18% Gratuities Concern

[LMaxwell]

I have asked about tip distribution in restaurants. I do so because in some cases I will leave cash for staff as some owners take a cut of cc tips. I have also asked about splits between front and back of house when I especially want to complement the kitchen.

 

But then I view tips as optional amounts that the payer elects to give in recognition of superior service. "Gratuities" on cruise ships are not tips, they are service charges.

 

Yes, there is a restaurant owner / frequent casino suite cruiser on here who proudly admits to taking the maximum allowable from credit card tips. Their defense? That the employees like this. I'm sure the employees were given a vote...

 

I tip in cash at restaurants. The tip is for services provided to me, it's not for management to do with as they please. If the server has a tip out arrangement with other staff, that's fine.

Edited February 1, 2016 by LMaxwell

[SuiteCruiser]

I don't care what the breakdown is as long as 100% is going to the staff.

Same thing at a restaurant on land. I don't care how the employees want to break it down as long as it all go's to the employees.

 

If the owner of the restaurant or the corporation is taking a cut of a gratuity then I no longer feel it is correct to call it a gratuity.

 

A lot of the analogies in this thread are way off.

 

It doesn't. It goes into NCL's coffers and they do whatever they want with it. Perhaps they're paying their staff with it? Who knows? There was a letter posted on here from an HD who stated that the specialty staff are paid out of the DSC. The waiters and bartenders according to a source who I would trust with my life are now on flat fee salaries, and are not getting the 18%. This has also been reported by others on here. Those crew that are satisfied are staying and those who aren't are looking elsewhere.

 

It's no wonder that the HD didn't want to discuss it. It is what it is, most people don't care, they pay their 18% and go to sleep with a clear mind knowing they've done what they've been asked to do. Others bring singles to tip extra for good service.

Edited February 1, 2016 by SuiteCruiser

[SuiteCruiser]

Yes, there is a restaurant owner / frequent casino suite cruiser on here who proudly admits to taking the maximum allowable from credit card tips. Their defense? That the employees like this. I'm sure the employees were given a vote...

 

I tip in cash at restaurants. The tip is for services provided to me, it's not for management to do with as they please. If the server has a tip out arrangement with other staff, that's fine.

 

I remember that, made me ill to think of it. Our province has just introduced legislation stopping "the house" from taking any of the employees tips.

Edited February 1, 2016 by SuiteCruiser

[nomad098]

I was wondering why when booking in UK gratuities where included with the promo and in the US it's not

 

Until I stumbled across some interesting information on the UK gov website.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/430329/E24_2015_v1_0.pdf

 

If a gratuity is discretionary the UK taxman would only be interested if it was paid to a person subject to UK tax laws

 

If a gratuity is compulsory it is no longer a gratuity but a service charge and NCL UK would be liable for all tax no matter what the arrangements are for sharing it out

 

By including the service charge with the promo NCL UK do not have to factor in any tax to the tax man as it's a give away and can probably use it as a tax write off to cover those that purchase a package :eek:

 

Of course this is all speculation only NCL know the truth.

 

Before anyone from over the pond starts jumping up and down remember that all bookings made though NCL UK are subject to UK law and regulations

[luddite]

We arrived home from 14 day Breakaway cruise yesterday and had attended the Q&A with the officers, the captain, hotel director and engineer attended.

 

Someone asked in the audience how the DSC was divided up and the reply from hotel director was correct.

 

Then someone asked about how the new 18% gratuity was divided up and the hotel director would not divulge the info and after a couple of attempts at pushing for the info his reply was that the info doesn't have to be divulged and that NCL is a publicly traded company and has to answer to its shareholders.

 

I personally find this a quite shady reply especially after he answered about the DSC. This to me explains why when you ask staff which we did a few times on the cruise that they say know nothing about it, so I don't feel that it's a situation of the staff giving that reply in order to get more tips.

I would like others to pursue this question with officers as well when sailing.

 

What new 18% gratuity were you asking about?

[luddite]

And.......why the concern?

[sjbdtz]

I don't care what the breakdown is as long as 100% is going to the staff.

Same thing at a restaurant on land. I don't care how the employees want to break it down as long as it all go's to the employees.

 

If the owner of the restaurant or the corporation is taking a cut of a gratuity then I no longer feel it is correct to call it a gratuity.

 

A lot of the analogies in this thread are way off.

 

 

That's why they call it a Service Charge, in the first place. Besides, maybe people will push hard enough that NCL will say fine....the crew get 100% of the 18% service charge.

 

And in exchange we're cancelling all of their benefits, and making them pay their own way home, and they'll no longer get a base salary.

 

It sounds awful.....but what if the total expense to the company is the same either way?

 

 

You are paying for the cost of the ship, the trip, the service, and the profit.

 

HOW you are paying for it, really doesn't matter in the end-game. Whether its a higher fare, or a DSC, or an 18% 'gratuity', the fact remains that the crew get paid, the ships get paid-off, and the cruise-line makes money for the shareholders.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

 

.

[sparks1093]

That's why they call it a Service Charge, in the first place. Besides, maybe people will push hard enough that NCL will say fine....the crew get 100% of the 18% service charge.

 

And in exchange we're cancelling all of their benefits, and making them pay their own way home, and they'll no longer get a base salary.

 

It sounds awful.....but what if the total expense to the company is the same either way?

 

 

You are paying for the cost of the ship, the trip, the service, and the profit.

 

HOW you are paying for it, really doesn't matter in the end-game. Whether its a higher fare, or a DSC, or an 18% 'gratuity', the fact remains that the crew get paid, the ships get paid-off, and the cruise-line makes money for the shareholders.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

 

.

 

If I leave a $20 tip for a waitress and she pockets the whole amount she gets paid. If I leave a $20 tip for a waitress and the restaurant keeps $10 of it, she still gets paid. But I have a problem with the second scenario. I think most people would.

[sail7seas]

I don't care how it is divided up.

The crew agrees to whatever is the formula and if they are okay with it, I am, also.

 

They don't ask about my income and I don't ask about theirs.

 

[sjbdtz]

If I leave a $20 tip for a waitress and she pockets the whole amount she gets paid. If I leave a $20 tip for a waitress and the restaurant keeps $10 of it, she still gets paid. But I have a problem with the second scenario. I think most people would.

 

Yes of course they would. Of course they'd never know if the restaurant cut her benefits, or stopped subsidizing her employee meals, or cut her work hours, or any number of other ways they have of ensuring they are profitable enough to exist.

 

 

But... that's not the scenario in question, so I'm not sure what the relevance is.

 

 

If you pay the DSC, and the other service charges, and you tip $20 to your waitress, she certainly gets to keep it.

 

 

 

.

[kdzkatz]

My issue is the deception by NCL implying it is a gratuity which common sense would dictate is towards the direct service you get from the staff not covered by the DSC. My gripe is the use of the term 'gratuity' when in fact it is a charge or a fee.

 

We are far from impressed with the changes the have been going on since Del Rio took over. We have enjoyed NCL but we will certainly be exploring other options to cruise with. If we find a better situation we are outta here and if we don't we will stay and continue to enjoy ourselves. The scumbags and clueless ones in corporate have not oozed into the actual cruise experience for us. Leading up to the cruise is like the alter ego to the cruise itself. Don't bother asking anyone at NCL anything as they don't know. That is a fact proven time and time again from my personal experience. CC is a much better source.

[NLH Arizona]

I don't care how it is divided up.

The crew agrees to whatever is the formula and if they are okay with it, I am, also.

 

They don't ask about my income and I don't ask about theirs.

 

Very well said!

[LMaxwell]

Very well said!

How do you know the crew are okay with it. You have stated repeatedly you do not care about such matters. NCL is taking their money as corporate income.

[SuiteCruiser]

That's why they call it a Service Charge, in the first place. Besides, maybe people will push hard enough that NCL will say fine....the crew get 100% of the 18% service charge.

 

And in exchange we're cancelling all of their benefits, and making them pay their own way home, and they'll no longer get a base salary.

 

It sounds awful.....but what if the total expense to the company is the same either way?

 

 

You are paying for the cost of the ship, the trip, the service, and the profit.

 

HOW you are paying for it, really doesn't matter in the end-game. Whether its a higher fare, or a DSC, or an 18% 'gratuity', the fact remains that the crew get paid, the ships get paid-off, and the cruise-line makes money for the shareholders.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

 

.

 

This is a new revenue source for NCL (I'm talking about the 18% on the UBP), so I don't buy that if the crew got it they'd slash their benefits. It's helping offset the giveaway UBP in my mind, as it's likely far more than the actual cost of the booze. The charge in the specialites is brand new and the staff are still paid by the DSC.

 

As I said, those who are content will stay, those not content but having no other options will stay and those that aren't and can find something else will leave.

 

All that said, they can claim they're paying the staff with the money, all it takes is for them to "reallocate" the funds they used to pay the staff with and use it to offset the UBP. It's all the same.

Edited February 2, 2016 by SuiteCruiser

[Rob0519]

Gratuity: noun, plural gratuities.

1.

a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.

 

If all or part of the 18% is going to the company then it can't nor should be called a gratuity and it is a deceitful move by NCL based on the social acceptance of the word. Call it an 18% service charge added for our convenience, but it the staff is not getting the "gratuity" I should have the option to refuse to pay it.

[duchesslt]

I waited and bartended through college. If anyone asked if I tipped out I had no problem transparently answering yes and to which positions.

 

Regardless, there is some NCL FAQ language about the 18% being a gratuity and a service charge. This would imply a % goes to staff and a % is being used for other staff position compensation. I gave cash tips above the amounts I signed for and to steward. I wasn't sure how to make it work for Splash Academy - there were a lot of counselors and all were awesome.

 

"What about Gratuities?

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for service that is generally rendered to all Guests. While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile,” so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them. Also, certain staff positions (e.g., concierge, butler, youth program staff and beverage service) provide service on an individual basis to only some guests and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those Guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. Additionally, there is an 18% gratuity and spa service charge added for all spa and salon services, as well as an 18% gratuity and beverage service charge added for all beverage purchases and an 18% gratuity and specialty service charge added to all specialty restaurant dining and entertainment based dining."

Edited February 2, 2016 by duchesslt

[sfaaa]

It's not in the shareholders report.

 

Why would it be? It is not a question the majority NCL shareholders would care or want to know. Nor is it a mandatory disclosure item required under securities or accounting rules. But it doesn't stop a NCL shareholder to contact investor relations and enquire about it. For outsiders, sorry, this information is privileged and NCL is under no legal obligation to disclose to OP.

[LMaxwell]

Why would it be? It is not a question the majority NCL shareholders would care or want to know. Nor is it a mandatory disclosure item required under securities or accounting rules. But it doesn't stop a NCL shareholder to contact investor relations and enquire about it. For outsiders, sorry, this information is privileged and NCL is under no legal obligation to disclose to OP.

 

One of the white knights said shareholders can view it in the report. But it's not there. Just reporting factually to counter someones bogus claim.

[luddite]

How do you know the crew are okay with it. You have stated repeatedly you do not care about such matters. NCL is taking their money as corporate income.

 

Because they haven't quit.

Cripes, how hard is THAT to figure out?

[broberts]

Because they haven't quit.

Cripes, how hard is THAT to figure out?

 

Just because ships still have staff does not mean that staff have not quit.

 

I suspect there are more people in this world working at jobs they do not like and would rather not do under terms they have difficulty accepting than otherwise.

[vicocala]

Personally I just view it as a surcharge. That said I'm glad they call it a gratuity and service charge. That keeps my conscience clean that the servers are at least getting some of it. As I grew up in a time when 10% was considered a fair tip the 18% is viewed by me as a 10% tip and an 8% service charge. But that is how I view it.

 

I agree if the employees don't like it they can find a different job. If they do like it by all means they are being treated in the way they accepted the job. If someone does something really special I will give them an additional tip, but it is my tip, not the service charge and what they do with it after I express my appreciation to them is their business.

[kneught77]

How do you know the crew are okay with it. You have stated repeatedly you do not care about such matters. NCL is taking their money as corporate income.

 

Were they drafted into working for NCL?.. No, they applied.. were hired... signed a contract.. therefore agreeing to terms including pay.

 

So they are "okay" with it in the traditional sense.

 

I don't understand.. if someone is SOOO unhappy with an aspect of their job.. why not look for something else?... working on a cruise ship (for most of the jobs) don't require a degree. People do NOT work on cruise ships to become millionaires. Its an experience.. and can help pay the bills.

 

I just don't see how this is anyone business.. but those working for the company. If something illegal was happening.. it would be dealt with ASAP.

 

Move on :eek:

Edited February 2, 2016 by kneught77

[sparks1093]

I don't care how it is divided up.

The crew agrees to whatever is the formula and if they are okay with it, I am, also.

 

They don't ask about my income and I don't ask about theirs.

 

 

I don't care how the crew divides it up either, I do care if management is keeping any of it. Big difference that people are glossing over here.

[sparks1093]

Yes of course they would. Of course they'd never know if the restaurant cut her benefits, or stopped subsidizing her employee meals, or cut her work hours, or any number of other ways they have of ensuring they are profitable enough to exist.

 

 

But... that's not the scenario in question, so I'm not sure what the relevance is.

 

 

If you pay the DSC, and the other service charges, and you tip $20 to your waitress, she certainly gets to keep it.

 

 

 

.

 

But we aren't talking about the service charge Stephen, we are talking about the 18% gratuity for the bar staff. If NCL called this a service charge also I wouldn't be part of this discussion. If it is a gratuity then 100% of it should go to the designated staff. Benefits and everything else is smoke and mirrors on your part.

[LMaxwell]

But we aren't talking about the service charge Stephen, we are talking about the 18% gratuity for the bar staff. If NCL called this a service charge also I wouldn't be part of this discussion. If it is a gratuity then 100% of it should go to the designated staff. Benefits and everything else is smoke and mirrors on your part.

 

When you get a bar receipt it says service charge / gratuity.

 

That leads me to believe it is a service charge and some part of that is put into a gratuity pool. It is careful phrasing for sure.