cruzeluver Posted May 25, 2018 #101 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Lifeguards are good things, and their absence always struck me as a huge liability. Not sure I would define their absence as a "huge liability". Less than 1% of 1% of folks cruising the globe have drowned in a cruise ship pool. Odds are indescribably in your favor that you will not drown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodtime Cruizin Posted May 25, 2018 #102 Share Posted May 25, 2018 The falling versus jumping has been covered. So a drunk adult who stumbles, falls, and drowns is OK with you? Depends. What were they drinkng? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare orville99 Posted May 25, 2018 #103 Share Posted May 25, 2018 From BMJ Journal Injury Prevention (2004): "These studies suggest that drowning is the overwhelming cause of death associated with recreational aquatic activity, that alcohol is detected in the blood of about 30%–70% persons who drown in association with recreational aquatic activity, and that alcohol probably contributes to between 10% and 30% of all recreational drowning deaths." As a certified open water lifeguard and lifeguard instructor, training to detect alcohol impairment is a standard component of lifeguard training both for pools, open water, and surf certifications. The unfortunate reality is that more drunks drown than kids. I, for one, am very happy to see professional lifeguards on RCL ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_G Posted May 25, 2018 #104 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I'm a 1%er. They give us giant sized cakes & pies. They built us slides. They put ice rinks on the ships. They hung mega HD screens. Why is anyone questioning the addition of LGs? Maybe the complainers would be happier if they were included in the tipping pool...oh wait, probably not. :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interstate Posted May 25, 2018 #105 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Yes lifeguards save lives when needed. Let us consider the displaced worker and increased fare arguments: 1. Limited crew berths and lifeboat capacity put a cap on how many crew can be hired. The addition of lifeguards may displace some crew and force departments to work harder, reducing efficiency and service. 2. Even if no displacement occurs, lifeguards have to be paid and fed which will raise cruise fares a/o lower quality. Fairly self-explantory; the extra $400/wk/LG and their cost of consumables has to come from somewhere either in higher fares or lower quality of products. Counter 1. An extra minute for a drink means nothing nor do five-10mins added for supper vis-a-vis a life. C2. The continual, but microscopic, cost of lifeguards will never add up to the tangible cost of even 1 liable death. Nevermind the intangible costs if liable deaths keep occuring. A full compliment of lifeguards adds less than a dollar per paying passenger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRF Posted May 26, 2018 #106 Share Posted May 26, 2018 2 is a little off. If not a lifeguard, some other staff would be in that berth and eating the food. So the only cost difference is they difference in pay between who they displace and their salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eslader Posted May 29, 2018 #107 Share Posted May 29, 2018 So a drunk adult who stumbles, falls, and drowns is OK with you? You're putting words into what I say that aren't there. Of course I'm not OK, or happy, or any other pejorative emotion you wish to assign to me, when someone drowns. That doesn't mean that I think it prudent to take extraordinary measures to prevent events that happen a vanishingly small percentage of the time. We don't need a lifeguard staring at the solarium pool. We don't need to close the pool at 8pm because the lifeguard is off duty. Yes, this means that at some point someone somewhere might drown (but probably won't) in the solarium pool because they got drunk and made bad decisions. Someone somewhere might climb over the railing on the pool deck and fall into the ocean because they got drunk and made bad decisions. Are you OK with people falling into the ocean and drowning? If you advocate for lifeguards, but argue against railing guards, then you're admitting that there are some deaths which could technically be prevented given enough staff resources, but for which it is not worth devoting the staff resources to do so. You've already admitted that some people are going to die and you're "OK," as you said, with it. We're just arguing over where to draw the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saab4444 Posted May 30, 2018 Author #108 Share Posted May 30, 2018 You're putting words into what I say that aren't there. Of course I'm not OK, or happy, or any other pejorative emotion you wish to assign to me, when someone drowns. That doesn't mean that I think it prudent to take extraordinary measures to prevent events that happen a vanishingly small percentage of the time. We don't need a lifeguard staring at the solarium pool. We don't need to close the pool at 8pm because the lifeguard is off duty. Yes, this means that at some point someone somewhere might drown (but probably won't) in the solarium pool because they got drunk and made bad decisions. Someone somewhere might climb over the railing on the pool deck and fall into the ocean because they got drunk and made bad decisions. Are you OK with people falling into the ocean and drowning? If you advocate for lifeguards, but argue against railing guards, then you're admitting that there are some deaths which could technically be prevented given enough staff resources, but for which it is not worth devoting the staff resources to do so. You've already admitted that some people are going to die and you're "OK," as you said, with it. We're just arguing over where to draw the line. Thank you, this is a balanced and fair summary of the situation and exactly what I meant with my original post. The Solarium Pool on Independence is between 1.40 and 1.75 meters deep and children are not allowed. How realistic is a worst case scenario in that an adult, drunk or not drunk, drowns and does this really justifies all these lifeguards? It would be reasonable to have one lifeguard for the main pool deck, especially when kids are around and when it is crowded in warm waters. But four lifeguards at the same time on one deck and all pools closed when they are not on duty? If someone mentions the words safety and children no other argument appears to be allowed anymore. Why do most cruise lines do not have lifeguards and don`t even think about this? How many accidents really happened? Or is this just implemented by Royal because of the risk of bad press and beeing sued under US law where even a coffee shop is made responsible for someone who burnt himself because he drank his coffee too hot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare orville99 Posted May 30, 2018 #109 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Thank you, this is a balanced and fair summary of the situation and exactly what I meant with my original post. The Solarium Pool on Independence is between 1.40 and 1.75 meters deep and children are not allowed. How realistic is a worst case scenario in that an adult, drunk or not drunk, drowns and does this really justifies all these lifeguards? It would be reasonable to have one lifeguard for the main pool deck, especially when kids are around and when it is crowded in warm waters. But four lifeguards at the same time on one deck and all pools closed when they are not on duty? If someone mentions the words safety and children no other argument appears to be allowed anymore. Why do most cruise lines do not have lifeguards and don`t even think about this? How many accidents really happened? Or is this just implemented by Royal because of the risk of bad press and beeing sued under US law where even a coffee shop is made responsible for someone who burnt himself because he drank his coffee too hot? Drowning has happened in as little as a few inches of water. Drinking is a leading cause of shallow water drowning deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pratique Posted May 30, 2018 #110 Share Posted May 30, 2018 OP why don't you just petition the cruise line to keep the Solarium pool open when it is unattended rather than trying to argue your case here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95south Posted June 6, 2018 #111 Share Posted June 6, 2018 So your complaining because they're being extra safety minded and it's talking away from having more servers on the pool deck to serve you? I don't think the extras life guards are taking away from your poolside drinking and I would rather see more life guards than less like some cruise lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saab4444 Posted June 6, 2018 Author #112 Share Posted June 6, 2018 We do not care for poolside drinking and drinking much alcohol at all. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saab4444 Posted June 6, 2018 Author #113 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Adults do not need lifeguards while swimming in a tiny pool and accidents can happen also when you cross a street or walk down some stairs. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WisconsinFan Posted June 6, 2018 #114 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Adults do not need lifeguards while swimming in a tiny pool and accidents can happen also when you cross a street or walk down some stairs. Sent from my iPad using Forums Please tell me then why are there lifeguards at the Olympics? (never noticed them? they are there) You don't think Katie Ledecky, Ryan Lockte, Caeleb Dressel, or Cullen Jones (who by the way almost drowned as a child so he learned to swim) need a life guard as they are adults (who can swim at a high level). If someone has a medical emergency- say a heart attack or stroke, or they slip and hit their head I would prefer to have a trained lifeguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karena1 Posted June 6, 2018 #115 Share Posted June 6, 2018 We always say it must be the most boring job there is. But I love that is has stopped kids from running around the pool. That is how accidents happen. Now they stop them and tell them they cannot do that. We have seen it so many times, kids running all over around the pool, so very happy that has ended with the lifeguards there. They also have for the most stopped letting children with diapers and not potty trained from getting in the pool. So happy about that!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyitsmema Posted June 6, 2018 #116 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Adults do not need lifeguards while swimming in a tiny pool and accidents can happen also when you cross a street or walk down some stairs. Sent from my iPad using Forums Adults can drown in tiny pools just like they can drown in large pools and in the ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eslader Posted June 8, 2018 #117 Share Posted June 8, 2018 If someone has a medical emergency- say a heart attack or stroke, or they slip and hit their head I would prefer to have a trained lifeguard. I understand where you are coming from here, but what happens if they have a heart attack in their cabin? Or sitting on the sun deck? Should we close the sun deck when staff isn't able to be present on the off chance that someone might have a medical emergency up there? It just seems kind of... Unnecessary to me to close an adult pool due to lack of lifeguards, when no other adult areas are closed when staff isn't around. Accidents and tragedies can and do happen outside of the pools too. Why is drowning something we're enthusiastic about addressing to the point of closing venues, but none of the other potential dangers are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAcruiser19372 Posted June 8, 2018 #118 Share Posted June 8, 2018 What's wrong with a sign that says "No lifeguard on duty, swim at your own risk". Done everyday at apartment complexes and other places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BillOh Posted June 8, 2018 #119 Share Posted June 8, 2018 When did Royal start with having all these lifeguards by the pools? Poor people standing there all day even when no one is even close to go into the water. This is ridiculous. And why one per pool? The pools are only 30 feet away from each other. They would just have to turn around to be there in 2 seconds if something happens. Because of costs I trust 5 lifeguards on a ship means 5 waiters less on the pool decks.. Sent from my iPhone using Forums I'm going to answer, and then read your replies. There has been at least 2 drownings on Royal ships in the past 5 years. I think the one that finally triggered the lifeguards was where a kid was at the bottom of a pool filled with adults who didn't see him under the water for a short time. I first saw the life guards in Sept of 2016. On that cruise one lifeguard was watching the kids water area and the main pool on Majesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BillOh Posted June 8, 2018 #120 Share Posted June 8, 2018 When my daughter was younger, despite being an excellent swimmer, she was jumped on in the pool by two teenage boys who hurt her back and pushed her under. My husband was in the pool but it happened really quickly. No lifeguards to stop the teenagers running around the pool and running and jumping into the water. . This brings up a point I noticed with the lifeguards. They are told to watch for people in trouble and that only. Probably a good thing, but having grown up with lifeguards at pools, they were also enforcers, yelling at people clowning around and running and other things they shouldn't. On Majesty in 2016 or maybe it was 17 I saw two kids dragging a kid who was screaming that he couldn't swim into a pool within 25 ft of one of their life guards. The kid jumped might back out of the pool, upset, but ok. The lifeguard didn't flinch. I'm sure if the kid didn't come up he would have been right there, but clearly they aren't stopping rough horseplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KamiKake Posted June 8, 2018 #121 Share Posted June 8, 2018 When we were on the Grandeur in December, we talked extensively to the LG Supervisor. We were often the only ones in the hot tub late in the evening watching movies and got to know her quite well. (We also had a son her age.) Being a lifeguard for RCL does NOT suck. lol They rotate pools every 30 minutes and take turns opening and closing the pool. They have no other responsibilities, so when the pool is closed, they are doing continued training or are completely off. They also take turns rotating their off time when they are in ports, so everyone gets can see different places. As a supervisor, she had a cabin to herself. They participate in crew parties and do have decent down time. Living at home in her off time, with minimal expenses, she was socking away about 6 grand a month. Not a bad gig for a young person, even if you only did a few rotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BillOh Posted June 8, 2018 #122 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Again, I think both on the whole are a good thing. Certainly not expecting privacy, but having the guy stare at DW in her new bikini was a bit off putting. Sent from my iPhone using Forums I apologize for that. Do you have a larger version of your profile pic ?:evilsmile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONECRUISER Posted June 8, 2018 #123 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) I understand where you are coming from here, but what happens if they have a heart attack in their cabin? Or sitting on the sun deck? Should we close the sun deck when staff isn't able to be present on the off chance that someone might have a medical emergency up there? It just seems kind of... Unnecessary to me to close an adult pool due to lack of lifeguards, when no other adult areas are closed when staff isn't around. Accidents and tragedies can and do happen outside of the pools too. Why is drowning something we're enthusiastic about addressing to the point of closing venues, but none of the other potential dangers are? People forget Royal pools use to close all the pools every nite, all nite. They would drain the water, put netting over it and was closed until 6am... Multiple high profile drowning deaths happened on multiple cruise lines. Lifeguards are here and they have it pretty good compared to most Lifeguard's... Edited June 8, 2018 by ONECRUISER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BillOh Posted June 8, 2018 #124 Share Posted June 8, 2018 We always say it must be the most boring job there is. But I love that is has stopped kids from running around the pool. ! This hasn't been my experience so far. Let's see see 3 cruises now seeing lifeguards. I've never seen a lifeguard on duty correct a kid or adult for running or horseplay. They seem purely concentrated on looking for someone in distress in a pool. They do seem be very attentive, trained, and frequently rotated. As John mentioned in a previous post, I've seen them talk to guests or other crew without taking their eyes off the pool. My only objection to the life guards is probably with the cost, I think they are closing some pools earlier. On Jewel the entire solarium was closed at 9pm. Especially when the main pool area was loaded with people watching movies for an hour at a time. The notion that life guards meant fewer pool waiters was stupid and was probably just bait many of you bit on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare orville99 Posted June 8, 2018 #125 Share Posted June 8, 2018 This brings up a point I noticed with the lifeguards. They are told to watch for people in trouble and that only. Probably a good thing, but having grown up with lifeguards at pools, they were also enforcers, yelling at people clowning around and running and other things they shouldn't. On Majesty in 2016 or maybe it was 17 I saw two kids dragging a kid who was screaming that he couldn't swim into a pool within 25 ft of one of their life guards. The kid jumped might back out of the pool, upset, but ok. The lifeguard didn't flinch. I'm sure if the kid didn't come up he would have been right there, but clearly they aren't stopping rough horseplay. A well-trained guard has one responsibility - to prevent drowning. I always started my training sessions with a simple reminder of that singular responsibility to my students: an effective lifeguard is a dry lifeguard. They are trained to divide a pool into segments (usually 4-6 segments/guard) and constantly move their focus from segment to segment in a pre-determined order. Their purpose is to first do a "segment head count", and then to look for any warning signs of distress. With a crowded pool, a lifeguard has neither the time nor the luxury of looking anywhere but towards one of those segments. My best estimate is the guard you referenced was doing his/her segment rotation, and had not gotten back to that specific segment when the child went into the water, but I can guarantee his/her view would have been there within a few moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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