Cruise lines - any duty of care - shore excursions??

[Beanb41]

Liability lies with the cruise line as it is the cruise line which has the contract with the passenger. Any liability of the excursion operator is going to be debated in court and you can bet your sweet thing this accident is going to end up in court. It will depend upon a number of issues whether it is an Australian Court or a USA court. There are going to be a number of lawyers who are going to do very well out of this. If the victims had good travel insurance their grief is going to be reduced substantially. If any of the victims don't have travel insurance then their suffering is going to be compounded.

 

I would think that excursions going forward in Vanuatu are going to be extremely curtailed. This is a very poor country and I am sure the company involved will not have the resources to fight legal challenges and as a consequence others wont have the resources to bring their operations up to first world standard.

 

I would think that as a result of this accident many of the Pacific Island operators will be looking at their contracts with cruise lines to check that should something similar happen in their country that they have the resources and infrastructure to manage such a catastrophe and cruise lines will be doing likewise.

 

No winners here

[NSWP]

I am sure most on here have been in some pretty dodgy tour vehicles in second world and third world countries, I have been in plenty !! I can assure you that driver licensing, vehicle regulation and vehicle road worthiness are often not a priority for some of these tour operators. But at the end of the day there is limited transport infrastructure in those countries and what you see is what you get, often a 40 year old ex American school bus, or a 30 year old ex army truck or a 20 year old Japanese mini bus, with broken seats and inoperable seat belts.

 

So I think it is time the cruise companies took a long hard look at who and how they operate their tours through contracted tour operators/transport providers.

 

This type of crash has happened before and will happen again.

[happysnapper]

I just hope during all of this tragedy that someone is looking after the injured Nu Vans and their families. All the media focus appears to be on the injured P&O passengers who I am sure will be receiving first class care either in Noumea or Australia. Medical facilities for the locals over there are fairly basic in comparison to what we here in Australia are used too.

[peter.kath@hotmail.com]

There is a charitable organisation in both Port Vila and Santo called Promedical. Yesterday on their page they were asking for blood donations for Port Vila hospital.

We are off to Santo in a couple of weeks and it is very reassuring to know that they will be there if you need them. They have paramedics from Australia that volunteer their services and train the locals in first aid.

But I guess they always need more help, Maybe some of us that love visiting Vanuatu so much might be able to assist them with a donation.

 

We were in Port Vila in March and they have just had so much bad luck with Cyclone Pam and the runway issues they rely so much on the tourism dollar and this is another knock they did not need.

[Miamia65]

It is obvious that P&O have gone into damage control and hired a PR firm to assist with media statements.

 

This suggests that they are taking this seriously and expect to be responsible for any litigation.

 

Prayers to the families of the lives lost and to all injured.

 

Having used the tour operators in port Vila they are crazy drivers who speed and will not slow down even when asked.

 

This event is a tragedy and I agree with us others will have flow on effects. For my family though after out last experience with pot Vila bus drivers I would never do it again.

 

 

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[The_Big_M]

Liability lies with the cruise line as it is the cruise line which has the contract with the passenger.

 

That's only liability to the booking customer, and only if they booked the shore excursion with the cruise line. This appears to be the case, but is not definitively stated.

 

Even then, the tour operator would then be liable to the cruise line if liability ultimately lies with them. (And it wasn't e.g. the fault of the road, the other driver or something else).

 

If the passenger only booked the cruise, and then organised the excursion privately, the line would not be liable to the passenger for this. Although liability may still lie with the tour operator.

[bazzaw]

Shorex T&C's are pretty clear that the cruiseline is just an agent to the subcontractor tour provider. Don't know about the duty of care legalities if it got to court but it's very much buy at your own risk imo. End of the day it's a third world country with no road rules so while it'd be lovely if the tours provided by the cruiselines were in sleek safe coaches, it's not the reality. Cruiseline is just connecting you to local operators in each port, I think some people must be under the illusion when they book that P&O themselves will be taking them out on an excursion.

 

I would think that the legal issue is not completely clear - and would only be determined by a court?? I do know that it is not possible/permissible/legal for anybody to sign away their legal rights - hence I cannot sign a document that says that some person may murder me ! Also - those warning signs that say that you enter a property at your own risk - or similar such signs - are not worth the paper/signboard that they are written on. We all have a legal obligation to ensure that our properties are not a danger.

 

It "could" have some impact on ships shore tours - although I doubt it. This would not be the first occasion that a ships tour has ended in some kind of disaster.

[Beanb41]

I was reading the carnival T&C's the other day and this is their excerpt on shorex:

 

 

While we specialise in cruising holidays, you may choose to book other services with us such as shore tours. We can assist you in making these arrangements; however, we act only as a booking agent. The service providers are solely responsible for the information and service offered and their conditions will apply. Although our responsibility is on board the ship, where we arrange these services for you, we will assist in addressing any concerns you may have.

Any arrangements made with other service providers by or for you are your responsibility and entirely at your own risk

 

 

It'll probably have a ripple of cruiselines re-checking all their operators which is a good thing, but it was a road accident in the end, not a systemic failure or faulty equipment etc.

 

But this is just my rambling thoughts!

 

 

I wonder how an American court would accept the "booking agent" defence especially as they don't receive a "commission" based on the operators fare but charge their own fare often 200% above the operator's fare and then screw the operator as well.

[The_Big_M]

I was reading the carnival T&C's the other day and this is their excerpt on shorex:

 

 

While we specialise in cruising holidays, you may choose to book other services with us such as shore tours. We can assist you in making these arrangements; however, we act only as a booking agent. The service providers are solely responsible for the information and service offered and their conditions will apply. Although our responsibility is on board the ship, where we arrange these services for you, we will assist in addressing any concerns you may have.

Any arrangements made with other service providers by or for you are your responsibility and entirely at your own risk

 

 

I think that's not about removing liability - certainly P&O haven't just left it up to the operator in this case (and are under the same parent as Carnival AU), as much as clarifying that they don't control the 3rd party, so aren't the final arbiters of a dispute or other service issue. They only mention "risk" in respect of 3rd parties where they are not involved, whereas they highlight "information" and "service" as directly controlled by the operator, which is correct.

 

Note that "acting only as a booking agent" doesn't mean there is no contract between you and them.

[ReneeFLL]

What purpose do you want to know this information? Are you using this forum as research bait?

This person simply has questions. What difference does it make why they are asking them? :rolleyes:

[MicCanberra]

Precedents have been set with a plethora of threads that seem to be along the same vein.

[mr walker]

This person simply has questions. What difference does it make why they are asking them? :rolleyes:

 

Precedents have been set with a plethora of threads that seem to be along the same vein.

 

Yes, the bush lawyer rarely misses any chance when possible bad news is afloat!

[MicCanberra]

Yes, the bush lawyer rarely misses any chance when possible bad news is afloat!

 

So you noticed as well. Seems very condemning (of some aspects) well before experiencing them for himself.

[Brisbane41]

In light of the tragic events in Vanuatu (bus crash on cruise-line shore excursion, many seriously injured - see separate link) - what has been your experience re safety when taking tours in places with limited local infrastructure ? (e.g. South Pacific etc?)

 

What do you think should be the level of responsibility taken by the cruise line (through their agents) providing excursions?

 

As a minimum, do you think that the cruise line should satisfy itself (or get the undertaking to this effect from the co-ordinating agents) that the buses are safe (no bold tires, mechanically sound) and that tour buses drivers have the appropriate skills and responsibility to drive them (no dangerous speeding etc) ??

 

If the cruise lines get reports or information suggesting a operator they contract or send passengers to is unsafe then they have a duty of care to pass that information on.

 

They cant be held responsible for accidents of tour operators that they use unless many passengers report back over periods that the operators are unsafe.

 

There should be absolutely no responsibility for anything out of their control like trains, buses and taxis that have no affiliation with the cruise line.

[Beanb41]

If the cruise lines get reports or information suggesting a operator they contract or send passengers to is unsafe then they have a duty of care to pass that information on.

 

They cant be held responsible for accidents of tour operators that they use unless many passengers report back over periods that the operators are unsafe.

There should be absolutely no responsibility for anything out of their control like trains, buses and taxis that have no affiliation with the cruise line.

 

It is the responsibility of the Cruise line to ensure that their sub contractors are up to the required standard not the responsibility of passengers to report back. If a contracted third party stuffs up it is beholding on both the third party and the cruise line to resolve the issue. If the cruise line had no obligation why do they often refund excursion costs if something goes awry with shore excursions.