Safety on Carnival... How much do you trust your ship's crew?

[curious_st]

I am hesitant to post this because the diehard Carnival fans are going to burn my post with their flames, but I must ask if anyone else shares my view.

 

We all know that the ship crew routinely practices for response to different emergency situations. I suppose this is so that everything will come to them as second nature in the event of a true emergency. But, they really don't seem to have a good grasp on directing passengers when it comes to actual activities that actually occur regularly.

 

I just returned from my 3rd cruise. This was onboard Paradise, which sails 4 and 5 day itineraries year round. By my estimation, they have port days 3 days out of every 9, for a total of around 120 days a year. They debark passengers every 4 to 5 days, for a total of around 80 days a year.

 

On the Grand Cayman port day, we had excursion tickets that told us to meet in the theater. Our cabin was on deck 4. We walked by the crew on deck 4 that was directing passengers to the tender. They were telling everyone to report to the location listed on the excursion tickets. So, we reported to the lounge. After hanging out in the lounge, a crew member came out and asked why we were there, because he had already told passengers to leave the lounge and go see the crew on deck 4. I explained to him that the crews on deck 4 told us to go up there. He just shook his head and told us to take the tender and look for a sign that matched our excursion ticket whenever we made it to shore. Please remember, they visit this port once every 9 days, but they still somehow have crews giving contradictory information and directions (and the shore excursion tickets are apparently wrong, too). I don't normally book shore excursions through the ship, but fellow passengers told me that this running around in circles is not out of the ordinary.

 

Debarkation was a mess. It has been on all 3 of my cruises. Every crew member tells you to head a different direction. They have no idea how to help any passenger, and just direct you to a different crew member. I witnessed a lady (who had been waiting on deck 9 that then went to the lounge and was sent to deck 7) being told to head back to deck 9 or look for the crew member in the lounge by the crew member working the deck 7 ropes. She kept telling him that she had already been sent those places, and that they sent her down and told her to ask someone on deck 7 (which she was doing). A fellow passenger ended up helping her with what she needed. So, an activity that the crew actually performs 120 times a year, results in crews giving contradictory information and having passengers running around in circles.

 

This cruise happened to also have the Heart concert. While in line for the concert, a large group cut line. One of the crew members made half of the group go back to where they were supposed to be. When passengers pointed out the rest of the group, the crew member just shrugged his shoulders and turned his back to the complaining passengers. This same crew member was a member working at my muster station. So, he can't control a line (and we all know how many lines are on cruise ships), but he is entrusted to work a muster station.

 

Also, after the concert, an announcement was made that Heart merchandise would be for sale at the Fun Shops. After the crowds cleared, we went up to check out the merchandise. The shops were closed, and a crew member told us that they could not sell the merchandise while in port and to check the shops the next day. The next day, we checked the shops. They had no idea what we were talking about and had not seen any Heart merchandise. They directed us to Guest Services. Guest Services did not know anything about Heart merchandise, either. So, even though the ship's sell thousands of dollars in merchandise each sailing, they manage to have passengers running around in circles to buy imaginary merchandise.

 

After each one of these events, I would turn to my husband and express the worry that I had about this same crew being in charge of our safety and lives during an emergency. I just can't see that they could ever get control over an emergency situation that they have merely practiced for, when they cannot get control of everyday situations that they have carried out dozens of times a year. And, this sentiment applies to all 3 of the ships that I have sailed on.

 

Am I the only one convinced that any emergency training of the crew will be overpowered by lack of crowd control, poor communication amongst members of the crew, and panic despite their best efforts to practice?

[texast518]

At 75 years, I trust my supreme being and do not try to worry about things I have no control over, sorry for your bad experiences, after 34 cruises, I just cruise on while I can.

[dettlja]

We have had similar experiences. Add to that the passengers who refuse to listen at muster and it's a recipe for disaster. My husband and I just make sure we are as prepared as we can be and we try to stick to the smaller ships. I have often caught myself thinking if disaster struck ala Concordia it would mayhem.

[joeyancho]

I am hesitant to post this because the diehard Carnival fans are going to burn my post with their flames, but I must ask if anyone else shares my view.

 

We all know that the ship crew routinely practices for response to different emergency situations. I suppose this is so that everything will come to them as second nature in the event of a true emergency. But, they really don't seem to have a good grasp on directing passengers when it comes to actual activities that actually occur regularly.

 

I just returned from my 3rd cruise. This was onboard Paradise, which sails 4 and 5 day itineraries year round. By my estimation, they have port days 3 days out of every 9, for a total of around 120 days a year. They debark passengers every 4 to 5 days, for a total of around 80 days a year.

 

On the Grand Cayman port day, we had excursion tickets that told us to meet in the theater. Our cabin was on deck 4. We walked by the crew on deck 4 that was directing passengers to the tender. They were telling everyone to report to the location listed on the excursion tickets. So, we reported to the lounge. After hanging out in the lounge, a crew member came out and asked why we were there, because he had already told passengers to leave the lounge and go see the crew on deck 4. I explained to him that the crews on deck 4 told us to go up there. He just shook his head and told us to take the tender and look for a sign that matched our excursion ticket whenever we made it to shore. Please remember, they visit this port once every 9 days, but they still somehow have crews giving contradictory information and directions (and the shore excursion tickets are apparently wrong, too). I don't normally book shore excursions through the ship, but fellow passengers told me that this running around in circles is not out of the ordinary.

 

Debarkation was a mess. It has been on all 3 of my cruises. Every crew member tells you to head a different direction. They have no idea how to help any passenger, and just direct you to a different crew member. I witnessed a lady (who had been waiting on deck 9 that then went to the lounge and was sent to deck 7) being told to head back to deck 9 or look for the crew member in the lounge by the crew member working the deck 7 ropes. She kept telling him that she had already been sent those places, and that they sent her down and told her to ask someone on deck 7 (which she was doing). A fellow passenger ended up helping her with what she needed. So, an activity that the crew actually performs 120 times a year, results in crews giving contradictory information and having passengers running around in circles.

 

This cruise happened to also have the Heart concert. While in line for the concert, a large group cut line. One of the crew members made half of the group go back to where they were supposed to be. When passengers pointed out the rest of the group, the crew member just shrugged his shoulders and turned his back to the complaining passengers. This same crew member was a member working at my muster station. So, he can't control a line (and we all know how many lines are on cruise ships), but he is entrusted to work a muster station.

 

Also, after the concert, an announcement was made that Heart merchandise would be for sale at the Fun Shops. After the crowds cleared, we went up to check out the merchandise. The shops were closed, and a crew member told us that they could not sell the merchandise while in port and to check the shops the next day. The next day, we checked the shops. They had no idea what we were talking about and had not seen any Heart merchandise. They directed us to Guest Services. Guest Services did not know anything about Heart merchandise, either. So, even though the ship's sell thousands of dollars in merchandise each sailing, they manage to have passengers running around in circles to buy imaginary merchandise.

 

After each one of these events, I would turn to my husband and express the worry that I had about this same crew being in charge of our safety and lives during an emergency. I just can't see that they could ever get control over an emergency situation that they have merely practiced for, when they cannot get control of everyday situations that they have carried out dozens of times a year. And, this sentiment applies to all 3 of the ships that I have sailed on.

 

Am I the only one convinced that any emergency training of the crew will be overpowered by lack of crowd control, poor communication amongst members of the crew, and panic despite their best efforts to practice?

 

I think it is quite a leap to assume that since they supposedly screwed up selling concert merchandise that they will be incompetent in an emergency situation. Emergency procedures are regulated by the US coast guard. Everyone must pass a test. The captain oversees emergency drills. Quite a difference from selling tee shirts or a que in the showroom. I don't think your point is valid. I think you are mad.

[Nic6318]

Not to flame.

 

I appreciate your assessment of issues that you encountered on your recent trip but it is your conclusion that to me seems to be a reach.

 

What I am saying is that if I were to experience the same situations as you had, I wouldn't give it a second thought. I guess you have. Now are you asking a question looking for reassurance that your determination may be unfair (certainly for the whole cruise line) or are you convinced that something tragic is inevitable and you are trying to convince people like myself who have a trip booked to call Carnival and cancel?

 

If the former, I sincerely believe that the crew in almost all situations will be able to manage a crisis better than you are anticipating. Don't forget that in all organizations there are individuals who won't live up to expectations but your assessment makes an evaluation of thousands of people based on your perception of a handful.

 

If the latter, then as I said, I appreciate your opinion and I would agree that you should never cruise with Carnival again, but I can't imagine too many other people acting on it.

 

 

Good luck

[Badfinger]

In a true life and death emergency, I figure it's each man for himself. I will try to locate my family so we could stick together and then make the decision to do what we had to do. If it was true survival it would be at all costs. Sorry to all of you reading this but I would not give a flying leap about anyone else but my family. And this is one of the reasons I like to book an upper deck, such as 11 or 12, towards the front. I figure if there's true emergency, it is going to be associated with the engine room or fuel storage. I want to be as far away as I can. And having a balcony room gives me at least a 50% chance that if the ship lists to one side or the other we won't be trapped like that Poseidon Adventure movie. And being near the front really a few steps away from those hidden decks, I figure if we have our life jackets I like our chances to initially escape. I would think there would be a lot of floating debris around that we could also latch onto. I share the OP's concerns about Gopher and Isaac keeping the masses under control if disaster was to strike.

[curious_st]

I think it is quite a leap to assume that since they supposedly screwed up selling concert merchandise that they will be incompetent in an emergency situation. Emergency procedures are regulated by the US coast guard. Everyone must pass a test. The captain oversees emergency drills. Quite a difference from selling tee shirts or a que in the showroom. I don't think your point is valid. I think you are mad.

 

I am not mad. And, the debarkation and shore excursion procedures are much more unsettling to me than anything to do with a concert. I just feel that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. The crew demonstrated behavior that showed disorganization and lack of communication, even when it came to routine tasks.

 

You mention muster. Muster is a joke. Seriously. I am sad to say it, but it's true. At muster, one of the crew members was encouraging the people in my station to drink their drinks as fast as they could, because the outside pool decks (you know, the decks that pretty much always stay wet if the pool is in use or its raining) are "too slippery when wet" and they need to hurry and get rid of all liquids quickly. This included encouraging those that were already sloppy drunk to bottoms up. Also, the lady demonstrating the life jacket clasps and light/whistle had her back turned to the majority of the people at the muster station while she demonstrated. I know how to work it, but I'm not sure if everyone there does.

 

On my cruise a year ago, the actual safety information was mumbled through indiscernibly in about 5 minutes time. However, they very clearly enunciated every single word for the 15 minute commercial trying to sell passengers drink passages, massages, and steak dinners. It was very evident that they cared more about their commercial than the muster.

 

And, quite honestly, the majority of passengers paid no attention at either of these muster drills. So, I would thoroughly expect passengers to be completely lost as to what to do in a true emergency.

[curious_st]

We have had similar experiences. Add to that the passengers who refuse to listen at muster and it's a recipe for disaster. My husband and I just make sure we are as prepared as we can be and we try to stick to the smaller ships. I have often caught myself thinking if disaster struck ala Concordia it would mayhem.

 

I watched the Costa Concordia special on TV where they interviewed passengers, and I have a hard time envisioning that any cruise ship crew would do any better. So, every time the crew sends passengers in circles, I just think about the Costa Concordia crew members telling their passengers to leave their muster stations and lifeboats and go back to their cabin and wait for announcements.

[curious_st]

Not to flame.

 

I appreciate your assessment of issues that you encountered on your recent trip but it is your conclusion that to me seems to be a reach.

 

What I am saying is that if I were to experience the same situations as you had, I wouldn't give it a second thought. I guess you have. Now are you asking a question looking for reassurance that your determination may be unfair (certainly for the whole cruise line) or are you convinced that something tragic is inevitable and you are trying to convince people like myself who have a trip booked to call Carnival and cancel?

 

If the former, I sincerely believe that the crew in almost all situations will be able to manage a crisis better than you are anticipating. Don't forget that in all organizations there are individuals who won't live up to expectations but your assessment makes an evaluation of thousands of people based on your perception of a handful.

 

If the latter, then as I said, I appreciate your opinion and I would agree that you should never cruise with Carnival again, but I can't imagine too many other people acting on it.

 

 

Good luck

 

I am not trying to dissuade anyone from booking anything. I am just curious if anyone finds the pattern of disorganization and poor/bad communication discouraging. From a statistical standpoint, none of us should ever have to worry about a cruise ship emergency evacuation. Most likely, your weak link in vacation safety will be in your commute to port anyways. But, I certainly would never try to persuade you to avoid all trains, planes, or automobiles, either.

[curious_st]

In a true life and death emergency, I figure it's each man for himself. I will try to locate my family so we could stick together and then make the decision to do what we had to do. If it was true survival it would be at all costs. Sorry to all of you reading this but I would not give a flying leap about anyone else but my family. And this is one of the reasons I like to book an upper deck, such as 11 or 12, towards the front. I figure if there's true emergency, it is going to be associated with the engine room or fuel storage. I want to be as far away as I can. And having a balcony room gives me at least a 50% chance that if the ship lists to one side or the other we won't be trapped like that Poseidon Adventure movie. And being near the front really a few steps away from those hidden decks, I figure if we have our life jackets I like our chances to initially escape. I would think there would be a lot of floating debris around that we could also latch onto. I share the OP's concerns about Gopher and Isaac keeping the masses under control if disaster was to strike.

 

Although I am not quite as extreme as you, I do feel that the Costa Concordia has proven it was every man for himself and his family. I think part of the issue was that many of the crew were following protocol and waiting on instructions from the bridge, while the officers were getting the heck out of dodge on the first lifeboat to hit water.

[Tapi]

All crew members have one thing in common, and that is that they are trained and tested on emergency procedures, which have become much more stringent after the Concordia accident. However, different crew members serve in different capacities and not all of them are familiar or are cross trained on every single procedure or duty onboard. For all you know, you may be asking a busboy about information concerning shore excursions. His knowledge about that is going to be very limited at best. I know that the confusion may make you question the crew's ability to respond in case of an emergency, but IMHO, it's an unfounded concern.

 

I'll give you another example. I'm an Airline Pilot. You can rest assured that I know all of my emergency procedures, and I have the expertise to get you to your destination safely. However, more than once, I've been asked at the gate by a passenger to change their seat assignment or to check their status in the upgrade list. I'm not trained or authorized to do either one. When I informs passengers about it, some understand, but some act as if I'm being incompetent and lazy. Many don't even realize that I'm the pilot and not the gate agent. I wouldn't be surprised if what you encountered could've been a situation along the same lines.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Tapi

[Elaine5715]

I think you are comparing apples and oranges. In the situations you are describing, the crew is trying to manage passengers without being bossy and offending the delicate sensibilities of many of the guests. In an emergency, they will issue orders. They would also be getting strong directives from officers who won't be inclined to coddle guests.

[mzloolue]

Unfortunately, I have noticed that although Carnival gives a good boat ride for the money they have difficulty dealing with unscheduled happenings.

 

I expect that if there was an abandon ship that it would be chaotic.

 

And if I feel there is anything odd going on I am not going below decks.

[USNUZULOOSE]

The way I see it, all crews can be so different on each ship. It is hard to say how they react until the issues arise. All I can do is beware of the muster drill, and pay attention. Learn where my station is. And someone in my life will truly instruct me what I need to do and not panic.

[Nic6318]

I am not trying to dissuade anyone from booking anything. I am just curious if anyone finds the pattern of disorganization and poor/bad communication discouraging. From a statistical standpoint, none of us should ever have to worry about a cruise ship emergency evacuation. Most likely, your weak link in vacation safety will be in your commute to port anyways. But, I certainly would never try to persuade you to avoid all trains, planes, or automobiles, either.

 

 

 

Of course any organization that displayed signs of disorganization with poor or bad communication would be discouraging but to make the leap of logic where you are questioning their ability to handle an emergency situation is what I feel is unreasonable.

 

Also you have posted this specifically on the Carnival thread, so are you suggesting that other cruise lines are more capable of handling an emergency. As you alluded to, you are more likely to be involved in a mishap traveling to the cruise than on the ship.

 

So my questions still stand, what are you trying to get at? If you are not willing to accept the possibility that myself or Elaine 5715 may be correct in our assessment and you feel your conclusions are more likely, then I can't imagine how you could ever cruise again with your family.

[Jana60]

I do think we're pretty safe when it comes to emergencies because they are drilled over and over about those procedures however you should keep in mind many of the staff you meet on the cruise ship have been there for as short of a period of time as you have as new crew members are starting every cruise.

Edited October 23, 2015 by Jana60

[thinfool]

Your points are well take but I think it is unfair to post it in a way that focus' on Carnival.

 

The situation that you describe, indeed that you comment on in a subsequent post, regularly happens on RCI, NCL, HAL, X, etc. etc.

 

I don't have an answer to any of the problems described, but to comment on how pervasive and relatively common they are I can answer in one word...

 

Titanic.

 

(and that problem started at the top with the captain)

[loxley]

Op, I understand exactly what you are saying and I agree with you. If they handle situations routine situations that they do every week, how are they going to get it together if and when a true emergency comes up and they are dealing with a panic situation. Both fit themselves and fit the pax they are supposed to be directing.

 

I also agree with the muster drill. Have NEVER learned one useful thing EVER. I still say, I have never learned anything from the airline safety briefing thing either and it really ticks me off when they do the seat belt bucketing. If you don't know that, you should not be allowed out by yourself.

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[curious_st]

All crew members have one thing in common, and that is that they are trained and tested on emergency procedures, which have become much more stringent after the Concordia accident. However, different crew members serve in different capacities and not all of them are familiar or are cross trained on every single procedure or duty onboard. For all you know, you may be asking a busboy about information concerning shore excursions. His knowledge about that is going to be very limited at best. I know that the confusion may make you question the crew's ability to respond in case of an emergency, but IMHO, it's an unfounded concern.

 

I'll give you another example. I'm an Airline Pilot. You can rest assured that I know all of my emergency procedures, and I have the expertise to get you to your destination safely. However, more than once, I've been asked at the gate by a passenger to change their seat assignment or to check their status in the upgrade list. I'm not trained or authorized to do either one. When I informs passengers about it, some understand, but some act as if I'm being incompetent and lazy. Many don't even realize that I'm the pilot and not the gate agent. I wouldn't be surprised if what you encountered could've been a situation along the same lines.

 

 

I work for a fairly large organization, so I totally understand what you are saying about asking the wrong individual for help. But, I assure you that this was not the situation. On the port day, person A was working on deck 4 directing passengers downstairs to the tender. We asked person A where to go, and he looked at the shore excursion ticket and told us to go to the meeting area listed, which was the theater. Person B came in. The theater, and commented that he had already cleared everyone out and sent them to the the area on deck 4 where I spoke to person A. When I told person B that we already to spoke to person A, he just told us to take the tender and wander around until we find our group on our own. It was obvious that no one had communicated to person A that passengers are to no longer report to the theater to meet for shore excursions. While this isn't a big deal on its own, when you consider that this happens once every 9 days, you have to think about why person A doesn't know better, why person B hasn't insisted on someone letting person A know when this decision is made, and why don't they have a better system with walkie talkies or a coordinator in place.

 

And, one of the saddest examples is from my cruise a year ago on Liberty. The cruise director was making the debarking announcements. He announced one set of instructions m and within 2 minutes was telling passengers in person to go the opposite direction. He nearly caused a mob, and then was promptly cursed by a group of self assist passengers that he had sent around 2 different decks carrying all of their luggage. Hopefully, their emergency exercises include taking the microphone and announcement system out of his hands and throwing him I a lifeboat.

Edited October 24, 2015 by curious_st

[curious_st]

Of course any organization that displayed signs of disorganization with poor or bad communication would be discouraging but to make the leap of logic where you are questioning their ability to handle an emergency situation is what I feel is unreasonable.

 

Also you have posted this specifically on the Carnival thread, so are you suggesting that other cruise lines are more capable of handling an emergency. As you alluded to, you are more likely to be involved in a mishap traveling to the cruise than on the ship.

 

So my questions still stand, what are you trying to get at? If you are not willing to accept the possibility that myself or Elaine 5715 may be correct in our assessment and you feel your conclusions are more likely, then I can't imagine how you could ever cruise again with your family.

 

I have only sailed Carnival, but I would say that any cruise ship on any cruise line could turn into chaos in an emergency. I, however, have only firsthand experience with disorganization and communication breakdowns on Carnival.

 

In my post that you quoted, I allude to the fact that cruise ships are safer than other modes of transportation. I am certainly not going to stop driving due to the possibility of a crash. I will, however, take the steps that I can to ensure my safety as much as possible. The same goes for me on future sailings. I assess risk, but I do not live in fear. Nor, am I crippled by the fear of things that are statistically unlikely.

 

I am only trying to see if others have come to the same conclusion that passengers are in. A world of hurt in an emergency. The responses on this thread show that some have also come to this conclusion due to either similar or different reasons. I sincerely hope a Concordia like emergency never occurs again, so that none of us ever have to find out.

[OCruisers]

Interesting thread.

 

Not so sure how I'd feel about being on a Carnival ship in a major emergency ... but a major emergency on any cruise line would be scary.

[curious_st]

Your points are well take but I think it is unfair to post it in a way that focus' on Carnival.

 

The situation that you describe, indeed that you comment on in a subsequent post, regularly happens on RCI, NCL, HAL, X, etc. etc.

 

I don't have an answer to any of the problems described, but to comment on how pervasive and relatively common they are I can answer in one word...

 

Titanic.

 

(and that problem started at the top with the captain)

 

I have only sailed Carnival, so I have only observed these things on Carnival. If other lines have the same disorganization and breakdowns of communication, then my comments apply to those lines also. And, even if the other lines are more organized, that might all break down in the midst of survival instincts and widespread panic.

 

Maybe it is unfair to post on Carnival's board, but I have observed the same issues on all 3 Carnival sailings. That is my point of reference. And, I have heard many comparisons to Carnival's lax muster drill procedures versus other lines that at least bother to do a roll call or swipe passenger cards. I am quite interested in hearing how other lines compare with their safety procedures and the general flow of routine activities.

[elliair]

I don't trust security on any ship. I don't think they're qualified to take certain conditions under control like riots and fighting. I saw one youtube video of a skinny little woman in a bikini drunk, who practically drowned a security officer. She was like a wet slippery seal sliding out of their reach. She jumped on the back of one of them and held him under! So, no, I don't trust the crew in situations like that. Maybe in the loss of engine power or a fire, they know what to do.

[curious_st]

Op, I understand exactly what you are saying and I agree with you. If they handle situations routine situations that they do every week, how are they going to get it together if and when a true emergency comes up and they are dealing with a panic situation. Both fit themselves and fit the pax they are supposed to be directing.

 

I also agree with the muster drill. Have NEVER learned one useful thing EVER. I still say, I have never learned anything from the airline safety briefing thing either and it really ticks me off when they do the seat belt bucketing. If you don't know that, you should not be allowed out by yourself.

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

I should feel really blessed then. I actually learned one thing from the airline safety briefing the first time I flew: the location of the barf bag. Ha ha! Luckily, I haven't needed that barf bag, yet. But, I might some day.

[NHNEV2003]

To answer the question in your heading---

 

I trust them.