Holland America's Seattle HQ Maintains Its Downhill Spiral

[kazu]

Kazu, I wish for you many more H.A.L. cruises and hope they all meet your expectations.

 

For many H.A.L. remains a good mass market cruise line, but it is no longer a premium line.

 

I trust you will appreciate that others who are seeking a cruise, in keeping with their expectations, may choose to explore other alternatives.

 

thank you for the good wishes :D

 

I have been on many lines over the years and suspect we will be on others in the future. ;).

 

There is nothing wrong with alternatives. There are lots of them. ;)

[Grimsby]

Our upcoming cruise will be our 20th, but 3d on H.A.L. We booked in April, and in November shortly after final payment was charged to my credit card, saw the advertised price drop by about $500. in total for the two of us. Same cruise dates, same stateroom class. Despite communicating several times with H.A.L. they absolutely refused to offer even a small compensatory on board credit. Their response amounted to: "We don't have to do anything for you, the cruise is sold out." This cruise will be the last on that line.

[navybankerteacher]

Kazu, I wish for you many more H.A.L. cruises and hope they all meet your expectations.

 

For many H.A.L. remains a good mass market cruise line, but it is no longer a premium line.

 

I trust you will appreciate that others who are seeking a cruise, in keeping with their expectations, may choose to explore other alternatives.

 

I do not think HAL was ever a premium line. It was, and in my view remains, one of the better mass market lines. I certainly do not agree with the oft-spouted blather that the mass market lines are more alike than different.

 

Some people might prefer NCL to HAL, or Royal Caribbean, or Carnival -- it is at least in part a matter of taste - but those lines are not alike. Princess and HAL are different, as are Celebrity and HAL.

 

I expect to continue trying different lines - sometimes the itinerary outweighs the line - sometimes price is a factor, but never the controlling one: if it were, I'd stay home and save my money.

[whogo]

My wife was also surprised that fresh flowers were no longer placed in our Signature Suite.

I don't think this has anything to do with Seattle, somebody erred. Fresh flowers are one of the advertised amenities of a signature suite. Did you ask anyone why they were not there?

 

I thought that lobster tails, filet mignon, and snails were only available in the main dining room, it's news to me that the Lido has them sometimes.

[Tinknock50]

There weren't any flowers in our suite on the Oosterdam in June. Are they being phased out?

 

We were so overjoyed at our forward facing room that I forgot all about it. We were getting ready to disembark on the last day when it dawned on me we never received them. Felt kind of sad about that.

[Sue from Canada]

I don't think this has anything to do with Seattle, somebody erred. Fresh flowers are one of the advertised amenities of a signature suite. Did you ask anyone why they were not there?

 

I thought that lobster tails, filet mignon, and snails were only available in the main dining room, it's news to me that the Lido has them sometimes.

 

I've never seen lobster tails and filet mignon in the Lido. Yes to snails on the MDR menu. If HAL wants to make cuts I could do away with the pm room cleaning and turn down service. But in return I want a lot of other cut backs reactivated.

[Hflors]

I've never seen lobster tails and filet mignon in the Lido. Yes to snails on the MDR menu. If HAL wants to make cuts I could do away with the pm room cleaning and turn down service. But in return I want a lot of other cut backs reactivated.

 

I don't think HAL will eliminate pm service as then people will want to cut the stewards gratuity.

[qsuzi]

so, looking at carnival corp's financials for last quarter, their profit margin was about 24.8%, which is about typical for most businesses, and considered to be the "healthy" range by investors, certainly not rapacious. Much more important in a capital heavy industry like shipping is return on investment. Carnival corp made $1.3 billion in net income on $40.6 billion in assets, for a return of 3.2% which is not that outstanding, and well below the 5% that is considered to be the median return. so, they can either cut back on amenities and hold fares low, or keep the amenities and raise fares, either way they are not making bundles of money, or reaping outrageous profits.

 

exactly!

[Quartzsite Cruiser]

On our recent Prinsendam cruise, they had filet mignon and lobster tails in the Lido on the final gala night, I believe they had the filet and shrimp on the other gala nights.

 

We also had flowers in our Visita suite. Because of allergies, we could easily have skipped the flowers. Instead, we put them on the balcony table.

[iancal]

Price can only be an indicator. The same can apply to any other travel product...especially AI's.

 

Of course one can have a poor cruise on a premium line. You can have a terrible cruise on any line. I met a very loyal HAL customer on a Celebrity cruise a few years ago who decided to abandon HAL after two unhappy cruises on Veendam in the space of seven months. According to him no air, no plumbing on both cruises and shipboard management refused to meet with him. I think, based on the reports, that some who sailed on the recent post dry dock Rotterdam cruise would not say that they had a stellar experience.

 

I have no doubt that there are thousands of cruisers who have had wonderful cruises on Oceania, just as there are on HAL or any other cruise line. One thing for certain. I would not be happy if I had a dud of a cruise while sailing our regular balcony/verandah cabin. I would be considerably more upset if I had paid three times the price for a suite and still had a substandard cabin experience, poor service, food, entertainment....whatever. I really do think that your chances of ending up on a dud cruise are higher on a mass market line that they are on a smaller premium or luxury line. We also think that one way to avoid a dud cruise is to select cruises based on ship rather than cruise line-most especially in the mass market offerings.

Edited December 8, 2017 by iancal

[Tampa Girl]

Well that's rather obvious now is it not?

 

It certainly isn't obvious from the negative comments.

[Tampa Girl]

Our upcoming cruise will be our 20th, but 3d on H.A.L. We booked in April, and in November shortly after final payment was charged to my credit card, saw the advertised price drop by about $500. in total for the two of us. Same cruise dates, same stateroom class. Despite communicating several times with H.A.L. they absolutely refused to offer even a small compensatory on board credit. Their response amounted to: "We don't have to do anything for you, the cruise is sold out." This cruise will be the last on that line.

 

And when you book a plane fare and someone has gotten a better price for the same category seat; or a hotel room of the same category - and the plane and hotel are booked solid - you still think you should get a lower price? Really??? If the plane is sold out and the hotel is booked solid, why would you possibly expect a reduction in your rate?

[Aquahound]

Our upcoming cruise will be our 20th, but 3d on H.A.L. We booked in April, and in November shortly after final payment was charged to my credit card, saw the advertised price drop by about $500. in total for the two of us. Same cruise dates, same stateroom class. Despite communicating several times with H.A.L. they absolutely refused to offer even a small compensatory on board credit. Their response amounted to: "We don't have to do anything for you, the cruise is sold out." This cruise will be the last on that line.

 

How was the cruise sold out if there were rooms advertised at $500 less that what you paid? :confused:

 

Either way, none of the major cruise lines credit price differences after final payment. With 20 cruises, it seems you should know that. It's been that way for years.

[VennDiagram]

...

 

One thing for certain. I would not be happy if I had a dud of a cruise while sailing our regular balcony/verandah cabin. I would be considerably more upset if I had paid three times the price for a suite and still had a substandard cabin experience, poor service, food, entertainment....whatever.

...

 

 

I agree. I would be loathe to risk another premium priced cruise on whatever premium line provided the first "dud", especially if little or no meaningful effort was made for recovery.

 

edited to add: A sincere apology, a gesture of goodwill, can go a long way to retaining a customer who is dissatisfied. I recently had an issue with a different kind of service provider, wherein no one apologized, until I got a vice president involved. That was too little, too late. They've lost my business permanently.

[Grimsby]

And when you book a plane fare and someone has gotten a better price for the same category seat; or a hotel room of the same category - and the plane and hotel are booked solid - you still think you should get a lower price? Really??? If the plane is sold out and the hotel is booked solid, why would you possibly expect a reduction in your rate?

Tampa Girl: You might want to take a moment and read my posting again. I did NOT request a price reduction or refund. Rather I am pointing out H.A.L.'s adamant stubborn refusal to even consider some small token, in the form of a bit of on-board credit, to an early booking customer for the dramatic decrease in price very shortly after they had charged final payment to my credit card. H.A.L.'s uncompromising, hard-nosed attitude was so surprising and is so different from the Holland America Line I remember. But it may just be a sign of the difficulties cruises lines are now experiencing trying to keep their ships filled while maintaining a reasonable profit margin.

[RDC1]

Tampa Girl: You might want to take a moment and read my posting again. I did NOT request a price reduction or refund. Rather I am pointing out H.A.L.'s adamant stubborn refusal to even consider some small token, in the form of a bit of on-board credit, to an early booking customer for the dramatic decrease in price very shortly after they had charged final payment to my credit card. H.A.L.'s uncompromising, hard-nosed attitude was so surprising and is so different from the Holland America Line I remember. But it may just be a sign of the difficulties cruises lines are now experiencing trying to keep their ships filled while maintaining a reasonable profit margin.

Pretty standard practice for all of the main stream lines. So you can move to another line but they will do the same thing.

[navybankerteacher]

Tampa Girl: You might want to take a moment and read my posting again. I did NOT request a price reduction or refund. Rather I am pointing out H.A.L.'s adamant stubborn refusal to even consider some small token, in the form of a bit of on-board credit, to an early booking customer for the dramatic decrease in price very shortly after they had charged final payment to my credit card. H.A.L.'s uncompromising, hard-nosed attitude was so surprising and is so different from the Holland America Line I remember. But it may just be a sign of the difficulties cruises lines are now experiencing trying to keep their ships filled while maintaining a reasonable profit margin.

 

The point remains - if the fare had gone UP after you booked, would you "...even consider some small token..." to give the line in comparable recognition?

[CruiserBruce]

The point remains - if the fare had gone UP after you booked, would you "...even consider some small token..." to give the line in comparable recognition?

 

Excellent point, and of course the answer is "No way".

[LMaxwell]

I am always shopping HAL. I am willing to pay a premium compared to mass market lines for a premium experience. Notice I did not say luxury prices for luxury experience. But I am willing to pay for a nicer overall experience. For the prices I do not expect NCL or Carnival with different decor, I expect a more refined and notch upscale experience.

 

So much dumbing down of the product and fear to commit to excellence. If you offer an excellent product, customers willingly pay. When you fake it, customers know and want cut rate.

[LMaxwell]

The point remains - if the fare had gone UP after you booked, would you "...even consider some small token..." to give the line in comparable recognition?

 

This is a forum for paying guests. Enough with absurd corporate white knighting. We are here to obtain the best value for our hard earned dollars. If you want to be a corporate spokesman go submit your resume.

 

I have been in similar situation, deposit early, make final payment, price drops massively after final payment. Not exactly conditioning me to book early and book often. I don't book suites or aft cabins, so as long as I have cabins above and below/next to me, I'm good anywhere. That price premium hasn't bought me much in that case. But I don't take NO for an answer easily either and will put in some time against a TA or company to achieve what I think is fair, for me, for my money. Often I am successful in this quest. Sometimes not as much. But I don't sit there and let my heart bleed for corporations not paying US taxes. It's one thing to play Devils Advocate, it is another to advocate against your own best outcome.

[CruiserBruce]

This is a forum for paying guests. Enough with absurd corporate white knighting. We are here to obtain the best value for our hard earned dollars. If you want to be a corporate spokesman go submit your resume.

 

What is right is right. To say otherwise is, at minimum, hypocritical.

[LMaxwell]

What is right is right. To say otherwise is, at minimum, hypocritical.

 

I am pointing out how patently absurd it would be for any paying guest to leap to pay more if price increases after they make final payment. This forum is riddled with people who play CFO.

[Tampa Girl]

Tampa Girl: You might want to take a moment and read my posting again. I did NOT request a price reduction or refund. Rather I am pointing out H.A.L.'s adamant stubborn refusal to even consider some small token, in the form of a bit of on-board credit, to an early booking customer for the dramatic decrease in price very shortly after they had charged final payment to my credit card. H.A.L.'s uncompromising, hard-nosed attitude was so surprising and is so different from the Holland America Line I remember. But it may just be a sign of the difficulties cruises lines are now experiencing trying to keep their ships filled while maintaining a reasonable profit margin.

 

I was aware that you had not asked for a price reduction. However, an OBC is, effectively, a price reduction because it reduces your final out of pocket costs. You may well be correct that HAL's refusal to bend is a sign of the times. Four years ago when the prices dropped on a TA, HAL gave us a substantial OBC. A year ago when the prices were reduced on a TA, their response, according to our agent was: "You already have a good deal. We don't need to reduce it further!" Now, whether that was actually HAL's response or the attitude of our TA, is questionable. The result, however, was the same: Nada!

[RocketMan275]

This is a forum for paying guests. Enough with absurd corporate white knighting. We are here to obtain the best value for our hard earned dollars. If you want to be a corporate spokesman go submit your resume.

 

I have been in similar situation, deposit early, make final payment, price drops massively after final payment. Not exactly conditioning me to book early and book often. I don't book suites or aft cabins, so as long as I have cabins above and below/next to me, I'm good anywhere. That price premium hasn't bought me much in that case. But I don't take NO for an answer easily either and will put in some time against a TA or company to achieve what I think is fair, for me, for my money. Often I am successful in this quest. Sometimes not as much. But I don't sit there and let my heart bleed for corporations not paying US taxes. It's one thing to play Devils Advocate, it is another to advocate against your own best outcome.

 

You do realize that if Carnival paid more in taxes, your cost of cruising would increase?

[iancal]

The fact that Carnival Corp, through their offshore structure, avoids or significantly reduces their tax burden by doing so is only part of the equaition.

 

The real biggie, for Carnival Corp, RCI, and others is the ability to escape as much as pesky labor, health and workplace safety, discrimination legislation, regulation that we tend to take for granted in most jurisdictions in North America. Not only do they not have to comply but it excludes them from oversight. It is also of great value when it comes to pending litigation by a customer. Just one of the reasons that the industry and the corporations spend millions of dollars annually in lobbying and political donations. Like L Maxwell, they want to most return for their dollar.

 

I think that L Maxwell is doing what any prudent consumer would do. Why not? The worst answer would be no. It so very easy to criticize others when it is someone else's money at stake.

 

Vendors make concessions that they do not legally have to make all the time. They do so as a goodwill gesture to retain a good customer. The last paper I read was that it cost four times as much to gain a new customer as it does to retain a current customer. I am certainly not going to criticize anyone for trying to get the best deal possible.

Edited December 9, 2017 by iancal