Carnival Horizon hits pier.

[LA_CA_GAL]

Manhattan,

 

[Heidi13]

Interesting fact is that she struck Pier 90, but was attempting to dock at Pier 88. Must have been a good ebb current running in the river.

[sail7seas]

Whoa, Not good but seems no injuies and miimal damage to the dock area and none to ship.

[Lori Dobson]

It's just a flesh wound....

[sail7seas]

I suspect there is a much relieved Captain wearing a Carnival uniform. and a NY harbor pilot? who --------(fill in the blank :D )

[chengkp75]

Whoa, Not good but seems no injuies and miimal damage to the dock area and none to ship.

 

Oh, there's damage to the ship, maybe just not enough to require repair before her first drydock.

 

Interesting fact is that she struck Pier 90, but was attempting to dock at Pier 88. Must have been a good ebb current running in the river.

 

The tides and current in the Hudson have always been able to combine in very nasty ways, and the turn into the Manhattan piers has always been treacherous. It is one of the few areas where cruise ships routinely use tugs to assist. As I'm sure you know, things can go sideways in a real hurry. Likely got the stern caught in a current, swinging it towards pier 88, and so they goosed the pods a bit to swing but added a little too much ahead thrust, and went up into pier 90.

[chengkp75]

I suspect there is a much relieved Captain wearing a Carnival uniform. and a NY harbor pilot? who --------(fill in the blank :D )

 

--- quite calmly and unconcernedly walked off the ship, and proceeded to the clinic for a drug and alcohol screening.

[SRF]

--- quite calmly and unconcernedly walked off the ship, and proceeded to the clinic for a drug and alcohol screening.

 

And possibly to take off his Carnival uniform for the last time.

[leaveitallbehind]

And possibly to take off his Carnival uniform for the last time.

 

Not likely. Think it would take something far more serious than this to end a career.

[chengkp75]

And possibly to take off his Carnival uniform for the last time.

 

Well, I was actually speaking about the harbor pilot, but I don't believe this is a career ender, just a fender bender. It really depends on how the company's ISM code is written regarding ship handling in restricted waters, and whether or not the Captain followed those rules. If he did, another part of the ISM gives the Master "overriding authority" to make decisions regarding the safety of the vessel, meaning that no one in corporate can second guess his decisions at the time, on scene.

[Heidi13]

 

The tides and current in the Hudson have always been able to combine in very nasty ways, and the turn into the Manhattan piers has always been treacherous. It is one of the few areas where cruise ships routinely use tugs to assist. As I'm sure you know, things can go sideways in a real hurry. Likely got the stern caught in a current, swinging it towards pier 88, and so they goosed the pods a bit to swing but added a little too much ahead thrust, and went up into pier 90.

 

Thanks - have only docked at Pier 88/90 once and that was as a passenger, don't have any working experience docking at this terminal, however the challenges are similar to the docking at my old home terminal.

 

My best guess, having completed thousands of similar dockings. Once the bow enters the berths it is in slack water, but the stern is still in the tide/current, which creates a huge sheer - an ebb tide sheers the bow to port & flood tide to stbd. If it was an ebb tide, it also pushes the ship bodily downstream towards Pier 88. I would expect the approach should be fairly high with bow aimed at Pier 90. As bow hits slack water you alter hard to stbd keeping the stern off the Pier 88 outer knuckle. However, if late getting helm applied/pods adjusted, the stern can be grabbed by the current, which moves the bow to port and contacting Pier 90.

 

If operating with a 2 - 3 kt current, things go wrong really quickly. You also have to factor in helm/propulsion response times - can't comment on Carnival ships, but some of my ships have been excellent, while others were brutally slow. Haven't used azipods, only a few z-drives & mostly CP-props and high lift rudders. When in this situation, it is critical for the rudders to move before hammering the thrust, or you gain more headway. Since minimal damage occurred, my best guess is they were already correcting the sheer and only had a glancing contact.

 

With respect to responsibilities of Captain and NY Harbour Pilot, how we described it in the logbook provides the best explanation of respective authorities - courses & speeds various to Master's Orders & Pilot's Advice. With the exception of the Panama Canal, the Master always has the final say. Even if the Pilot is actively conning the ship, the Master (Captain) can challenge him/her and if not satisfied the agreed voyage plan is being followed, can remove the Pilot from conning duties.

 

Is this career ending - depends on the Master/Pilot meeting and agreeing a voyage plan, as per the Company's Bridge Procedures. Provided all procedures were carried out correctly and the ship was not operated outside normal parameters, this minor incident should not be career ending.

 

Just my 2c.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Heard about this yesterday.

Made me think about an incident we had in New York. Many years ago we were on the Pacific Princess waiting in a special lounge at the back of the ship for disembarkation when an RCI ship hit the end of our dock -- made too sharp a turn. Smashed the dock up pretty badly. Glad we were on a small ship or we would have been smashed as well. The RCI ship had a nice long dent on the starboard side.

[Aquahound]

Darn! Just when it seemed as though Carnival was starting to reverse their reputation of banging into stuff. ;)

[SRF]

Well, I was actually speaking about the harbor pilot, but I don't believe this is a career ender, just a fender bender. It really depends on how the company's ISM code is written regarding ship handling in restricted waters, and whether or not the Captain followed those rules. If he did, another part of the ISM gives the Master "overriding authority" to make decisions regarding the safety of the vessel, meaning that no one in corporate can second guess his decisions at the time, on scene.

 

Interesting.

 

In the airline world, they are not so forgiving.

[Heidi13]

Interesting.

 

In the airline world, they are not so forgiving.

 

Hopefully, this may help to explain some differences between marine & aircraft . It could be due to the airlines having clearly defined operating envelopes, whereas in the Marine industry these are at best in the infancy.

 

My last ship had sufficient power to conduct normal dockings in 31 to 32 kt beam winds, however we routinely docked safely in 40 - 45 kts winds and I have completed many at 60 - 70 kts. Unlike an aircraft, we can approach safely at very low speed, take a number of approaches and can actually use shore structures to manourvre the vessel.

 

With my previous company, provided we operated the vessel within the publish ISM Bridge Procedures Guide, we were provided some slack if a rouge current/wind overpowered what our ship could handle.

 

Contacting shore structures, even in extreme conditions was very rare, but if we only operated within the vessel's handling envelop we would rarely sail in the winter months. The other consideration is airport runways are generally aligned with the prevailing winds, but most cruise ship berths and ferry terminal are not aligned to current or wind. In fact my last home berth was perpendicular to both prevailing wind and tides.

[SRF]

I am not talking about flying incidents, but the Capt is responsible even when the aircraft is being pushed back by a tug with ground crew in total control of the movement.

[Heidi13]

I am not talking about flying incidents, but the Capt is responsible even when the aircraft is being pushed back by a tug with ground crew in total control of the movement.

 

Marine industry is similar in that respect. Even with tugs and pilot conning the vessel the Master is still responsible, except in Panama Canal.

[chengkp75]

I am not talking about flying incidents, but the Capt is responsible even when the aircraft is being pushed back by a tug with ground crew in total control of the movement.

 

Not sure if the airline industry has anything similar to the ISM code, but while as Heidi says, the Captain is always responsible (except crossing a drydock sill, in addition to the Panama Canal), if he had followed the ISM requirements as written by the company and approved by third party auditors and flag state, he would not be held to blame. So, while it happened "on his watch", he did everything right, so he is not to blame.

[Heidi13]

Thanks, forgot about drydocks, probably because for us it was a bit of a grey area. We dry-docked 2 in 5 rather than every 5 yrs and always in Esquimalt, so got to know them fairly well.

 

We received a retired tug Captain just outside the dock, but I still had to get the ship inside. Once inside, the pilot positioned it for the blocks with the dockmaster.

[navybankerteacher]

Marine industry is similar in that respect. Even with tugs and pilot conning the vessel the Master is still responsible, except in Panama Canal.

 

...or, (in US Navy, at least) once the bow of the ship crosses the sill of a dry dock.

[bob brown]

. Unlike an aircraft, we can approach safely at very low speed, take a number of approaches and can actually use shore structures to manourvre the vessel..

Maybe they need to install 'flexible pilings' in the berth, like those that guide in the Staten Island ferries?:D;p

[Aquahound]

Maybe they need to install 'flexible pilings' in the berth, like those that guide in the Staten Island ferries?:D;p

 

Or in this case, a flexible parking garage. ;)