Liberty...searching now possible man overboard

[A2Mich]

That's a bit of an urban myth. Things along the side of the ship tend to be pushed aside. As well as the exhalation issue, a fall from that height, if not done properly can result in a snapped neck.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. Broken neck isn't surprising though. Still sad either way, but seems like the majority of these SAR are more a recovery than a rescue.

[A2Mich]

Ugh. Thank you for THAT visual! :eek:

 

 

Sadly, there is a bit of reality involved here. Bad things happen to people sometimes. Sadly, many times are preventable 100%.

[Cruzin-K]

Sadly, there is a bit of reality involved here. Bad things happen to people sometimes. Sadly, many times are preventable 100%.

Very true. I know one thing for sure - if I was going to kill myself, jumping off a cruise ship would certainly not be my first choice of method. Too gruesome! Even though it night be quick, there's no guarantee of that [emoji33]

[Funbobby68]

Sadly I think that a MOB is mostly like a choice by the individual, I just can't see how it could happen without intent or VERY poor judgement, kinda like getting hit by a train while walking down the tracks .... Not like trains sneek up one people

Just my 2bits , no disrespect intended

[syracr]

This is indeed a very sad story. What would make someone decide to jump like that?

 

I am curious thought - in reading this thread, there were numerous mentions of the video camera and the "exact position" where he jumped.

Last I heard these ships still did not have MOB detection systems installed. How did the crew catch it so fast and know the "exact potion"?

 

Was it just lucky on the part of the crewman looking at that particular monitor at exactly the right time, or has RCI been installing the MOB detection systems?

[LMaxwell]

This is indeed a very sad story. What would make someone decide to jump like that?

 

I am curious thought - in reading this thread, there were numerous mentions of the video camera and the "exact position" where he jumped.

Last I heard these ships still did not have MOB detection systems installed. How did the crew catch it so fast and know the "exact potion"?

 

Was it just lucky on the part of the crewman looking at that particular monitor at exactly the right time, or has RCI been installing the MOB detection systems?

Nothing I read said they caught it right away. Maybe they did? Don't know but nothing I read supports that. The timestamp on the video though tied into the GPS system can pinpoint the position at the time of the MOB.

[love2cruise56]

It's sad that the man was troubled and decided to end his life. I feel for the family that lost a loved one.:(

[Yes We Can]

This will be the 3rd case in just one week!

 

Really?????:confused::confused::confused:

[luvscruising2007]

Really?????:confused::confused::confused:

Yes, Carnival had 2 in the past 2 weeks. One on the Glory, a young man not found. And another, I forget the ship, an older man and he was found but not alive. There were many posts on this on the Carnival boards.

So, sad.

Edited March 24, 2015 by luvscruising2007

[twovacation]

As a college diver in practice I once totally lost it in the middle of a from 10 meters and landed flat on my back. Aside from major welts on my back I began to cough and spit up blood almost immediately (as well as a total exhalation of air upon impact). At only approximately 30 feet it ruptured capillaries inside my lungs and at the emergency room they informed me that if they didn't stop the internal bleeding my lungs could fill with blood essentially drowning me. The doctor described the impact comparison to that of a car crash victim at about 20-30 miles per hour.

 

I went on to do some cliff diving later in life from heights of approximately 50 feet, still not half the height of deck 12, and a feet or head first entry would put me typically 15-20 feet under water and if you didn't control the entry you'd spin and flip underwater out of control and the pressure on limbs would often cause a sprain. And that's when we KNEW what we were doing in well lit ocean conditions.

 

My conclusion is that IF a MOB or jumper has enough aerial presence to land feet first, they likely are out of control immediately upon entry and sprain or break limbs as well as disorient themselves 20 feet under water with ears popping or rupturing and making it difficult to swim back to the surface (I sometimes has to blow bubbles to even know which was was up if I made this mistake, it's quite painful and disorienting to be just a TAD out of control upon entry from 50 feet). IF, more likely, they did not stay vertical in air, they likely hit the water at such a speed that the water would feel almost like cement upon impact and you can imagine the consequences. You'd need to REALLY control both the aerial AND the entry to avoid serious consequences.

 

Hence, Aquahound's point that MOB from deck 12 are rarely successful...and rendering most of the speculation about what might go on with ship wake, propeller, screws, etc pretty much a very secondary thought...very sad and many condolences to the family and friends.

[internetwhiz]

And with that post I'm leaving this thread. I'll just pray for the family.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[A2Mich]

Very true. I know one thing for sure - if I was going to kill myself, jumping off a cruise ship would certainly not be my first choice of method. Too gruesome! Even though it night be quick, there's no guarantee of that [emoji33]

 

 

Quite honestly, I feel bad for these people who wish to end their own lives. It's sad that they couldn't or wouldn't get the help in life they needed. However, if they wish to end their own lives, do it where it will affect the least number of people. In this case, assuming it was a suicide, this person involved several thousand people in their quest. He very well could have endangered the lives of search and rescue crew at the worst, not to mention the expense of a search and rescue mission, and, though it is ultimately trivial, inconvenienced thousands of passengers. Just extremely selfish all the way around. You want to do it? Do it in your own home. If nothing else, there's no need to involve thousands of other people in the process. And to the family of the lost one, I'm not trying to be heartless in any way, as I feel for your loss, but simply trying to be realistic here.

[Cuizer2]

Not like trains sneek up one people

 

Actually it can. Some people walk around with their headsets on, or their ear buds in both ears with the music turned up. They don't think of the consequences of not being able to hear what is around them.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Cuizer2

[A2Mich]

Actually it can. Some people walk around with their headsets on, or their ear buds in both ears with the music turned up. They don't think of the consequences of not being able to hear what is around them.

 

 

Yeah, but the train didn't "sneak up on them." The consequence is a direct result of stupidity. Not an accident. A train doesn't have a stealth mode.

[Cuizer2]

Yeah, but the train didn't "sneak up on them." The consequence is a direct result of stupidity. Not an accident. A train doesn't have a stealth mode.

 

If you don't know it is there, then it snuck up on you. The fact that the train was not in sneak mode makes no difference.

 

I scare people at work all the time because I wear soft soled shoes at work. They cannot hear me coming. Even though I am making no effort to be sneaky, from their point of view I snuck up on them.

[A2Mich]

If you don't know it is there, then it snuck up on you. The fact that the train was not in sneak mode makes no difference.

 

 

 

I scare people at work all the time because I wear soft soled shoes at work. They cannot hear me coming. Even though I am making no effort to be sneaky, from their point of view I snuck up on them.

 

 

Got ya.

[Big_G]

It's sad that they couldn't or wouldn't get the help in life they needed. However, if they wish to end their own lives, do it where it will affect the least number of people.

 

Sadly in my experience, with exception of a few terminally ill patients, they were incapable of thinking logically or seeing the consequences of their actions.

[Cuizer2]

Here is an example of where a person while avoiding one train didn't realize the danger posed by a second train until it was too late ...

 

Sgt. Darrin Forbes, of the Niagara Regional Police collision reconstruction unit, said it’s believed the man was walking south across the tracks and was waiting for a westbound train to pass when he was hit by the eastbound train.

 

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2012/04/19/reports-of-pedestrian-struck-by-train

 

 

I had a person walk into me with her shopping cart. She was looking right at me. Naturally I expected her to stop before she hit me. I was in line and not moving. She said she was sorry, so I assume it was not intentional. I have no idea where her mind was, but to the best I could tell, she was looking at me. I guess you could say I snuck up on her, even though I was not moving.

 

 

Here is an example of what I am talking about ...

 

“We have not had a chance yet to review the video that is on board the trains, however headphones were found,” said Sacramento police Lt. Norm Leong with Regional Transit police services.

 

http://fox40.com/2014/12/09/deadly-light-rail-collision-highlights-danger-of-pedestrian-crossings/

 

 

Here is a video of someone who almost got hit because he didn't think about the possibility of a train on the other set of tracks ...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiCqpS1kG0A

[Cruzin-K]

Sadly in my experience, with exception of a few terminally ill patients, they were incapable of thinking logically or seeing the consequences of their actions.

 

This is very true. If people who commit suicide could see the consequences of their action before they do it, I think a great many would change their minds. Trouble is, they can't see anything because depression is clouding their thinking. I never ever refer to someone who kills him/herself as selfish. They probably thought they were doing their friends/family/themselves/the world a favor. Suicide isn't a logical act at all.

 

I attended the funeral of a co-worker who killed himself. I've never seen anyone display as much grief as his mother. It was absolutely heartbreaking to see her - makes me tear up just remembering that awful day. :(

[A2Mich]

This is very true. If people who commit suicide could see the consequences of their action before they do it, I think a great many would change their minds. Trouble is, they can't see anything because depression is clouding their thinking. I never ever refer to someone who kills him/herself as selfish. They probably thought they were doing their friends/family/themselves/the world a favor. Suicide isn't a logical act at all.

 

 

 

I attended the funeral of a co-worker who killed himself. I've never seen anyone display as much grief as his mother. It was absolutely heartbreaking to see her - makes me tear up just remembering that awful day. :(

 

 

Ok. Maybe I worded it wrong. Maybe they themselves were not selfish, however their final action was. It's a shame that anyone feels they have to resort to such measures, whether it's to prove a point, end their own suffering, or if they think they are solving someone else's problem. Obviously, as you said, their depression was clouding any rational thought processes they may have made otherwise. I think the worst part for the surviving family is not just the loss itself, but the feeling of guilt they may have for not being able to stop it, or not seeing the signs, etc. however, even if the family did see the signs or try and help, the determined and terminally depressed person will likely do what they're going to do regardless.

[mollyeilis]

twovacations, I actually appreciate the info. Better than wondering, or thinking about sharks, or something slow happening...

 

If you don't know it is there, then it snuck up on you. The fact that the train was not in sneak mode makes no difference.

 

If you're walking on the train tracks, you should know a train might be there. If you don't realize that, nothing anyone can tell you can help you.

 

And anyone who lives in a train-filled area should know that unless you KNOW there's only one set of tracks, a train going the other way might show up. DH was stuck on a commuter train, yards from the station, for over 2 hours with them REFUSING to let the passengers off, because some driver decided that the safety arms didn't "know" what they were talking about after the southbound train went by. He came out from his lane of traffic and was hit by the northbound train that the crossing arms "knew" about, which is why they were still down. He thought he knew better than everyone else...

 

This is very true. If people who commit suicide could see the consequences of their action before they do it, I think a great many would change their minds. Trouble is, they can't see anything because depression is clouding their thinking. I never ever refer to someone who kills him/herself as selfish. They probably thought they were doing their friends/family/themselves/the world a favor. Suicide isn't a logical act at all.

 

My husband, before I knew him, had a full on bonafide attempt. (no drugs that might not work in time, no calls for help so people can get to him, nothing that could signify it wasn't truly meant) His gun misfired. In that *instant* he saw how horribly selfish he had been. It was a total 180 in his viewpoint. My husband, who is one of a very rare group of people with absolutely bonafide suicide attempts who *survived*, calls people who commit suicide "selfish".

 

I find it impossible to argue with someone who has that incredibly unique viewpoint.

 

To him, it didn't matter that he wasn't seeing it clearly; the fact of the matter, he realized in that instant, was that he was ONLY seeing it from his point of view, and that's the very definition of being selfish.

 

 

I am tremendously sad for the family, and I have great empathy for what he was going through BEFORE making that decision, but it's all gone from my heart after he made that decision.

[Aquahound]

About 4 posts up there's a link to a news story.

 

I understand, but the point I was making was different news sources reported different ages.

 

43 year old Canadian is the correct report, by the way.

[PH8]

I understand, but the point I was making was different news sources reported different ages.

 

43 year old Canadian is the correct report, by the way.

 

thanks Paul..

[geocruiser]

From looking at Vessel Finder,

http://www.vesselfinder.com/

I see that CG CHARLES SEXTON is still in the area searching for the man. I am still praying that they find him alive. I am wondering where the water current might take him? Could it be to a beach in one of the Keys or to Cuba? Is that possible?

This is so sad. Think of the family, friends and all who knew him how theirs lives will be changed for ever. Even PAX on the ship who never met him must feel terrible about this. Besides the Captain, staff and crew think how they feel searching for hours and not finding him. The Canadian war ships and our Coast Guard also searching for days and also not finding him. Thank God we have people like them who do their job to help this man and his family. Plus keep us safe. Nice to know that they are there for us.

[chengkp75]

From looking at Vessel Finder,

http://www.vesselfinder.com/

I see that CG CHARLES SEXTON is still in the area searching for the man. I am still praying that they find him alive. I am wondering where the water current might take him? Could it be to a beach in one of the Keys or to Cuba? Is that possible?

This is so sad. Think of the family, friends and all who knew him how theirs lives will be changed for ever. Even PAX on the ship who never met him must feel terrible about this. Besides the Captain, staff and crew think how they feel searching for hours and not finding him. The Canadian war ships and our Coast Guard also searching for days and also not finding him. Thank God we have people like them who do their job to help this man and his family. Plus keep us safe. Nice to know that they are there for us.

 

Based on the fact the ship was on the way back to Florida, and the tracker screen shot of the search area, it would appear that he went in smack in the middle of the Gulf Stream, so he would be pushed north at a pretty good clip. Think of the Gulf Stream as a 4-6 knot river in the ocean.

 

There is a possibility, albeit slim, that he made it to shore in the Keys, but the USCG helicopters would have already swept for that.

 

Given the time frame he has been in the water, I don't feel that he will be found alive.

 

Given the current surface water temperature in the Gulf Stream in the area of search as 75-80*F (maximum, and could be down to 65*F), the time to unconsciousness is 2-12 hours, with a survival time of 3 hours to indefinite, but with a drop in temperature to just 60-70*F, unconsciousness time drops to 2-7 hours, and survival time to 2-4 hours. You'll note that the survival time is less than the unconscious time, meaning that even if rescued before losing consciousness, they will be too far gone to recover. These are the grim facts of hypothermia, which most people think only applies to cold water areas. This is also dependent on the clothing the person in the water is wearing.

 

But as Aquahound and I have said, survivability drops considerably with height, and as the diver graphically stated, landing is also crucial, and he was not diving from a moving platform, the 15-20 knots of forward momentum will almost always guarantee that you won't enter the water feet first in the approved position.

 

Barring a miracle, everyone on the CG cutter knows this is a recovery operation, not a rescue at this point.

 

Sorry for being blunt.