les37b Posted February 18, 2018 #301 Share Posted February 18, 2018 So, what if you or a family member was in that potentially lethal hold? How would you want them to help you? Just asking By their employers spending a bit of their profits on training their staff on how to tackle unruly people and deal with it properly. I’m pretty sure a few pressure point pinches to get them release is preferable to assault. I’m fairly sure everyone on the forum would be singing the praises of the staff for doing so, though I’ve read enough to believe any excuse for s bit of violence is good enough so maybe not everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster Posted February 18, 2018 #302 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) If I was an Australian government official, I would want an investigation into this. The cost of Australian governmental resources used to supplement Carnival's apparent lack of proper onboard security would be a legitimate concern. Edited February 18, 2018 by coaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango55 Posted February 18, 2018 #303 Share Posted February 18, 2018 again check out msn.com news .the Washington post has a lot better view about what went on.it wasn't just one incident.a lot more info than the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therk Posted February 18, 2018 #304 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Really bad situation with Carnival looking pretty bad after. However the most worrying part for me is the inability and general ineptitude of security to handle a bunch of drunk bogans. Its just a matter of time until the terrorist types click and say hmmm, a 3000 person vessel with a dozen unarmed, untrained security guards in the middle of nowhere. Hazard waiting to happen, I just hope I'm not on that ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster Posted February 18, 2018 #305 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Carnival loyalists need to step in here now. It is getting difficult for those of us who try to see mass market cruise lines being very similar and not trying to be so condescending to those who choose Carnival over other mass market cruise lines. Edited February 18, 2018 by coaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bra_BE2014 Posted February 18, 2018 #306 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Really bad situation with Carnival looking pretty bad after. However the most worrying part for me is the inability and general ineptitude of security to handle a bunch of drunk bogans. Its just a matter of time until the terrorist types click and say hmmm, a 3000 person vessel with a dozen unarmed, untrained security guards in the middle of nowhere. Hazard waiting to happen, I just hope I'm not on that ship. I love cruising but I indeed am also scared it is just a matter of time before ship’s poor security encourage terrorists attacks. God help us. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkstfan Posted February 18, 2018 #307 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Correct but the super cheap fares are attracting certain types of people. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Not every person of limited means taking their dream vacation spends their time getting drunk and brawling. I've seen people in premium seating areas at sports events where the tickets are $500 each act that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadandugly Posted February 18, 2018 #308 Share Posted February 18, 2018 ”... but I can think of no reasonable excuse for a security guard to kick someone when they're already down on the ground. I think the security were totally justified in laying the boot to the perpetrators, providing they were kicking the right combatant. If you read the news story linked posted a few posts up, guests were saying this family of 20 was making a habit of starting fights the entire cruise. The article further states that security sought it necessary to follow the around due to their fighting and harassing other guests. As another poster pointed out, security did not have the necessary equipment to deal with such a situation (tasers, stun weapons, or anything more than a notepad and pencil). They had no alternative other than enter the melee to protect other guests, and it would have been foolish for 5’2” Filipino security guards to engage in fisticuffs with those goons. Quite frankly, though, most of the kicks were pretty wimpy. They should have launched some good authoritative kicks to the head given the size, history and combativeness of the hooligans. I hope Carnival develops some proper training programs out of this. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster Posted February 18, 2018 #309 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I believe it has been stated here before from posters with active or past law enforcement experience. They do not agree that kicks to a human being on a floor is an acceptable response. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.H Posted February 18, 2018 #310 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I love cruising but I indeed am also scared it is just a matter of time before ship’s poor security encourage terrorists attacks. God help us. Sent from my iPhone using Forums I hope not; that is a very scary thought. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.H Posted February 18, 2018 #311 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I think the security were totally justified in laying the boot to the perpetrators, providing they were kicking the right combatant. If you read the news story linked posted a few posts up, guests were saying this family of 20 was making a habit of starting fights the entire cruise. The article further states that security sought it necessary to follow the around due to their fighting and harassing other guests. As another poster pointed out, security did not have the necessary equipment to deal with such a situation (tasers, stun weapons, or anything more than a notepad and pencil). They had no alternative other than enter the melee to protect other guests, and it would have been foolish for 5’2” Filipino security guards to engage in fisticuffs with those goons. Quite frankly, though, most of the kicks were pretty wimpy. They should have launched some good authoritative kicks to the head given the size, history and combativeness of the hooligans. I hope Carnival develops some proper training programs out of this. Sent from my iPad using Forums If they had been walking around doing this the whole cruise; the why weren’t they kicked of the ship while in port, or sitting in the brig? Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertoaster Posted February 18, 2018 #312 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The security staff appears out numbered in this case. I doubt any cruise line has the on board security staff to deal with 20+ thugs. Most ship’s staff security to deal with the occasional confrontation between one or two passengers. You can staff ships with a large squad of well trained security guards on every ship, but it will be reflected in your cruise fare. You would also have to resigned ships with larger detention facilities. I have been on many cruises, and never seen anything like this incident. It is a cost benefit decision. Are passengers willing to pay more for a large security presence that is needed one out of a thousand cruises, or is current security staffing sufficient in most instances? Many passengers might answer they want ample security and no fare increase. However, the world does not work that way. I am fine with current security arrangements on cruise lines. This incident is clearly an abboration, and should not be the basis for setting security protocol on all future sailings Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare KmomChicago Posted February 18, 2018 #313 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Snoody much?! Those lowered prices have afforded my family to expand our vacation options and also allow for more that just one trip a year. Now that more schools are going to a balanced calendar with a 2 week Spring Break and a week long Fall Break, we have 3 decent chances for getaways. So maybe instead of referring to us frugal conscious consumers as “Ferals” you should remember that my family’s money spends just as well as yours. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Thanks for this. I’m cheap and at times in my life I’ve also been poor but in 51 years I’ve never been violent. It’s poor logic to assume so. Anyway I have known plenty of people who spend $$ they can’t really afford so charging more just means more debt for them that they are not managing very well. Furthermore some moneyed people get it through inheritance or questionable means. Hardly guarantees a perfect class of humanity. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmBear Posted February 18, 2018 #314 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Thanks for this. I’m cheap and at times in my life I’ve also been poor but in 51 years I’ve never been violent. It’s poor logic to assume so. Anyway I have known plenty of people who spend $$ they can’t really afford so charging more just means more debt for them that they are not managing very well. Furthermore some moneyed people get it through inheritance or questionable means. Hardly guarantees a perfect class of humanity. Sent from my iPhone using Forums I don't think this was a money issue, it was a 'attitude' issue! A large group who thought because they were a large group could do/say/act anyway they wanted! 99.9% of large groups would never think of acting like this, cause its not normal, its mentally ill! From the reporting, this large group had an 'attitude', as those on the ship stated, they were looking for trouble from day one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookyfudge Posted February 18, 2018 #315 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Security behavior was abysmal. https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/02/16/06/29/carnival-legend-cruise-passengers-violent-brawl I wonder if carnival does any training for security personnel, or do they higher thugs off the street? Not sure if I want to do my Australian cruise with them in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speirbhean.pa Posted February 18, 2018 #316 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keys2Heaven Posted February 18, 2018 #317 Share Posted February 18, 2018 By their employers spending a bit of their profits on training their staff on how to tackle unruly people and deal with it properly. I’m pretty sure a few pressure point pinches to get them release is preferable to assault. I’m fairly sure everyone on the forum would be singing the praises of the staff for doing so, though I’ve read enough to believe any excuse for s bit of violence is good enough so maybe not everyone. It's too bad they were let on in the first place. I know that the manifest isn't checked to see if anyone onboard has warrants out against them until after the ship sails. So, if we have to do an online check in prior to showing up at the port, you mean the authorities don't have some way to, I don't know, quick scan the passenger list to see if anyone might be a potential issue? I can't imagine this family not having a rap sheet of some kind already. It would have been nice for them to have been flagged prior and then denied boarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jimbo5544 Posted February 18, 2018 #318 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I wonder if carnival does any training for security personnel, or do they higher thugs off the street? Not sure if I want to do my Australian cruise with them in 2019. Wow, you have hit on the answer....cancel the cruise that will show them Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stateroom_Sailor Posted February 18, 2018 #319 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) Well this is a great precedent to set for potential copycats. You can wreak havoc for up to 9 days, threatening, punching, choking, and throwing out ethnic slurs like "Australian Dogs"? Without consequence or restraint??? And hey, when you finally take it too far, security will finish the job, by slapping and punching passengers, to get those pesky cameras away. This will be considered by some, 15 minutes of fame and fun: Edited February 18, 2018 by Stateroom_Sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerman2 Posted February 18, 2018 #320 Share Posted February 18, 2018 I believe it has been stated here before from posters with active or past law enforcement experience. They do not agree that kicks to a human being on a floor is an acceptable response. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk They may not agree, but there have been videos of them doing exactly that or worse. Most law enforcement are very, very good, however even they have bad apples that kick, hit with batons, etc. while the perpetrator is down. The very small in stature security certainly wasn't going to subdue the morons. Is it poor training and lack of means YES probably. Let's put the blame where it belongs and THAT is with the trouble makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Out2C Posted February 18, 2018 #321 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The security staff appears out numbered in this case. I doubt any cruise line has the on board security staff to deal with 20+ thugs. Most ship’s staff security to deal with the occasional confrontation between one or two passengers. You can staff ships with a large squad of well trained security guards on every ship, but it will be reflected in your cruise fare. You would also have to resigned ships with larger detention facilities. I have been on many cruises, and never seen anything like this incident. It is a cost benefit decision. Are passengers willing to pay more for a large security presence that is needed one out of a thousand cruises, or is current security staffing sufficient in most instances? Many passengers might answer they want ample security and no fare increase. However, the world does not work that way. I am fine with current security arrangements on cruise lines. This incident is clearly an abboration, and should not be the basis for setting security protocol on all future sailings Sent from my iPad using Forums One word, DEPUTIZE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare jean87510 Posted February 18, 2018 #322 Share Posted February 18, 2018 What exactly was crew supposed to do instead of kicking someone to get them off of someone? What if they had them in a chokehold and that was the only way to get them off? What would you do? Suppose that person was getting strangled? What then? This was an extreme circumstance. If that was me being pinned by some psychotic drunk i would thank the crew members. Some of these reactions about the crew are ridiculous. I agree they should have all been removed at the first port for being a danger. But since they weren't and it was out of control the crew did the best they could. Sent from my SM-G955U using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidecat Posted February 18, 2018 #323 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The security staff appears out numbered in this case. I doubt any cruise line has the on board security staff to deal with 20+ thugs. Most ship’s staff security to deal with the occasional confrontation between one or two passengers. You can staff ships with a large squad of well trained security guards on every ship, but it will be reflected in your cruise fare. You would also have to resigned ships with larger detention facilities. I have been on many cruises, and never seen anything like this incident. It is a cost benefit decision. Are passengers willing to pay more for a large security presence that is needed one out of a thousand cruises, or is current security staffing sufficient in most instances? Many passengers might answer they want ample security and no fare increase. However, the world does not work that way. I am fine with current security arrangements on cruise lines. This incident is clearly an abboration, and should not be the basis for setting security protocol on all future sailings If I were in management at Carnival, I’d look for a way to make a small public area lockable in case the need to detain a large group ever arose again. For the ships with conference rooms, this would probably be the easiest, but for those without, something like Ocean Plaza could be redesigned to be closed off (like the gates that close off stores in the mall). Obviously the goal is still to put them off at first opportunity, but in the event that wasn’t possible, it would at least buy some time to arrange some interior cabins to sequester them until they could be put off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmBear Posted February 18, 2018 #324 Share Posted February 18, 2018 If I were in management at Carnival, I’d look for a way to make a small public area lockable in case the need to detain a large group ever arose again. For the ships with conference rooms, this would probably be the easiest, but for those without, something like Ocean Plaza could be redesigned to be closed off (like the gates that close off stores in the mall). Obviously the goal is still to put them off at first opportunity, but in the event that wasn’t possible, it would at least buy some time to arrange some interior cabins to sequester them until they could be put off. Agree! Since most cruises(other then trans-ocean) are within 1 day of land, the reported 3 days of violence would seem totally unacceptable for most cruisers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare APDMOM Posted February 18, 2018 #325 Share Posted February 18, 2018 It's too bad they were let on in the first place. I know that the manifest isn't checked to see if anyone onboard has warrants out against them until after the ship sails. Very interesting. Where did you get this information? I thought online check in is closed 72 hours before the ship sails so that the manifest can be provided to authorities, including homeland security in the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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