Congratulations - You're now auto-tipping 18% on drinks instead of 15%.

[sparks1093]

26 minutes ago, Crazy4Camping said:

Actually it was 2003 but then it got even cheaper cause they had those bad hurricanes down there.  Not sure what it costs these days I'm just saying that we were led to believe it's so cheap to cruise and then you see the cost for a week-oh wow 600 bucks includes everything let's go-then you find out it only includes food-and not all food-and  beverages cost extra and then the flights, gratuities, transfers, excursions, etc. just adding up quick.  If you can do this more than once, all the power to you!!  

We could probably do a land vacation cheaper by staying in economy hotels and eating fast food and watching TV every evening for entertainment. Cruising allows us to have a better experience for an affordable price. Sure, you can add all sorts of extras if you want to but it's not strictly necessary.

[Crazy4Camping]

6 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

We could probably do a land vacation cheaper by staying in economy hotels and eating fast food and watching TV every evening for entertainment. Cruising allows us to have a better experience for an affordable price. Sure, you can add all sorts of extras if you want to but it's not strictly necessary.

True.  I guess my experience is from inexpensive things like camping.  I never even stayed in a hotel until I was in my 30s.  I'm very excited to enjoy this experience, don't get me wrong, I am just displacing my concerns.  It's the couple that talked us into it that didn't tell us what it would really cost.  They've cruised a dozen times and have begged us for years to join them so they prob weren't completely forthcoming or we would've kept refusing LOL.  I think this will be a once-in-a-lifetime experience so I have told myself not to worry about it that it will be worth every penny!  And thank goodness for these message boards or I would be going into this even more ignorant!

[DebJ14]

l have no problem with the increase, but I do think that when they announced the other gratuity increase going into effect on December 1 they should have also included this one.  We prepaid gratuities for 2 upcoming cruises.  Many people would have probably purchased their drink packages before the increase as well.  It just looks bad that they were not forthright about this increase.

[ray98]

On 12/2/2018 at 11:36 AM, tonit964 said:

The auto tip of 15% has been the same since I can remember so another 3% is nothing.

 

 

That doesn't mean it needs to go up.....

[repo-cruiser]

On 12/3/2018 at 3:20 PM, SwordBlazer Cruising said:

Let me ask a question. Since there are so many people who are concerned where a crew members tip goes, is there the very same public outcry when people smuggle onboard bottles of alcohol and other items which force a cruise line to raise the actual cruise cost? Come on guys, these crew members deserve the gratuities and really who are we to drill down and question to the PENNY how a cruise line " compensates" a crew member? I am not aware of anyone here that works as a director or is an officer for Carnival?

Smuggling alcohol does not cause raising cruise cost and it has been proven over and over. People smuggled alcohol in the 1980's,1990's and early 2000's. Cruise prices dropped from the 80's to the 2000's with a ton of smugglers. So now you say they are raising prices ??? I always get up early and go lay on a lounge in the morning. I've watched people come and go and I have asked many of them why they think they can save chairs all morning and day, the most common answer is " because we tipped extra " I always am dumbfounded by that answer, tip who? The second most common answer is "because we are diamond or Platinum. Tipping before a service has been provided is really not a tip but a bribe. I will tip the required tips then tip on what an actual tip is , did someone go above and beyond for us, if so I nice extra tip for them .

[Expat Cruise]

9 hours ago, repo-cruiser said:

Smuggling alcohol does not cause raising cruise cost and it has been proven over and over. People smuggled alcohol in the 1980's,1990's and early 2000's. Cruise prices dropped from the 80's to the 2000's with a ton of smugglers. So now you say they are raising prices ??? I always get up early and go lay on a lounge in the morning. I've watched people come and go and I have asked many of them why they think they can save chairs all morning and day, the most common answer is " because we tipped extra " I always am dumbfounded by that answer, tip who? The second most common answer is "because we are diamond or Platinum. Tipping before a service has been provided is really not a tip but a bribe. I will tip the required tips then tip on what an actual tip is , did someone go above and beyond for us, if so I nice extra tip for them .

Cruise prices have come down for many reasons, some the same as why a airline ticket costs much less in 2018 dollars vs 1980 dollars.  But to say smuggling of alcohol does not increase costs is the same as saying shoplifting does not increase costs. Smuggling of alcohol does cost the cruise lines in several ways, higher costs of security, loss of sales, account for items found and overall costing the lines money.  It is reflected in the cost of the cruises, but with larger ships and more ships sailing, overall cruise costs have come down. They would be down more with smuggling. 

 

But that is not the real problem here  is the cruise line is claiming a charge is a tip but they are converting it to general operating costs and that is wrong. Why not be honest and just apply a mandatory 1.5% surcharge and say in the open it is for operations? Not have to have a letter to crew posted so guest know what is going on.

 

[mredandchis]

14 hours ago, Crazy4Camping said:

True.  I guess my experience is from inexpensive things like camping.  I never even stayed in a hotel until I was in my 30s.  I'm very excited to enjoy this experience, don't get me wrong, I am just displacing my concerns.  It's the couple that talked us into it that didn't tell us what it would really cost.  They've cruised a dozen times and have begged us for years to join them so they prob weren't completely forthcoming or we would've kept refusing LOL.  I think this will be a once-in-a-lifetime experience so I have told myself not to worry about it that it will be worth every penny!  And thank goodness for these message boards or I would be going into this even more ignorant!

It is true that over all cruising in more expensive.   I like to track what my real costs are at the end of any vacation.  They are always more than you think, and i include everything.  This thing is and like you said you love camping and i have done that with my 19 foot travel trailer.  I also have gone to the outer banks and stayed in a hotel.  and of course I cruise like every chance i get.  But then there is a value thing that i cant calculate when it comes to certain things.  Like a hotel that moves to different places and I dont have to drive.  Entertainment every evening that i wouldnt do on a land based vacation.  I always feel more rested after a cruise.  But even in a cruise 2 different parties can have significantly different costs on the same boat.  So maybe it will be a once in a lifetime experience for you, but you wont regret it.  And the camping will be there for you for the next time.  Enjoy 

 

[Swagner36]

On 12/3/2018 at 10:06 PM, Expat Cruise said:

The question was "Has it been established how much of the 18% actually goes to the crew as pay?"  The answer 1.5% is not correct. We know from the letter to crew posted on CLN that the crew will get 1.5% of the 3% increase, we do not know how much of the 15% already charged they get.  The line will not tell the guest how this 18% total is paid to the crew. it is represented as a tip  so this information should be known. Based upon the 3% letter it could be less than half of the 18% goes to the crew as a tip.

 

Here is the breakdown, per day:

Housekeeping Team: $4.05 ($5.05 for suites)

Dining Team: $6.40

Alternative Services: $2.50

That was before the increase from what I found

[Expat Cruise]

5 minutes ago, Swagner36 said:

Here is the breakdown, per day:

Housekeeping Team: $4.05 ($5.05 for suites)

Dining Team: $6.40

Alternative Services: $2.50

That was before the increase from what I found

Please provide the details of where this information from, so it can be confirmed.  Even if confirmed it still really doesn't tell the answers, who is the Housekeeping Team Dining Team & what is Alternate Services.  The Captain could be part of these teams, the people in the corporate offices, the legal staff.  Sorry does not prove anything.

 

[BlerkOne]

27 minutes ago, Expat Cruise said:

Please provide the details of where this information from, so it can be confirmed.  Even if confirmed it still really doesn't tell the answers, who is the Housekeeping Team Dining Team & what is Alternate Services.  The Captain could be part of these teams, the people in the corporate offices, the legal staff.  Sorry does not prove anything.

 

 

 Please provide of any other cruise line that even approaches Carnival in transparency. But you do help prove an earlier assertion of mine.

[sparks1093]

7 hours ago, Expat Cruise said:

Please provide the details of where this information from, so it can be confirmed.  Even if confirmed it still really doesn't tell the answers, who is the Housekeeping Team Dining Team & what is Alternate Services.  The Captain could be part of these teams, the people in the corporate offices, the legal staff.  Sorry does not prove anything.

 

You seriously don't know who the Housekeeping Team and Dining Team are? Alternate Services is a little more nebulous but goes to those staff members who provide services to all passengers (such as those handling the bags in the hold and delivering them to the passenger decks and the folks who clean the common areas of the ship). Do I have proof? Nope. But I know how things work on board ship and how things work in a tipping environment and it's what makes the most sense to me. The tips don't spread as far as most people think they do (on our last Pride sailing if you gave every crew member on board a penny of the tip from every passenger each crew member would have made a whopping $207 for the week but of course every crew member doesn't participate in the tips). 

[Expat Cruise]

4 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

You seriously don't know who the Housekeeping Team and Dining Team are? Alternate Services is a little more nebulous but goes to those staff members who provide services to all passengers (such as those handling the bags in the hold and delivering them to the passenger decks and the folks who clean the common areas of the ship). Do I have proof? Nope. But I know how things work on board ship and how things work in a tipping environment and it's what makes the most sense to me. The tips don't spread as far as most people think they do (on our last Pride sailing if you gave every crew member on board a penny of the tip from every passenger each crew member would have made a whopping $207 for the week but of course every crew member doesn't participate in the tips). 

Sorry but Housing team or Dinning team does not cut it.  No one knows  how the money is split, many are guessing.  It is billed as being a tip so the cruise line should disclose complete information but they will not do so.  And still waiting for a source fro this split information. Just because someone posts it does not make it true.  Is the Captain part of the team?  No one will say if the fees charge are going to management. Sorry management should not be tipped.  How we know that every crew member is not part of the tip pool? Again sorry most employees are not entitled to a share of the tips. 

[sparks1093]

13 minutes ago, Expat Cruise said:

Sorry but Housing team or Dinning team does not cut it.  No one knows  how the money is split, many are guessing.  It is billed as being a tip so the cruise line should disclose complete information but they will not do so.  And still waiting for a source fro this split information. Just because someone posts it does not make it true.  Is the Captain part of the team?  No one will say if the fees charge are going to management. Sorry management should not be tipped.  How we know that every crew member is not part of the tip pool? Again sorry most employees are not entitled to a share of the tips. 

Most employees don't receive a share of the tips, just those who work in traditionally tipped positions (such as housekeeping and dining). You don't have the right to know exactly how it's split, just like if you leave a tip in a land based restaurant. The tip pool is split in accordance with the agreement between the cruise line and the employees and that fact alone is sufficient for most of us. I've already demonstrated how little the crew would make if every crew member is part of the pool and I seriously doubt that the Captain is driving the ship for $207 a week.

Edited December 11, 2018 by sparks1093

[Expat Cruise]

2 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Most employees don't receive a share of the tips, just those who work in traditionally tipped positions (such as housekeeping and dining). You don't have the right to know exactly how it's split, just like if you leave a tip in a land based restaurant. The tip pool is split in accordance with the agreement between the cruise line and the employees and that fact alone is sufficient for most of us. I've already demonstrated how little the crew would make if every crew member is part of the pool and I seriously doubt that the Captain is driving the ship for $207 a week.

Really not interest in opinions only interested in facts.  A tip is a tip, not something to be paying the basic wages of crew members. Fact, when I go to a airport and fly, I do not tip the ground staff in the baggage room, I do not tip the people sweeping the floor and the airlines / airport do not disrespect customers and ask for them to do so. If you want my money  for a optional thing like tipping you will respect me and tell me how it is split, if not we will have issues, like what has been posted here. Increasing a bar service charge/Tip Fee and then using the money to pay for things the cruise line should pay for is not honest. I deal with many dishonest people everyday but know how to handle them to protect myself.  Exactly what any guest does is between the guest and the cruise line.

[sparks1093]

10 minutes ago, Expat Cruise said:

Really not interest in opinions only interested in facts.  A tip is a tip, not something to be paying the basic wages of crew members. Fact, when I go to a airport and fly, I do not tip the ground staff in the baggage room, I do not tip the people sweeping the floor and the airlines / airport do not disrespect customers and ask for them to do so. If you want my money  for a optional thing like tipping you will respect me and tell me how it is split, if not we will have issues, like what has been posted here. Increasing a bar service charge/Tip Fee and then using the money to pay for things the cruise line should pay for is not honest. I deal with many dishonest people everyday but know how to handle them to protect myself.  Exactly what any guest does is between the guest and the cruise line.

You've been given facts, you just don't want to give them any credence because they don't square with your world view. Tips are used to supplement the income of a great many people and it is counted as wages in the vast majority of cases. In your adopted homeland they exclude income from tips from taxes, so wouldn't someone want most of their income to come from tips in order to reduce their tax payment? Once I've left a tip I forget about it because I have absolutely no control over what happens to it. None. If you want to continue to worry about it that is of course your right and your business. Personally I have better things to worry about.

[Expat Cruise]

1 minute ago, sparks1093 said:

You've been given facts, you just don't want to give them any credence because they don't square with your world view. 

Again please site the source of these facts, We know for a fact that 50% of the increased is not being used for tip, it is going to general operating expenses. A fact proved by the letter from the corporation to the crew. This is a fact that we can agree on claimed facts we cannot agree upon.

  

[beerman2]

59 minutes ago, Expat Cruise said:

Again please site the source of these facts, We know for a fact that 50% of the increased is not being used for tip, it is going to general operating expenses. A fact proved by the letter from the corporation to the crew. This is a fact that we can agree on claimed facts we cannot agree upon.

  

Where are your "facts"?

"We know for a fact that 50% of the increased is not being used for tip, it is going to general operating expenses."

 

Asking others to state facts, seems only right you do also.

Edited December 11, 2018 by beerman2

[sparks1093]

59 minutes ago, Expat Cruise said:

Again please site the source of these facts, We know for a fact that 50% of the increased is not being used for tip, it is going to general operating expenses. A fact proved by the letter from the corporation to the crew. This is a fact that we can agree on claimed facts we cannot agree upon.

  

As I recall part of the increase is going to pay for bar staff uniforms, the remainder is for something related to the bar staff, so even if they don't receive it directly they still benefit from it. Some companies pay for uniforms. Some companies don't and expect the employee to pay for them. So to say that they are part of general operating expenses is a stretch since it varies so widely. When John Heald says that the crew receives 100% of the tips I consider that to be a fact (which of course doesn't answer your question of distribution, but since you don't have the right to that information it doesn't matter). If I saw three pennies on the ground I doubt that I would pick them up and that's what we're talking about here (and if I did I would put them in my grandson's piggy bank), 3 cents on the dollar.

 

The biggest fact- the large number of tipped employees who continue to sign contracts with Carnival year after year after year. If they weren't happy with the status quo you wouldn't see that.

[Expat Cruise]

19 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Where are your "facts"?

"We know for a fact that 50% of the increased is not being used for tip, it is going to general operating expenses."

 

Asking others to state facts, seems only right you do also.

It has already been posted in this thread and available to those who want to look. The Letter from Richard Morse, Carnival’s Senior Vice President of Hotel Operations, that was sent to the crews. In this letter he clearly states and explains:

 

"that from the the 3% increase, 1.5% will go to the Carnival server and the remaining 1.5% will go into a pool to fund Carnival expenses including the costs of  uniforms and return airline tickets for crew members"

 

 Sorry uniforms and return Airline tickets for crew members are general operations expenses. So confirmed by the VP of Hotel Operations. a Copy of the letter can be found here  Carnival cruise line pockets portion of increase drink gratuities.

 

Confirmation  backed with facts, not what members want to believe. Simply stated  Carnival is pocketing tip money for operating costs.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Expat Cruise

[beerman2]

12 minutes ago, Expat Cruise said:

It has already been posted in this thread and available to those who want to look. The Letter from Richard Morse, Carnival’s Senior Vice President of Hotel Operations, that was sent to the crews. In this letter he clearly states and explains:

 

"that from the the 3% increase, 1.5% will go to the Carnival server and the remaining 1.5% will go into a pool to fund Carnival expenses including the costs of  uniforms and return airline tickets for crew members"

 

 Sorry uniforms and return Airline tickets for crew members are general operations expenses. So confirmed by the VP of Hotel Operations. a Copy of the letter can be found here  Carnival cruise line pockets portion of increase drink gratuities.

 

Confirmation  backed with facts, not what members want to believe. Simply stated  Carnival is pocketing tip money for operating costs.

To each their own, we don't have to like how corporations operate however their share holders don't complain.

And no I don't own stock in Carnival , what I do know is Corporations are going to do things THEIR way and our choice is to accept or take our money elsewhere.

Saying they are wrong isn't going to change a thing, it's a Profitable Business , so if one is inclined buy stock and make some money.

 

Profit to most businesses is a good thing.

[evandbob]

On 12/1/2018 at 7:55 AM, Joebucks said:

Tipping culture has become a lot like income taxes. You get to subsidize others because of those that choose not to contribute.

 

When in reality, it should be a bonus for over the top service. 

I agree.  Why should my taxes be used to supplement the incomes and life styles of corporations, millionaires, and billionaires who use loopholes to pay no taxes at all?  I don't care if one of them happens to be president either, we are still getting ripped off..

 

Back to the original topic, an increase from 15 to 18% is minimal, and the crew deserves every penny of the increase that Carnival deigns to give them.

[pacruise804]

On 12/4/2018 at 8:56 AM, sparks1093 said:

I personally don't care how much the person is making, if they have earned a tip from me they get it. I'm sure that there have been many times I've given tips to people that were earning much more than me at the time. Meh. They still got a tip. 

 

I agree Sparks1093, and don't really get the logic that you tip or don't tip based on what you think someone makes.  We tip based on services rendered within our cultural norm.

 

I am a homemaker and therefore technically anyone who receives any income makes more than I do.  My children are minor students and not yet receiving pay (other than allowance, savings interest, etc).  We still extend gratuities to those who serve us well.

 

[finzup-kt]

On 12/11/2018 at 7:42 AM, Expat Cruise said:

 

 

"that from the the 3% increase, 1.5% will go to the Carnival server and the remaining 1.5% will go into a pool to fund Carnival expenses including the costs of  uniforms and return airline tickets for crew members"

 

 Sorry uniforms and return Airline tickets for crew members are general operations expenses. So confirmed by the VP of Hotel Operations. a Copy of the letter can be found here  Carnival cruise line pockets portion of increase drink gratuities.

 

 

My POV -

In most jobs the employee pays at least partially for any type of uniform and no company I've heard of here in the US pays my airfare home to visit my family.

So, to me, these are also indirect benefits to the employee.

 

 

[Expat Cruise]

49 minutes ago, finzup-kt said:

 

My POV -

In most jobs the employee pays at least partially for any type of uniform and no company I've heard of here in the US pays my airfare home to visit my family.

So, to me, these are also indirect benefits to the employee.

 

 

To pay the airfare to the job and return home is SOP for the cruise industry. In part because many countries require the employer guarantee the employee.  Also they could not get the crew members to the ships to work without paying the airfares. Most of the service workers do not have the savings to pay for a plane ticket. They already are giving their first months pay to the agency the cruise lines use to find and hire them.  

 

In the United States is is also standard operating to pay the airfare of US workers that are working in foreign countries. If a person takes a contracting job to the Middle East for example most companies pay for the travel to and from the job.

 

If a company wants to charge a employee for uniform costs it should be taken directly from the employee not from a tip being paid by the guests. Just another way for the cruise line to avoid paying what they should to the crews.

 

[FSHLOT]

If i remember correctly, when they first started auto-tipping back in the 90's (i believe) We used to still get envelopes to put the printed out tips for waiter, bus boy,Room steward...etc. So we still were able to hand the guys/gals thier tips and actually felt like they knew what they were getting.

 

I'm hoping that in todays technology the ones being tipped should know who and how much they are getting.

 

Not sure how this helps in this thread, but i guess i just miss the way it was. Maybe next time we cruise, we will NOT auto-tip and just hand it to them. The whole world loves cash....