Carnival Legend Bloodbath Brawl - more bad media coverage for cruising

[VK3DQ]

If the incidents were covered by the ships CCTV cameras they can be charged with Affray, with that offence you don’t need a victim. The CCTV footage would most likely be enough for a conviction.

 

 

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Conviction in what court please?? I think Carnival Legend is registered in Malta

 

Regards

John

[Tigerlily75]

Andy if this group had been bothering me and my family (or I witnessed them bothering others), I'd be lining up to give a statement. Why do you think people wouldn't be willing? I'd be relieved to see some justice and karma!

[VK3DQ]

Andy if this group had been bothering me and my family (or I witnessed them bothering others), I'd be lining up to give a statement. Why do you think people wouldn't be willing? I'd be relieved to see some justice and karma!

 

The only sanction the ship is able to enforce is to put them ashore and refuse to carry them again , whilst on board the ship the "Bogans" are subject to the laws of the flag state in this case Malta.

 

Regards

 

John

[Tigerlily75]

Conviction in what court please?? I think Carnival Legend is registered in Malta

 

Regards

John

 

The Pacific Explorer is registered in the UK, yet the woman involved in that brawl was arrested and charged in Sydney. There must be something that covers cruise ships, I doubt you can just go on board and murder someone and not face charges just because the ship is registered elsewhere. That would be a bit of a problem!!

[VK3DQ]

The Pacific Explorer is registered in the UK, yet the woman involved in that brawl was arrested and charged in Sydney. There must be something that covers cruise ships, I doubt you can just go on board and murder someone and not face charges just because the ship is registered elsewhere. That would be a bit of a problem!!

 

Depends if the ship was in territorial waters .. generally accepted a 12 miles but in most cases actually is 3 miles

 

That why the ship waited to call the Australian Police so they had some authority, and I think you will find that the police only boarded the ship at the request of the ships master , I would be very interested to see exactly what these people get charged with and in what court

 

 

I think also if a ship is making a domestic leg between two Australian ports the laws are different but on international passage its the flag state that is the authority and I'm sure Malta does not allow fights on vessels on its registry

 

Regards

 

John

Edited February 16, 2018 by VK3DQ

[NSWP]

If the incidents were covered by the ships CCTV cameras they can be charged with Affray, with that offence you don’t need a victim. The CCTV footage would most likely be enough for a conviction.

 

 

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True, depends how strong the cruise line want to be on this.:o I am tipping no charges.

[VK3DQ]

True, depends how strong the cruise line want to be on this.:o I am tipping no charges.

 

Throw them off and forget them :evilsmile:

 

 

Yes I agree anything else is just too hard

 

Regards

 

John

[Andyinmacksville]

Conviction in what court please?? I think Carnival Legend is registered in Malta

 

 

 

Regards

 

John

 

 

 

Check out the Crimes at Sea Act 2000, it is somewhat dependant on where at sea the offence occurred.

 

Once you dig through it though crime on a cruise ship bound for an Australian port will fall within Australian jurisdiction regardless of citizenship, subject to Attorney General permission/consultation with flag state.

 

For example a woman removed from the P&O ship last week was charged by NSW police for offences occurring on the ship.

 

 

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[NSWP]

The ship is still at anchor @ Eden, NSW. Will be a late arrival into Melbourne, so some more cranky passengers.:(:o

[Tigerlily75]

Depends if the ship was in territorial waters .. generally accepted a 12 miles but in most cases actually is 3 miles

 

That why the ship waited to call the Australian Police so they had some authority, and I think you will find that the police only boarded the ship at the request of the ships master , I would be very interested to see exactly what these people get charged with and in what court

 

 

I think also if a ship is making a domestic leg between two Australian ports the laws are different but on international passage its the flag state that is the authority and I'm sure Malta does not allow fights on vessels on its registry

 

Regards

 

John

 

Google tells me it's complicated, but in a nutshell, if a crime is committed against or by an Australian citizen, and the ship it's outside Australian waters, they can apply for jurisdiction over the crime under various codes

[The_Big_M]

Blood was spilled there. It's right that it was reported in the media.

[NSWP]

Google tells me it's complicated, but in a nutshell, if a crime is committed against or by an Australian citizen, and the ship it's outside Australian waters, they can apply for jurisdiction over the crime under various codes

 

The Maltese Attorney General might have already given that judicial authority to NSW Police via Carnival Cruise Line and the Captain of Carnival Legend. Interesting times.

 

What a sad day for the cruise industry.:o

[VK3DQ]

Check out the Crimes at Sea Act 2000, it is somewhat dependant on where at sea the offence occurred.

 

Once you dig through it though crime on a cruise ship bound for an Australian port will fall within Australian jurisdiction regardless of citizenship, subject to Attorney General permission/consultation with flag state.

 

 

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So within 12 miles we are still in Australia , and if everyone agrees the OZ courts can hear the case however if the flag state objects I suggest we are in for a trip to Malta , which is all too hard for a bunch of bogans ,, nothing will come of it ...:halo:

 

 

its been an issue for 200 years and more at sea , but lets remember that the Ships Master IE "Master Before God" is the supreme authority at sea , and if he suggests that a touch of the cane is a good cure for bad behavior then so it is ....

 

now would that make the headlines .. "Carnival Bogans get six of the best!!"

 

 

Regards

 

John

[NSWP]

So within 12 miles we are still in Australia , and if everyone agrees the OZ courts can hear the case however if the flag state objects I suggest we are in for a trip to Malta , which is all too hard for a bunch of bogans ,, nothing will come of it ...:halo:

 

 

its been an issue for 200 years and more at sea , but lets remember that the Ships Master IE "Master Before God" is the supreme authority at sea , and if he suggests that a touch of the cane is a good cure for bad behavior then so it is ....

 

now would that make the headlines .. "Carnival Bogans get six of the best!!"

 

 

Regards

 

John

 

I would make them walk the plank John. Plenty of hungry sharks down Eden way.:evilsmile:

[VK3DQ]

I would make them walk the plank John. Plenty of hungry sharks down Eden way.:evilsmile:

 

Yes but then the cruise line will get done for discharging toxic waste in a Marine National Park

 

 

:halo:

[Tigerlily75]

Well at the very least, they'll have the inconvenience of getting themselves home from Eden. It's better than nothing!

[By The Bay]

After watching the video, I am shocked by the behavior, not only of some passengers but the repeated kicking of the two men on the floor and threatening to punch a women by the security staff.

[Andyinmacksville]

True, depends how strong the cruise line want to be on this.:o I am tipping no charges.

 

 

 

Quite possibly but there is another provision in the Criminal Code Act 1995 relating to intentionally or recklessly causing serious harm to an Australian citizen or resident of Australia which applies regardless of where the crime occurred.

 

Basically there are numerous ways to skin a cat, while these charming grubs will no doubt be banned from Carnival etc. A better result would be their passports being revoked due to poor character.

 

 

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[Esilef]

I’m booked on that ship to the Pacific islands next January. Wondering if I should stick with cruising with Royal Caribbean?

[Andyinmacksville]

After watching the video, I am shocked by the behavior, not only of some passengers but the repeated kicking of the two men on the floor and threatening to punch a women by the security staff.

 

 

 

That’s the problem with the media, you watched a 30 second clip of a much larger incident.

 

I recall an incident awhile back a video of a woman being dealt with quite firmly by police which was selectively edited which resulted in quite a bit of sympathy for the woman, at least until another clip surface showing the whole story.

 

I’m also perplex as to why you make special mention of the woman, a violent woman is just as capable of causing significant injury as a man, ultimately whether security or police the goal is to protect other people and in doing that you may have to use a necessary level of force. While it might not look good on video it’s far better than letting these grubs rampage through the ship assaulting and scaring people.

 

Looking at the crew member kicking, he doesn’t look to be security, as such he wouldn’t have training and when survival mode hits you do what ever it takes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[NSWP]

Quite possibly but there is another provision in the Criminal Code Act 1995 relating to intentionally or recklessly causing serious harm to an Australian citizen or resident of Australia which applies regardless of where the crime occurred.

 

Basically there are numerous ways to skin a cat, while these charming grubs will no doubt be banned from Carnival etc. A better result would be their passports being revoked due to poor character.

 

 

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That's if they are all Australian Passport Holders.:evilsmile:

[NSWP]

I’m booked on that ship to the Pacific islands next January. Wondering if I should stick with cruising with Royal Caribbean?

 

I think RCI. :halo:

[GUT2407]

I’d have thought, without spending much time looking at it that the Crimes at Sea Act covers it nicely

 

Sec 6

(2) The substantive criminal law of the Jervis Bay Territory, as in force from time to time, applies at sea outside the adjacent area to a criminal act:

(a) of an Australian citizen (other than a member of the crew) on a foreign ship; or

(b) of an Australian citizen (other than a member of the crew) in the course of activities controlled from a foreign ship; or

© of an Australian citizen who has abandoned, or temporarily left, a foreign ship and has not returned to land.

(3) The substantive criminal law of the Jervis Bay Territory, as in force from time to time, is taken to have applied at sea outside the adjacent area to a criminal act:

(a) on a foreign ship; or

(b) in the course of activities controlled from a foreign ship; or

© of a person who has abandoned, or temporarily left, a foreign ship and has not returned to land;

if the first country at which the ship calls, or the person lands, after the criminal act, is Australia or an external territory of Australia.

[Esilef]

I think RCI. :halo:

 

I agree. 😊

[Docker123]

23 off loaded, including 4 arrested.

 

 

 

As to the video I watched, apparent kicking of people was done by crew in white uniforms as well as at least 1 with a security tee shirt.