What is new/different on HAL from several years ago???

[Tom O.]

for your input and knowledge!...we were last on in '13 or so??? Sorry...don't keep very good track like most of you!!! :cool: So the HH price is a change...and the lack of BYO wine as well....I had a friend who we sailed with on the Oosterdam out of SD who took an entire case of wine on board...sorry to hear about that change...especially sailing from our home port!!!

 

Tea still sounds good...and the extra "up" charge is interesting in the restaurants...seeing that more on other lines as well...as to the up charge on room service items...have never been a big room service fan (why?...not sure???) so that won't change for us!!

 

Guess the limit on wine will be the big change for us!!! Boo Hoo!!!! :) LuAnn

 

The old days of bringing cases of wine and beer are gone, I believe for all cruise lines. To be honest, I don't know why they ever allowed it in the first place, selling alcohol being such an important part of their business.

 

I am not sure cabanas were around the last time you sailed HAL. If you are not familiar with them there is a long thread about them here:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2417075

[donaldsc]

The service in the anytime dining room is awful. Food choices are not as good in the MDR. The food choices in the Lido are virtually non-existent. The lines in the Lido are very long because you can not select items yourself but they have to give them to you. There are very limited no-sugar-added dessert choice in either the Lido or the MDR. You have a choice of maybe 4 or 5 pre-made sandwiches in the Lido all made w soft doughy bread.

 

They have a contract with the Lincoln Center for them to supply musical groups which is good.

 

We just did our 4th cruise on HAL. It may be our last.

 

DON

Edited November 28, 2016 by donaldsc

[Tom O.]

The service in the anytime dining room is awful. Food choices are not as good in the MDR. T

DON

 

I am not sure what you mean. Anytime dining takes place in the MDR. The menu is the same whether you have anytime or traditional dining.

[OlsSalt]

The service in the anytime dining room is awful. Food choices are not as good in the MDR. The food choices in the Lido are virtually non-existent. The lines in the Lido are very long because you can not select items yourself but they have to give them to you. There are very limited no-sugar-added dessert choice in either the Lido or the MDR. You have a choice of maybe 4 or 5 pre-made sandwiches in the Lido all made w soft doughy bread.

 

They have a contract with the Lincoln Center for them to supply musical groups which is good.

 

We just did our 4th cruise on HAL. It may be our last.

 

DON

 

Huh? I know it is not cricket to "deny" someone else's experience, but this simply was not our own experience having gotten off a 28 day cruise just this month. (Veendam). I am sorry you had such a different experience. Which ship were you on.

 

Particularly the pre-made sandwiches which always offered a variety of different breads and fillings. We thought they were delicious an the breads were a very strong part of their tasty appeal.

 

No lines in the Lido outside of the directly peak times, and plenty of choices for dinner. While we never do any-time dining, this is a surprise to learn they get a different menu than the fixed dining menu. How so?

 

Sanitation requirements have shifted much of the self-serve to now staff-served. For a good cause, so one simply rolls with this change. Makes a Code Red less stressful too, since much has now been converted to staff-serve anyway.

 

I don't pick the no-sugar options since I don't like artificial sugars, but i looked with envy at many of them. Sometimes I thought they had the best choices of all.

[Sailingpeace]

Something must have change about documents. I use a very nice leather looking folder/pouch with Holland logo imbossed to carry travel documents. It is the size of a big envelope. Very elegant and mostly very practical. My mom passed it on to me.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Sailingpeace

[kazu]

>snip<The service in the anytime dining room is awful. Food choices are not as good in the MDR.

 

They have a contract with the Lincoln Center for them to supply musical groups which is good.

 

We just did our 4th cruise on HAL. It may be our last.

 

DON

 

Huh???:confused::confused: any time dining is in the MDR. The food choices are the same as for fixed dining. I've been impressed with the MDR service in the last few cruises :)

 

>snip<

 

Particularly the pre-made sandwiches which always offered a variety of different breads and fillings. We thought they were delicious an the breads were a very strong part of their tasty appeal.

 

 

And here we can agree to disagree. I HATE the premade sandwiches. They have concoctions or breads I canoot eat. I far prefer the made to order sandwiches and hate to waste food as I tear my sandwich apart, recreate it on a bun I can eat and throw the rest out.

 

It's all subjective of course, but some of us cannot eat some of those breads even if we like them and there is more bun than content. JMHO ;)

[LuAnn]

The old days of bringing cases of wine and beer are gone, I believe for all cruise lines. To be honest, I don't know why they ever allowed it in the first place, selling alcohol being such an important part of their business.

 

I am not sure cabanas were around the last time you sailed HAL. If you are not familiar with them there is a long thread about them here:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2417075

 

I don't think the cabanas were around...and TBH...as both of us are skin cancer survivors I don't think we can or will take advantage of them...but they do provide shade, right?...so that might work in the HI waters?

 

Re the unlimited wine/alcohol aspect....AZ and O both allow "unlimited" amounts of both brought on board..."within reason" of course...what ever that is...we have brought a case of wine on board O in the recent past...never "hard liquor"...but that is allowed as well. If you are doing a T/A or a T/P that is a nice aspect to have...and for this holiday cruise we booked out of our home port...would have been nice to have...oh well...we will survive!!!...but as 3 star Mariners the "benies" we get are far less than as "Elite Plus" on X...just the game we all have to play with the reward programs I guess!!! (I'm referring to the X "elite" HH ...from 5 to 7 with coupons or unlimited drinks....)...not offered I guess on HAL at any level??? LuAnn

Edited November 29, 2016 by LuAnn

[OlsSalt]

As incidents of cruise industry "man over boards" increased, I suspect that too was part of limiting the personal in cabin use of "cases of wine" as well.

 

Controlling at least the delivery method of alcohol, if not necessarily the actual personal consumption amount, might have become part of the industry's risk management requirements.

[cruisemom42]

I am not sure what you mean. Anytime dining takes place in the MDR. The menu is the same whether you have anytime or traditional dining.

 

Don tends to write with brevity. ;) I suspect what he meant was to comment on two separate things: 1) Anytime dining service is awful, and 2) Food choices are not as good (as they used to be) in the MDR -- since the OP is asking what has changed over past couple of years.

[Sequim88]

Very interesting thread since, as can be seen in our cruise history, we've been away from HAL for 15 years. I'm sure we will see some differences (if we can remember things well enough) from last time. Definitely hoping the Dutch split pea soup will still be served on deck. Something about a nice hot bowl of soup out on the Promenade on a cool Alaska day just clicks. Even with the Gala night change we will dress up since hauling the clothes for it 20 miles to the pier is no big deal.

 

In the Lido the "served" items will probably still work for us since one big difference on HAL from RCCL was staff to assist my one-armed wife carry items to the table. RCCL staff helped but HAL people were instantly at her side.

 

It will be 1st time with any sort of Mariner status so not sure of changes in that. Even though it was 1st HAL cruise we had an invitation to a Mariner reception in our cabin (:confused:) so went so we'll maybe see if that is different.

 

From what we can remember we have always thought HAL a notch above RCCL even though we have been very pleased with RCCL so looking forward to maybe making HAL our "main line" out of Seattle or sometimes Vancouver if they still have the edge.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Sequim88
tpyo

[LuAnn]

As incidents of cruise industry "man over boards" increased, I suspect that too was part of limiting the personal in cabin use of "cases of wine" as well.

 

Controlling at least the delivery method of alcohol, if not necessarily the actual personal consumption amount, might have become part of the industry's risk management requirements.

 

but I can assure you that neither on O, AZ or HAL no one ever...in my experience at least... became a "man over board"...but I see your point!! :cool: LuAnn

Edited December 1, 2016 by LuAnn

[Shippy]

I am not saying judging the quality or taste....just the offerings.

It has been about 10 years since we cruised on Holland.

We were on the Westerdam last month.

I do not know how to describe the menu other than to say it was a bit 'yuppieish' for our liking.

We are older & prefer our food a bit simpler. I wound up ordering most nights off the everyday & even the kids menu.

One couple at our table stopped showing up & said they preferred the offering in the buffet to the main dining room menu. I must say that I checked the offerings & agreed but my husband insists on a sit down dinner.

To bad they could not offer some of the same.

[ellieanne]

I am not saying judging the quality or taste....just the offerings.

It has been about 10 years since we cruised on Holland.

We were on the Westerdam last month.

I do not know how to describe the menu other than to say it was a bit 'yuppieish' for our liking.

We are older & prefer our food a bit simpler. I wound up ordering most nights off the everyday & even the kids menu.

One couple at our table stopped showing up & said they preferred the offering in the buffet to the main dining room menu. I must say that I checked the offerings & agreed but my husband insists on a sit down dinner.

To bad they could not offer some of the same.

 

I was on the Zuiderdam in October and found the menus in the Lido to be nearly identical to the menus in the Main Dining Room. The only difference was the sides were separate and you could mix & match easier.

[Mekka]

Holland America has really gone downhill in the last few years. It's a shell of its old self. They ask the crew to clean more rooms, wait on more tables, serve more drinks, etc. They do their best, but it's a losing battle. The food has deteriorated badly. The service is strained to the limit. They eliminate every activity that doesn't turn a profit. What a shame for a fine old line.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Holland America has really gone downhill in the last few years. It's a shell of its old self. They ask the crew to clean more rooms, wait on more tables, serve more drinks, etc. They do their best, but it's a losing battle. The food has deteriorated badly. The service is strained to the limit. They eliminate every activity that doesn't turn a profit. What a shame for a fine old line.

 

The same can be said for all the mainstream cruise lines sadly :( Just take a look at the message boards for Princess, Celebrity, Royal, NCL and Carnival. Similar comments all around. Cutbacks in food budgets and staff reductions are the norm. Anything that does not generate cash flow is being cut across most lines. This is the era of mass market corporate cruise lines. Most consumers are not willing to pay the actual cost to provide the quality of experience that we had 20 years ago.

[navybankerteacher]

Probably the biggest change is the overall drop in quality due to continued cost cutting. It shows up in nearly every aspect of HAL. We are 5 star Mariners and avoid HAL unless there are special circumstances. One Food and Beverage Manager told me that his budget has been frozen or cut every year for 5 years, despite dramatic rises in food costs. He has no choice but to use worse cuts of meat, cheaper fish varieties and lower quality food. It's a shame, as HAL food used to be pretty decent. Excursions are in very large and crowded groups. Nearly every activity is a "nickel and dime" proposition. Take a look at the Koningsdam reviews. They are terrible for a new ship, and almost all the criticism can be traced to the fact that it is too big and crowded. This is the future of HAL and it saddens me to see this decline.

 

Yes- what used to be a quality, all-inclusive experience has devolved into a bare-bones minimum, with extra charges for all the small touches which used to make HAL special. They have run the brand into the ground with their efforts to be all things to economy-minded cruisers.

 

They have held down costs, which makes cruising more frequently possible -- but by doing so, they have reduced the reason for wanting to do so.

[shipgeeks]

We found just the opposite on our Nieuw Amsterdam cruise last month. The food was the best we've had in years, especially the meats. I know that much depends on the chef at any time, but we enjoyed it all so much that HAL has just become our new favorite line, replacing X. We had been away from HAL for ten years; we had absolutely no feeling of cutbacks.

[donaldsc]

I am not sure what you mean. Anytime dining takes place in the MDR. The menu is the same whether you have anytime or traditional dining.

 

My mistake on that one. Sorry. I meant to say that food choices in dining room were not good. Also, food choices in the Lido were awful. On prior cruises and on cruises on other lines, the choices in the buffet were essentially the same as in the served dining room and sometimes even better. The choices in the Lido on our recent HAL cruise were very limited.

 

DON

[navybankerteacher]

We found just the opposite on our Nieuw Amsterdam cruise last month. The food was the best we've had in years, especially the meats. I know that much depends on the chef at any time, but we enjoyed it all so much that HAL has just become our new favorite line, replacing X. We had been away from HAL for ten years; we had absolutely no feeling of cutbacks.

 

While I still see HAL as preferable to other mass market lines, there is no doubt that cutbacks have taken place. Reduced frequencyof cabin straightening, reduced room service options, reduced staffing of dining rooms, narrower selections in the Lido, no fresh OJ in the morning, obviously cheaper cuts of meat, much fewer fresh flowers, greatly reduced live music, reduced ability to bring own wine on board, the introduction of added-cost venues if top quality food and service is desired.

 

The fact is: mass market cruise lines have changed to accommodate the changes in the attitudes of mass market cruisers. When the typical cruiser does not want to spend up to two hours at dinner, with first class service and good quality food, possibly engaging in good conversation with table mates, listening to well played background music, and dressing for the occasion; preferring in stead to wear whatever he wants, be fed and out of there in 30 minutes, not have to engage in conversation with people other than his traveling mates, and - as an absolute necessity - pay as low a fare as possible - then, of course, the cruise line has to cut costs, and can only do it by cutting much of what had been unique about cruising.

[Tennessee Titan]

Unfortunately, this is another of those "bitch about everything" threads. I will caution new cruisers to HAL NOT to believe everything you read here! There is a lot of misinformation.....

[Tennessee Titan]

Yes- what used to be a quality, all-inclusive experience has devolved into a bare-bones minimum, with extra charges for all the small touches which used to make HAL special. They have run the brand into the ground with their efforts to be all things to economy-minded cruisers.

 

They have held down costs, which makes cruising more frequently possible -- but by doing so, they have reduced the reason for wanting to do so.

So go elsewhere!

[Tennessee Titan]

Probably the biggest change is the overall drop in quality due to continued cost cutting. It shows up in nearly every aspect of HAL. We are 5 star Mariners and avoid HAL unless there are special circumstances. One Food and Beverage Manager told me that his budget has been frozen or cut every year for 5 years, despite dramatic rises in food costs. He has no choice but to use worse cuts of meat, cheaper fish varieties and lower quality food. It's a shame, as HAL food used to be pretty decent. Excursions are in very large and crowded groups. Nearly every activity is a "nickel and dime" proposition. Take a look at the Koningsdam reviews. They are terrible for a new ship, and almost all the criticism can be traced to the fact that it is too big and crowded. This is the future of HAL and it saddens me to see this decline.

Deleted

Edited December 1, 2016 by Tennessee Titan

[ellieanne]

Unfortunately, this is another of those "bitch about everything" threads. I will caution new cruisers to HAL NOT to believe everything you read here! There is a lot of misinformation.....

 

I do find it interesting how so many people have such different experience, sometimes even on the same cruise! It's definitely interesting how some people find the food & selection better than before and others find it worse or more limited.

 

Since new cruisers to HAL do not have the "old" to compare it to, I think their impressions right be more unbiased than regulars, who can compare to previous cruises.

[Tennessee Titan]

Probably the biggest change is the overall drop in quality due to continued cost cutting. It shows up in nearly every aspect of HAL. We are 5 star Mariners and avoid HAL unless there are special circumstances. One Food and Beverage Manager told me that his budget has been frozen or cut every year for 5 years, despite dramatic rises in food costs. He has no choice but to use worse cuts of meat, cheaper fish varieties and lower quality food. It's a shame, as HAL food used to be pretty decent. Excursions are in very large and crowded groups. Nearly every activity is a "nickel and dime" proposition. Take a look at the Koningsdam reviews. They are terrible for a new ship, and almost all the criticism can be traced to the fact that it is too big and crowded. This is the future of HAL and it saddens me to see this decline.

 

We just got off 40 days on the Koningsdam. Found it excellent in every respect. We will sail on her again in June 2017.

 

On every cruise with 2500 or so passengers, there are about 300 who complain about something, and about 100 who complain about everything.

A lot of what you read here is posted by the 100.

I do not believe that this poster has been on the Koningsdam, but still bad mouths it!

[doublebzz]

 

The fact is: mass market cruise lines have changed to accommodate the changes in the attitudes of mass market cruisers. When the typical cruiser does not want to spend up to two hours at dinner, with first class service and good quality food, possibly engaging in good conversation with table mates, listening to well played background music, and dressing for the occasion; preferring in stead to wear whatever he wants, be fed and out of there in 30 minutes, not have to engage in conversation with people other than his traveling mates, and - as an absolute necessity - pay as low a fare as possible - then, of course, the cruise line has to cut costs, and can only do it by cutting much of what had been unique about cruising.

 

I think you have summed up the situation perfectly. I guess the alternative of enjoying a classic cruise experience that you describe is to pay a little more and switch to the more upscale lines. I cruised on Oceania for the first time in September and thoroughly enjoyed it. Next month I'm on a short Caribbean cruise on Celebrity for the first time in many years; although not an upscale line, I would like to see how it compares.