Safety on Carnival... How much do you trust your ship's crew?

[Pyrate13]

I have cruised Disney, 4 times, don't consider them superior at all, certainly not the "gold standard". The passengers still talk and ignore the safety briefing. Heck, a couple of times we didn't even get to see where our lifeboat was located as the briefing was in a lounge.

 

Still waiting to hear your solution to your concerns. It's easy to complain, solutions, not so much so.

 

Like I said initially, I'll trust the crew.

[chengkp75]

 

I feel that the leadership on each ship will make the biggest difference in an emergency situation. And, I feel this is true in many areas of life. Hopefully, Carnival Corporation has learned many lessons from the captian's behavior on the Concordia, and has implemented steps and, possibly new captains, to prevent the same situation from arising in the future.

 

 

Leadership is a big part, but training and understanding of the dynamics of an emergency must be taught at all levels. Those who know my posts on the Concordia know that I have nothing but contempt for Schettino, but there was nothing in his prior service to indicate that he would act the way he did. As I've said, you can put all the new Captains you want in place, but there is no guarantee how they will behave in an actual emergency.

 

As someone who has ACTUALLY read the official investigation reports on the Concordia, Splendor, Triumph, and Grandeur incidents, I know what the crews did right and what they did wrong. For the most part, the crews' training and response were very good. There were instances where training failed, and these areas were addressed for upgrading. There are always lessons learned from any incident, whether air, ship, train or car.

 

I feel that Carnival crews, since they are being targeted, have shown in the past that they do a good job of emergency preparedness.

[jimbo5544]

Leadership is a big part, but training and understanding of the dynamics of an emergency must be taught at all levels. Those who know my posts on the Concordia know that I have nothing but contempt for Schettino, but there was nothing in his prior service to indicate that he would act the way he did. As I've said, you can put all the new Captains you want in place, but there is no guarantee how they will behave in an actual emergency.

 

As someone who has ACTUALLY read the official investigation reports on the Concordia, Splendor, Triumph, and Grandeur incidents, I know what the crews did right and what they did wrong. For the most part, the crews' training and response were very good. There were instances where training failed, and these areas were addressed for upgrading. There are always lessons learned from any incident, whether air, ship, train or car.

 

I feel that Carnival crews, since they are being targeted, have shown in the past that they do a good job of emergency preparedness.

 

As always, thanks for for adding to the discussion with your expertise, knowledge and experience.....

[jimbo5544]

I have cruised Disney, 4 times, don't consider them superior at all, certainly not the "gold standard". The passengers still talk and ignore the safety briefing. Heck, a couple of times we didn't even get to see where our lifeboat was located as the briefing was in a lounge.

 

Still waiting to hear your solution to your concerns. It's easy to complain, solutions, not so much so.

 

Like I said initially, I'll trust the crew.

We will do likewise, echo your comments on Disney being the gold standard as well.

[elliair]

Your concerns are endemic to life in these times. We have allowed ourselves to be swayed by decades of advertising and governmental controls that have made us into Lemmings. You need to work on making your concerns into a plan of self reliance. Your concerns are valid, its been proven in the Concordia disaster and other ship mishaps. Its also been proven that many of the crew are strong willed well meaning hard working heroes too. Never anywhere rely on anyone to secure your safety and future. You are the only one responsible for your future. I don't dwell on my plans to escape dilemma ruin my cruises but I always am watching being observant and most importantly forbid any defeatist thoughts to enter my head that sway how I live my life be it on a cruise or walking into a hairy biker bar. Stop being a Lemming following the crowd controlled by what "they" want you to do and fend for yourself.

 

Best comment here yet! Our family mantra has always been "beans, bullets and bandaids, get out of my way." You should put the bolded part in your sig line!

[curious_st]

So..... you pick out "dozens" of drunks (assuming that you think many, many more so on a Fantasy class ship) during muster and this leads you to believe this means the crew does a crappy job in the event of an emergency? :confused:

 

Black Friday and cruise ship fires..... common analogy. My response is that cruise lines in general and Carnival specifically do an excellent job in emergency preparedness. They treat it with the seriousness and dedication that it deserves and requires. They train almost on a daily basis and always in a serious and professional manner. I am basing this on 35 cruises. Be happy to discuss specifics with you if you wish.;)

 

Did you not read the quote that I quoted? It sounds like you did not.

[LuckyZ]

Your concerns are endemic to life in these times. We have allowed ourselves to be swayed by decades of advertising and governmental controls that have made us into Lemmings. You need to work on making your concerns into a plan of self reliance. Your concerns are valid, its been proven in the Concordia disaster and other ship mishaps. Its also been proven that many of the crew are strong willed well meaning hard working heroes too. Never anywhere rely on anyone to secure your safety and future. You are the only one responsible for your future. I don't dwell on my plans to escape dilemma ruin my cruises but I always am watching being observant and most importantly forbid any defeatist thoughts to enter my head that sway how I live my life be it on a cruise or walking into a hairy biker bar. Stop being a Lemming following the crowd controlled by what "they" want you to do and fend for yourself.

 

Wow. "Endemic", "Lemmings", "defeatists". I feel twice as smart as before I read this post because I had to look in the dictionary to understand what you were trying to say.

 

PS to the OP - you make quite a jump from dissatisfaction for several events to questioning security. I don't get it but it's a free world

Edited October 24, 2015 by LuckyZ

[richstowe]

From my experience in many, many, many traveling situations, it is usually the passengers that cause the problems because they always have better ideas about how things should be done. On debarkations, it is usually all those people who decide that they do not have to wait for their "numbers" to be called that flood the exit points and cause the backups, not the crew members giving directions. During those exit processes at ports, it is usually those people who cut the lines and ignore the directions that cause the processes to get so backed up that the waits become unbearable. At muster drills, it is usually the people that have not followed the directions that have been repeated 812 times over the P.A system since you got on board or on the T.Vs that cause the hiccups in the process. "Let's not go to the muster drill, they won't miss us!", "Sure we can bring a drink with us!", "Why should I shut my mouth when the crew members are explaining things?", "I have been on a ship before, I know all this stuff so I don't have to listen!", "I can smoke on my balcony and/or throw my butts over the railing because I know that will not cause a fire!", "I don't have to wait in line for anything, I can push my way to the front when ever I want to!", "Why should I listen to any of these low salaried foreign people on the crew? I'm an American and I have all the answers!" Look in the mirror and you will probably see a big part of the problems.

 

Best comment here yet! Our family mantra has always been "beans, bullets and bandaids, get out of my way." You should put the bolded part in your sig line!

Your attitude is dangerous elliair .I could say uncivilized . Reading comments like this reminds me of Lord of the Flies . BTW , are you "packing" on board ?

 

Retired_to_Cruise, your comments are spot on . The dangerous ones are those who, as you posted, believe "Why should I listen to any of these low salaried foreign people on the crew? I'm an American and I have all the answers!". Scary people .

 

Frankly I'm no lemming but I start with the assumption that safety procedures have been well thought out in the very remote chance they are required.

[curious_st]

I have cruised Disney, 4 times, don't consider them superior at all, certainly not the "gold standard". The passengers still talk and ignore the safety briefing. Heck, a couple of times we didn't even get to see where our lifeboat was located as the briefing was in a lounge.

 

Still waiting to hear your solution to your concerns. It's easy to complain, solutions, not so much so.

 

Like I said initially, I'll trust the crew.

 

I am hoping that others, who have much experience sailing many lines for many years, have suggestions for improvement. If another cruise line or marine operation is doing something well, then all other lines should follow suit.

 

I have never been in an emergency situation on a ship, so I have no firsthand experience. However, for routine activities, such as directing guests to their shore excursions, could be much improved with a little communication in coordination. The person who cleared the shore excursions passengers out of the theater earlier could perhaps message/call/radio the person directing passengers on deck 4, and inform him that all passengers with shore excursions need to go ahead and take the tender. They could even put a sign out on deck 4 and one at the theater that gives the same message. This would prevent passengers from being at the mercy of waiting on the crew member in the theater if being sent in circles if they asked the deck 4 crew member first. Or, if it is a regular occurrence that shore excursions that start several hours after reaching port in Grand Cayman need to just proceed to tender, then why not write that on the shore excursion tickets instead of some bogus meeting time and location?

 

As for the directing of passengers in circles during debarkation, I noticed that regardless of the question asked, each employee gave the same response directing passengers to another place. I am suspicious that these crew members have no authority to give any other directions other than the canned statement they give, even if a passenger just came from the person they are told to direct them to. I also noticed that the crew members on deck 7 where passengers were debarking had no walkie talkies or radios. Why not give these crew members a way to communicate with the other crew members working debarkation? Why not give them some authority to say something other than proceed up 1 or 2 or 3 decks with all your luggage (and elevators being tied up with passengers in wheelchairs), find the person you asked 10 minutes ago,and ask again? Wouldn't it be better for a crew member on deck 7 to radio the crew member on deck 8 or deck 9 or deck 10, and ask them what this passenger needs to do? For some reason, the system of communication is not in place for this to occur.

 

I am hoping their is a radio/walkie talkie system in place during emergencies? But, how many crew members will have access to that communication? Would it be only a few crew members at each muster station, with 2 dozen other crew members depending on those few to accurately and adequately pass on information. Is authority sufficiently delegated if some horrible condition occurs and all officers on the bridge are incapacitated? It seemed that the lack of leadership crippled many crew members on Concordia, so was part of that due to the remaining crew members feeling unable to make decisions and take matters into their own hands when the unfortunate time came? Would crew members have been sending passengers back to their cabins and wait for announcements and telling them everything was fine on the Concordia if they felt more empowered to make a decision and had been previously given authority if there was a lack of direction from above? Would those same crew members have been directing passengers back to their cabins if it had somehow been communicated to them earlier that the ship was taking on water and safety systems were already failing?

 

We live in an age with so much technology for communication and so many methods of automation and automatic alerts and monitoring. There is no reason to not have a better system for communicating, alerting, organizing, coordinating, etc.

[chengkp75]

I am hoping that others, who have much experience sailing many lines for many years, have suggestions for improvement. If another cruise line or marine operation is doing something well, then all other lines should follow suit.

 

I have never been in an emergency situation on a ship, so I have no firsthand experience. However, for routine activities, such as directing guests to their shore excursions, could be much improved with a little communication in coordination. The person who cleared the shore excursions passengers out of the theater earlier could perhaps message/call/radio the person directing passengers on deck 4, and inform him that all passengers with shore excursions need to go ahead and take the tender. They could even put a sign out on deck 4 and one at the theater that gives the same message. This would prevent passengers from being at the mercy of waiting on the crew member in the theater if being sent in circles if they asked the deck 4 crew member first. Or, if it is a regular occurrence that shore excursions that start several hours after reaching port in Grand Cayman need to just proceed to tender, then why not write that on the shore excursion tickets instead of some bogus meeting time and location?

 

As for the directing of passengers in circles during debarkation, I noticed that regardless of the question asked, each employee gave the same response directing passengers to another place. I am suspicious that these crew members have no authority to give any other directions other than the canned statement they give, even if a passenger just came from the person they are told to direct them to. I also noticed that the crew members on deck 7 where passengers were debarking had no walkie talkies or radios. Why not give these crew members a way to communicate with the other crew members working debarkation? Why not give them some authority to say something other than proceed up 1 or 2 or 3 decks with all your luggage (and elevators being tied up with passengers in wheelchairs), find the person you asked 10 minutes ago,and ask again? Wouldn't it be better for a crew member on deck 7 to radio the crew member on deck 8 or deck 9 or deck 10, and ask them what this passenger needs to do? For some reason, the system of communication is not in place for this to occur.

 

I am hoping their is a radio/walkie talkie system in place during emergencies? But, how many crew members will have access to that communication? Would it be only a few crew members at each muster station, with 2 dozen other crew members depending on those few to accurately and adequately pass on information. Is authority sufficiently delegated if some horrible condition occurs and all officers on the bridge are incapacitated? It seemed that the lack of leadership crippled many crew members on Concordia, so was part of that due to the remaining crew members feeling unable to make decisions and take matters into their own hands when the unfortunate time came? Would crew members have been sending passengers back to their cabins and wait for announcements and telling them everything was fine on the Concordia if they felt more empowered to make a decision and had been previously given authority if there was a lack of direction from above? Would those same crew members have been directing passengers back to their cabins if it had somehow been communicated to them earlier that the ship was taking on water and safety systems were already failing?

 

We live in an age with so much technology for communication and so many methods of automation and automatic alerts and monitoring. There is no reason to not have a better system for communicating, alerting, organizing, coordinating, etc.

 

I'm not going to address your issues with normal ship's operations.

 

The crew have about 100 to 200 radios, and many, many more "push to talk" phones to communicate.

 

The fault in the Concordia lies squarely with the Captain, who should have initiated the passenger muster as soon as reports of flooding came in, and who should have kept the passengers mustered all the time. While initiative is good in emergencies, the last thing you want is for hundreds of crew going off doing what they think is right. That eats to pure chaos, and in a situation other than the Concordia, it might have led to passenger injury or fatality by launching boats when not warranted.

[richstowe]

The fault in the Concordia lies squarely with the Captain, who should have initiated the passenger muster as soon as reports of flooding came in, and who should have kept the passengers mustered all the time. While initiative is good in emergencies, the last thing you want is for hundreds of crew going off doing what they think is right. That eats to pure chaos, and in a situation other than the Concordia, it might have led to passenger injury or fatality by launching boats when not warranted.

I agree that "the fault in the Concordia lies squarely with the Captain", except that keeping the passengers mustered was about the 5th thing in sequence that he did wrong . It started with trying to impress some babe by seeing how close he could get to Isola del Giglio and it just kept getting worse . Neglecting to timely muster the passengers was just about the halfway point in that disaster .

[Pyrate13]

I am hoping that others, who have much experience sailing many lines for many years, have suggestions for improvement. If another cruise line or marine operation is doing something well, then all other lines should follow suit.

 

I'm confused. You hope others will have suggestions for improvement but you are the one making the complaint. Besides which, your complaint concerns non emergency situations but you are asking how others would feel concerning an emergency and trusting the crew. Two different scenarios.

 

If you want suggestions for improving the emergency actions of the crew you have nothing to compare them to as you have not been involved in such an action, which is great by the way.

 

As far as the Concordia is concerned, none of us were there to witness what exactly occurred with the crew and their actions so I don't see how we can judge them. According to Chengkp75, a professional that did read the official report, as well as other emergency situation reports, the crews responded well for the most part. Having been an emergency responder and involved in situations I will take that response. No situation ever ends up with an exactly 100% perfect response. Granted, some have been very close.

 

So, with that said, once again, I will trust the crew.

[elliair]

Your attitude is dangerous elliair .I could say uncivilized . Reading comments like this reminds me of Lord of the Flies . BTW , are you "packing" on board ?

 

Retired_to_Cruise, your comments are spot on . The dangerous ones are those who, as you posted, believe "Why should I listen to any of these low salaried foreign people on the crew? I'm an American and I have all the answers!". Scary people .

 

Frankly I'm no lemming but I start with the assumption that safety procedures have been well thought out in the very remote chance they are required.

 

May sound dangerous to you, but in the big picture of things, if one does not have an escape plan then you're just plain dumb. Why do you call crew members ""these low salaried foreign people?" I suppose that's what you think about them. Yes you are scary.

[berrieh]

I was actually 5 minutes early to the the theater for the shore excursion, which I mentioned above. But, as threads get longer, it's easy to miss statements.

 

I didn't miss the statement, but it's entirely possible they moved before that time, yes. I have not taken very many Carnival excursions (we prefer DIY in most cases) and I only recall one at a tender port. We did go 20 minutes early, which we believed/had heard was the standard to arrive. And IIRC we did get on the tender slightly early, and some folks caught up to us later. (This was years ago; like I said, very few Carnival excursions.) This was so tenders could also serve other guests since one was ready and so many of us were there (as someone who has mostly taken tenders on my own, without priority, I appreciated this sentiment); also because they were separating us into groups anyway so they had enough for the first few groups. I do not believe people were actually "left behind." (In fact, we had some friends show up late so they weren't on our bus but we saw them later so they'd made it.) I could be wrong but this is the scenario I envision. Since so many people show up early, as long as they are accommodating those who show up on time, a tiny bit of run-around doesn't seem that much to ask to help many others. Of course, when we had such tickets, the desk advised us to show up 15-20 minutes early out of courtesy.

 

You say this worries you, but --- Were you truly inconvenienced and missed your excursion? It seems to me that you simply missed the crowd for whatever reason and I assume - since you don't say you missed out - you still made your excursion. So what is the real worry? What they promised to do was done, it was achieved, right? Comparing that to an emergency, the goal will be to save the passengers - that may not be super comfortable but hopefully it will be done.

 

You mention Didney. I have never cruised Disney, but I have heard that they are superior in pretty much every way to most other cruise lines. I was docked beside them in Port Canaveral and saw that their muster was taking a very long time and seemed to have many more people working than Carnival, which I assumed was in an attempt to better prepare the large number of children onboard. Does Disney do muster better in any way? Do they appear to take additional steps toward safety than other lines? I am just curious, because many seem to hail Disney as the gold standard for many things.

 

I feel like others that the "gold standard" is far over-stated (I prefer Carnival) BUT as to muster, I will say I have found DCL and CCL have both done very good jobs of taking it seriously. But I have only been on the longer sailings on nicer boats on CCL and have no idea if that's true on a 3 day booze cruise or something. I do not feel DCL does "safety" any better, no. I do feel both DCL and CCL do better than RCCL but that's just because I swear RCCL never tells anyone to not talk over them and I've never even heard the drill. How slow/fast muster takes usually depends on everyone showing up on time, in my opinion, not how good it is. A fast muster can be a very good muster if the passengers show up on time, stay quiet, etc.

[curious_st]

I'm confused. You hope others will have suggestions for improvement but you are the one making the complaint. Besides which, your complaint concerns non emergency situations but you are asking how others would feel concerning an emergency and trusting the crew. Two different scenarios.

 

If you want suggestions for improving the emergency actions of the crew you have nothing to compare them to as you have not been involved in such an action, which is great by the way.

 

As far as the Concordia is concerned, none of us were there to witness what exactly occurred with the crew and their actions so I don't see how we can judge them. According to Chengkp75, a professional that did read the official report, as well as other emergency situation reports, the crews responded well for the most part. Having been an emergency responder and involved in situations I will take that response. No situation ever ends up with an exactly 100% perfect response. Granted, some have been very close.

 

So, with that said, once again, I will trust the crew.

 

 

I did, indeed, give suggestions. My issues focus on poor communication and general disorganization. As an emergency responder, you should know that communication and organization are keys to successful operations. I feel that the chaos that occurs in day to day operation on a cruise ship may not be the actual problem, but a symptom of a much deeper problem lying below the surface. So, no I do not believe that crew behavior during non-emergency operations is mutually exclusive from what crew behavior would be during a true emergency.

[curious_st]

I didn't miss the statement, but it's entirely possible they moved before that time, yes. I have not taken very many Carnival excursions (we prefer DIY in most cases) and I only recall one at a tender port. We did go 20 minutes early, which we believed/had heard was the standard to arrive. And IIRC we did get on the tender slightly early, and some folks caught up to us later. (This was years ago; like I said, very few Carnival excursions.) This was so tenders could also serve other guests since one was ready and so many of us were there (as someone who has mostly taken tenders on my own, without priority, I appreciated this sentiment); also because they were separating us into groups anyway so they had enough for the first few groups. I do not believe people were actually "left behind." (In fact, we had some friends show up late so they weren't on our bus but we saw them later so they'd made it.) I could be wrong but this is the scenario I envision. Since so many people show up early, as long as they are accommodating those who show up on time, a tiny bit of run-around doesn't seem that much to ask to help many others. Of course, when we had such tickets, the desk advised us to show up 15-20 minutes early out of courtesy.

 

You say this worries you, but --- Were you truly inconvenienced and missed your excursion? It seems to me that you simply missed the crowd for whatever reason and I assume - since you don't say you missed out - you still made your excursion. So what is the real worry? What they promised to do was done, it was achieved, right? Comparing that to an emergency, the goal will be to save the passengers - that may not be super comfortable but hopefully it will be done.

 

 

 

I feel like others that the "gold standard" is far over-stated (I prefer Carnival) BUT as to muster, I will say I have found DCL and CCL have both done very good jobs of taking it seriously. But I have only been on the longer sailings on nicer boats on CCL and have no idea if that's true on a 3 day booze cruise or something. I do not feel DCL does "safety" any better, no. I do feel both DCL and CCL do better than RCCL but that's just because I swear RCCL never tells anyone to not talk over them and I've never even heard the drill. How slow/fast muster takes usually depends on everyone showing up on time, in my opinion, not how good it is. A fast muster can be a very good muster if the passengers show up on time, stay quiet, etc.

 

 

For this particular excursion, the start time of the actual excursion was 10:30. There was another line on the ticket that had the meeting time listed at 9:30 with the theater listed as the meeting location. While, I could see arriving early if the only information listed was the start time of the excursion, I cannot see that it would be expected to show up an additional 30 minutes earlier than the meeting time listed. I was 5 minutes early, and was sent in circles. Carnival has no excuse.

[berrieh]

For this particular excursion, the start time of the actual excursion was 10:30. There was another line on the ticket that had the meeting time listed at 9:30 with the theater listed as the meeting location. While, I could see arriving early if the only information listed was the start time of the excursion, I cannot see that it would be expected to show up an additional 30 minutes earlier than the meeting time listed. I was 5 minutes early, and was sent in circles. Carnival has no excuse.

 

I did not say you should be "expected" to arrive 30 minutes early. I said that if enough people had, they may have moved them early and thus had to send you back and forth (because they moved them after you talked to person #1 at Deck 4 but before you got there). If you had gone directly to the place the first time, you wouldn't have been sent in circles, you would have merely been sent to the next place (this is likely what they figured would happen with the last few guests arriving) and it is not a huge deal to most people. Especially if they are doing it to make tendering run more smoothly for the rest of the guests waiting.

 

Apparently it was a huge deal to you, but I do not think it indicates unsafe conditions onboard or a lack of general communication as nothing "bad" really happened except you had to walk a little extra. I was just explaining how it could've happened. Assuming you did not miss your excursion, I don't see the harm for which Carnival even needs an excuse in the case of that, honestly.

[jimbo5544]

Did you not read the quote that I quoted? It sounds like you did not.

 

Actually I did, the whole thread! Do I get bonus points?:) I was responding to your response. I thought that was the way that it works...no?

[jimbo5544]

I did not say you should be "expected" to arrive 30 minutes early. I said that if enough people had, they may have moved them early and thus had to send you back and forth (because they moved them after you talked to person #1 at Deck 4 but before you got there). If you had gone directly to the place the first time, you wouldn't have been sent in circles, you would have merely been sent to the next place (this is likely what they figured would happen with the last few guests arriving) and it is not a huge deal to most people. Especially if they are doing it to make tendering run more smoothly for the rest of the guests waiting.

 

Apparently it was a huge deal to you, but I do not think it indicates unsafe conditions onboard or a lack of general communication as nothing "bad" really happened except you had to walk a little extra. I was just explaining how it could've happened. Assuming you did not miss your excursion, I don't see the harm for which Carnival even needs an excuse in the case of that, honestly.

You actually made the point much better than I.

[loubetti]

I agree with this. In my 20 years of flying, I've (thankfully) encountered a small handful of emergencies, none of which have required a complete passenger evacuation. And even though we are trained over and over on a variety of emergency situations, and we brief and refresh procedures at the beginning of each trip with a new crew, the reality is that nobody knows with 100% accuracy how things will transpire in the event of a real emergency. Too many variables at play.

 

We do have standardized procedures, so even if I'm flying with crew members who i've never met before, everyone has been trained the same exact way so I know what I can expect of them and what they can expect of me.

 

The best piece of advice that I can give anybody reading this thread is that, no matter how frequently you travel, whether by airplane, ship or any of other means of transportation, PAY ATTENTION to safety briefings. It only takes a few minutes of your life but it can save it (yes, I'm talking to you, Platinum frequent traveler, rolling your eyes at this suggestion). Just knowing where your nearest exit is and how to get there can make a immense difference. All it takes is for one idiot who didn't pay attention to freak out during a real emergency and to run the opposite way, trampling people and disrupting an orderly evacuation. It can change a headline from "everyone safe" to "multiple deaths".

 

It is said right there, by first a mariner, then an aviator, and now another aviator, who has been flying for 40 years, and cruising for 30.

 

There is absolutely no comparison, and I do totally disagree with the OP, between how routine things are handled on a ship as opposed to a true emergency. Comparing them is not just "apples to oranges" but "apples to peanuts"!

 

Every emergency can be different, and our current example is Costa Concordia. However, go back 50 years and we had another, "Andrea Doria", which suffered a higher death toll than Concordia.

 

Look up HAL's Prinsendam fire back in the 80s, every one safe.

 

I was on QE2 when we hit an un-charted rock in 1992, which tore a 150' gash in the bottom of the hull. Never a call to muster, as one was not necessary (we were already close to the bottom), and we got another day on the cruise, and credit for the next one!

 

As to the OP, no disrespect, but you really need to cruise more and also do some homework. Perhaps you are getting some here.:)

[SadieN]

I don't really think emergency procedures are related to the kinds of things you're talking about, OP. Though I am sure no crew would maintain perfect order and communication in an emergency simply because emergencies usually evolve (things change) and people have to adapt to the situation, plus passengers would be panicking and not following directions (some, not all) - that's 100% guaranteed.

 

People have mentioned the Concordia, where most of the crew and passengers were saved but where the captain shamefully abandoned ship early. I do not think every crew would be like the Concordia's captain and officers - I think that's personal. I think there are many captains who would look for the safety of their crew and passengers and take more responsibility. I don't think that's a "corporation" thing though but a personal thing that would vary person to person.

 

................

 

 

For every Concordia captain I would like to think there are many more 'Miracle on the Hudson' captains.

As stated before none know how we will act like during an emergency. Just hoping for that the long serving crew members their training kicks in.

 

Question--lifeboats are manned by Able Bodied Seamen. How do they get their licenses?

[berrieh]

For every Concordia captain I would like to think there are many more 'Miracle on the Hudson' captains.

As stated before none know how we will act like during an emergency. Just hoping for that the long serving crew members their training kicks in.

 

Question--lifeboats are manned by Able Bodied Seamen. How do they get their licenses?

 

I agree with you that I think most Captains (and most people) will do what is right when an emergency comes. But I have more faith in the human spirit than some do. :)

 

As to checking the licensing, I believe it's under US Coast Guard SOLAS regulations (someone said that ships of US Registry are regulated by the US Coast Guard and another person pointed out cruise ships almost uniformly have foreign registries BUT to operate in US waters at all - which most do at some point - the ships must meet SOLAS regs, which include things like proper emergency drills, crew member competency and licensing, and appropriate equipment. They are checked quarterly. Receiving the licensing? I have no idea how many different groups can provide licensing, but I know SOLAS regs allow the US Coast Guard to "test" said competency. Not sure how they would ever tell who "manned" the lifeboat in the thick of it.

Edited October 24, 2015 by berrieh

[clearwaters]

I am not mad. And, the debarkation and shore excursion procedures are much more unsettling to me than anything to do with a concert. I just feel that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. The crew demonstrated behavior that showed disorganization and lack of communication, even when it came to routine tasks.

 

You mention muster. Muster is a joke. Seriously. I am sad to say it, but it's true. At muster, one of the crew members was encouraging the people in my station to drink their drinks as fast as they could, because the outside pool decks (you know, the decks that pretty much always stay wet if the pool is in use or its raining) are "too slippery when wet" and they need to hurry and get rid of all liquids quickly. This included encouraging those that were already sloppy drunk to bottoms up. Also, the lady demonstrating the life jacket clasps and light/whistle had her back turned to the majority of the people at the muster station while she demonstrated. I know how to work it, but I'm not sure if everyone there does.

 

On my cruise a year ago, the actual safety information was mumbled through indiscernibly in about 5 minutes time. However, they very clearly enunciated every single word for the 15 minute commercial trying to sell passengers drink passages, massages, and steak dinners. It was very evident that they cared more about their commercial than the muster.

 

And, quite honestly, the majority of passengers paid no attention at either of these muster drills. So, I would thoroughly expect passengers to be completely lost as to what to do in a true emergency.

 

No, you are NOT mad. And those passengers who have a laissez-faire attitude about safety are fools. I repeat, absolute bloody FOOLS. In fact, I have always wondered why we are not actually lowered onto the water inside the life boats during the drill. We should be. Goodness knows we are allowed on the ship early enough. We would be sure: 1. There are enough boats for everyone, and, 2. The life boats are mechanically sound. There is nothing wrong with you and I hope I am near you on a ship if, God forbid, anything tragic happens.

[chengkp75]

MOV's

For every Concordia captain I would like to think there are many more 'Miracle on the Hudson' captains.

As stated before none know how we will act like during an emergency. Just hoping for that the long serving crew members their training kicks in.

 

Question--lifeboats are manned by Able Bodied Seamen. How do they get their licenses?

 

Actually, lifeboats are not manned by A.B.'s. There must be two certified "lifeboatmen" on-board for each lifeboat carried, but there is no requirement that these people are actually assigned to lifeboats as their emergency station.

 

Every ship's deck or engine officer, whatever nationality, gets certified as a lifeboatmen as well. On foreign flag ships, the number of officers is used to meet the required number of lifeboatmen, even though the governing bodies know that these officers will be nowhere near the boats when they are launched. These officers will remain on the ship with the vast majority of the crew attempting to save the ship. The decision whether to abandon ship is for the passengers, not the crew. Only after the passengers are away, and the Captain decides that the ship cannot be saved, will a further signal, one long blast, tell the crew to go to their abandon ship stations.

 

The crew who are assigned to the lifeboats are trained on-board in boat operations.

 

The exception to this are US flag cruise ships, where the USCG does not allow the deck and engine officers' lifeboatmen certificates to count towards the required number of lifeboatmen. Therefore, on US flag ships, you will find waiters, stewards, and dishwashers who are certified lifeboatmen, and are assigned to crew the boats.

 

Lifeboatmen certification is overseen by the crew member's home country, while adhering to SOLAS requirements. This involves actual training and operation of boats.

Edited October 24, 2015 by chengkp75

[berrieh]

No, you are NOT mad. And those passengers who have a laissez-faire attitude about safety are fools. I repeat, absolute bloody FOOLS. In fact, I have always wondered why we are not actually lowered onto the water inside the life boats during the drill. We should be. Goodness knows we are allowed on the ship early enough. We would be sure: 1. There are enough boats for everyone, and, 2. The life boats are mechanically sound. There is nothing wrong with you and I hope I am near you on a ship if, God forbid, anything tragic happens.

 

Is this for real or sarcasm?

 

For the same reason we don't go down the inflatable slides on airplanes, practice using the masks, or simulate a crashing plane. Who would go on a cruise if you had to simulate an "abandon ship to the lifeboats" situation each time? I certainly wouldn't! It's not because I don't value safety either - though the drills where you release lifeboats are more likely to hurt someone than an accident is to happen! - but because I understand that an emergency is both unlikely AND unpredictable. Even IF they did what you are suggesting, they would not be ready for every scenario.

 

Honestly, the likelihood of an "abandon ship" situation is as slim or slimmer than a plane crash. Both are possible. Safety information is delivered for both and should be, and people should listen and crews should be well-trained and selected for their ability to maintain composure. BUT worrying about such a situation to the point where you put guests IN LIFEBOATS routinely would be absolutely crazy.