Princesss fined $40 million for pollution

[Cruise Junky]

Carnival stock just hit $52.60 today. Looks like Wall Street and investors love Carnival despite the Princess case. Don't sell too fast now or you are going to miss out on the nice dividends and shareholder OBC.

 

NCL & RCL were both up too. CCL is not alone.

[WpgCruise]

So I wonder how many that are choosing to "vote with their wallet" have also sold any position they may have had in CCL?

 

When I read the posts of some who are outraged by Princess violating environmental laws, and the resulting threats to take their business elsewhere I'm reminded of the old saying

 

"Usually when everything is said and done, there's a lot more said than done".

 

I think the actions of Princess in this case are terrible, and a $40 million dollar fine is a slap on the wrist, however there are far more egregious environmental offenders than Princess in our world.

 

Outrage on an anonymous Forum is simple, to those who are moving on, please let us know where you end up as I'd be interested in an ethical cruise line. All of the mass market lines have been caught at one time or another.

[Charles4515]

So I wonder how many that are choosing to "vote with their wallet" have also sold any position they may have had in CCL?

 

 

 

I never had any CCL stock directly. All I have are Index S&P 500 funds. I don't really care what stocks the index funds holds. As an informed consumer I am not inclined to book a cruise line with seven recent felony convictions. I don't care if you do. I don't know why some here are upset that some of us plan not to book Princess.

 

 

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Edited December 7, 2016 by Charles4515

[sfaaa]

NCL & RCL were both up too. CCL is not alone.

 

But NCL & RCC weren't fined $40M last week. Just goes to show how little outrage there is about the Princess incident other than perhaps the selected few here on CC.

Edited December 7, 2016 by sfaaa

[Cruise Junky]

But NCL & CCL weren't fined $40M last week. Just goes to show how little outrage there is about the Princess incident other than perhaps the selected few here on CC.

 

CCL is so much bigger than Princess and really $40 mil, drop in the bucket and seeing as CCL used to be worth more than RCL which is now at $81 I wouldn't be praising CCL stock too much.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Cruise Junky

[Charles4515]

But NCL & RCC weren't fined $40M last week. Just goes to show how little outrage there is about the Princess incident other than perhaps the selected few here on CC.

 

 

 

The stock market over a few days does not indicate how much outrage there is. A few large investors own most of the stock. The market may or may not react over the long run depending on whether revenue goes down.

 

You don't think there should be outrage here? That seems to be what you are indicating. I don't get why anyone would poo poo outrage at what they did. They deserve our outrage. I suspect that outrage outside of Cruise Critic is greater than what has been expressed here.

 

 

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Edited December 7, 2016 by Charles4515

[JimmyVWine]

The stock market over a few days does not indicate how much outrage there is. A few large investors own most of the stock. The market may or may not react over the long run depending on whether revenue goes down.

 

You don't think there should be outrage here? That seems to be what you are indicating. I don't get why anyone would poo poo outrage at what they did. They deserve our outrage. I suspect that outrage outside of Cruise Critic is greater than what has been expressed here.

I don't think that anyone is downplaying the legitimacy of "outrage". I think what some are questioning is whether there should be extra special outrage reserved for Princess that is not also leveled against other corporations that have pled guilty to environmental crimes and been fined $40 million or more. When people go about their workaday lives ambivalent to the crimes of other such companies, but take the time to rail against one selected company, it seems a bit odd, to put it mildly.

 

As for the level of outrage being greater outside of CC, I have to disagree (thought none of this is provable). As has been pointed out by many here, their level of outrage directed to other corporate criminals is less because they are simply unaware of those other violations, and no one can be omnipotent. And that is fair. You can't protest what you don't know. Here on CC, everyone knows about Princess' transgressions because it is unavoidable. Outside of CC, where the news articles are not shoved in your face, there is no reason to suspect that the knowledge of Princess' $40 million fine is any greater than that of WalMart's $40 million fine. Question: How many people on this Board didn't know about WalMart's $40 million fine and felony convictions until it was posted here? Well, if the general public was not aware of that, why do you think the general public is any more aware of Princess' troubles? Outside of CC, this is a page 4 news article. Here, it was a "Sticky". In the end, the outrage expressed by those outside of CC will manifest in decreased bookings and depressed stock prices. We have already seen that the latter has been unaffected. Way too soon to know about the former.

[El Crucero]

I think what some are questioning is whether there should be extra special outrage reserved for Princess that is not also leveled against other corporations that have pled guilty to environmental crimes and been fined $40 million or more.

 

I don't think there is "extra special outrage" reserved for Princess. There is "extra special outrage" at any company/corporation that betrays the public trust with lying, take Wells Fargo as a recent example. "Extra special outrage" is appropriate for all these corporations.

 

This is the Princess Forum and it is the appropriate place on CC to express that "extra special outrage."

Edited December 7, 2016 by El Crucero

[Charles4515]

Rhetorical question that cannot actually be answered, but it is something to think about...

 

 

 

How many people on this Board who have expressed their extra special outrage are also customers of Wells Fargo? And how many of them moved all their accounts out of that institution?

 

 

 

You just don't get it. This is the Cruise Critic Princess discussion board. It is not the Wells Fargo, Walmart board. We are reacting to Princess's criminal convictions because that is the topic.

 

 

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[Aquahound]

How many people on this Board who have expressed their extra special outrage are also customers of Wells Fargo? And how many of them moved all their accounts out of that institution?

 

Corporate outrage is fluid. Today, it's Princess. Later, it'll be someone else. I'm sure it won't be long before another cruise line pulls something else stupid and is the center of negative attention.

 

There is nothing hypocritical at all about expressing outrage over what Princess did, at this very moment and on this thread.

[JimmyVWine]

There is nothing hypocritical at all about expressing outrage over what Princess did, at this very moment and on this thread.

 

But there is something hypocritical about people claiming that their outrage directed at Princess is equal to their outrage directed at other companies that have betrayed the public trust if they plan to boycott Princess and let the other companies slide.

[cruisemom42]

Rhetorical question that cannot actually be answered, but it is something to think about...

 

How many people on this Board who have expressed their extra special outrage are also customers of Wells Fargo? And how many of them moved all their accounts out of that institution?

 

In a sense, these are argumentative red herrings. Why should anyone have to justify their sense of outrage about a company they have, in all likelihood, liked and trusted. I've read these boards for years and I know how much people tend to "personalize" their affiliation with a particular line.... I doubt they have such a strong affiliation with their bank, much less the store they shop in.

 

For the record: I've cruised with Princess since the early 1970s but am not one who is particularly brand loyal. I certainly do not have on blinkers, but I find what Princess did in attempting to cover up their activities to be something I just cannot stomach, for now. I don't care what other lines have or haven't done, I am disappointed with Princess.

 

I do not own Princess stock, I do not shop at Walmart or bank with Wells Fargo. I cruise most regularly on a line that owns a single, 350-passenger ship, and I am a long-time poster here who is widely known to be reasonable and not inflammatory.

 

All that said, none of this information should be necessary in order for me to be able to express my opinion about Princess's actions that resulted in a very large fine and seven felonies without being called a hypocrite.

[mugtech]

Corporate outrage is fluid. Today, it's Princess. Later, it'll be someone else. I'm sure it won't be long before another cruise line pulls something else stupid and is the center of negative attention.

 

There is nothing hypocritical at all about expressing outrage over what Princess did, at this very moment and on this thread.

 

Agree

[mugtech]

But there is something hypocritical about people claiming that their outrage directed at Princess is equal to their outrage directed at other companies that have betrayed the public trust if they plan to boycott Princess and let the other companies slide.

 

On here the ONLY outrage is about Princess. No complaining about killing giraffes unless Princess starts doing it.

[Woobstr112G]

But there is something hypocritical about people claiming that their outrage directed at Princess is equal to their outrage directed at other companies that have betrayed the public trust if they plan to boycott Princess and let the other companies slide.

 

 

Agreed.....:):):)

 

Bob

[pablo222]

Don't sell too fast now or you are going to miss out on the nice dividends and shareholder OBC.

 

How does one, who told us they were going to 'vote with their wallet',

collect ON BOARD credit?

[RDC1]

On here the ONLY outrage is about Princess. No complaining about killing giraffes unless Princess starts doing it.

 

It just might have something to do with the fact that the Web site is about cruising and the boaRd is about Princess. You will find complaints about giraffes numbers dropping on Web sites related to that subject.

[SheriffJoe]

In a sense, these are argumentative red herrings. Why should anyone have to justify their sense of outrage about a company they have, in all likelihood, liked and trusted. I've read these boards for years and I know how much people tend to "personalize" their affiliation with a particular line.... I doubt they have such a strong affiliation with their bank, much less the store they shop in.

 

For the record: I've cruised with Princess since the early 1970s but am not one who is particularly brand loyal. I certainly do not have on blinkers, but I find what Princess did in attempting to cover up their activities to be something I just cannot stomach, for now. I don't care what other lines have or haven't done, I am disappointed with Princess.

 

I do not own Princess stock, I do not shop at Walmart or bank with Wells Fargo. I cruise most regularly on a line that owns a single, 350-passenger ship, and I am a long-time poster here who is widely known to be reasonable and not inflammatory.

 

All that said, none of this information should be necessary in order for me to be able to express my opinion about Princess's actions that resulted in a very large fine and seven felonies without being called a hypocrite.

 

LMAO.....I don't know you to be "reasonable and not inflammatory" in fact most here don't know you at all....We must not have gotten the memo regarding your personality and posting style when CC released it :rolleyes:

[Charles4515]

It just might have something to do with the fact that the Web site is about cruising and the boaRd is about Princess. You will find complaints about giraffes numbers dropping on Web sites related to that subject.

 

 

 

Some posters seem more upset that some Princess customers are mad about Princess's felonies than that Princess committed the felonies.

 

Since the felonies became public I have received a constant barrage of offers from Princess. Today's offer is "Cross another place off your bucket list". I have crossed Princess off my bucket list for 2017. LOL. But I consider that a personal decision. That is my reaction to their felonies. I don't think people who book Princess in 2017 are bad people or wrong. I don't advocate that other people do what I do. In time I will get over the stench of what Princess did and book them again.

 

 

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[easyboy]

Some posters seem more upset that some Princess customers are mad about Princess's felonies than that Princess committed the felonies.

 

Since the felonies became public I have received a constant barrage of offers from Princess. Today's offer is "Cross another place off your bucket list". I have crossed Princess off my bucket list for 2017. LOL. But I consider that a personal decision. That is my reaction to their felonies. I don't think people who book Princess in 2017 are bad people or wrong. I don't advocate that other people do what I do. In time I will get over the stench of what Princess did and book them again.

Fair enough.