We will always be loyal to royal, but what is happening????

[Freethinker1602]

There will be a tipping point I believe, but the question is, what will the tipping point be and when? I am completely horrified by any disaster preparedness on the RCCL big ships. They have ONE doctor on their staff to care for all passengers. If there were some type of mass disease outbreak or a major mass casualty accident with multiple severe injuries, on a sea day, like day 2 sea day of 4, where the boat is a whole 24 hours away from help... but that's aside from the point. Also, on my last trip okn Anthem, there were bed bugs in one of the cabins, I was sitting next to the woman in the clinic on the ship who had that cabin, they quarantined it and moved her. They did not offer her new clothes, so she wore her potentially contaminated clothes into the new stateroom. The clinic became over whelmed and locked their door on a rough sea day (16 foot seas and the ship was "bowing under").

 

My concern is what the cost will be to force the behavior of big cruise companies to change.

 

Also, on Anthem, a man died during an excursion. The excursions are marketed as being safer and more or less guaranteed, especially if you have travel insurance.

 

He was middle aged. He was sweaty and said he was tired and needed to cool off. They were on the snorkeling excursion. He jumped in and paddled around a little. He had a heart attack in the water. He was still breathing and his heart was beating when he was pulled from the water. He was almost entirely unconscious. His heart stopped beating soon thereafter. He was being attended by a fellow passenger who is medically trained and her husband. RCCL was still going to charge the woman that rendered CPR to the man for her "snorkeling excursion." I was sitting with her in the Shore Excursions desk seating area. She told me all of this. Individuals that suffer a sudden cardiac event have a roughly 50/50 chance of survival if CPR and an AED and electric cardiac shock (if required) are delivered within 10 minutes of cardiac arrest.

 

Why don't RCCL recognized excursion companies have basic medical emergency equipment? I mean an AED is a couple thousand dollars, that profit is easily recouped after 1 group excursion from the ship.

 

I know the answer is their bottom line.

 

A man died for lack of a basic piece of medical equipment widely available at public facilities in first world countries.

 

The wife of the deceased stayed on the island with her husband's body and will have to pay for and arrange his repatriation.

 

That tour bus in Mexico where 3 cruise passengers died?

 

A woman fell critically ill on a catamaran excursion I was on and the company insisted on getting a wheel chair from the cruise ship to get her back on board.

 

It would have been much better for her if the boat had a back board. My husband and I were both EMT's and we were on board this excursion with a doctor. We could have safely transported her back to the ship instead of a wheel chair. We waited for a long time, they didn't even have the wheel chair waiting for her.

 

Same story of the man that died, the ambulance was not waiting at the pier, it took the ambulance another 10-15 minutes to arrive after getting to shore with this man that had suffered the heart attack. That is almost a moot point because he was already dead because there was no AED.

 

What will the price be? When will something happen and people say "enough."

 

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[SteelMagnolia9]

I still like Royal’s product and have one cruise booked in October 2018 to Bermuda with them as well as one with Princess to the Caribbean in May with an itinerary I like. Royal offers a solid mid-market cruise that meets my price point. I’m not “loyal”, but I do look at their offerings along with some other cruise lines when I’m deciding on a cruise. I’m all about the destination, then I look at cruise lines in my price point. The cruise lines loyalty programs don’t factor into my decision making at all.

[LMaxwell]

There will be a tipping point I believe, but the question is, what will the tipping point be and when?

 

A fire or sinking in which all life boats can not be launched due to technical failures, poor training, ship listing, etc., I think would be the impetus.

 

Many changes made after Concordia disaster but hard to say if they went far enough until put to the test

[cltnccruisers]

FreeThinker1602,

 

For on board medical support I would agree that cruise lines are somewhat lacking and for that they should be called to task. But I'm not sure what the excursion providers can reasonably be expected to provide. Frankly, some of these port calls are barely second world countries. Can you really expect a small local company running a bus to some Mayan ruins to spend a couple thousand dollars for an AED?

 

I had a bout of congestive heart failure a few years ago. Fortunately I was at home and was transported to the hospital quickly. BP was 300/140 - seriously. The ER cardiologist was like, "Why isn't this guy dead?" - he's still my cardiologist.

 

But I would never go on a cruise excursion expecting anything beyond very basic medical ability. In fact, I would hope there might be a medico among my fellow passengers before relying on the excursion operators.

[rukkian]

There will be a tipping point I believe, but the question is, what will the tipping point be and when? I am completely horrified by any disaster preparedness on the RCCL big ships. They have ONE doctor on their staff to care for all passengers. If there were some type of mass disease outbreak or a major mass casualty accident with multiple severe injuries, on a sea day, like day 2 sea day of 4, where the boat is a whole 24 hours away from help... but that's aside from the point. Also, on my last trip okn Anthem, there were bed bugs in one of the cabins, I was sitting next to the woman in the clinic on the ship who had that cabin, they quarantined it and moved her. They did not offer her new clothes, so she wore her potentially contaminated clothes into the new stateroom. The clinic became over whelmed and locked their door on a rough sea day (16 foot seas and the ship was "bowing under").

 

My concern is what the cost will be to force the behavior of big cruise companies to change.

 

Also, on Anthem, a man died during an excursion. The excursions are marketed as being safer and more or less guaranteed, especially if you have travel insurance.

 

He was middle aged. He was sweaty and said he was tired and needed to cool off. They were on the snorkeling excursion. He jumped in and paddled around a little. He had a heart attack in the water. He was still breathing and his heart was beating when he was pulled from the water. He was almost entirely unconscious. His heart stopped beating soon thereafter. He was being attended by a fellow passenger who is medically trained and her husband. RCCL was still going to charge the woman that rendered CPR to the man for her "snorkeling excursion." I was sitting with her in the Shore Excursions desk seating area. She told me all of this. Individuals that suffer a sudden cardiac event have a roughly 50/50 chance of survival if CPR and an AED and electric cardiac shock (if required) are delivered within 10 minutes of cardiac arrest.

 

Why don't RCCL recognized excursion companies have basic medical emergency equipment? I mean an AED is a couple thousand dollars, that profit is easily recouped after 1 group excursion from the ship.

 

I know the answer is their bottom line.

 

A man died for lack of a basic piece of medical equipment widely available at public facilities in first world countries.

 

The wife of the deceased stayed on the island with her husband's body and will have to pay for and arrange his repatriation.

 

That tour bus in Mexico where 3 cruise passengers died?

 

A woman fell critically ill on a catamaran excursion I was on and the company insisted on getting a wheel chair from the cruise ship to get her back on board.

 

It would have been much better for her if the boat had a back board. My husband and I were both EMT's and we were on board this excursion with a doctor. We could have safely transported her back to the ship instead of a wheel chair. We waited for a long time, they didn't even have the wheel chair waiting for her.

 

Same story of the man that died, the ambulance was not waiting at the pier, it took the ambulance another 10-15 minutes to arrive after getting to shore with this man that had suffered the heart attack. That is almost a moot point because he was already dead because there was no AED.

 

What will the price be? When will something happen and people say "enough."

 

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I was with you in the maybe doing better on board, but you completely lost me on the excursions. While you may but the excursions through rci, they are not employees, just independent contractors. These are people living in it bad conditions in many instances and after paying all their bills and staff, I doubt they are rolling in dough. Expecting things like aed is asking allot.

 

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[frugaltravel]

Finally, I do not understand the "We will always be loyal to Royal." Why? Companies should be loyal to me, to earn my dollars... not the other way around. The minute I am not happy with any company or product, is when I stop using it. No "loyatly perk" is worth a product that I am not happy with.

 

That was my initial reaction too. I guess RCCL know that so many of their cruisers will be loyal to them no matter what "I am at too high of a level with the perks that I can't start over with another cruise line." I think this is why the cruise lines keep cutting services and food service on board...because they can and they still fill their ships, even with repeat cruisers.

[CruisingNole]

That was my initial reaction too. I guess RCCL know that so many of their cruisers will be loyal to them no matter what "I am at too high of a level with the perks that I can't start over with another cruise line." I think this is why the cruise lines keep cutting services and food service on board...because they can and they still fill their ships, even with repeat cruisers.

 

The data that rewards/loyalty programs provides corporations is invaluable. They don't have to monitor forums like this. They can just make cuts, and make some more cuts, and then look at the spending behavior of their "loyal" cruisers and then make adjustments, or lack thereof, accordingly.

[Freethinker1602]

FreeThinker1602,

 

For on board medical support I would agree that cruise lines are somewhat lacking and for that they should be called to task. But I'm not sure what the excursion providers can reasonably be expected to provide. Frankly, some of these port calls are barely second world countries. Can you really expect a small local company running a bus to some Mayan ruins to spend a couple thousand dollars for an AED?

 

I had a bout of congestive heart failure a few years ago. Fortunately I was at home and was transported to the hospital quickly. BP was 300/140 - seriously. The ER cardiologist was like, "Why isn't this guy dead?" - he's still my cardiologist.

 

But I would never go on a cruise excursion expecting anything beyond very basic medical ability. In fact, I would hope there might be a medico among my fellow passengers before relying on the excursion operators.

by no means should the excursion operator have to shell out that kind of dough. I kniw the excursion company does not make enough and Royal Caribbean probably gets a disproportionate cut compared to the tour operator. Royal Caribbean should furnish it to them. If it is a company Royal Caribbean recognizes and promotes, they should be willing to help that company operate at a higher and safer standard. G-d knows Royal Caribbean can afford to buy AED's and proper medical equipment for the companies that provide a profit for them from the excursions.

 

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[rukkian]

by no means should the excursion operator have to shell out that kind of dough. I kniw the excursion company does not make enough and Royal Caribbean probably gets a disproportionate cut compared to the tour operator. Royal Caribbean should furnish it to them. If it is a company Royal Caribbean recognizes and promotes, they should be willing to help that company operate at a higher and safer standard. G-d knows Royal Caribbean can afford to buy AED's and proper medical equipment for the companies that provide a profit for them from the excursions.

 

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That would be fine if they only did rci excursions, but few are like that. 3/4 of the excursions we took this year has people from other lines in the same trip. You can even book many of them directly.

 

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[F27TW]

"ALWAYS" ??

 

 

Oh .. don't ever say "always" ... RC has a long way to go toward the bottom ... you may give up at some point.

[time4u2go]

...

Also, on Anthem, a man died during an excursion. The excursions are marketed as being safer and more or less guaranteed, especially if you have travel insurance.

...

Where have you seen that?

[pspercy]

Ahh..nice...you have a blocking system. :cool:

 

I have just learned to put them on mental ignore...much like those robo calls. ;p:p

 

Try http://nomorobo.com/ works well for us:)

[cltnccruisers]

by no means should the excursion operator have to shell out that kind of dough. I kniw the excursion company does not make enough and Royal Caribbean probably gets a disproportionate cut compared to the tour operator. Royal Caribbean should furnish it to them. If it is a company Royal Caribbean recognizes and promotes, they should be willing to help that company operate at a higher and safer standard. G-d knows Royal Caribbean can afford to buy AED's and proper medical equipment for the companies that provide a profit for them from the excursions.

 

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Unless they had their own employees on site and being held accountable, the cruise lines would be replacing lost or stolen equipment on a monthly basis. I just don't see it being a reasonable business decision for most lines. The exception might be the adventure/exploration type of cruise that take you to Antarctica and the like. No excursion companies so in that case the line had to have almost every medical emergency covered.

[Iluvcruising2]

I think Royal is a decent cruise line, but I am in no way loyal to them.

 

My most recent cruise was on the MSC Meraviglia (2nd time in the Yacht Club for MSC), and loved it!

 

I don't usually drink on land, so had plenty of fun with the cocktails.

 

That said, would I sail on Royal again? Why not?

If the price is right and the itinerary/ship is attractive.

[LMaxwell]

Feel kinda bad for people who are so wrapped up in the loyalty program that they can't bring themselves to try different ships, different companies, different itineraries, new regions, etc., all because they get a BOGO dinner and free drinks in the evening. You're missing out, variety is spice of life and the past few years on Royal have had big cutbacks in the base offerings. If you really think Royal is superior to competitor lines like NCL, MSC, or Princess you are just trying to convince yourself. Do you go get the same exact car in the same color and features every 3 years for your entire life?

[rukkian]

Feel kinda bad for people who are so wrapped up in the loyalty program that they can't bring themselves to try different ships, different companies, different itineraries, new regions, etc., all because they get a BOGO dinner and free drinks in the evening. You're missing out, variety is spice of life and the past few years on Royal have had big cutbacks in the base offerings. If you really think Royal is superior to competitor lines like NCL, MSC, or Princess you are just trying to convince yourself. Do you go get the same exact car in the same color and features every 3 years for your entire life?

 

Some people do keep getting the same car every three years.

[mcatmcat]

Some people do keep getting the same car every three years.

 

 

 

I don’t lease

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

Some people do keep getting the same car every three years.

 

Some people do. They are comfortable and happy. But the point is they are not exploring alternatives. I guess the car analogy isn't as appropriate because certain vehicles are great for certain tasks and you wouldn't get a completely opposite vehicle just for the sake of it if it did not meet your needs.

 

Blind loyalty to a vacation company just strikes me as odd I guess. Knowing exactly what day they will serve lamb shank or you know the exact songs being played at the 70's show because it hasn't changed in 10+ years. At some point doesn't the repetition move from comforting to boring?

[rukkian]

Some people do. They are comfortable and happy. But the point is they are not exploring alternatives. I guess the car analogy isn't as appropriate because certain vehicles are great for certain tasks and you wouldn't get a completely opposite vehicle just for the sake of it if it did not meet your needs.

 

Blind loyalty to a vacation company just strikes me as odd I guess. Knowing exactly what day they will serve lamb shank or you know the exact songs being played at the 70's show because it hasn't changed in 10+ years. At some point doesn't the repetition move from comforting to boring?

 

Wasn't saying I agree with it, but I know plenty that do. Many people where I live are change averse. My old boss has had a red camry for her last 3 cars, and each of them was a pos with issues all the time, having to constantly be in the shop for one problem or another, but once she was ready for a new car, what did she do - go buy another red camry because that is what she knows.

 

I have really only been on 1 cruise (at least in the last 20 years) and while we are going to back to Royal, it is simply because we liked what we had last time, but wanted to go bigger since we are taking the kids. If you cruise multiple times a year, it might get repetitive, but for those that cruise much less often, while it may be some more of the same, there are usually enough differences to keep it interesting, and then while it may not be perfect, when you save for so long to go on a cruise, there is more risk in choosing another line. It is more safe to try something you may know what you are getting vs the unknown.

 

I know for us, it has nothing to do with loyalty, and more to do with seeming to have a very diverse product. The small ships still have more of an old school vibe, but the big ships seem (we will find out in a few months) to provide much more choices and activities, so looking forward to it.

 

Just offering a differing opinion and showing that it may not be completely black and white for everybody.

[sparks1093]

Some people do. They are comfortable and happy. But the point is they are not exploring alternatives. I guess the car analogy isn't as appropriate because certain vehicles are great for certain tasks and you wouldn't get a completely opposite vehicle just for the sake of it if it did not meet your needs.

 

Blind loyalty to a vacation company just strikes me as odd I guess. Knowing exactly what day they will serve lamb shank or you know the exact songs being played at the 70's show because it hasn't changed in 10+ years. At some point doesn't the repetition move from comforting to boring?

 

As long as they are happy isn't that all that matters? We are only now getting to a point where we can cruise every year and I suppose at some point it might get old but we'll see. With that said we do want to try all of the mainstream lines at least once and may try RCI next if their pricing remains competitive.

[ABoatNerd]

Excellent analysis Ano, CruisingNole:

 

RCL and the other mass lines rely on the famous marketing concept "obedient consumers".

 

The OP is an excellent example of being an obedient consumer even when expressing doubts about the service provider.

 

I have left Celebrity for many reasons, and had my first experience with Oceania this past September. It was excellent, the way cruising used to be. What was most interesting to me was the large number of first time Oceania guests on my voyage, all of whom were high loyalty tier mostly from Celebrity and Princess. These guests expressed their dislike of the dumbing down of the mass lines and had moved their business to Oceania and Viking in particular.

 

Granted, this is a small sampling to make an evaluation. However, Viking just announced many new builds and Azamara is acquiring a new ship - so the "premium" lines see expansion and it is logical to assume many of their new guests are fleeing the mass lines.

 

To the OP - being loyal to any business can be a detriment to your overall experience and pocket book - this is especially true in the past decade where businesses have eliminated any loyalty to the consumer.

 

I am observing far too much downgrading of the mass cruise line product offering being reported on the CC boards - starting about 2014 about the time the suites and beverage packages appeared. Before this date, the cruise lines provided a consistent product that you could rely on. Not now. It is constantly a rush to the bottom with cheap, cheap, cheap reductions being reported. Celebrity is one of the most pronounced violators of their former good product.

 

Today's consumer is generally looking for a "deal" meaning the $ cost is the only criteria to booking. This seems most true of the patrons of the mass cruise lines.

 

Fortunately there is considerable cruise product variety out there and I intend to try alot of it. I will likely not be on the mass cruise lines any more.

 

Happy sailing to all.

[sparks1093]

Excellent analysis Ano, CruisingNole:

 

RCL and the other mass lines rely on the famous marketing concept "obedient consumers".

 

The OP is an excellent example of being an obedient consumer even when expressing doubts about the service provider.

 

I have left Celebrity for many reasons, and had my first experience with Oceania this past September. It was excellent, the way cruising used to be. What was most interesting to me was the large number of first time Oceania guests on my voyage, all of whom were high loyalty tier mostly from Celebrity and Princess. These guests expressed their dislike of the dumbing down of the mass lines and had moved their business to Oceania and Viking in particular.

 

Granted, this is a small sampling to make an evaluation. However, Viking just announced many new builds and Azamara is acquiring a new ship - so the "premium" lines see expansion and it is logical to assume many of their new guests are fleeing the mass lines.

 

To the OP - being loyal to any business can be a detriment to your overall experience and pocket book - this is especially true in the past decade where businesses have eliminated any loyalty to the consumer.

 

I am observing far too much downgrading of the mass cruise line product offering being reported on the CC boards - starting about 2014 about the time the suites and beverage packages appeared. Before this date, the cruise lines provided a consistent product that you could rely on. Not now. It is constantly a rush to the bottom with cheap, cheap, cheap reductions being reported. Celebrity is one of the most pronounced violators of their former good product.

 

Today's consumer is generally looking for a "deal" meaning the $ cost is the only criteria to booking. This seems most true of the patrons of the mass cruise lines.

 

Fortunately there is considerable cruise product variety out there and I intend to try alot of it. I will likely not be on the mass cruise lines any more.

 

Happy sailing to all.

 

For me personally if I felt that I had to spend the kind of money Oceania and Viking charge to enjoy myself I'd stop cruising.

[LMaxwell]

As long as they are happy isn't that all that matters? We are only now getting to a point where we can cruise every year and I suppose at some point it might get old but we'll see. With that said we do want to try all of the mainstream lines at least once and may try RCI next if their pricing remains competitive.

 

The original post indicates displeasure, but unwillingness to go outside of what they are familiar with. If they aren't going to seek out different experiences they also can't expect the familiar to get better. Part of the issue is Royal's cutbacks. The other part of the issue is just plain familiarity. How many times can you visit the same place, listen to the same CD tell the same jokes, see the same show, have the menu memorized and never try anything new, etc.

 

I think it is part fallacy as well: I make great decisions and spend money wisely. I get the best value for my dollar because I am a sharp consumer. I always choose Royal Caribbean because I am loyal to them. Therefore Royal Caribbean is the best value anyone could choose and to choose otherwise indicates making a poor choice. Why spend money on another line if I know Royal is the best already? The fallacy there being that just because you choose something doesn't mean a competitor is lesser than. There is no contextual frame of reference in that case.

 

Each line offers variations on a theme. Loyalty is nearly worthless to a corporation. don't shortchange yourself on life experiences. Variety, not sameness.

[CruisingNole]

LMaxwell and ABoatNerd are spot on. I think many people don't realize that their obedience and willingness to accept a mediocre product in exchange for "perks" does nothing but hurt us all.

[Biker19]

At some point doesn't the repetition move from comforting to boring?

I wonder how Super Mario would answer that.

 

P.S. During his speech at the Top Tier event last week, he mentioned ship design, crew and C&A perks as the reason he is loyal to Royal.