Dress code and offending people

[milamber]

We have done quite a few T/A and have NEVER seen any one in Shorts at Dinner, at Lunch yes (Myself included at lunch) We have seen the Head Waiters turn men away with no jacket, and in our eyes that is what should be done. All F.A.Q. are in the back of Cunard Brochure regarding dress. The only time they turn a blind eye is on the first and last night of a cruise, as for shorts in the Theatre never on a Normal time show, maybe at the odd occasion went the late show is changed to a 7.00 start.;)

 

I agree that is what should be done, but can only report things as we saw them on both crossings. We actually sat by someone in shorts, t-shirt and trainers in the MDR on a non-formal night. We did mention it in passing to the maitre d' and he said they are more lenient than they used to be, especially with guests who might not react well to be being told.

 

We did see someone given a jacket once on a formal night at the door to the MDR, but he simply hung it on the back of his chair. There were many men without jackets on non formal nights. Also several men in baseball caps on non-formal nights - one in a Stetson on formal nights.

 

On no occasion did we see anyone at the door of the theatre at night, let alone checking the dress code and there were guests in there on many occasions in shorts, sandals, t-shirts. They were vastly outnumbered by the people who actually dressed properly, but obviously had quite thick skins.

 

I also think that smart trousers and a nice collared shirt ought to be allowed on non-formal nights. Got to look better than some of the awful things that pass off as jackets simply to adhere to the dress code, but you know what the code is when you book and if people don't like that they are free to travel on other lines.

Edited August 25, 2015 by milamber

[3rdGenCunarder]

Frankly we didn't see any evidence of the dress code being enforced in any venue at any time on our recent crossings. We saw people in shorts and t-shirts in the Brittania Restaurant and in the theatre, many men without jackets on non formal nights, plenty of men without ties on formal nights.

 

Personally we feel that if there is a dress code it should be adhered to, if only for the sake of other guests who have made an effort, but, based on our recent experiences, you won't have a problem if you decide not to.

 

I haven't seen that kind of lack of enforcement in my experiences on QM2. ON our recent crossing, I looked around the theatre on a formal night and everyone I could see (I was in the balcony with a good view of most of the theatre) was dressed up. A sea of tuxes and gowns. Long may it stay that way!

 

 

 

I find this case sad, if the male is not prepared to wear a jacket each evening , and 3 evenings with a tie for the sake of his wife. I can not understand why a lot of American males would sooner turn up in jeans and T Shirt for their meals, but most of the American males do like to look smart along with their ladies who always look good. At least it looks like they have made an effort. You can eat in the Restaurant or Kings Court in shorts if you want at breakfast or lunch or in the Red Lion for lunch or go for afternoon tea. You could cross the Atlantic on other ships, but I am sure you would feel the movement of the ship in bad weather. Crossing the Atlantic with Cunard I would say it is an experience, loads of Brits and Americans do it each year. If you do book a crossing I really hope you enjoy it.:D

 

I agree that it usually seems to be the man more than the woman who balks at dressing for dinner. In this case OP is a woman. Both she and her husband don't want to dress up. I get the feeling they have a genuine distaste for the whole idea. If so, I think Cunard will not be a comfortable trip for them.

Edited August 25, 2015 by 3rdGenCunarder

[3rdGenCunarder]

As "price" of items may become an issue for all formal dining venues.

 

Shall we now consider the enforced exclusion for those whose jewellery is not real, or not having a very high price point. ;)

 

Now this would be interesting! :D

 

Perhaps we should all start saving sales receipts to show at the door of the MDR to see if we're worthy of being admitted.

 

We once had a very haughty woman at our table in Princess Grill on QE2. I don't know how the conversation turned to Ebay, but she pronounced quite definitively that EVERYTHING on Ebay is rubbish. She already thought me a trashy American, simply because I didn't come from Scotland, so I didn't have the nerve to tell her my vintage evening gown from my favorite designer had come from Ebay. :eek:

 

And my bling was fake. :eek: :eek:

Edited August 25, 2015 by 3rdGenCunarder

[david,Mississauga]

The way some men carry on about wearing a tie you would think they deserve the Victoria Cross:). It is only for three nights in a week - not a big deal. No man needs to feel that wearing a dinner jacket (tuxedo) is compulsory. Except on ships that had Tourist Class I have always worn my DJ, but a man does not need to. It is clear that a suit is acceptable and I have seen several gents in a blazer. From my observations on the last eight Cunard crossings the proportion of men in DJs has ranged from 50% to 95%.

 

I am glad Cunard has kept up the formal tradition even if it is watered down. On a Holland America cruise this spring we noticed that formal meant jacket or tie and many men wore neither and even baseball caps were seen on a formal night. HAL has since re-classified "formal nights" as "gala nights" and the minimum standard is a shirt and trousers, although a jacket and tie are considered "appropriate."

Edited August 25, 2015 by david,Mississauga
punctuation

[alc13]

"Looking smart" is subjective. The time, money and effort it would take to dress up is simply something in which I have no interest. I am not being critical of those that get a kick out of such things, it is just not me.

 

I'm going to chime in here. If you can't compromise your very strong feelings about dressing up to accommodate a written dress code, then I believe you should look for other transportation. Other passengers might not be offended, but most choose Cunard because of the formal atmosphere at night. And they deserve respect for their choice.

 

PS Love the area around Gualala. And needless to say, I would not wear a cocktail dress to dinner there!

[navybankerteacher]

"Looking smart" is subjective. The time, money and effort it would take to dress up is simply something in which I have no interest. I am not being critical of those that get a kick out of such things, it is just not me.

 

 

When there is defined standard, "looking smart" is not subjective. Either you comply with the standard or you do not.

[luckymal]

Earlier this month I was on a two-week cruise with a youngish male friend who has not worn a tie or formal shirt since he stopped working at a bank over 15 years ago. We survived! He did not enjoy the restrictions but he survived them.

 

On our first (informal) night he wore a jacket to the MDR and saw passengers in shorts and casual shirts. The next (informal) night he tried wearing a smart, expensive, shirt and trousers and was turned back at the door of the MDR while a woman in cheap hot pants was allowed in. C'est la vie. From then on he wore that same jacket every informal night, whether it matched or not. I might add that the head waiters at the door inspected him each night from the top of his spiky hair down to his shoes. It limited his range of clothes. I would have loved him to wear one of his Armani suits - but the jacket is sleeveless and he decided the staff might decide it's a waistcoat rather than a jacket and turn him away again.

 

The four formal nights were fun. On two of them he wore a smart navy suit. He is used to wearing it without a shirt, just a scarf. For the occasion I found a formal white shirt in a charity shop. I cut it down, removing sleeves and sides (making it an extended 'dickey'), and he wore that with a bow tie. It looked lovely but he was still way too hot because of the fabric round his neck, and almost passed out on the dance floor. On the other two nights he wore a black Armani suit with a mandarin collar and a silk scarf. No shirt and no tie - but they would not have shown up anyway if he'd worn them.

 

I love the dress code and I love dressing up, but this experience made me question things a lot. You can pay a couple of thousand pounds for an outfit and not be accepted - but you can be allowed into the MDR in a £20 outfit. It's all about the letter of the code and not the spirit of it. I accept that's the only way rules can be enforced but it was interesting seeing the other side of it.

 

I spoke to a waiter in the nearby bar while waiting for David to get his jacket that night. She said that the waiters have now been given permission to turn people away. She also said that she would not expect men to wear a jacket on the dance floor in the Queens Room. That was interesting in light of another thread on here a month ago.

 

I find these comments unbelievable, you did omit to say which ship you cruised on. I do hope it was not Cunard.:confused:

[maggiemou]

We have done quite a few T/A and have NEVER seen any one in Shorts at Dinner, at Lunch yes (Myself included at lunch) We have seen the Head Waiters turn men away with no jacket, and in our eyes that is what should be done. All F.A.Q. are in the back of Cunard Brochure regarding dress. The only time they turn a blind eye is on the first and last night of a cruise, as for shorts in the Theatre never on a Normal time show, maybe at the odd occasion went the late show is changed to a 7.00 start.;)

 

I would agree with all your comments. I have been on QM2 on a world cruise and I have seen the head waiter refuse entry into the main dining room if a man was not wearing a jacket. One guy refused, and the waiter went into the back room and brought out a jacket and made the guy wear it. They used to do this with ties also.

I have also seen the bar staff refuse to serve drinks to someone on formal night if they were not in formal wear. They are asked to leave the Commodore Club for instance. We also witnessed a guy on QE world cruise not dressed in formal wear ( casual top and trousers) he was at the bar (Midships) and the staff refused to serve him. He tried to argue his point but he was shot down by a few men, including my husband, who told him he was been disrespectful to the people who were correctly dressed and had made the effort. The guy slunk away tail between his legs. Long may Cunard continue to enforce a descent dress code. I think it is a wonderful sight to see all men dressed in a tuxedo and ladies in their finery. It adds such a wonderful ambiance to the ship and is so elegant and special. Well worth making a bit of an effort for. ;)

[fantasy51]

I find these comments unbelievable, you did omit to say which ship you cruised on. I do hope it was not Cunard.:confused:

 

It was Queen Victoria.

 

What is so unbelievable? This was his first cruise on Cunard. He adhered to the dress code, even though it does not suit his own personal style or body temperature. He had hoped to wear different clothes but he soon saw what interpretation the Cunard staff put on the rules and he adjusted.

 

I have been on many Cunard cruises and I have accepted the dress code without question. This experience caused me to think about a few issues. I would love simple rules like 'Look fabulous. Dress up to show that you care about this fantastic experience of cruising on Cunard.' However, I know this would be too open to interpretation and too subjective. How could a waiter say 'You don't look fabulous. Try again.' For this reason we have to have prescriptive rules like tie and jacket. It just seems a pity that once such rules are set, there is no need to really try hard to look great! It also seems unfair to me that the men have such tight rules but women can get away with anything. While waiting for David to get his jacket, I saw two women in outfits that I think most of us would consider to be more beach wear than evening wear, but they were accepted because the rules for women are so open.

 

I honestly don't see how we can get people to look special without such tight rules, but I AM allowed to question them while adhering to them, and I can point out the inequities between women and men under these rules.

[fantasy51]

Shall we now consider the enforced exclusion for those whose jewellery is not real, or not having a very high price point. ;)

 

I like buying vintage jewellery on etsy.

 

On one ship I saw a vintage brooch for about $170. You can find the same thing on etsy for $20. I became a fan of that site right from that moment. It has provided three of my cruise necklaces.

 

While I have a fantasy of wearing diamonds and emeralds and sapphires on a cruise ship, I suspect the insurance costs would be prohibitive! :D (Yes, this is just a fantasy. I would spend money on another cruise before spending it on jewellery.)

Edited August 25, 2015 by fantasy51

[MeredithFairfax]

We have done quite a few T/A and have NEVER seen any one in Shorts at Dinner, at Lunch yes (Myself included at lunch) We have seen the Head Waiters turn men away with no jacket, and in our eyes that is what should be done. All F.A.Q. are in the back of Cunard Brochure regarding dress. The only time they turn a blind eye is on the first and last night of a cruise, as for shorts in the Theatre never on a Normal time show, maybe at the odd occasion went the late show is changed to a 7.00 start.;)

 

We saw people in shorts etc in the cinema on a couple of our formal nights. it made me think about whether the cinema should be one of the 'allowed' places to go casual.

[fantasy51]

That is something I have wondered about too, Meredith. Once you are in the dark, no one sees your clothes except those next to you.

 

Actually, I had a nasty experience in the theatre on my last cruise. The friend I was travelling with (a gay male, and dressed correctly according to the dress code) sat down next to a woman and she and her male partner suddenly moved up one seat - away from him.

 

Evidently to some passengers there are some things worse than breaking the dress code.

Edited August 25, 2015 by fantasy51

[BigMac1953]

What is it about rules and regulations, no matter how well they are publicised, that some people seem determined to see just how far they can flout them, or what boundaries they can push?

 

It's not confined to dress codes, but endemic wherever you look.

 

There is a presumption, that these rules/laws apply to everyone else, but not me. The dress code is for the wimps, I'll wear what I want. I can park my car wherever I want. I can talk during concerts. The towel rule doesn't apply to me, etc.etc..

 

The bottom line is that there are rules and if you want to participate, then you follow the rules.

 

If you would rather try to push the boundaries, then don't bother, just push off somewhere else.

 

Interestingly, you never hear of those who actually adhere to the dress codes trying to bring the standards higher and pushing for even higher dress standards. It seems to be only those who believe in the LCD who are determined to do their utmost to upset tradition.

 

Well, the vast majority of us are happy with the traditions and respect them. Those who don't like them have a choice.

 

That is not to say that there is a monopoly on standards, there's not, just different ones, and if they don't suit. then please just go away and find something more suitable. The tail will never wag the dog.

 

Tonight's rant over.

[GUT2407]

What is it about rules and regulations, no matter how well they are publicised, that some people seem determined to see just how far they can flout them, or what boundaries they can push?

 

It's not confined to dress codes, but endemic wherever you look.

 

There is a presumption, that these rules/laws apply to everyone else, but not me. The dress code is for the wimps, I'll wear what I want. I can park my car wherever I want. I can talk during concerts. The towel rule doesn't apply to me, etc.etc..

 

The bottom line is that there are rules and if you want to participate, then you follow the rules.

 

If you would rather try to push the boundaries, then don't bother, just push off somewhere else.

 

Interestingly, you never hear of those who actually adhere to the dress codes trying to bring the standards higher and pushing for even higher dress standards. It seems to be only those who believe in the LCD who are determined to do their utmost to upset tradition.

 

Well, the vast majority of us are happy with the traditions and respect them. Those who don't like them have a choice.

 

That is not to say that there is a monopoly on standards, there's not, just different ones, and if they don't suit. then please just go away and find something more suitable. The tail will never wag the dog.

 

Tonight's rant over.

 

It's the fact that we are living in the time of me me me. I am more important than anyone else so the requirements, published and well known in advance, can't possibly apply to me.

 

And for the same reason courtesy and respect for others no longer exists to many people, because me me me is all that matters.

 

The same remain that we read "It's my vacation I'll ...." so often, because it matters not that it is also everyone else's vacation.

[pepperrn]

What is it about rules and regulations, no matter how well they are publicised, that some people seem determined to see just how far they can flout them, or what boundaries they can push?

It's not confined to dress codes, but endemic wherever you look.

There is a presumption, that these rules/laws apply to everyone else, but not me. The dress code is for the wimps, I'll wear what I want. I can park my car wherever I want. I can talk during concerts. The towel rule doesn't apply to me, etc.etc..

The bottom line is that there are rules and if you want to participate, then you follow the rules.

If you would rather try to push the boundaries, then don't bother, just push off somewhere else.

Interestingly, you never hear of those who actually adhere to the dress codes trying to bring the standards higher and pushing for even higher dress standards. It seems to be only those who believe in the LCD who are determined to do their utmost to upset tradition.

Well, the vast majority of us are happy with the traditions and respect them. Those who don't like them have a choice.

That is not to say that there is a monopoly on standards, there's not, just different ones, and if they don't suit. then please just go away and find something more suitable. The tail will never wag the dog.

Tonight's rant over.

I wish there was a "like" button.

But there isn't so this will have to do.

 

:) :) :)

[GUT2407]

I'm going to chime in here. If you can't compromise your very strong feelings about dressing up to accommodate a written dress code, then I believe you should look for other transportation. Other passengers might not be offended, but most choose Cunard because of the formal atmosphere at night. And they deserve respect for their choice.

 

PS Love the area around Gualala. And needless to say, I would not wear a cocktail dress to dinner there!

 

Pretty simple really isn't it.

[pris993]

"Looking smart" is subjective. The time, money and effort it would take to dress up is simply something in which I have no interest. I am not being critical of those that get a kick out of such things, it is just not me.

 

I live in California, and there are oodles of very decent restaurants where one need not dress up. I haven't been to a formal wedding in years as others in my family are down to earth, outdoor types who tend to have weddings in places like Yosemite where a dress would NOT look smart! If a wedding demanded something formal, I would do my best to get out of going. If I HAD to dress up, I could, but I wouldn't like it. :)

 

In response to several other suggestions - We are thinking of a TA in October departing from the US, not the other way around. Thus, there do not seem to be many choices other than Cunard. We fly to Africa every year and I am looking for alternatives to the long flight. A ship seems like a nice alternative for part of the trip, and an opportunity to relax while en-route to my idea of the perfect vacation. I would not be the least bit embarrassed to not dress up, I just wanted to know if it is possible to do it without offending people.

 

I am from California too, actual I was born in San Francisco. What passes for California casual these days I consider for the most part sloppy.

 

If you are looking for some options for travel without air you might look into the possibility of traveling by freighter... you might even be able to make all the way to Africa. And you would not need to be concerned about dressing up. You may very well need more time then you would on a crossing on the OM2. Just a suggestion. This type of travel is for the very independent traveler. I don't blame for wanting something more relaxing they going by air.

[JuniorCruisers]

What is it about rules and regulations, no matter how well they are publicised, that some people seem determined to see just how far they can flout them, or what boundaries they can push?

 

It's not confined to dress codes, but endemic wherever you look.

 

There is a presumption, that these rules/laws apply to everyone else, but not me. The dress code is for the wimps, I'll wear what I want. I can park my car wherever I want. I can talk during concerts. The towel rule doesn't apply to me, etc.etc..

 

The bottom line is that there are rules and if you want to participate, then you follow the rules.

 

If you would rather try to push the boundaries, then don't bother, just push off somewhere else.

 

Interestingly, you never hear of those who actually adhere to the dress codes trying to bring the standards higher and pushing for even higher dress standards. It seems to be only those who believe in the LCD who are determined to do their utmost to upset tradition.

 

Well, the vast majority of us are happy with the traditions and respect them. Those who don't like them have a choice.

 

That is not to say that there is a monopoly on standards, there's not, just different ones, and if they don't suit. then please just go away and find something more suitable. The tail will never wag the dog.

 

Tonight's rant over.

 

THIS! Have truer words ever been spoken? Thank you for articulating what most of us are thinking!

[3rdGenCunarder]

It's the fact that we are living in the time of me me me. I am more important than anyone else so the requirements, published and well known in advance, can't possibly apply to me.

 

And for the same reason courtesy and respect for others no longer exists to many people, because me me me is all that matters.

 

The same remain that we read "It's my vacation I'll ...." so often, because it matters not that it is also everyone else's vacation.

 

No you aren't--I AM! :p

 

Seriously, I agree with you. Many people have reached a point of self-involvement so extreme that if you pointed out how rude and inconsiderate they are, they'd be shocked. Social skills are disappearing. Some parents are sending their kids to classes where they learn social skills and manners because kids only know how to interact with a screen.

[pris993]

Sadly, vast swatches of the United States have become waste lands as far as tradition or even fine living goes. In many places wearing a tie brands you as being a member of law enforcement and many consider changing out to a heavier weight plastic and upgrading the paper napkin to be fine dining. So it is a chore for Cunard to market its ships in the US as upscale experiences when the ,majority of the public are into BBQ stands and T shirts

 

 

I agree with you regarding the vast swatches of the US... I have also noticed in my travels abroad over the past 30 years, it seems the USA's love for jeans and tennis shoes has crossed the Atlantic... it is amazing to me when I visit major European cities and notice a sea of jeans and tennis shoes and now days flip flops. I remember my TA saying that she was asked not to walk through the lobby of a nice hotel in Paris because she was wearing jeans -- this was probably back in the late l980s, how things have changed. By contrast, it was refreshing to see a sign outside the main dining room at the Brown Palace Hotel (a historic hotel) in downtown Denver indicating men would not be served if they did not wear a jacket and tie. I don't know if that is still the case at the Brown Palace, have not been there in years. Hopefully things will swing back the other way some day and we get back to some refinement.

[kendon]

Interesting, as I was just having a discussion with some friends over dinner. The main reason that I would cruise on Cunard again is for the general behavior/manners of the passengers and evening dress code. Very recently off the QM2 and I can't say the food is calling me back, nor the evening entertainment. However, the daytime lectures were great, and afternoon tea was also terrific. The general ambience in the evening was a delight, and the pleasant behavior of the passengers stood out to us. Cunard, please don't change the dress code.

[babs135]

Interesting thread. Our DD recently took her very first cruise/crossing with us on the QM2 (it was our second) and had already decided on her clothes for formal nights. However, having watched a programme about the liner she promptly went out and bought a couple of slightly more 'smarter' dresses because she wanted to be like everyone else. Dressed in all their finery :D

 

As someone who lives in trousers and t-shirts she thoroughly enjoyed the experience and when we said we were booking another crossing (25th November) she asked to join us and has already bought another 'smart' dress.

 

I would say that there are times when I feel it's an imposition to have to 'dress up' but I would hate for Cunard to relax the dress code. It really is something special.

 

To the OP I would just say that based on what you have said Cunard is not for you. Yes, you can get away without dressing up, but parts of the ship will be off limits to you and (reading between the lines), I get the feeling that how you will be dressed will make you stand out like a sore thumb. Maybe that doesn't bother you, it's your choice after all but there is a certain very pleasant and convivial atmosphere on the ship after people have changed out of their 'day clothes' and it's just so nice to go along with the flow.

 

We all have to make compromises in life whether we want to or not, maybe joining the flow on Cunard is worth having a go. You might find that you actually like it.

 

If you do decided to book, please come back after your trip and let us know how you got on.

[john watson]

When on Cunard voyages during formal nights should I observe a man dressed in casual clothing I just think to myself; what a numpty and carry on about my business of having a good evening. I do not think you will ever stop these people from from booking and making a spectacle of themselves.

 

Regards John

[pepperrn]

When on Cunard voyages during formal nights should I observe a man dressed in casual clothing I just think to myself; what a numpty and carry on about my business of having a good evening. I do not think you will ever stop these people from from booking and making a spectacle of themselves. Regards John

:D .

 

Well said :)

Edited August 26, 2015 by pepperrn

[foster269]

Hello,on Queen Elizabeth, last year,on two seperate occasions a man was asked to leave the Commodore because they were not wearing jackets.Both accepted readily although one did just say he thought it was only relevant on formal nights.

We were sharing our dining table with a rather loud man.On the first formal night a man entered the dining room without a suit.Our table companion,raised his arm clicked his fingers and shouted very very loudly, "Maitre, I thought there was a dress code".The rest of the table squirming with embarresment.

The staff member said he would investigate.He returned to say that Cunard had lost the passengers Tuxedo.I think if I had been that man no matter who's fault it was I would have been too self concious to dine in the MDR that night.The volume continued on our table alas.

Rodger.