The one thing I strongly dislike about cruise ships...

[SantaFeFan]

Is the amount of pollution and waste they produce. I find ships amazing, but I really wish they could be a lot more environmentally friendly.

 

Sometimes that makes me not want to cruise. Has this affected anyone's decision about whether to cruise or not?

 

Since this bothers you, I presume that you will be walking to the cruise port instead of riding in a car or flying in a plane? Per capita, they are even worse polluters than a cruise ship. If the cruise ship's pollution bothers you, then these should be bothering you even more. :eek:

Edited January 8, 2017 by SantaFeFan

[chengkp75]

OP, I don't think anyone would call a cruise ship green. It's biggest problem is all the fuel that it burns and the sulfur and carbon that it emits into the air.

 

It's a serious problem that lots of people are talking about. And, as this article shows, the cruise lines don't like the attention that it is getting on this issue: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/21/the-worlds-largest-cruise-ship-and-its-supersized-pollution-problem

 

Again, I've got a few problems with the cited article.

 

It implies (but has later retracted, somewhat) the idea that Harmony would be running all 6 diesel engines at full load when leaving port, which is just not true. The local environmental group complains about the cruise ships and the "bulk cargo" ships. Most bulkers have far less horsepower than the typical mid-size cruise ship, let alone Harmony. And how many cruise ships the size of Harmony are there? Three. Now, the Maersk Lines Triple-E class container ships also call at Southampton, and these ships have 70% of the power of Harmony, all in two engines, and these slow speed engines are far more polluting at the slow speeds experienced entering/leaving port than Harmony's constant speed diesel generators. How many of these behemoth container ships are there? Twenty. But, no one complains about these ships, why? Again, the cost of consumer goods would rise.

 

Harmony has been fitted with exhaust scrubbers to meet the US ECA emissions standards, so that she can continue to burn the residual fuel oil that the article complains about, but with the most stringent NOX, SOX, and particulate emissions standards in the world, which the German pollution expert fails to mention when he claims the ships put out particulate matter. Ships are required to burn either diesel fuel, or use their scrubbers, while in EU ports, including Germany. If Southampton is so concerned about their air quality, why hasn't the UK agreed to join the EU ports in their emissions control standards, and require diesel fuel or scrubbers?

 

I'm not sure the cruise lines "don't like the attention" this is getting, as much as they want the facts stated correctly. The cruise lines also don't like the fact that they have a large target on their back, and come in for more public scrutiny than any other segment of the industry.

 

Do cruise ships burn a lot of fuel? Yes. However, ocean transport has been shown over and over again to be the most efficient mode of transport there is, better than cars, buses, trains, airplanes. Pound of fuel per pound of cargo moved per mile is by far the best.

 

Another factor that environmentalists don't address is the fact that the IMO has set a 2020 deadline for marine fuels to be below 0.5% (down from the current 3%), which is a tremendous reduction in sulfur emissions, and a phenomenal goal to get the world's oil industry to meet, and brings worldwide sulfur limits far closer to those of the ECA's around the world (0.1%), for all the world's shipping, not just cruise ships, which shows that the IMO knows how small a percentage of the world's shipping the cruise industry represents.

[mom says]

Silly thread of the week award, if you ask me.

 

The OP certainly nailed that award last week. But this week is still brand new. This thread is a contender, but I'm sure the OP is capable of more.

[cbr663]

Again, I've got a few problems with the cited article.

 

...

 

No surprise there as your general comments tend to show a favourable bias towards the cruise industry.

[BoiiMcFly]

The OP certainly nailed that award last week. But this week is still brand new. This thread is a contender, but I'm sure the OP is capable of more.

 

It is my pleasure to keep people entertained :D oh and hopefully folks understand that I do very much appreciate the information they share with me on here. Some do it better than others.

Edited January 8, 2017 by BoiiMcFly

[Pyrate13]

Can't let actual knowledge and experience from a person with years in the ship industry get in the way right? Better to believe articles with incomplete and/or misleading information to support their agenda. Typical media. :rolleyes:

[sparks1093]

No surprise there as your general comments tend to show a favourable bias towards the cruise industry.

 

Actually I've seen little bias and a lot of facts in cheng's posts.

[chengkp75]

No surprise there as your general comments tend to show a favourable bias towards the cruise industry.

 

I believe I've spanked cruise lines here on CC, when it is deserved. As with anything in life, I hate distortion of the truth.

[leaveitallbehind]

No surprise there as your general comments tend to show a favourable bias towards the cruise industry.

 

IMO, I don't think it's a bias when it is a position based on direct experience and fact, and with chengkp75's lifetime maritime career, I believe his comments reflect that. I for one always appreciate his well thought out and detailed responses to questions and comments with respect to his expertise and knowledge.

Edited January 8, 2017 by leaveitallbehind

[mom says]

It is my pleasure to keep people entertained :D oh and hopefully folks understand that I do very much appreciate the information they share with me on here. Some do it better than others.

 

I'm sorry if you took my post as some kind of approval for some of the threads you have started (including this one). It wasn't. Most of us are quite patient with newcomers to the cruising world, and are happy to give advice on cruising, or point them towards sources of information for their cruising needs.

 

But these threads are not that. What kind of response did you think you'd get on a forum of cruise fans when you start it with "the thing I strongly dislike about cruise ships...." and later link to a single article with dubious data from a group with an agenda?

 

Please think before you post. Perhaps attempt a little more independent research and critical analysis of your readings before accepting them as gospel. If, instead of coming here with an accusation against the cruise lines (and with NO personal experience) you had simply asked a question about the accuracy of that article, the responses here might have been a lot different. We are all a novice to things at some points in our lives. The smart person starts off by asking questions. He doesn't start by suggesting new ways of doing things (of which he has no in depth knowledge) or by making accusations not backed up by a strong field of proven data.

Edited January 9, 2017 by mom says

[mom says]

No surprise there as your general comments tend to show a favourable bias towards the cruise industry.

 

Given his experience as a mariner, he rarely needs to justify any of his postings here. Do you have the experience and knowledge base to question the validity of his posts? ?

[BoiiMcFly]

I'm sorry if you took my post as some kind of approval for some of the threads you have started (including this one). It wasn't. Most of us are quite patient with newcomers to the cruising world, and are happy to give advice on cruising, or point them towards sources of information for their cruising needs.

 

But these threads are not that. What kind of response did you think you'd get on a forum of cruise fans when you start it with "the thing I strongly dislike about cruise ships...." and later link to a single article with dubious data from a group with an agenda?

 

Please think before you post. Perhaps attempt a little more independent research and critical analysis of your readings before accepting them as gospel. If, instead of coming here with an accusation against the cruise lines (and with NO personal experience) you had simply asked a question about the accuracy of that article, the responses here might have been a lot different. We are all a novice to things at some points in our lives. The smart person starts off by asking questions. He doesn't start by suggesting new ways of doing things (of which he has no in depth knowledge) or by making accusations not backed up by a strong field of proven data.

 

How about you do not tell me what to do please. You can disagree with my post and that is completely fine, but a person is entitled to freedom of speech and I don't believe I have been disrepectful. I respect you and wouldn't judge you, so how about you do the same. And sure, maybe the title was a little provocative for some...but if you can't agree that there is at least some truth behind my argument, then I would also consider that biased. These megaships create pollution and waste, and I believe even honest experts will agree with that. But like many others have stated, it isn't necessarily worse than driving or flying a plane.

Edited January 9, 2017 by BoiiMcFly

[sloopsailor]

How about you do not tell me what to do please. You can disagree with my post and that is completely fine, but a person is entitled to freedom of speech and I don't believe I have been disrepectful. I respect you and wouldn't judge you, so how about you do the same. And sure, maybe the title was a little provocative for some...but if you can't agree that there is at least some truth behind my argument, then I would also consider that biased. These megaships create pollution and waste, and I believe even honest experts will agree with that. But like many others have stated, it isn't necessarily worse than driving or flying a plane.

 

Actually, modern cruise ships are far and away cleaner per passenger mile than either driving or flying. And, they handle waste much better than both of those as well. Please accept this truth instead of continuing to argue otherwise. And this is fact, not bias. To insinuate that people who post such facts are biased and are only reporting a skewed representation of the truth is insulting.

 

Clearly, the only one posting here who is showing bias is you.

 

As for being "entitled" to freedom of speech: you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

Edited January 9, 2017 by sloopsailor

[BoiiMcFly]

Actually, modern cruise ships are far and away cleaner per passenger mile than either driving or flying. And, they handle waste much better than both of those as well. Please accept this truth instead of continuing to argue otherwise. And this is fact, not bias. To insinuate that people who post such facts are biased and are only reporting a skewed representation of the truth is insulting.

 

Clearly, the only one posting here who is showing bias is you.

 

As for being "entitled" to freedom of speech: you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

 

I actually never argued that they create more pollution than other forms of transportation. I was just pointing out that they could be more eco-friendly, which they definitely could be. As I also mentioned before, I am sure the cruise lines are working very hard at making them as environmentally friendly as possible. I don't understand why people only see the "negative" in a post. I love cruise ships and find them very fascinating, but sometimes pointing out imperfections isn't a bad thing either. It doesn't change my interest in cruise ships. Will always be interested. But anyway, may have gotten on a rough start with some.my intentions are to exchange useful information with folks. Hope we can start fresh.

[GUT2407]

Sounds like my experience doing KP during basic training.

 

That was my thought too.

[chengkp75]

These megaships create pollution and waste, and I believe even honest experts will agree with that.

 

Regardless of how "green" a lifestyle someone follows, the simple fact of their living creates pollution and waste. A cruise is a vacation, it is leisure, it is not something required in life, but I would not say it is more wasteful or polluting than any other form of vacation. It is all in how you handle the pollution and waste that matters.

 

I love cruise ships and find them very fascinating, but sometimes pointing out imperfections isn't a bad thing either.

 

But pointing out imperfections without suggesting ways to improve, or even asking questions whether there are ways to improve is not helpful, but merely denigration. If you truly love cruise ships, you would be asking how to make the thing you love better, not just flatly stating that there is something about it that you "strongly dislike".

Edited January 9, 2017 by chengkp75

[Aquahound]

I was just pointing out that they could be more eco-friendly, which they definitely could be.

 

How?

[martinthebandit]

http://www.timworstall.com/2017/01/08/cruise-ships-and-pollution/

[BoiiMcFly]

Regardless of how "green" a lifestyle someone follows, the simple fact of their living creates pollution and waste. A cruise is a vacation, it is leisure, it is not something required in life, but I would not say it is more wasteful or polluting than any other form of vacation. It is all in how you handle the pollution and waste that matters.

 

 

 

But pointing out imperfections without suggesting ways to improve, or even asking questions whether there are ways to improve is not helpful, but merely denigration. If you truly love cruise ships, you would be asking how to make the thing you love better, not just flatly stating that there is something about it that you "strongly dislike".

 

Fair point! Bad wording on my part. Once again, I think my post just created a misunderstanding due to my poor title selection. "What technology is being implemented to make cruise ships greener?" would have been a better title I suppose and what I'm actually interested in finding out.

Edited January 9, 2017 by BoiiMcFly

[chengkp75]

http://www.timworstall.com/2017/01/08/cruise-ships-and-pollution/

 

As noted by some of the respondents in your link, the ship would only be running one diesel generator in port, typically the smallest, to keep load up. All these ships have power management programs that add or remove diesel generator sets depending on the actual demand at that moment, attempting to keep the load as close to 80% (the best efficiency) at all times.

 

What about the other ships in port? Do they think they are not running diesel engines in port?

 

Just did a quick search, and found that since 2012, the UK MCA (Maritime and Coastguard Authority), has followed the EU requirements to only allow ships to burn fuel with 0.1% sulfur while in port, and the English Channel is a recognized ECA which mandates 0.1% sulfur fuel as well, and last time I checked, Southampton was within the English Channel. So, either coming into/going out of, or while in Southampton, all ships, not just cruise ships must either be burning low sulfur diesel fuel, not the residual fuel that is quoted as having high emissions, or use a scrubber documented to meet the emissions requirements of the EU member states.

[Beachdude]

No surprise there as your general comments tend to show a favourable bias towards the cruise industry.

 

I would be curious to read any factual challenges to chengs posts.

 

Burt