Will they ever build a smaller ship?

[printingchick]

And when I say "smaller," I mean nothing larger than say Voyager. I haven't sailed on one of the larger ships, but it seems a lot of people here seem to prefer the smaller ones, like Radiance class.

 

Do you think they'd ever build a new, smaller class ship? Something without all the gimmicks, but maybe perfect some of the areas. For instance, maybe put an area out near the pool that offered light dining; sandwiches, salads, etc.

 

I was watching the Quantum video online this morning, and it just seems like too much stuff.

 

What would be your dream, smaller size ship? Do you think this is a market that RC isn't interested in any longer? Obviously, they don't seem to have any trouble filling them, but is bigger always better?

 

I am highly concerned that Royal Caribbean seems to be so narrowly focused on the bigger is better theory of ship building. I appreciate and understand that they have a reputation for innovation, however I agree that the larger ships just have "too much stuff," to borrow your words. I think including bumper cars, a carousel, a boardwalk, etc. creates more of a land-based resort atmosphere. A few unexpected features are great. Everyone likes seeing an ice show at sea because it's so DIFFERENT. One or two never-expected-to-see-at-sea features per ship is great! Bowling, an ice rink, a park with growing grass, self-leveling pool tables, bumper cars...GREAT. Piling them on takes the focus OFF the ocean. Isn't that why we cruise?? Water slides, flow-riders....I'm fine with these things because water-features still fit the "I'm on the ocean" atmosphere.

 

To avoid flaming by the Oasis Class fans, I admit that this is just my opinion. The OP really touched a nerve with this post. I really like the FUN elements of RCL (Quest, Belly Flop Contest, 70s Party...), but see myself eventually being forced to change cruise lines to avoid having to feel like I'm at a theme park, rather than on a cruise ship.

 

Ideal size? RADIANCE CLASS. Okay, the main pool could be a little larger. That would be my one and only change. I love all the windows. I love the ocean-view elevators. I love the solarium. And I think the size is perfect. The main feature I want to enjoy on my cruise ships is THE OCEAN. I want to never forget that I'm AT SEA! The Radiance Class ships are perfect for me!

[Karma5]

I am highly concerned that Royal Caribbean seems to be so narrowly focused on the bigger is better theory of ship building. I appreciate and understand that they have a reputation for innovation, however I agree that the larger ships just have "too much stuff," to borrow your words. I think including bumper cars, a carousel, a boardwalk, etc. creates more of a land-based resort atmosphere. A few unexpected features are great. Everyone likes seeing an ice show at sea because it's so DIFFERENT. One or two never-expected-to-see-at-sea features per ship is great! Bowling, an ice rink, a park with growing grass, self-leveling pool tables, bumper cars...GREAT. Piling them on takes the focus OFF the ocean. Isn't that why we cruise?? Water slides, flow-riders....I'm fine with these things because water-features still fit the "I'm on the ocean" atmosphere.

 

To avoid flaming by the Oasis Class fans, I admit that this is just my opinion. The OP really touched a nerve with this post. I really like the FUN elements of RCL (Quest, Belly Flop Contest, 70s Party...), but see myself eventually being forced to change cruise lines to avoid having to feel like I'm at a theme park, rather than on a cruise ship.

 

Ideal size? RADIANCE CLASS. Okay, the main pool could be a little larger. That would be my one and only change. I love all the windows. I love the ocean-view elevators. I love the solarium. And I think the size is perfect. The main feature I want to enjoy on my cruise ships is THE OCEAN. I want to never forget that I'm AT SEA! The Radiance Class ships are perfect for me!

 

I

agree with the above.......................

[Ocean Boy]

I can understand why people call it a "shopping mall," but it is a good, useable space, especially in inclement weather. We've spent several nights sitting on the Promenade outside of the pub or wine bar, because the weather was too windy and rainy. I could do without all the merchandise tables that appear around the second day. But I understand, they're out to make a buck, and don't see that ever changing.

 

I have always views the Promenade as a rather fascinating part of the ship and far from a shopping mall. It is one part of the ship that is always changing. Whether it be the lighting, decorations, sales, entertainment, etc., there is always something different every time you walk through. With most ships once you have seen the ship it is pretty much the same alll week. This is not so with the Promenades. For those who don't like them that is fine. I am glad there are other ships to fill their likes. When we sail on a ship without a Promenade we defititely miss it. Plenty of times when we are up on deck I'll get up and take a walk to the Promenade just to see what is going on. For someone like me who can't sit still for very long it is a very nice destination to have to take a walk to.

[superduper123]

I am highly concerned that Royal Caribbean seems to be so narrowly focused on the bigger is better theory of ship building. I appreciate and understand that they have a reputation for innovation, however I agree that the larger ships just have "too much stuff," to borrow your words. I think including bumper cars, a carousel, a boardwalk, etc. creates more of a land-based resort atmosphere. A few unexpected features are great. Everyone likes seeing an ice show at sea because it's so DIFFERENT. One or two never-expected-to-see-at-sea features per ship is great! Bowling, an ice rink, a park with growing grass, self-leveling pool tables, bumper cars...GREAT. Piling them on takes the focus OFF the ocean. Isn't that why we cruise?? Water slides, flow-riders....I'm fine with these things because water-features still fit the "I'm on the ocean" atmosphere.

 

To avoid flaming by the Oasis Class fans, I admit that this is just my opinion. The OP really touched a nerve with this post. I really like the FUN elements of RCL (Quest, Belly Flop Contest, 70s Party...), but see myself eventually being forced to change cruise lines to avoid having to feel like I'm at a theme park, rather than on a cruise ship.

 

Ideal size? RADIANCE CLASS. Okay, the main pool could be a little larger. That would be my one and only change. I love all the windows. I love the ocean-view elevators. I love the solarium. And I think the size is perfect. The main feature I want to enjoy on my cruise ships is THE OCEAN. I want to never forget that I'm AT SEA! The Radiance Class ships are perfect for me!

You said it!:)

[Jimmy Geegitz]

Quantum doesn't appeal to me at all. I would prefer a smaller cozy ship.

[ryano]

I have always views the Promenade as a rather fascinating part of the ship and far from a shopping mall. It is one part of the ship that is always changing. Whether it be the lighting, decorations, sales, entertainment, etc., there is always something different every time you walk through. With most ships once you have seen the ship it is pretty much the same alll week. This is not so with the Promenades. For those who don't like them that is fine. I am glad there are other ships to fill their likes. When we sail on a ship without a Promenade we defititely miss it. Plenty of times when we are up on deck I'll get up and take a walk to the Promenade just to see what is going on. For someone like me who can't sit still for very long it is a very nice destination to have to take a walk to.

 

I agree! The RP was very fascinating to me. You can see it in pics all you want to but until you see it in person, pics just cant do it any justice. I also found from being in a wheelchair, that having the Royal Promenade made moving throughout the ship MUCH easier as far as getting from end to the other.

 

The one thing about Radiance class is there seem to be traffic jams around the shopping area which were much worse during sales events. I pretty much had to avoid that area totally until they were over. On Freedom, yes it got crowded at times in the RP, but I could still manage to get through with no problem.

 

I think Freedom COULD stand another bank of elevators though. It seemed easier to catch an elevator on Radiance than it was on Freedom. It wasnt terrible on Freedom though. Just a small inconvenience sometimes.

Edited July 3, 2013 by ryano

[zoncom]

I like small. RCL is designed for the masses who think bigger is better. They cannot build a new small ship and make $$. Try the older ships of Celebrity for a change. Century, Summit. Constellation. All have excellent food and itineries. Recently remodeled too.

[printingchick]

The suggestion that those of us who like the smaller ships should switch to a luxury vessel fails to recognize that we LIKE the Royal Caribbean product. I don't WANT a luxury atmosphere. I want a FUN, but with some sophistication atmosphere. I WANT to dress up in retro clothes and do the Hustle at the 70s party. I want to rip off my bra so some man can dress up like a woman at the Quest show. I'm not a sip-champagne and discuss investment strategy kind of traveler. I just prefer to cruise with a smaller group of passengers on a ship that directs the focus OUTWARD...toward the SEA...rather than INWARD...toward the amusement rides.

Edited July 3, 2013 by printingchick

[chengkp75]

Hard to say. Majesty is 21 years old. Her sisters are still in service but for Pullmantur. Even the original three RCI ships are still in service of some type and they entered service in the early 70's. Of course with the competition today to have the newest ships, you won't see them stick around with RCI that long. RCI just spent millions to revitalize the Vision class. They will be around a while longer. I would guess about five more years in the RCI fleet.

 

I think cruise ports will either have to update their facilities to handle the larger ships or they will miss out. Most know this.

 

Yes, the older ships tend to get sent to the lower return on investment lines like Pulmantur. If you Google an old RCI ship's name, Wiki will lead you to the latest incarnation, and give info on how many changes in line or name it has had. But around 25-30 years, the steel work required to meet the classification societies requirements usually sounds the death knell for ships.

 

Unfortunately for those seeking smaller ships, I don't see that happening. It is all about economy of scale. One 5000 passenger ship for $750 million is better than two 2500 passenger ships for $400 million each. And the operating cost of one larger ship is less than for the two ships. The only limiting factor for ship size is the depth of harbors (which can be dredged), and the height of any bridges (see the QM2 having to run full speed at the Verazzano bridge to take advantage of "squat" to clear). And once you have packed 5000 people on a ship, you have to offer them things to do, so now you have the "six flags" attractions.

[ryano]

The suggestion that those of us who like the smaller ships should switch to a luxury vessel fails to recognize that we LIKE the Royal Caribbean product.

 

Well the good thing is, Radiance ships should be in service at least another 10 or 15 years for you :)

[teajak]

Not at all. I don't like the Royal Promenade either. It's like a shopping mall at sea, and I don't like going to shopping malls when I'm at home!

Couldn't have said it better,totally agree.;)

[Cruising89143]

Richard Fain stated on a video interview around five to seven years ago that RCI's main focus was attracting people who loved land vacations but were afraid that they would be bored with cruising. RCI is going after the Vegas/Disney World consumer. That is evident by the type ships and amenities that are being added on new builds. Those that want a more traditional type experince are expected to try Celebrity. While some may not like it, that's the way that they're moving as a company.

[printingchick]

Well the good thing is, Radiance ships should be in service at least another 10 or 15 years for you :)

 

Thanks, Ryano!! You'll see I'll be on a Radiance Class ship in March 2014!!

 

Funny thing is, when I booked my first Radiance Class cruise, I expected to be disappointed!! I LOVED, LOVED, LOVED the Voyager Class. Although I did feel that Freedom Class was a little TOO large. But no Promenade? No ice rink? EGADS, man! What a travesty! I liked the itinerary and it was port-intensive so I took a chance. I was shocked at how MUCH I preferred the Radiance Class size. It ended up being my BEST cruise to date!!

 

cruisingator2: I suspect I'll eventually end up on Celebrity. Those ships, for the most part, tend to be smaller and more outward facing. Unfortunately, I will sincerely miss laughing it up at The Quest and shaking my groove thang at the 70s party!!

Edited July 3, 2013 by printingchick

[mjldvlks]

The suggestion that those of us who like the smaller ships should switch to a luxury vessel fails to recognize that we LIKE the Royal Caribbean product. . .

 

With that I agree. I find it mildy insulting to be told I cannot voice my opinion as to what I wish would change or not change with a dismissive go to another line that suits you better. I have tried Celebrity and didn't care for it, and am not likely to try it again unless the price/itinterary is something I cannot get anywhere else. Didn't find Zoncom's comment about "excellent food and itineries" to be true.

 

However, I have to say I like all of the RCI classes we have sailed so far [Vision to Freedom class -- we have not yet made it to Oasis or Allure]. I wouldn't hesitate to sail again on any of them. I find the comments on the ammusement parks at sea, shopping malls at sea and/or Six Flags at sea to be way over-blown.

[ryano]

I find the comments on the ammusement parks at sea, shopping malls at sea and/or Six Flags at sea to be way over-blown.

 

Agreed. And sometimes I wonder if those people that say those things have even sailed on those ships. Some of them have I bet but most of them havent. The Carnival fans like to call RCI ships those things. I would bet most of them have never been on these ships.

Edited July 3, 2013 by ryano

[superduper123]

Agreed. And sometimes I wonder if those people that say those things have even sailed on those ships. Some of them have I bet but most of them havent. The Carnival fans like to call RCI ships those things. I would bet most of them have never been on these ships.

I have not sailed anything larger than Navigator. I have no desire to try Oasis, and I did refer to it as an amusement park at sea. Maybe I am being narrow-minded, and making assumptions without enough information. I'm not sure.

 

I might start a new thread, as I am now quite curious, what's so great about the mega ships? :)

[mjldvlks]

Agreed. And sometimes I wonder if those people that say those things have even sailed on those ships. Some of them have I bet but most of them havent. The Carnival fans like to call RCI ships those things. I would bet most of them have never been on these ships.

I find it somewhat funny to see people accuse RCI of being floating amusement parks and then say they should have water slides like Carnival. It seems to me just a difference of taste in attractions. I am not likely to use a water slide or lazy river, but then again, I have never use a flow rider or climbed a rock wall or played mini golf. Probably won't ride the bumper cars on Quantum [may try the sky diving and definitely would like to see the view from the pod]. But that's just it, if I don't want to, I don't have to. All the traditional things dining room, theater, sitting in a deck char and watching the sea, are still there. And the Radii [which I thoroughly enjoyed] do not have a monopoly on sea views. I found some of my favorite sea viewing places on Independence.

[chengkp75]

I find it somewhat funny to see people accuse RCI of being floating amusement parks and then say they should have water slides like Carnival. It seems to me just a difference of taste in attractions. I am not likely to use a water slide or lazy river, but then again, I have never use a flow rider or climbed a rock wall or played mini golf. Probably won't ride the bumper cars on Quantum [may try the sky diving and definitely would like to see the view from the pod]. But that's just it, if I don't want to, I don't have to. All the traditional things dining room, theater, sitting in a deck char and watching the sea, are still there. And the Radii [which I thoroughly enjoyed] do not have a monopoly on sea views. I found some of my favorite sea viewing places on Independence.

 

I'm with you. If all the bells and whistles are there, fine. If I want to use it, I will. If I don't, I won't. I'm just saying that the larger ships are a fact of the future (except for the luxury lines, and they are getting bigger, just not huge), and when you have all those people onboard, you have to provide a wide range of entertainment.

[CatBelle]

I tried Voyager and Allure, in sice I pick Voyager.

 

I enjoyed too much both, but 5000 passengers is too much, you need to book the shows, swimmingpool more crowded, less details, etc.

 

The pefect thing is: less paassengers, same size. :P

Edited July 3, 2013 by CatBelle

[palofmine]

We are going on grandeur, only 2,000 people, i think is small compared to Oasis last year.. ugh. This has no gimicks at all, nothing to do really, that we did on Oasis. We will be sleeping, eating, and laying on the Bermuda beaches, thats it.

[Jimnbigd]

It has to be more cost-effective to have larger ships. There are fixed costs regardless of the number of passengers. The Captain. The 9-piece ship's orchestra (11 on Allure and Oasis), cruise director, the singers and dancers, head chef, etc. Perhaps these people get paid more for larger ships -- I don't know. But I bet the cost-per-passenger is less on larger ships.

 

OP...I hear you. I've been on the Spendour OTS and the Rhapsody OTS. Both were very nice ships. I prefer the larger voyager class. I have not tried the freedom or oasis class yet. I think I'd enjoy freedom class since it is basically the voyager class with some added features. The oasis class might be too big, but we are considering it for 2015.

[LadyBerard]

A smaller ship around 45000 tons that would fit through The Cut in St. George's, Bermuda. Transfer in winter months to San Juan and sail to exotic smaller ports and be adults only with top notch service. I would gladly pay a little more for such a ship.:)

 

I sure do miss docking in St. George's. Cruising to Bermuda now is just not the same.

[Travel R]

Size is a matter of perception -- We got off the Legend a few days ago and on the cruise met a couple that just got off a luxory "schooner" cruise with about 200 passengers. Legend of the Seas is the smallest ship in the RCI fleet with 2,074 pax. However, they inferred that comparably the Legend was too large and they preferred sailing on "smaller" ships. LOL!!!

 

Personally, I like the smaller RCI ships and the Explorer (Voyager class) was the largest I have ever been on, and I chose the Legend (Vision class) specifically because it was a smaller ship and after spending all the money getting to Europe, I did not want to try out a bigger ship (there was a Freedom Class ship with a similar itinerary I was considering). I knew the experience I desired from the smaller ship, and went with it (a great cruise and I was not dissapointed). [The one thing I, and my DW, did miss on the Legend vs. the Explorer was the absense of a Royal Promenade.]

 

On the other hand, I really want to try out the larger ships. I cannot write anything negative about the larger ships (Quantum and above) until I have tried them. Unfortunately, the current Oasis class itineraries are not as much of an interest to us (and will not be able to afford the Oasis itinerary in Europe by next year). However, I am looking forward to the Quantum in Bayonne - although the stated itinerary is also not extremely desireable, not having to pay for airfare (and dealing with the travel) is a huge plus (I am looking towards 2015 or 2016). All of the stuff on the ship will be great for the members my family, especially on all of those sea days. My only concern is that when I think about all of those "extras" on the Quantum, I see myself waiting on line for very long amounts of time.

 

The ROI for larger ships are much larger than the smaller ones, and more ports are being enlarged for the larger ships. Although I would hate to see them go, financially they will all eventually fade away (at least from the RCI fleet). I believe that the Quantum would have been larger, but because they wanted something big and shiny in the NYC area, the size of the Quantum had to be kept to a maximum (to get under the Verazanno bridge).

Edited July 3, 2013 by Travel R

[micmacmissy]

What would be your dream, smaller size ship? Do you think this is a market that RC isn't interested in any longer? Obviously, they don't seem to have any trouble filling them, but is bigger always better?

 

Well, since you asked, I'll share my idea of a dream, smaller size ship!

 

-1,500 passengers

-No smoking

-No main dining room, just a bunch of smaller, specialty restaurants that you rotate through...maybe italian, steakhouse, french, asian...

-Lovely, elegant casino

-No kids program. In fact, hey, no KIDS!

-Bigger pools, maybe with jets, and make one of the pools a quiet area

-No flowriders, rock walls, mini golf. Just lots of gorgeous waterfront lounge areas

-A real library...like, the size of a casino...with lots and lots of books.

 

So how crazy would THAT be? I know, i'm not describing RCCL at all...but wouldn't it be cool if they had just one "boutique" type ship in their fleet?

[poncho1973]

My first ship ever was Mariner and I didn't really think anything good/bad about the Promenade. It was fine. It was there.

 

 

THEN I sailed more ships. More lines. Larger ships. Smaller ships.

 

I can conclusively say that I enjoy the Voyager-class ships the most. I love the Promenade for events, poor weather, PEOPLE WATCHING, the bars, the relaxation, etc. We don't really shop and that's not a factor for me.

 

Will they ever build another ship smaller than a Voyager-class? I have no idea, as I am not a member of their staff.

 

Is it likely? No. They can build 100,000+ GT ships for about the same build price. They can sail 4,000+ passengers for the about the same as 2,500 passengers. They can brag about and advertise their fleet more.

 

As far as someone on the outside can see... there is no real incentive to build smaller ships. The $$$ points to which ships get built. A 70,000 GT ship isn't on the menu, so that would likely mean that the big ships are where the $$$ is at.