Princess should pay for China visa screw-up

[tothemall&beyond]

We are booked on the Sapphire Princess’ 4/25/16 Grand Asia sailing. On Thursday night, March 3rd, at just before 8:00 pm, we received an email from Princess informing us that we no longer needed to get Chinese visas for this trip.

 

Princess cited a “new” policy regarding transit travel through Shanghai as the reason. But the notification came long after most of the people on board had already spent approximately $500 per couple for these visas which Princess continually insisted that we have in order to embark the ship.

 

Also, this “new” policy is not as new as Princess portends to make it appear. It was actually publicly announced by Chinese officials in mid-December 2015, and went into effect on January 30, 2016.

 

Additionally, as early as the first week of February, people began posting threads on CC about it and trying to get Princess to revise their requirement. Princess continued to deny knowledge of the new policy and to insist that we get the visas, even after people sent written proof of the existence of the new policy. I personally called Customer Relations, and despite giving them very specific details about the change, was told we still needed to have the visas. I took them at their word that there was some reason why. We now know, of course, that there was no such reason.

 

Upon receiving the emails last Thursday, we, and the two other couples with whom we are traveling, each called Princess Customer Relations. We were all firmly and callously told that Princess management had decided to not compensate passengers in any way for the expenses we incurred in obtaining visas we did not need. Their stated reason was because” Princess did not know about it until just now”.

 

But Princess clearly bears responsibility here and owes something more than “too bad, so sad” to its passengers. Princess either knew, or should have known, about the new policy, especially once it was specifically brought to their attention, and should have acted accordingly in revising its requirements for passage. But it did not. Princess can not escape liability by denying knowledge when it was repeatedly put on notice by passengers who seemed to easily be able to ascertain that Princess could not or simply did not.

 

The facts here are as follows:

 

1) Our cruise disembarks in Shanghai.

2) Shanghai is the only port in mainland China which we will enter or exit.

3) Shanghai has long had a "72 hour visa-free transit policy”, but it applied only to travelers transiting through its two airports.

4) BUT, as of January 30, 2016, the visa exemption was extended to be for 144 hours, and would apply to ALL common carrier travel into and out of Shanghai, whether by air, cruise ship or train.

5) The formal, public announcement of the new extended policy had actually been made almost three months ago. Specifically, the formal announcement was made on December 21st, 2015, by Bai Shaokang, the deputy mayor of Shanghai, who publicly declared at a press conference that Shanghai was about to implement the 144-hour visa-free transit policy. It was further announced that the policy had been approved by the State Council and would be put into effect as of January 30th, 2016.

 

As alluded to above, for our situation, the most important change to Shanghai’s visa-free transit policy was the transit point being expanded to no longer be limited to only airports. It would now include all the major cruise ports and train stations in Shanghai, meaning that cruise ship passengers, like us, would also be able to travel visa-free through Shanghai, even on multiple methods of transport.

This was a very big change to the previous policy and it is one which completely negated the need for any of us to obtain Chinese visas for this trip, and to spend nearly $500 in doing so.

 

Moreover, it was something about which Princess, as a huge player in the travel industry, and ever- increasingly so as it continues to expand its China market, should have been fully-informed long before most of us applied for our visas.

 

Indeed, I suspect that with the new Majestic Princess being home-ported in China, someone within the Princess organization was actually actively advocating for this change, which would relax visa requirements and make cruises in China more affordable.

As a lay person without the expertise and resources that are available to a cruise line as prominent as Princess, I would not know about the changes which negated the need for the visas, but it was reasonable for me to rely on Princess to have full and current knowledge in this regard.

 

Other travel-related companies seemed to have been aware of the policy change, and acted accordingly in the best interests of their clients. For example, the website travelchinaguide.com, even published a newsletter about it on December 23, 2015. So did the website for “CNTO China Like Never Before”.

 

Why, then, did it take Princess almost three months to find out about it and change the boarding document requirements? They were actually told about it by many of us!

 

Those of us who have been adversely affected by Princess’ negligence and then total lack of concern, should join together to make our voices heard and to insist upon compensation.

 

Respectfully submitted…

[TracieABD]

Truly unfortunate. I knew the change was coming-- Back in late 2015. Princess should have known.

 

And before I get flamed- getting a Chinese visa is not like getting a visa/ entry into Brazil, Argentina, Chile. Those visa/ entry fees can be accessed and acquired easily and almost instantly. It can take weeks to get a Chinese visa, so the passengers had no choice but to apply for the visa well in advance of their travel.

 

You have to submit the application, your actual passport (must have 12 mo. left on it), and a photo. It can cost between $230 to $570 per visa, depending on how fast you need it.

 

I hate that this happened to you.

 

I guess the only bright spot-- the visa is good for 10 years.

[Steelers0854]

Just my 2 cents,

 

I think it would be a terrible idea if Princess were to send out communication advising of policy changes before they were actually implemented. Just because an official at a press conference makes an announcement does not mean it will go into effect when it was announced that it would. It would be irresponsible for Princess to inform all of their customers before it has been made official.

 

So if the actual change went into effect January 30th, an announcement was made slightly more than 30 days after the rule taking effect. Should it have been sooner, yes one could argue that. However, when you booked the cruise you had information on the cost and the process required for a China visa and made the decision to move forward with all of those factors considered.

 

I am not sure princess is responsible for the cost of the visa given they were slightly delayed in sending out a notification.

 

I can certainly see why you are upset, the cost of the visas are very high and given the change of policy close to your sail date I would be annoyed as well, I just don't see it as being princess's responsibility to reimburse the cost.

 

Again just my 2 cents.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Steelers0854

[tothemall&beyond]

Truly unfortunate. I knew the change was coming-- Back in late 2015. Princess should have known.

 

And before I get flamed- getting a Chinese visa is not like getting a visa/ entry into Brazil, Argentina, Chile. Those visa/ entry fees can be accessed and acquired easily and almost instantly. It can take weeks to get a Chinese visa, so the passengers had no choice but to apply for the visa well in advance of their travel.

 

You have to submit the application, your actual passport (must have 12 mo. left on it), and a photo. It can cost between $230 to $570 per visa, depending on how fast you need it.

 

I hate that this happened to you.

 

I guess the only bright spot-- the visa is good for 10 years.

 

Thank you for your thoughtful and empathetic response.

 

Funny you mention the flaming issue, because I meant to add a Preface to my comments telling people not to flame me with comments such as:

1) "it was our responsibility to ascertain whether or not we needed the visa" - we did ascertain, but Princess would not yield; or

2) that there's exculpatory language from the passenger contract - Princess can not use that to obviate their negligence and/or malfeasance.

 

Thanks again.

[tothemall&beyond]

Just my 2 cents,

 

I think it would be a terrible idea if Princess were to send out communication advising of policy changes before they were actually implemented. Just because an official at a press conference makes an announcement does not mean it will go into effect when it was announced that it would. It would be irresponsible for Princess to inform all of their customers before it has been made official.

 

So if the actual change went into effect January 30th, an announcement was made slightly more than 30 days after the rule taking effect. Should it have been sooner, yes one could argue that. However, when you booked the cruise you had information on the cost and the process required for a China visa and made the decision to move forward with all of those factors considered.

 

I am not sure princess is responsible for the cost of the visa given they were slightly delayed in sending out a notification.

 

I can certainly see why you are upset, the cost of the visas are very high and given the change of policy close to your sail date I would be annoyed as well, I just don't see it as being princess's responsibility to reimburse the cost.

 

Again just my 2 cents.

 

Umm, excuse me -- but when the the person giving press conference is the mayor of the city implementing it and they announce the effective date to be more than a month later, and it had been approved by the Chinese gov'ti, it shouldn't take Princess 3 months to learn of it. Certainly, the notice should have come from them by February 1st, not March 3rd! That month made a HUGE difference for most of us!

 

Yes, of course, we took the Chinese visa costs into account. Because they were necessary. But when they're not needed, it was negligent for Princess to continue to insist they were after they were given written proof that they were not!

Edited March 8, 2016 by tothemall&beyond

[TNTLAMB]

If you had not applied when you did, and the policy was implemented late or not at all, you'd be screwed pure and simp!e. You would. Be out a whole lot more money. Two months wait is incredible 3 - 4 mos close to a miracle. It's clear you and your friends have little clue as to the ins and outs of international travel.

 

It certainly isn't Princess fault. Hope your temperament improves or you are in for a tough trip unless you learn to roll. There is nothing consumer driven the instant you step off the ship and I mean nothing.

[Steelers0854]

Umm, excuse me -- but when the the person giving press conference is the mayor of the city implementing it and they announce the effective date to be more than a month later, and it had been approved by the Chinese gov'ti, it shouldn't take Princess 3 months to learn of it. Certainly, the notice should have b=come from them by February 1st, not March 3rd! That month made a HUGE difference for most of us!

 

 

There are always changes and delays in government policies. Thousands of people bought passports in the US because they were told on a specific date that their drivers licenses would no longer be valid to travel on airplanes domestically. That has never been the case and now they have sent several hundred dollars on passports that they didn't need.

 

What would have happened if they had made the announcement and the policy were reversed? What would happen if you couldn't get the required visa's in time because of the communication?

 

I completely understand your frustration and agree the communication could have come earlier.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Steelers0854

[westendgirl]

We're also victims of the China visa regulations change. We were told by Princess that we must obtain the visas or be denied boarding in Singapore. (We have travelled to China in the past and expected that.)

We were given the same party line by Princess Customer Relations when I called after their change in regulations announcement: 'The decision was made not to offer any compensation to those who had already obtained their visas.' Princess should have known about the change in regulations early on for the reasons that the OP stated. This is certainly one time that the early bird did not get the worm! I did not ask for nor expect that all our visa expenses be refunded; however, even a token onboard credit for their lack of proactiveness (is that a word?) would have been greatly appreciated.

I'm curious how the other cruise lines have handled this. We are still looking forward to an amazing cruise and hope that this is the only hiccup, but spending hundreds of dollars needlessly leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

[tothemall&beyond]

If you had not applied when you did, and the policy was implemented late or not at all, you'd be screwed pure and simp!e. You would. Be out a whole lot more money. Two months wait is incredible 3 - 4 mos close to a miracle. It's clear you and your friends have little clue as to the ins and outs of international travel.

 

It certainly isn't Princess fault. Hope your temperament improves or you are in for a tough trip unless you learn to roll. There is nothing consumer driven the instant you step off the ship and I mean nothing.

 

It actually only takes less than a week to get a Chinese visa these days if you have all your air, hotel and cruise documents in order. We had ours back in hand with 10 days of mailing our applications out. Contrary to your assertion, I have plenty knowledge of the ins and outs of international travel. And plenty of knowledge of law as well. We applied in a very timely manner - but it was after the time that Princess should have known of the change. As I stated in my OP, as I researched this, I discovered that other companies - even other cruise lines - did. That demonstrates the negligence on Princess' part.

[tothemall&beyond]

We're also victims of the China visa regulations change. We were told by Princess that we must obtain the visas or be denied boarding in Singapore. (We have travelled to China in the past and expected that.)

We were given the same party line by Princess Customer Relations when I called after their change in regulations announcement: 'The decision was made not to offer any compensation to those who had already obtained their visas.' Princess should have known about the change in regulations early on for the reasons that the OP stated. This is certainly one time that the early bird did not get the worm! I did not ask for nor expect that all our visa expenses be refunded; however, even a token onboard credit for their lack of proactiveness (is that a word?) would have been greatly appreciated.

I'm curious how the other cruise lines have handled this. We are still looking forward to an amazing cruise and hope that this is the only hiccup, but spending hundreds of dollars needlessly leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

 

 

Precisely, JB. Like you, we certainly did not expect to get $500 back, and didn't ask for that. But, as you state, some token OBC would have been appreciated. I know we will indeed have an amazing cruise and a wonderful reunion with dear friends.

[Lanwood]

Truly unfortunate. I knew the change was coming-- Back in late 2015. Princess should have known.

 

Chinese visa is not like getting a visa/ entry into Brazil, Argentina, Chile. Those visa/ entry fees.......

 

You have to submit the application, your actual passport (must have 12 mo. left on it), and a photo. It can cost between $230 to $570 per visa, depending on how fast you need it.

 

In Adelaide/Australia as we did not have a Chinese consulate in the state (we just got one this year as part of the free trade agreement) I had to actually post my passport off with the visa application to the embassy in Canberra/Australia. Didn't like doing that....

Edited March 8, 2016 by Lanwood

[tothemall&beyond]

In Adelaide/Australia as we did not have a Chinese consulate in the state (we just got one this year as part of the free trade agreement) I had to actually post my passport off with the visa application to the embassy in Canberra/Australia. Didn't like doing that....

 

Same here. We had to mail ours to Houston, TX. So relieved when we got them back safe and sound.

[Pam in CA]

Personally, I think Princess should not send out emails or information for any visa or documents and leave it up to the passenger to research and know what's required for their nationality and travel and assume 100% of the responsibility. There are too many passengers from too many counties and too many variables. No matter what Princess says or does, they're going to make mistakes. :(

[OceanPrince]

Well, I suggest to making lemonade out of lemons. Visit other parts of China. China has lots of culture/history and definitely has the best natural scenery. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard China visas are good for 10 years now. Doesn't hurt to spend some time to visit another area of China post-cruise. If not, go back another time.

Edited March 8, 2016 by OceanPrince

[pris993]

Personally, I think Princess should not send out emails or information for any visa or documents and leave it up to the passenger to research and know what's required for their nationality and travel and assume 100% of the responsibility. There are too many passengers from too many counties and too many variables. No matter what Princess says or does, they're going to make mistakes. :(

 

This has been the policy in many cruise lines for many years.

 

A few years back, we had a TA, tell us that we needed a visa for Turkey and Eqypt, for day in port visits only. I knew that was not the case, from prior experience. I contacted the consulates via email and got confirmation in writing from both that no visas were required. I took that with me to the ship. Just in case.

 

Before booking a cruise I would check in to the requirements my self. I would not rely on a TA or a cruise line.

[Pushka]

On the other hand, Countries change their minds all the time. Indonesia is like that with Australians. It makes an announcement there will be no Visas required, then a couple of months later it announces that this change wont be put into operation.

 

China is very strict about visas and the specific requirements so I am prepared to cut Princess some slack.

 

On our Cunard Cruise, I spent around $300 getting the passport to and from the Embassy interstate then we were so delayed getting into Shanghai due to fog, all the excursions I had planned were cancelled. Waste of money for me.

[cruisequeen4ever]

I can see why you'd be frustrated. Princess should have been more timely in informing its staff and in informing its passengers. At the same time, it's good they didn't jump to announce in case China changed their ruling back and suddenly left pax in a huge lurch at the last minute. That would make pax even more upset! I know it sucks that you spent all that money, but I think you're a victim of unfortunate timing. Sure, some token OBC would be a nice gesture, though.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[ar1950]

Personally, I think Princess should not send out emails or information for any visa or documents and leave it up to the passenger to research and know what's required for their nationality and travel and assume 100% of the responsibility. There are too many passengers from too many counties and too many variables. No matter what Princess says or does, they're going to make mistakes. :(

 

The interesting thing is that Princess always states this for non US and non Canadian travelers:

 

Documents You Will Need

 

Non-U.S./Non-Canadian citizens, in addition to passport requirements please verify your visa requirements for each port on your cruise by contacting the consulate of each country visited or by contacting a visa service.

 

 

In other words, you are responsible for VISA requirements if non US or non Canadian.

[caribill]

Personally, I think Princess should not send out emails or information for any visa or documents and leave it up to the passenger to research and know what's required for their nationality and travel and assume 100% of the responsibility. There are too many passengers from too many counties and too many variables. No matter what Princess says or does, they're going to make mistakes. :(

 

That is why Princess usually says its visa information only applies to USA (and maybe Canadian) citizens and all others must find out for themselves.

 

So, at least by Feb. 1, Princess should have notified passengers that the visa was no longer required, at least for USA (and maybe Canadian) citizens.

[caribill]

Before booking a cruise I would check in to the requirements my self. I would not rely on a TA or a cruise line.

 

I might not be able to rely on a TA or cruise line for accurate visa information, but I would believe a statement from Princess that says Princess will not let you board the ship in Singapore without a Chinese visa in your passport.

 

Being correct about the need for the visa means nothing if Princess because of a lack of knowledge on their part will not let you board the ship.

[Maddle]

 

Being correct about the need for the visa means nothing if Princess because of a lack of knowledge on their part will not let you board the ship.

 

Precisely. I can take matters into my own hands, but if they won't let me on the ship despite my research and printed proof, what's the point?

 

The OP DID do his own research, and argued the point with Princess...and up until today, Princess promised to refuse him at embarkation.

[westendgirl]

I might not be able to rely on a TA or cruise line for accurate visa information, but I would believe a statement from Princess that says Princess will not let you board the ship in Singapore without a Chinese visa in your passport.

 

Being correct about the need for the visa means nothing if Princess because of a lack of knowledge on their part will not let you board the ship.

 

Precisely, Caribill. Well stated!

[CI66774]

OP - I feel for your situation. I've had to obtain a Chinese Visa, etc. and it was a pain. That being said, no, I don't think Princess should be reimbursing anyone. It's the pax's responsibility to determine whether they need a Visa, etc. As such, it's your responsibility and cost. Have a good trip.

[Cruzin-K]

OP - I feel for your situation. I've had to obtain a Chinese Visa, etc. and it was a pain. That being said, no, I don't think Princess should be reimbursing anyone. It's the pax's responsibility to determine whether they need a Visa, etc. As such, it's your responsibility and cost. Have a good trip.

 

As other posters have pointed out though, what happens when you correctly determine that you don't need a visa, show up at the ship, and Princess denies you boarding because they mistakenly think you DO need a visa? You'll stand there waving goodbye as the ship leaves without you, is what you'll do.

 

If the cruise line tells you that you need a visa and you shell out hundreds of dollars for it to avoid being left on the pier, only to have the cruise line come back later and say "whoopsie, my bad" I think it's only decent to at least offer some OBC to the passengers who are out that much money for something SOLELY the fault of the cruise line. The passengers in this case were not even remotely at fault. They tried to tell Princess about the new rule and Princess chose to ignore what they were told.

 

I'd be steaming mad and would probably never sail Princess again if this had happened to me. Princess' attitude towards the situation is deplorable.

[Todd320]

As other posters have pointed out though, what happens when you correctly determine that you don't need a visa, show up at the ship, and Princess denies you boarding because they mistakenly think you DO need a visa? You'll stand there waving goodbye as the ship leaves without you, is what you'll do.

 

If the cruise line tells you that you need a visa and you shell out hundreds of dollars for it to avoid being left on the pier, only to have the cruise line come back later and say "whoopsie, my bad" I think it's only decent to at least offer some OBC to the passengers who are out that much money for something SOLELY the fault of the cruise line. The passengers in this case were not even remotely at fault. They tried to tell Princess about the new rule and Princess chose to ignore what they were told.

 

I'd be steaming mad and would probably never sail Princess again if this had happened to me. Princess' attitude towards the situation is deplorable.

 

I agree, Princess needs to take some ownership.

 

Princess wanted their cake and eat it too. They wanted to take the safest course of action for Princess in case the new visa program was pulled. Now that the visa programmed has lasted over 30 days, Princess will now go along with it.

 

However Princess should give some OBC for telling people they would not be able to board even though they told them it was not needed.