Automatic Gratuities

[AE_Collector]

PLEASE just find a way to include it in the total cruise price. Or at the very least make cancelling gratuities much more difficult possibly coming to a bit of a reduction if one department didn’t provide the level of service expected. It is rediculous to just remove a passengers gratuity requirements completely.

 

Very slowly I believe more and more people are cancelling or reducing gratuities because of the increases lately and because “if he dies it then I’m doing it too” mentality. It makes me sick that people of a first world country would be so cheap and self centred to not pay the crew properly.

 

Further, the cruise lines have to account for everything, they aren’t adding it to their profit, they arent funding the officers retirement, it is divided amongst very hard working crew who still aren’t getting rich even if everyone does pay their share of gratuities. Why the gratuity sharing over all ships in the fleet irks passengers so much is beyond me. Unless you honestly believe that you tip much more than the average, the crew who serve you are likely gaining, not losing through this sharing of gratuities. Get over it!

[NSWP]

PLEASE just find a way to include it in the total cruise price. Or at the very least make cancelling gratuities much more difficult possibly coming to a bit of a reduction if one department didn’t provide the level of service expected. It is rediculous to just remove a passengers gratuity requirements completely.

 

Very slowly I believe more and more people are cancelling or reducing gratuities because of the increases lately and because “if he dies it then I’m doing it too” mentality. It makes me sick that people of a first world country would be so cheap and self centred to not pay the crew properly.

 

Further, the cruise lines have to account for everything, they aren’t adding it to their profit, they arent funding the officers retirement, it is divided amongst very hard working crew who still aren’t getting rich even if everyone does pay their share of gratuities. Why the gratuity sharing over all ships in the fleet irks passengers so much is beyond me. Unless you honestly believe that you tip much more than the average, the crew who serve you are likely gaining, not losing through this sharing of gratuities. Get over it!

 

If Princess can include non negotiable gratuities for its Aussie based ships, Sea Princess, Sun Princess and Golden Princess, then they can do it for their fleet world wide, stop any arguments and negate the tipping threads on CC.:halo::')

 

What irks me too is that so many pax still think they can remove their Auto Grats, give a few bucks cash out to their cabin and MDR Stewards and they can keep it, Wrong !!! They have to hand it into their Hotel Supervisor or Head Waiter for the tipping pool. Staff can only keep it if the full Grats are kept on.

[voljeep]

To some degree yes. According to US accounting law, tips distributed fully to employees are neither income nor expense to the corporation as long as they meet the accounting rules for doing so (must be optional, must be fully distributed to employees, etc.). Basically they pass outside of the accounting system as far as income and expense is concerned. However, they are still subject to audit and financial reporting. The company must maintain an sufficient accounting system to demonstrate that they are in compliance with the laws.. This means that they must track both the receipts and the distribution. So they are not off the books as far as an audited tracking system.

 

The employees themselves are responsible for paying their taxes based upon the laws of their country. In some cases tips are considered to be income and taxed the same as wages, in other countries they are treated differently. The biggest difference in treatment is often related to retirement systems. In some countries the employees pay a percentage of both wages and tips into the national retirement systems, in other countries such contributions are not required for tips.

 

 

strange, as boxes 1, 5, & 7 on the W-2 specifically mentions tips - U.S. of course..:confused:

[saladdin]

I do not tip, anywhere. My contract is with the business owner.

[AE_Collector]

I do not tip, anywhere. My contract is with the business owner.

 

Yet oddly Cuise Citic brands you as a “Cool Cruiser”! Go figure.

 

The contract with the business in this case states that gratuities will be added to your bill so cancelling them is arguably breaking your contract.

 

Sorry....not cool.

[Ngamtns706]

If you just give you room steward a 20 for example (on top of paying regular gratuities) can they keep it? Princess

[neverbeenhere]

If you just give you room steward a 20 for example (on top of paying regular gratuities) can they keep it? Princess

 

Yes.

[Thrak]

If you just give you room steward a 20 for example (on top of paying regular gratuities) can they keep it? Princess

 

Yes, however it should be in an envelope (there are a stack of tip envelopes on the customer service counter) with the steward's name, your name, and your cabin number. The steward is supposed to then turn in the envelope with the tip. If the gratuities have been left in place the steward will get the envelope back and keeps the tip. Failure to disclose a tip or turn it in is cause for disciplinary action. Do people simply hand out tips to their steward in cash? Of course they do. Do all stewards report such tips. Likely not - especially if there are no witnesses. Do some still turn the tip over to management? I think they do as they don't want to jeopardize their job.

[voljeep]

I'm sure it is grounds for dismissal also, but, has any Princess crew member, specifically a cabin steward, revealed how much per day, on average, they get from the automatic grat?

 

now that I would like to know - not the Princess version which is more closely guarded than the herb/spice mix at KFC

[RDC1]

If Princess can include non negotiable gratuities for its Aussie based ships, Sea Princess, Sun Princess and Golden Princess, then they can do it for their fleet world wide, stop any arguments and negate the tipping threads on CC.:halo::')

 

What irks me too is that so many pax still think they can remove their Auto Grats, give a few bucks cash out to their cabin and MDR Stewards and they can keep it, Wrong !!! They have to hand it into their Hotel Supervisor or Head Waiter for the tipping pool. Staff can only keep it if the full Grats are kept on.

 

Actually they cannot the Aussie based ships, as with P&O Australia are under control of an Australian subsidiary and as such they can include gratuities in the fare there without impacting the tip status for the rest of fleet. Just as in the UK there is a separate entity for P&O UK. Fairly complex corporate structure. It is also why you often see different rules for drink packages on the Australian based ships, compared to those that are just there for the season and them leave for the US.

 

A number of years ago there was a Australian Commission on cruise ship safety after an alcohol related death of a passenger that resulted in changes on Australian based ships that were agreed to by Carnival Australia and the related CCL brands.

[RDC1]

strange, as boxes 1, 5, & 7 on the W-2 specifically mentions tips - U.S. of course..:confused:

 

US if you are employer based in the US you do have to report tips to the IRS, but they are still not in their income and expense numbers, they are tracked and reported outside of the companies own financials. That is wht they are a separate category in the W2 and not lumped under wages. As long as the rules are followed.

 

You did actually read where I said that under US reporting laws they do have to track and audit tip receipts and distribution. If a company is a US company and have to follow tax laws as well as reporting laws then that information is also provided to the IRS, it is still not included in the companies revenue or expense numbers.

 

Last time I checked very few (as in none) of the non-officer level, non-contractor (spa, stores ,entertainment, etc.) ship based employees are US residents. Therefore US tax law is pretty much a non-issue for ship based employees. Employees on land in the US get W-2's. Those working off shore for a non-US company probably not, though they would have to report their income, including tips.

[voljeep]

US if you are employer based in the US you do have to report tips to the IRS, but they are still not in their income and expense numbers, they are tracked and reported outside of the companies own financials. That is wht they are a separate category in the W2 and not lumped under wages. As long as the rules are followed.

 

You did actually read where I said that under US reporting laws they do have to track and audit tip receipts and distribution. If a company is a US company and have to follow tax laws as well as reporting laws then that information is also provided to the IRS, it is still not included in the companies revenue or expense numbers.

 

Last time I checked very few (as in none) of the non-officer level, non-contractor (spa, stores ,entertainment, etc.) ship based employees are US residents. Therefore US tax law is pretty much a non-issue for ship based employees. Employees on land in the US get W-2's. Those working off shore for a non-US company probably not, though they would have to report their income, including tips.

 

On the U.S W-2 - tips are lumped with wages - look at a w-2, box 1,5 & 7

[neverbeenhere]

. If we are going to do a payroll accounting class, this will be fun.

 

 

Might I suggest that we could have a course in sales tax accounting next.

[RDC1]

On the U.S W-2 - tips are lumped with wages - look at a w-2, box 1,5 & 7

 

In the US tips and wages are treated the same for both income tax purposes and retirement system purposes. So lumping them together would make sense for income calculations for US taxes. They are still tracked independently by companies as long as the SEC reporting rules are met.

 

Not the same in other countries around the world, especially the countries were the workers in the system come from. Last time I looked up the data in the Philippines tips are taxed similar to wages under their income tax system, however contributions to the retirement system is based upon wages and does not include tips. Thus the tips classifications reduces the amount they have to pay into their social security system(employee contribution 3.39%, employer contribution 7.79%) a cruise ship employee would probably have to pay both sides, just as a self employed person in the US, so the classification of tips would save them approx 11% of their tip income.

 

If you are a US citizen working for a US based cruise line it turns out they do report to the IRS and withhold taxes. Of course the US is one of the few countries with clout to force foreign banks to report on accounts held by US citizens.

[RDC1]

��. If we are going to do a payroll accounting class, this will be fun.

 

 

Might I suggest that we could have a course in sales tax accounting next.

 

Only where it impact ship prices in various ports. ;););):D:D;)Otherwise it would be out of scope.

 

Though a discussion of all of the different combinations of sales tax jurisdictions in the US can be informative for those visiting to the US for the first time.

 

E&Y publishes a very good world wide tax guide when it comes to various tax regimes and retirement systems.

[voljeep]

foreign income exclusion and physical presence test may come into play for U.S. citizens working on cruise ships, exclusive of the ncl ship based in Hawaii...

[SteveH2508]

<snip>Of course the US is one of the few countries with clout to force foreign banks to report on accounts held by US citizens.

 

The possibly unintended consequence of this is that ex-pat US citizens cannot now access most financial products in their country of residence. Most UK financial institutions who have any dealings within the US, will not take investments from US citizens because of the hassle of the US reporting requirements (I know - DW (US/UK dual nationality) is having real problems finding any UK institutions who will take investments).

[RDC1]

foreign income exclusion and physical presence test may come into play for U.S. citizens working on cruise ships, exclusive of the ncl ship based in Hawaii...

 

Maybe, but the discussion is about the tip system, not taxes on US residents.

 

You have very very few US citizens working on Princess ships, The few that are tend to be entertainers, contract employees, or officer ranked individuals. As such outside of the scope of the discussion about tips.

 

You might have a few come out from land based jobs in the US to do tasks as part of their land based job, but all of income would still be considered to be land based and none would be in the tip system.

[NSWP]

If you just give you room steward a 20 for example (on top of paying regular gratuities) can they keep it? Princess

 

Certainly.:halo:

[RDC1]

The possibly unintended consequence of this is that ex-pat US citizens cannot now access most financial products in their country of residence. Most UK financial institutions who have any dealings within the US, will not take investments from US citizens because of the hassle of the US reporting requirements (I know - DW (US/UK dual nationality) is having real problems finding any UK institutions who will take investments).

 

I tried to set up a bank account in New Zealand a couple of years bank when we were making frequent trips there (my wife's mother is from New Zealand). They would not do it because we are US citizens and they did not want to deal with the reporting requirements.

[Lucky TGO]

Break out the popcorn, its going to be a full length movie.:cool::rolleyes:

 

Would you like some butter with your popcorn :D? It’s over 70 post now with the same question and the same answer from the same people time after time over and over again and again. :rolleyes:

Tony

[NSWP]

Would you like some butter with your popcorn :D? It’s over 70 post now with the same question and the same answer from the same people time after time over and over again and again. :rolleyes:

Tony

 

No butter with the popcorn thanks Tony, as you would have read on CC there are allegations that butter is now rationed on Princess to 2 pats pp per diem. I would rather it on my toast. lol.:')

 

Princess, get those auto tips included in cruise fare then we can all chillax. :halo:

[RDC1]

Would you like some butter with your popcorn :D? It’s over 70 post now with the same question and the same answer from the same people time after time over and over again and again. :rolleyes:

Tony

 

I guess we could make up different answers. While one can give the reasons for it, you are probably not going to see a change as long as the major main stream lines management is US based and majority of their revenue comes from US passengers since the US has a culture where things are sold at a base price and tips and taxes are add on. Unlike those countries that have VAT and no tips where all is included in the sale price.

Edited May 5, 2018 by RDC1

[caribill]

Actually they cannot the Aussie based ships, as with P&O Australia are under control of an Australian subsidiary and as such they can include gratuities in the fare there without impacting the tip status for the rest of fleet. Just as in the UK there is a separate entity for P&O UK. Fairly complex corporate structure. It is also why you often see different rules for drink packages on the Australian based ships, compared to those that are just there for the season and them leave for the US.

 

 

With the Australia laws, all cruise companies that operate there do so under the same rules unlike in, for example, the USA where if Princess included tips in the pricing they would be at a disadvantage with other companies advertising prices that would be lower and not including tips.

 

A few years ago Princess in the USA did try to include all fees/taxes (but not gratuities) in the price saying "what you see is what you pay." This only lasted two or three months. I assume it was because the competition showed prices (without all taxes/fees) hundres of $$$ less for equivalent voyages.

[caribill]

Would you like some butter with your popcorn :D? It’s over 70 post now with the same question and the same answer from the same people time after time over and over again and again. :rolleyes:

Tony

 

And the same people coming back to read the new posts in the thread?