We're not off to a very good start here.

[funny26]

I do not understand why people think they have to get their own airfare equal to the credit Oceania gives you :confused:

 

Oceania buys bulk tickets at a low price point they are not going to be giving a credit to you for more than they are paying for the tickets :rolleyes:

 

Sometimes you can find a deal that works out less than what Oceania gives you but sometimes not

As I have said many many times

do the research & do what works best for you

 

While what you say is absolutely true, there is more to this story. While air fares have been increasing and even O is paying more than they used to yet the credits, as reported by many travelers have been lower in dollars than they used to be for the same or similar routes.

 

There may be other explanations but, the only plausable one I can come up with is that O (and Regent) are simply keeping more of the money that is included in the cruise fare than in the past thus increasing profits at the costs of the paying passengers.

 

Of course because of the cruise line buying bulk/contract fares, in most instances the amount allocated to the fares will not cover a fare purchased by the passengers however it is simply wrong for the cruise line to keep money allocated for air fares that should be credited if the passenger chooses to book themselves.

 

All I am saying here is that Oceania (and Regent) should be crediting the allocated amount to passengers not using the air from the cruise line and if the costs to the cruise line go up, the credit should also go up and if the costs go down, the credit should also go down. Appears it has been a one way street recently with the air fares increasing and the credits decreasing.

[oceanbill457]

If you book your hotel with Oceania to arrive a day early, you pay no deviation fee.

[CintiPam]

If you book your hotel with Oceania to arrive a day early, you pay no deviation fee.

 

Sure, but I can take that extra $200 per person hotel cost and pay for deviation!:D

[JimandStan]

Sure, but I can take that extra $200 per person hotel cost and pay for deviation!:D

 

Ah, But if you Book the Hotel through Oceania, then you get both the hotel stay AND the Deviation. It can be a savings over doing the Deviation plus the hotel Ala Carte. :D :D

[CintiPam]

Ah, But if you Book the Hotel through Oceania, then you get both the hotel stay AND the Deviation. It can be a savings over doing the Deviation plus the hotel Ala Carte. :D :D

 

True, but I prefer to stay at small boutique-style locally-owned hotels when traveling abroad, and I do not believe Oceania's choices (understandably) ever include those.

 

To each his own!:)

 

When in Istanbul, I want to know I am in Istanbul and not in the USA.

Edited February 5, 2014 by CintiPam

[Mura]

That's a good point, Pam. I've never used one of O's hotel packages but whenever I've checked them out, they appeared to be five star hotels. Definitely not boutique hotels let alone a B&B.

 

As you say, that is understandable!

 

One thing we especially liked about Renaissance was the "free" included hotels in excellent hotels ... gone are the days. (Then again, they put us up in the Taksim area in Istanbul but Sultanahmet would have been far more convenient for touring.)

 

Mura

[LHT28]

All I am saying here is that Oceania (and Regent) should be crediting the allocated amount to passengers not using the air from the cruise line and if the costs to the cruise line go up, the credit should also go up and if the costs go down, the credit should also go down. Appears it has been a one way street recently with the air fares increasing and the credits decreasing.

 

Unless you are in on the contract negotiations with the airlines how would you know what that amount should be? :rolleyes:

There are many fare class codes ..they may have so many tickets for the lowest fare class then maybe 30 for the next level

 

Just guessing

If you were not there you just do not know what the exact amount they paid for your specific ticket ...they probably base the credit on the average rate for that route/departure area

Airfares are very complex ;)

[oceanbill457]

Booking the hotel with Oceania also includes transfer to the ship. On an upcoming cruise to Tahiti, many guests are not allowed to embark until 5 pm, If you have to check out of your hotel by noon, you are on your own for 5 hours.

[funny26]

Unless you are in on the contract negotiations with the airlines how would you know what that amount should be? :rolleyes:

There are many fare class codes ..they may have so many tickets for the lowest fare class then maybe 30 for the next level

 

Just guessing

If you were not there you just do not know what the exact amount they paid for your specific ticket ...they probably base the credit on the average rate for that route/departure area

Airfares are very complex ;)

 

You are correct that I don't know what the fares are but, I do know that airfares are going up and credits are going down, can't answer how much of either but, as fares go up, cruise prices also go up and with that credits should also go up and if they continue down, O is increasing their profits by people taking credits.

 

Regarding credits, am relatively sure that air fares as well as credits are only based on the location of your embarkation and disembarkation and not your city of departure otherwise, cruise fares would vary based on where you are actually are departing from and they are the same for all US and Canadian cities. Thus, the credit is the same whether you live in Hawaii or New Your City or points in between. Thus people who live the closest to the cruise embarkation point can come closer to their own purchased air and those furthest do worse. Simple logic.

 

So yes, air fares and credits are based on an average departure point in North America and not by the route departure area. Could you imagine if cruise fares were determined by your home airport??

[Travelcat2]

You are correct that I don't know what the fares are but, I do know that airfares are going up and credits are going down, can't answer how much of either but, as fares go up, cruise prices also go up and with that credits should also go up and if they continue down, O is increasing their profits by people taking credits.

 

Regarding credits, am relatively sure that air fares as well as credits are only based on the location of your embarkation and disembarkation and not your city of departure otherwise, cruise fares would vary based on where you are actually are departing from and they are the same for all US and Canadian cities. Thus, the credit is the same whether you live in Hawaii or New Your City or points in between. Thus people who live the closest to the cruise embarkation point can come closer to their own purchased air and those furthest do worse. Simple logic.

 

So yes, air fares and credits are based on an average departure point in North America and not by the route departure area. Could you imagine if cruise fares were determined by your home airport??

 

 

Somehow things just got more complicated. I understand why you feel that the credits are based on the port of departure and arrival rather than individual cities of departure. What you state is logical.

 

What isn't making sense is why passengers should receive higher credits when airfares keep increasing at an alarming rate!! It sounds like you feel that airfare plays quite a major role in increasing cruise fares. Do you have any evidence that would indicate what percentage of a fare increase is attributable to increased airfares? I would think that increases in cruise fares have many components including the cost of fuel, the cost of food, labor, etc.

 

I'm having difficulty thinking that, if a negotiated airfare increases 10%, that the passenger should receive a higher credit for not taking included air. Oceania's negotiated rates are based on a certain number of passengers flying with them every year. If Oceania gives incentives to passengers to do their own air, they would have less negotiating power with the airlines. Hope this is making as much sense in writing as it is in my mind.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Travelcat2

[JimandStan]

True, but I prefer to stay at small boutique-style locally-owned hotels when traveling abroad, and I do not believe Oceania's choices (understandably) ever include those.

 

To each his own!:)

 

When in Istanbul, I want to know I am in Istanbul and not in the USA.

 

Ah but Pam, it really isn't cricket to insert your personal hotel preferences into the equation when the discussion at hand is "Is booking a hotel through Oceania a good way to avoid the Deviation fee?"

 

Pertinent to comment about Istanbul, I assure you that even those poor misguided souls staying at the Four Seasons do manage to eke out some vestige of Turkish flavor; they just do so with better views of the Bosphorus, amid higher thread counts and with proper Air Conditioning!

 

To each his own, indeed :p

[hondorner]

...I do know that airfares are going up and credits are going down, can't answer how much of either but, as fares go up, cruise prices also go up and with that credits should also go up and if they continue down, O is increasing their profits by people taking credits...

Ah, but you're forgetting that as the credits go down, fewer people opt of the air program to book their own -- there is not enough credit to make it worth their while. So, more people are taking Oceania's air -- and if airfare costs are rising, and more people are using it, then Oceania's cost rises and their profit goes down. If they were looking to save money, they would be encouraging people to opt out, not encouraging them to stay in by cutting the credits. With credits so low, it makes little sense to book your own.

 

I think you may be looking for some Oceania negative that doesn't exist.

[funny26]

Somehow things just got more complicated. I understand why you feel that the credits are based on the port of departure and arrival rather than individual cities of departure. What you state is logical.

 

What isn't making sense is why passengers should receive higher credits when airfares keep increasing at an alarming rate!! It sounds like you feel that airfare plays quite a major role in increasing cruise fares. Do you have any evidence that would indicate what percentage of a fare increase is attributable to increased airfares? I would think that increases in cruise fares have many components including the cost of fuel, the cost of food, labor, etc.

 

I'm having difficulty thinking that, if a negotiated airfare increases 10%, that the passenger should receive a higher credit for not taking included air. Oceania's negotiated rates are based on a certain number of passengers flying with them every year. If Oceania gives incentives to passengers to do their own air, they would have less negotiating power with the airlines. Hope this is making as much sense in writing as it is in my mind.

 

Great that you understand agree with the standard fares and credits not based on your port of departure rather than home airport. As far as airfares increasing and credits decreasing, the percentage of airfare to cruise fare has no bearing on anything. The cruise fare is calculated by breaking down the costs of the pieces of the included items by department such as air fares, food, drink, excursions, port fees, taxes, etc. and then applying fixed costs such as overhead and other home office allocatable costs to arrive at the cost of the cruise. Of course must adjust by type of cabin/suite to account for different levels of accommodations. Then an estimated profit is added in and you get the price to be charged. So, more expensive airfares bring higher prices to the cruise price while lower cost airfares bring lower prices.

 

Thus percentages would change by so many factors it becomes non-existent in any discussion. The cruise line factors in expected increases in air fares as they determine prices in future years thus the passenger is paying the higher prices as prices escalate. And, as credits are given, the profit on that credit is maintained by the cruise line.

 

As to your thoughts about the cruise line not reaching the negotiated number of air travelers thus trying to limit those who opt out, that has not been an issue as far as we know when the credits were higher so why would they change now. Also, the cruise line has history of how many opt out and that would be used for any guarantee to the airlines in the future so doubt the cruise lines need to limit opt outs although it is possible. Also, the number of people opting out should not be a factor in negotiating rates as history is an excellent predictor of the future.

 

Ah, but you're forgetting that as the credits go down, fewer people opt of the air program to book their own -- there is not enough credit to make it worth their while. So, more people are taking Oceania's air -- and if airfare costs are rising, and more people are using it, then Oceania's cost rises and their profit goes down. If they were looking to save money, they would be encouraging people to opt out, not encouraging them to stay in by cutting the credits. With credits so low, it makes little sense to book your own.

 

I think you may be looking for some Oceania negative that doesn't exist.

 

You may be correct Don however as I explained above, rising airfares are part of determining future fares including the airfares which would avoid losing money on increased air fares. Having worked in pricing in my past life, we always made sure to project future costs on the high side to protect our profit should cost escalation be higher than projections and sure cruise lines do that as well.

 

What the cruise lines are doing is making increased profits on higher air fares since estimated profits are based on percentages of cost and also making more than the estimated profits when people opt out by keeping more of the air fares already calculated in the cruise fare. Win win for the cruise line. Yes, encouraging people to opt out might increase profits however depending on the math the cruise line needs to weigh everything including customer loyalty and come up with the best overall method.

 

Not having any insight to the inner workings of the company does not allow any of us to say with certainty what exactly is occurring but, those on the inside have all of that data and am sure weigh all of the scenarios to come up with a plan that is best for the cruise line and not necessarily for the customer without driving away more customers. A very delicate line they must walk to maintain good profits while keeping their customer base.

 

It does appear from numerous reports and changes that PCH and their cruise lines are cutting back in certain areas as well as increasing some of the costs so this air credit issue fits right in that process. Remember the financial information from the IPO announcement and how much debt they are under and how the IPO is being used to reduce their debt. These cost cutting measures as well as price increases like deviation cost increasing 75% in the past 3 years fit into increased profits to help pay down the debt.

 

Can't say with 100% certainty that I am correct but, neither can you say that this isn't happening and that this is a negative that doesn't exist. More than likely, this is something between a non issue and a total issue.

[JimandStan]

More than likely, this is something between a non issue and a total non issue.

 

LOL, THAT was your conclusion after EIGHT EXHAUSTIVE PARAGRAPHS?

 

As George Burns once said, the secret to good writing is to have a good beginning and a good ending; then have the two as close together as is humanely possible.

[funny26]

LOL, THAT was your conclusion after EIGHT EXHAUSTIVE PARAGRAPHS?

 

As George Burns once said, the secret to good writing is to have a good beginning and a good ending; then have the two as close together as is humanely possible.

 

Isn't that better than insisting you are correct and the other are wrong. Yes, I think that I am correct but, as I said, without insight to the cruise lines books cannot be sure without doubt. And better than getting into a fight over who is correct and who is wrong. And, if you don't like to read the rationale for what someone posts, don't read it. Much better to post rationale than to state things as facts based on feelings.

 

Remember, there are 3 sides to every discussion, your, mine, and the correct!!!

[JimandStan]

Much better to post rationale than to state things as facts based on feelings.

 

Still, a little pre-post editing would not be the worst thing.... :rolleyes:

[orchestrapal]

Still, a little pre-post editing would not be the worst thing.... :rolleyes:

 

As very famous rabbi once stated " To be immortal a sermon need not be eternal."

So it also goes with CC posts.

[SnowBitte]

Ah, But if you Book the Hotel through Oceania, then you get both the hotel stay AND the Deviation. It can be a savings over doing the Deviation plus the hotel Ala Carte. :D :D

 

We booked Oceania's air and hotel in Oct 2013. Originally we had to pay air deviation by arriving a day early but I asked our TA to waive the fee since we are staying at their hotel. They did. What I like best was transportation was included. It was a Mercedes limo for us only. At the hotel we signed up for O's tour of Athens which included Acropolis and the museum. O also took care of the luggage which went straight to our cabin. The cost was about the same as if we booked the place on our own. The tour at $75/person was low for O. I like the convenience and the 5* hotel.

[NMLady]

This is "FREE AIR""?I think you need a TA who wilol fight for you.

 

It is 'free air' only if you do not ask for a deviation but accept what they give you, usually flying in the morning of embarkation and flying out the morning of disembarkation.

[JimandStan]

It is 'free air' only if you do not ask for a deviation but accept what they give you, usually flying in the morning of embarkation and flying out the morning of disembarkation.

 

You may think that flying on another date probably makes more sense, but do you really want Oceania to require that you do so?

Who is paying the Hotel Bill? You?? :confused:

I wish that people would stop to think before they post their knee jerk reactions. :rolleyes:

[YoHoHo]

You may think that flying on another date probably makes more sense, but do you really want Oceania to require that you do so?

Who is paying the Hotel Bill? You?? :confused:

I wish that people would stop to think before they post their knee jerk reactions. :rolleyes:

Yes, the pax would pay: "Occasionally, due to scheduling conflicts, an enroute overnight might be necessary. Costs associated with an overnight stay are at the guest’s expense"

 

I'm fine with that and would not expect otherwise. This clause is to cover O in a case where you make no deviation request but they fly you in the day before in anyway.The same applies to deviation or a preference to arrive the day before.

 

The 'whos gonna pay for a room at the Inn' is not a problem. I suppose there could be someone expecting a free room but I'm sure they would be set straight pretty quickly here on CC.

 

My 'wish', not a gripe or complaint because I know it is an unrealistic expectation, like many here to be able to fly in the day before, NOT requesting certain flights or such just taking what we are given, without the (now) $350 per couple fee.

 

I call it a $350 fee because most flight arrangements are made for a travelling two-some and it costs O the same to book two of them on the same flight as booking one.

 

It also costs them the same to book that same duo flights that arrive the day before as it does to book flights the day of. A simple check box of which day is preferred is all that is needed, I think it would be seen as a big plus to choose O but they would lose $350 per cabin times what, 1/2 the ship? With the reduction in air credits I expect the percentage of pax taking O's air to be much higher now.

 

That's a lot of money especially when they have been steadily increasing prices in general and significantly on ancillary sales. Like I said, just a wish. I can hear the words now ..."if wishes were horses beggars would ride" so giddyup.

[TERRIER1]

Yes, the pax would pay: "Occasionally, due to scheduling conflicts, an enroute overnight might be necessary. Costs associated with an overnight stay are at the guest’s expense"

 

I'm fine with that and would not expect otherwise. This clause is to cover O in a case where you make no deviation request but they fly you in the day before in anyway.The same applies to deviation or a preference to arrive the day before.

 

The 'whos gonna pay for a room at the Inn' is not a problem. I suppose there could be someone expecting a free room but I'm sure they would be set straight pretty quickly here on CC.

 

My 'wish', not a gripe or complaint because I know it is an unrealistic expectation, like many here to be able to fly in the day before, NOT requesting certain flights or such just taking what we are given, without the (now) $350 per couple fee.

 

I call it a $350 fee because most flight arrangements are made for a travelling two-some and it costs O the same to book two of them on the same flight as booking one.

 

It also costs them the same to book that same duo flights that arrive the day before as it does to book flights the day of. A simple check box of which day is preferred is all that is needed, I think it would be seen as a big plus to choose O but they would lose $350 per cabin times what, 1/2 the ship? With the reduction in air credits I expect the percentage of pax taking O's air to be much higher now.

 

That's a lot of money especially when they have been steadily increasing prices in general and significantly on ancillary sales. Like I said, just a wish. I can hear the words now ..."if wishes were horses beggars would ride" so giddyup.

 

I agree totally. No one would expect O to pick up the hotel. Just let people come in the day before for peace of mind.

 

Curiosity question: which cruise line charges the highest deviation fee? We have never cruised with another line so I was just wondering.

[JimandStan]

With due Respect, even those who are primarily paying the $350 fee because they want to fly in a day earlier are also enjoying the ability to select their flights and make their own Air schedule.

 

Are you saying that you would be willing to give that up in order to fly in a day early without the Deviation fee?

 

That CERTAINLY would not work for me :mad:

[TERRIER1]

With due Respect, even those who are primarily paying the $350 fee because they want to fly in a day earlier are also enjoying the ability to select their flights and make their own Air schedule.

 

Are you saying that you would be willing to give that up in order to fly in a day early without the Deviation fee?

 

That CERTAINLY would not work for me :mad:

 

Works for me. At least give the option.

Edited February 10, 2014 by TERRIER1

[YoHoHo]

With due Respect, even those who are primarily paying the $350 fee because they want to fly in a day earlier are also enjoying the ability to select their flights and make their own Air schedule.

 

Are you saying that you would be willing to give that up in order to fly in a day early without the Deviation fee?

 

That CERTAINLY would not work for me :mad:

True they do get that benefit. But if they simply took the day before they might find they are on the very same routing and time as if they did not buy the deviation only difference is the day before. That has happened to us. One trip we purchased deviation to arrive a couple of days before and another time we did not because I could not leave work earlier. We got the same flights both times (and both times good)

 

Yes, I might. I think almost everyone on CC agrees that flying the day-of is foolhardy even if circumstances sometimes necessitate it. So to me after that has been decided I'd consider secondary issues such as the flight times / routing /carrier, how many days I want to have pre or post cruise, etc. Really THAT is first question. If I want more days than a deviation or buy my own flights is the only choice. Otherwise for just to arrive the day before I am not that hard to please.

 

We have only once been offered on deviation request lousy flights with too close transfer times to different airlines yet (yikes if we miss that transfer) plus more then one stop/transfer and that was for continental USA flight! From here TI Istanbul is a long way but still always just one transfer.

 

Clearly I am not interested in class upgrades or managing 'reward' points as that would be different scenario.

 

So yes, based on my experience I'd consider taking what O gives me. All those who do not buy a deviation do that now w/o the day before safety net.

 

1250 pax with 1000 different needs and expectations

Edited February 10, 2014 by YoHoHo