Chip & Pin Cards

[lakelorain]

Our Royal Caribbean Visa has a chip as does our USAA debit card. By the way USAA is not only for military. There are some select government agencies that are eligible. We are non-military.

[$hip$hape]

I think we've been through this discussion before.

 

I have a "Norwegian" Bank of America card with a chip and magnetic strip.

(if it did not have a magnetic strip it could not be used in the United States)

You may call it a chip and signature, however it also has a PIN number.

I called B of A and they assured me, "This is a chip and PIN card" .

I do not use it for kiosks train tickets, etc. Other than that, I've had no issues using it in Europe.

However, with MY card, ALL transactions made with the PIN are considered a cash advance, and are charged as such, so I do not use the PIN number.

Did I help confuse everyone?:)

As Rick Steves says:

"In Europe, I use my debit card to withdraw money from ATMs, and pay for most of my purchases with cash.

I use my credit card only sparingly: to hold hotel reservations and to pay pricey bills such as car rentals and plane tickets. "

Edited December 8, 2013 by $hip$hape

[cruisemom42]

I think we've been through this discussion before.

 

I have a "Norwegian" Bank of America card with a chip and magnetic strip.

(if it did not have a magnetic strip it could not be used in the United States)

You may call it a chip and signature, however it also has a PIN number.

I called B of A and they assured me, "This is a chip and PIN card" .

I do not use it for kiosks train tickets, etc. Other than that, I've had no issues using it in Europe.

However, with MY card, ALL transactions made with the PIN are considered a cash advance, and are charged as such, so I do not use the PIN number.

Did I help confuse everyone?:)

 

Many regular credit cards (whether or not they have a chip) can provide you with a pin to use IF you want to have the option of using your card with withdraw cash from an ATM. As you rightly say, this is considered a cash advance and it is undesirable. Two of my regular credit cards have this feature, but I have never used it. I would consider it only in case of emergency.

 

HOWEVER, this is not the same kind of pin as the "chip and pin" credit cards, which require you to input a pin directly into the merchant's machine to verify the card. This is used as a credit card to make purchases (e.g., dinner at a restaurant, clothing, souvenirs, your hotel stay) and it is not treated as a cash advance.

[$hip$hape]

Many regular credit cards (whether or not they have a chip) can provide you with a pin to use IF you want to have the option of using your card with withdraw cash from an ATM. As you rightly say, this is considered a cash advance and it is undesirable. Two of my regular credit cards have this feature, but I have never used it. I would consider it only in case of emergency.

 

HOWEVER, this is not the same kind of pin as the "chip and pin" credit cards, which require you to input a pin directly into the merchant's machine to verify the card. This is used as a credit card to make purchases (e.g., dinner at a restaurant, clothing, souvenirs, your hotel stay) and it is not treated as a cash advance.

Thank You for making it clear!

(I have a hard time with explanations.)

[AZcruiser714]

Isn't USAA only for Military?

 

Active, retired and for awhile now any other veterans(honorably discharged probably) and their dependents. We got a USAA MasterCard a few months ago with the plan to use it in Europe on a 2014 TA and Baltics cruise. The card comes without the chip and PIN. After you have it you must then request it to be changed to a chip and PIN. They wanted to know when I was going to Europe and said to request the change 90 days ahead of the trip. I also have a BOA Visa Travel card with a chip, no PIN. It has a PIN for cash advances and I hear that sometimes that will work for purchases and sometimes not. I know that Chase is now sending out new cards with chips but not pins, unless you get one of their more elite cards.

 

On another note I wonder if this situation has happened to anyone else. My neighbor has one of the Chase chip cards with no PIN. She was at a small Bistro and supposedly the chip was so strong it somehow drew all the charges for the whole day onto their card. I have not heard before of something like this happening. I think the clerk made a clerical error somehow but I don't know for sure.

[jocap]

Some smaller places in Europe may not know that a card can be swiped down the side of the machine. There's a small shop near us which is used to doing this, because there are lots of Americans living in the village, but on an evening/weekends, the staff is often students who will never have seen a card without chip and pin....the advice from that shop is to ask for the manager, who will possibly know how to deal with it.

[navybankerteacher]

Finally got my chip and pin card from USAA - the fact that you first have to request a regular card, and then when that is issued request that it be converted to a chip and pin card shows how far behind the times US card issuers are - to have such a cumbersome process indicates that they are fairly low on the learning curve.

 

Of course, if you are willing to pay the $95 or so annual fee most main line card providers charge, I imagine the process if easier - it is annoying that they use increasingly necessary technology as a means of improving their bottom line.

[garlinn]

I saw my first Chip & PIn machine at a US store 2 weeks ago.

[Hlitner]

A Chip/PIN card is valuable to those of us that spend a lot of time in Europe and do our own thing. There are times when only a Chip/PIN card will do such as when trying to use an automatic gas pump, using some parking garage/lot machines, or even buying train tickets out of ticket vending machines.

 

In the US, we can personally recommend the fee-free Chip/PIN card called "Global Trek" which is issued by Andrews Federal Credit Union. Not only is this card free, but it also imposed zero foreign exchange fees (most credit cards have fees ranging from 2.5% - 3.5%). The only negative is that Andrews FCU does not make it very easy to get the card, but with a little advance planning (and a decent credit rating) it can all be done online. The Andrews FCU card is really a combination card as it will work in Magnetic Strip Readers, Chip Readers, etc. It does default to Chip/Signature (where signature is an option) but also functions as a true Chip/PIN where necessary.

 

Hank

[Underwatr]

Andrews recently announced that you can pay the credit card bill electronically from a non-Andrews account, so that's an additional (small) step forward. I'm hooked on my CapitalOne travel rewards so my Andrews cards is mostly used as a fallback

[S1drfl]

Bank of America offers a no fee chip and pin Travel Rewards card. It also has a stripe so it works in the US. Here's where I found it, and other suggestions, after a Google search: http://thepointsguy.com/2013/05/us-credit-cards-with-smart-chips/

Am just back from 2 weeks in London and 9 weeks in Paris where it worked everywhere, even the automated pass recharging kiosks for the Paris subway. And the vast majority of places were perfectly happy to take my husband's stripe card.

Edited December 17, 2013 by S1drfl

[newport dave]

British Chip & Pin cards still have the magnetic stripe so we can use them in old antiquated swipe machines in the US. All vendors in the UK should still be able to take cards with just a magnetic strip. They should have a slot either on the till or the card reader.

[jeph]

I've been reading this thread with a mixture of interest and continued confusion. My bank recently sent me a new MasterCard-- not because the old one was about to expire, but as a precaution, because there had supposedly been some hacking-related compromise of info recently, as makes the news all too frequently these days. Anyhow, the new one not only has a different number, it's the first card I've ever had w a European-style chip embedded in the front. (The usual magnetic strip on the back remains, of course.)

 

I'm not sure what its capabilities-- or limitations-- would be regarding European travel; one of the things I've most wished I could do over there is take advantage of the common public bike-share programs like those of Paris and Lyon (and yes, FINALLY New York as well, although the ones over here don't require the chip technology).

 

Another question I have about these is about their security. I've heard that some can be used without being physically touched-- just waving them past a sensor at a shop which is equipped to do that, which accesses the needed info via radio waves-- but that this can pose a threat of having that info stolen by a device carried by a thief, a kind of new electronic pickpocketing, all while the card never leaves the "safety" of your pocket. I've likewise heard that there are metal-mesh card covers available which prevent such remote thefts by blocking the signal. Anybody have any info / experience relevant to these questions?

[navybankerteacher]

I've been reading this thread with a mixture of interest and continued confusion. My bank recently sent me a new MasterCard-- not because the old one was about to expire, but as a precaution, because there had supposedly been some hacking-related compromise of info recently, as makes the news all too frequently these days. Anyhow, the new one not only has a different number, it's the first card I've ever had w a European-style chip embedded in the front. (The usual magnetic strip on the back remains, of course.)

 

I'm not sure what its capabilities-- or limitations-- would be regarding European travel; one of the things I've most wished I could do over there is take advantage of the common public bike-share programs like those of Paris and Lyon (and yes, FINALLY New York as well, although the ones over here don't require the chip technology).

 

 

Another question I have about these is about their security. I've heard that some can be used without being physically touched-- just waving them past a sensor at a shop which is equipped to do that, which accesses the needed info via radio waves-- but that this can pose a threat of having that info stolen by a device carried by a thief, a kind of new electronic pickpocketing, all while the card never leaves the "safety" of your pocket. I've likewise heard that there are metal-mesh card covers available which prevent such remote thefts by blocking the signal. Anybody have any info / experience relevant to these questions?

 

The PIN gives you the element of security - without the PIN being entered no charge can go through.

[Underwatr]

Another question I have about these is about their security. I've heard that some can be used without being physically touched-- just waving them past a sensor at a shop which is equipped to do that, which accesses the needed info via radio waves-- but that this can pose a threat of having that info stolen by a device carried by a thief, a kind of new electronic pickpocketing, all while the card never leaves the "safety" of your pocket. I've likewise heard that there are metal-mesh card covers available which prevent such remote thefts by blocking the signal. Anybody have any info / experience relevant to these questions?

The European cards don't work via radio waves - that's a US standard (the card issuers spent $ developing that rather than developing compatibility with EMV Chip&PIN).

 

Theoretically the encrypted RF communications for the contactless cards is difficult to crack but computers get more powerful all the time. An RF-blocking wallet can provide peace of mind but my opinion is that it's not really something to worry about (full disclosure - I don't own any contactless credit cards and I'm not interested in any)

Edited December 18, 2013 by Underwatr

[newport dave]

I've been reading this thread with a mixture of interest and continued confusion. My bank recently sent me a new MasterCard-- not because the old one was about to expire, but as a precaution, because there had supposedly been some hacking-related compromise of info recently, as makes the news all too frequently these days. Anyhow, the new one not only has a different number, it's the first card I've ever had w a European-style chip embedded in the front. (The usual magnetic strip on the back remains, of course.)

 

I'm not sure what its capabilities-- or limitations-- would be regarding European travel; one of the things I've most wished I could do over there is take advantage of the common public bike-share programs like those of Paris and Lyon (and yes, FINALLY New York as well, although the ones over here don't require the chip technology).

 

Another question I have about these is about their security. I've heard that some can be used without being physically touched-- just waving them past a sensor at a shop which is equipped to do that, which accesses the needed info via radio waves-- but that this can pose a threat of having that info stolen by a device carried by a thief, a kind of new electronic pickpocketing, all while the card never leaves the "safety" of your pocket. I've likewise heard that there are metal-mesh card covers available which prevent such remote thefts by blocking the signal. Anybody have any info / experience relevant to these questions?

 

You literally skim them over the reader, so they're only mm's away from it. These type of transactions in the UK are currently limited to £20 max. Yes they can be read by illegal devices, but they've got to be very close and you're more likely to have your old 'swipe' cards illegally swiped by a shop or restaurant than get your card read illegally. Yes you can get shielded wallets for your cards.

[puppycanducruise]

You literally skim them over the reader, so they're only mm's away from it. These type of transactions in the UK are currently limited to £20 max. Yes they can be read by illegal devices, but they've got to be very close and you're more likely to have your old 'swipe' cards illegally swiped by a shop or restaurant than get your card read illegally. Yes you can get shielded wallets for your cards.

 

This type of card is not uncommon around here. The transaction limit is low and the card has to be quite close to the reader. Great at the self serve gas station, or at the fast food drive thru (especially Timmies!).

[jeph]

So before my next trip to Europe, do I contact my bank to see about a pin to go with this new card? I'm assuming it would be different from the one that I've used for my debit card going back many years...

[Gunner22aa]

Been watching this forum for a bit with interest because here in Canada chip and pin cards have been around long enough for most of us to consider them the norm as opposed to flashy and new. Debit or credit I don't know of any financial institutions here that don't use them exclusivly. Many stores have signs up refusing to take cards that are not chip enabled now to prevent fraud. The thing I find the most facinating is that a nation that has been such a technoligical leader in so many areas has been so slow to embrace this one.

 

As an aside for those that wondered about the pin on credit cards. Here you get a pin via separate snail mail from the one your card arrived in. If you wish to change it you go to the bank and do it yourself at an automatic teller in about a minute. Both my credit card and my debit card have the same pin.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Gunner22aa

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Chase has one with a chip..

[Hlitner]

Been watching this forum for a bit with interest because here in Canada chip and pin cards have been around long enough for most of us to consider them the norm as opposed to flashy and new. Debit or credit I don't know of any financial institutions here that don't use them exclusivly. Many stores have signs up refusing to take cards that are not chip enabled now to prevent fraud. The thing I find the most facinating is that a nation that has been such a technoligical leader in so many areas has been so slow to embrace this one.

 

As an aside for those that wondered about the pin on credit cards. Here you get a pin via separate snail mail from the one your card arrived in. If you wish to change it you go to the bank and do it yourself at an automatic teller in about a minute. Both my credit card and my debit card have the same pin.

 

Could not agree with you more! The irony is that the technology is partially owned by American credit cards companies who do not utilize it in the USA. Companies like AMEX and CapitalOne issue Chip/PIN cards in Canada but refuse to do it in the USA. It comes down to money. We are a very large country (the entire population of Canada is surpassed by just a single state) and the cost to convert all the card readers in the USA is very expensive. This is a case where the credit card companies just do not want to spend the big bucks. It will eventually happen here, but you can probably count us being the last country on earth to change over :)

 

Hank

[jsmeeker]

US Banks/Issuers feel that the the signature and the guaranteed protections against fraudulent charges are good enough. Sure, a PIN would mean a thief couldn't buy anything, but if he steals my normal card and buys stuff, I just report the theft and the credit card company/bank just nulls out those charges and I don't pay them.

 

 

I used my chip and sign Chase Marriott Rewards card in London all last week. No issues. With the chip in it, they insert it just like they would any chip card. Except the machine prints a receipt and you sign. It worked that way every time. Except one time where they handed me the pad to enter the PIN. I told them "no PIN. Sign". They re-did the transaction and it printed. So, for attended stations, it's no problem. Especially in areas where they are used to American tourists.

 

 

Still, I want me a real true Chip+PIN card. And a GOOD one. Something with 0% foreign transaction fees, something that isn't from special organization that I am not/cannot be a member of (USAA, some Federal credit union, etc), AND some sort of good affinity relationship. So far, I haven't been able to find that. Maybe some day. Maybe.

[dread_pirate]

You literally skim them over the reader, so they're only mm's away from it. These type of transactions in the UK are currently limited to £20 max. Yes they can be read by illegal devices, but they've got to be very close and you're more likely to have your old 'swipe' cards illegally swiped by a shop or restaurant than get your card read illegally. Yes you can get shielded wallets for your cards.

This is called RFID (radio frequency identification) technology. If you want a shield, look for products labelled as RFID-blocking.

[CPT Trips]

Could not agree with you more! The irony is that the technology is partially owned by American credit cards companies who do not utilize it in the USA. Companies like AMEX and CapitalOne issue Chip/PIN cards in Canada but refuse to do it in the USA. It comes down to money. We are a very large country (the entire population of Canada is surpassed by just a single state) and the cost to convert all the card readers in the USA is very expensive. This is a case where the credit card companies just do not want to spend the big bucks. It will eventually happen here, but you can probably count us being the last country on earth to change over :)

 

Hank

 

Anyone else remember the change from the imprint charge slip machines and the "bad card" books? There must be advantages for the merchants and issuers to motivate them to change to chip and pin.

[Underwatr]

There must be advantages for the merchants and issuers to motivate them to change to chip and pin.

I think the difference lies in who is left holding the bag if the transaction turns out the be fraudulent.