question was if the person that I was responding to had never received good service at a restaurant/hotel in the states. You responded by saying you've received good service only in a 5 star restaurant by a well trained staff with an education higher than a High School diploma.

 

First, I have received good service in many two star establishments from servers who may have been High School dropouts for all that I know. Second, if I were to eat at a 5 star restaurant and all that I received was good service I would expect a refund;).

[BruceMuzz]

I was formerly a recruiter for NCL America.

We compiled a list of questions for waiter applicants.

We put together the 10 basic questions we thought any good waiter should be able to answer.

They were very basic food, wine, and service questions for a good restaurant.

Examples-

 

What is the primary white wine grape of Burgundy?

How do you prepare sauce hollandaise?

Where was Cesar Salad invented?

Which is served first, cheese course or dessert?

Why is a tenderloin so tender?

What is the groove on the side of the salad fork and the end of the fish knife for?

What is the only good reason the wine steward gives you the cork before tasting the wine?

Explain Appellation Controllee.

 

We tested these questions with our waiters on NCL's international ships. As expected, most of them knew the answers.

So off we went on hiring fairs around America.

We decided that any waiter applicant would first be given this list of questions to answer.

If he was able to answer all 10 questions correctly, we would take him to the next step of the interview.

 

To our great surprise and chagrin, we couldn't find a single American waiter applicant who could answer even one of the questions correctly. At first we rejected them all. Our Corporate bosses were quite alarmed that we could not find a single knowledgeable waiter to hire.

They instructed us to dispense with the questions and just hire anyone who was "pleasant".

[BruceMuzz]

As a few people have already pointed out, the article is not about the service or hotel staff, but the officers operating the ship. It is based on an opinion of competence and safety by a US Merchant Marine officer. Only one cruise ship is registered under the US flag and is operated by US officers, the Pride of America in Hawaii.

 

A lesser known US service academy is the Merchant Marine Academy in Kings Point, NY, and there are other training programs operated by universities, like ROTC. Those officers work on US flagged ships, none of which are cruise liners.

 

Again, this isn't about the service staff or Americans taking low wage cruise ship jobs.

 

I have worked with a few American Bridge and Engine officers during my career.

They were certainly competent, although they were not very good with the metric system that the rest of the world uses.

They also had no language skills, which did not make them look very worldly or competent.

Since very few cruise lines will hire Americans, these officers had very little relevant experience, putting them at a disadvantage.

They also had to abandon their unions, since the American Maritime Unions insist that American officers get paid double or triple the wages paid to anyone else.

Sorry to say that the American officers were not double or triple as qualified or productive as their peers.

Most of them resigned and went to work on American cargo ships.

[sparks1093]

Most of them resigned and went to work on American cargo ships.

 

At least they don't have to worry about the cargo complaining about the pool deck being too crowded:).

[dorisis]

About 20 years ago the American Hawaii line operated 2 ships with all American crews. We took one of those cruises around the Islands and there were no problems. Service was good. BUT...the ships were old and not in good repair. They had been ocean liners before converting to cruising.

 

Most of the crew spoke unaccented English. That was the biggest difference .

[5326jan]

oh there are a lot of Americans that work for other people that put in those kind of hours.

 

they are called Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines. and when you break down their salaries, they aren't making much more than what cruise ship employees do. but they get compensated in other ways ( like free medical insurance, low cost dental, free life insurance and a bunch of other benefits)

 

and sometimes, they get shot at for their troubles.....

 

 

Thank you for pointing this out! :) We are too quick to bash Americans. Yes there are some that are lazy, entitled or have a "union mentality". I would say that some Americans would be outstanding in any position, but they'd have to be motivated to do the job by something other than the pay or the hours.

 

Then we have other's who put their lives on the line for not much more than love of country!

 

What I would NOT want is someone like TSA workers serving me dinner! :eek:

[5326jan]

About 20 years ago the American Hawaii line operated 2 ships with all American crews. We took one of those cruises around the Islands and there were no problems. Service was good. BUT...the ships were old and not in good repair. They had been ocean liners before converting to cruising.

 

Most of the crew spoke unaccented English. That was the biggest difference .

 

We loved that line too. The ships were pretty shabby though. :(

[RWolver672]

These officers no matter what their nationality are going to do the best job that they can because their lives are at stake just as much as the passengers.

[cj_one2000]

oh there are a lot of Americans that work for other people that put in those kind of hours.

 

they are called Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines. and when you break down their salaries, they aren't making much more than what cruise ship employees do. but they get compensated in other ways ( like free medical insurance, low cost dental, free life insurance and a bunch of other benefits)

 

and sometimes, they get shot at for their troubles.....

 

Amen! Go Air Force :D Don't forget long deployments away from their families and more trainings, etc that disrupt any chance at a "normal" schedule. And they don't get tips or WOW cards either!

[sail7seas]

I have worked with a few American Bridge and Engine officers during my career.

They were certainly competent, although they were not very good with the metric system that the rest of the world uses.

They also had no language skills, which did not make them look very worldly or competent.

Since very few cruise lines will hire Americans, these officers had very little relevant experience, putting them at a disadvantage.

They also had to abandon their unions, since the American Maritime Unions insist that American officers get paid double or triple the wages paid to anyone else.

Sorry to say that the American officers were not double or triple as qualified or productive as their peers.

Most of them resigned and went to work on American cargo ships.

 

 

There are most assuredly American Officers on board the cruise ships. You know I could name the names. ;) They may not be American born but they are American. Does one not call a holder of a U.S. passport American?

 

 

[cusecruise]

Reading the article, it seems to me it is really more about American registry for the ships rather than the crew (despite the title of the article). It is all about self regulation or lack thereof as well as cruise lines being able to bypass American regulations.

 

Personally, I don't think the nationality of the crew or officers matter at all but the registry of the ship certainly does as it helps determine the governing laws and safety regulations that must be followed.

[spookwife]

My original question was if the person that I was responding to had never received good service at a restaurant/hotel in the states. You responded by saying you've received good service only in a 5 star restaurant by a well trained staff with an education higher than a High School diploma.

 

First, I have received good service in many two star establishments from servers who may have been High School dropouts for all that I know. Second, if I were to eat at a 5 star restaurant and all that I received was good service I would expect a refund;).

 

there are different levels of 'good' service.

 

what I expected from my server at Gordon Biersch last night was of an entirely different level than what I would expect of my server at Le Bernadin...

[sail7seas]

Reading the article, it seems to me it is really more about American registry for the ships rather than the crew (despite the title of the article). It is all about self regulation or lack thereof as well as cruise lines being able to bypass American regulations.

 

Personally, I don't think the nationality of the crew or officers matter at all but the registry of the ship certainly does as it helps determine the governing laws and safety regulations that must be followed.

 

 

 

 

The list of American Registered Cruise Ship is VERY short.

 

[grand isle joe]

Oh, no doubt, I am sure that I have been served at some point by someone with an advanced degree. But someone does not need a college degree in order to provide good service.

 

Yes I agree. Sometimes the best workers are those who have "grown up" in the business. They realize what the job entails by watching and living in their parents' shadow and how small a profit margin there is in the food business.:).

[marco]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "less problems". To parallel it, would you have "less problems" if you flew Delta to Rome instead of Alitalia? Would you have "less problems" if you flew American to Paris instead of AirFrance? United, instead of British Airways to London?.......you get my drift.

[triplett]

I disagree that US Citizens will not work the 70-80 hour shifts on board the ships, however, most US Citizens who do work those hours are in business for themselves and don't want to put in those kinds of hours for other people.

 

As someone who has a full time 8 - 5 job, and has for years, I have often worked 70 - 80 hours a week. In fact, many teachers do work that many hours a week, for probably less pay than what service people on ships make! And don't start the summer/Christmas/spring break thing, because very few teachers actually take summers off.

 

At one point, I taught from 7:30 - 4, went home and by 6pm was at a second job until 10pm or later every night. Then, on the weekends, I had a small business doing lawn work for other people. All the while, I was raising two kids. Don't you think I worked 70-80 hours a week?

 

There are plenty of people who own their own business and work 80hours in a week. My grandparents did. Many physicians work long and crazy hours. The difference is that they are working for themselves, not someone else. Most of the time, family businesses require the older children to work as well, or at least they used to.

 

One difference is that there are recruiters in many other countries, people who recruit for the cruise ships. Those people understand that sometimes, in order to seek your fortune, you have to leave home for a while and undergo difficulty and work hard. Instead, we have young people who are experiencing NCLB in their schools, told that every child should go to college, and if you can't work, we have all these programs.

 

We have become an entitled society, yes, but so have many other places in the world.

 

As people run out of unemployment, have no skills, and can't find a job, some of them are going to have to learn that they will have to work hard and sometimes do things they don't want to, in order to survive.

 

Besides, many cruise ship employees earn more than minimum wage employees - and I know plenty of food service workers who work 2 - 3 jobs.

Like!

I agree.... It burns me up when I hear someone say they can't find work. Then when offered an opportunity in a starter position or a meanial position, they decline. Sometimes you have to suck it up and humble yourself, take what you can get and keep looking for the position for which you are qualified. I cleaned houses and took a temp job cleaning at a mental hospital when I couldn't find employment in my field of expertise. I am a college educated woman, and I was way over qualified to scrub toilets, but I did it until I was able to move into a better position. I met some great people and if I ever need a job I can always go back.... I did it with a smile, and it was a great experience for me!

[cusecruise]

The list of American Registered Cruise Ship is VERY short.

 

 

 

That is exactly the point! Most ships are not American registry but the article suggests there would be fewer issues if that was not the case. It has nothing to do with the crew itself.

[DDMau]

I was formerly a recruiter for NCL America.

We compiled a list of questions for waiter applicants.

We put together the 10 basic questions we thought any good waiter should be able to answer.

They were very basic food, wine, and service questions for a good restaurant.

Examples-

 

What is the primary white wine grape of Burgundy?

How do you prepare sauce hollandaise?

Where was Cesar Salad invented?

Which is served first, cheese course or dessert?

Why is a tenderloin so tender?

What is the groove on the side of the salad fork and the end of the fish knife for?

What is the only good reason the wine steward gives you the cork before tasting the wine?

Explain Appellation Controllee.

 

We tested these questions with our waiters on NCL's international ships. As expected, most of them knew the answers.

So off we went on hiring fairs around America.

We decided that any waiter applicant would first be given this list of questions to answer.

If he was able to answer all 10 questions correctly, we would take him to the next step of the interview.

 

To our great surprise and chagrin, we couldn't find a single American waiter applicant who could answer even one of the questions correctly. At first we rejected them all. Our Corporate bosses were quite alarmed that we could not find a single knowledgeable waiter to hire.

They instructed us to dispense with the questions and just hire anyone who was "pleasant".

 

This could be the reason why NCLA was so bad in 2004.

I was on the first NCLA cruise around Hawaii July 4, 2004.

[bob brown]

Reading the article, it seems to me it is really more about American registry for the ships rather than the crew (despite the title of the article). It is all about self regulation or lack thereof as well as cruise lines being able to bypass American regulations.

 

Personally, I don't think the nationality of the crew or officers matter at all but the registry of the ship certainly does as it helps determine the governing laws and safety regulations that must be followed.

I agree with your observation on the gist of the arcticle....it is interesting reading the maritime lawyer's comment about passenger's unknowingly sailing off into a legal "no man's land". How many of us read and/or understand the fine print of our sailing contract? I learned from the arcticle that the 'laws' of the UN's International Maritime Organization are really advisaries, that member's are not bound to comply with. The industry in effect is self-regulating, and the largest 'enforcement' comes not from courts, but rather the court of public opinion, as the main reason lines will comply with the laws is to avoid the results of bad press, causing a drop in bookings along with stock prices.

It gets complicated when ships are under the laws of the country of registry mainly, with some additional regulation by the country of the ports of embarkation.

[lady_cruiser]

I can not imagine an American working seven days a week 10-12 plus hours a day on the wages that cruiselines are paying.

[calliopecruiser]

A union of American marine officers thinks cruise lines should hire more American officers.......hmmmm......sounds like a self-serving comment to me and it makes me wary of listening to much more from them. "“American passengers taking cruises today, I believe, would feel a lot more comfortable and a hell of a lot safer if they knew they had American officers manning the bridge and engine rooms of these vessels.”" Ha! Fear mongering and promoting xenophobic prejudices to support their own union (and get more jobs for their members) doesn't win any points from me.

[BruceMuzz]

I can not imagine an American working seven days a week 10-12 plus hours a day on the wages that cruiselines are paying.

 

NCL America in Hawaii is American Flagged, so must follow US Labor Laws.

They are forced to pay well above minimum wage in order to stay competitive with Hawaii Hotels. They must pay overtime according to US land based laws.

They offer full medical/dental, flights to and from the ship, and paid vacations.

 

They still cannot find enough qualified people to work for them, and staff turnover remains very high.

[RockeyBullwinkle]

be careful what you wish for.. how often have you heard about an american pilot UNION or mechanic's UNION, flight attendant UNION deciding to strike and generally around the holidays? then think the last time you heard about a UNION problem on a cruise ship?