Escape listed last night 03/03/19

[www3traveler]

Just heard from my family.  They slept through it and did not know anything until they went to breakfast. 

[dpnyc]

5 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Yes...Capt. Niklas.  He handled things very well.

 

 

Wow!  We had Capt. Persson on that December 9th voyage too, during that 2-day storm.

[DuckTollerFans]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

No apology needed.  I thought it was pretty humorous, too!😆

I agree - it truly made me LOL!

 

Glad you're safe, that all is well, and the rest of your cruise will continue. 

 

How do you think a smaller ship such as the Gem would fare in conditions like this?

 

[Suna]

"Saw the couple on board who were complaining on their twitter account.  I’ll reserve comment about them (especially her)."

 

I can just imagine what she is really like. Crazy how she acted with the two cuts to the gentleman - that didn't even look like they needed stitches. Some people just feel entitled.

I imagine it was a tad scary - maybe a little more scary for some. But why someone would be unable to clean up a little broken glass and mess in their cabin is beyond me. 

 

Enjoy the rest of your cruise!

 

[dpnyc]

19 hours ago, slugg said:

...you can give it a shot for fun to develop an intuition for it.

 

Have fun!

Thanks so much, @slugg!!

[graphicguy]

13 minutes ago, DuckTollerFans said:

I agree - it truly made me LOL!

 

Glad you're safe, that all is well, and the rest of your cruise will continue. 

 

How do you think a smaller ship such as the Gem would fare in conditions like this?

 

Good question.  Probably a bit scarier than the Escape, which is a really big ship, 20 decks high.  Given the choice, I’d rather be in the Escape than the gem in a 100 knot, 15* heel.

 

That said, I really liked the GEM!  Maybe sail it in warmer months instead of winter months!

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

Good question.  Probably a bit scarier than the Escape, which is a really big ship, 20 decks high.  Given the choice, I’d rather be in the Escape than the gem in a 100 knot, 15* heel.

 

That said, I really liked the GEM!  Maybe sail it in warmer months instead of winter months!

Actually, the smaller the ship, Gem, the less area the wind has to act on, so less force to heel the ship over.  Also, the taller the ship, the higher the center of gravity, and the center of buoyancy doesn't move that much between ships of these sizes, so the taller ship, Escape, will have a greater GM, and will be "stiffer" (meaning the roll motion will be faster and jerkier) than the lower ship.  This fast, jerky rolling motion is what stabilizers are designed to smooth out, not to stop rolling.  The stabilizer induces a counter-rolling force (much smaller than the force the ship exerts, because the stabilizer is so small in comparison) that is timed to be "out of synch" with the ship's roll, to slow down the roll.

[graphicguy]

Before (with the offending strawberries) and after pics....

[graphicguy]

The above plate, strawberries,  Champaign, ice bucket (with ice) and the wood topper were all on the floor.  Somehow, an actual strawberrry adhere’d to the balcony glass.  I guess the pic didn’t catch that little gem!

Edited March 5, 2019 by graphicguy

[www3traveler]

Just saw two different news reports that only 8 people required hospitalization (all passengers) when the ship reached Port Canaveral.  Not sure what the total headcount would be between passengers but probably 6000 or so, I would say that a miracle has occurred.  

[graphicguy]

The above plate, strawberries,  Champaign, ice bucket (with ice) and the wood topper were all I’ve the floor.  Somehow, an actual strawberries adhere’d to the balcony glass.  I guess the pic didn’t catch that little gem!

 

Next morning seeing what was left of my balcony furniture....

[graphicguy]

After...the way it is supposed to look....

 

 

[Sam Ting]

6 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Yes...Capt. Niklas.  He handled things very well.

 

 

Except the part of driving the ship right into the storm, but what the hey, I understand only 8 were hospitalized.... Great Job!

[pfay64]

On 3/4/2019 at 10:36 AM, slugg said:

I’m skeptical of the reasoning. A gust of wind causing that big of a list is unlikely. The physics just don’t work out; you’d need sustained wind to transfer enough energy into the ship and water to perform enough work to list the ship that much. My money is on stabilizer malfunction of some sort: mechanical, electronic, software, or human error.

 

But hey, glad nobody was seriously hurt and good to hear that the staff and crew maintained a positive experience for all the guests. Recovery from error is the first thing I look for when judging customer service; it looks like they did a great job. 🙂

I was on the Crown Princess when it listed to that degree.  It was a stabilizer malfunction. 

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, pfay64 said:

I was on the Crown Princess when it listed to that degree.  It was a stabilizer malfunction. 

Was this the July 2006 incident?  That was caused by an autopilot steering malfunction, not a stabilizer malfunction.

[pfay64]

14 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Was this the July 2006 incident?  That was caused by an autopilot steering malfunction, not a stabilizer malfunction.

Yes, you are correct, it was.  Thanks I was just trying to correct my mistake.  I guess you would know.  🙂

 

[NormanW]

34 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Actually, the smaller the ship, Gem, the less area the wind has to act on, so less force to heel the ship over.  Also, the taller the ship, the higher the center of gravity, and the center of buoyancy doesn't move that much between ships of these sizes, so the taller ship, Escape, will have a greater GM, and will be "stiffer" (meaning the roll motion will be faster and jerkier) than the lower ship.  This fast, jerky rolling motion is what stabilizers are designed to smooth out, not to stop rolling.  The stabilizer induces a counter-rolling force (much smaller than the force the ship exerts, because the stabilizer is so small in comparison) that is timed to be "out of synch" with the ship's roll, to slow down the roll.

 

+1 Absolutely correct.  Surface area has *everything* to do with it!

 

Square the speed of the wind and multiply by 0.00256.  This provides the pressure in pounds per foot squared.  This is simplified as it only works with a full beam blow (wind direction 90 degrees perpendicular to vessel broadside).  In other words the wind blowing directly on the side of the ship.  Ships have tens of thousands of square feet.  This is why mooring lines can snap in a sudden gust during a severe thunderstorm.  Also, this is important to monitor the weather conditions at port, always.

 

For fun, every see those videos of someone trying to carry a sheet of plywood in the wind?  A standard sheet is 4x8.  That's 32 square feet.  On a breezy day let's say a gust of 35 mph "catches" the better part of the board.  35*35*0.00256*32=100.4#.  So imagine you're carrying something that's already on the awkward side and suddenly a force with 100 pounds tugs on it.  Unless you're a professional wrestler, it's going to get the best of you!

 

The wind speed figure of 115 mph Escape experienced exerts 33.87 pounds per square foot.  That same piece of plywood is now pulling with over 1000 pounds or half a ton of force!  Standard gust measurement is a three second period.  Rotating cup anemometers lag especially on violent wind bursts.  Ultrasonic anemometers excel here and we're using them now for more accurate readings.  It's quite amazing how much higher the maximum reading is during the sampling period (10-40Hz nominal) with a non inertia instrument!  Also, these sudden bursts while potentially destructive aren't going to contribute much to total heel as prolonged gusts, etc.

 

I have access to archives of wind speed profiles for that area.  While I don't see wind speeds that high per se, the conditions are something as an experienced mariner are such that I would honestly not want to be in at the time.  But it happens and you have to make the best of it whether you're working or on vacation.

 

Cheers,

Norman

[AmazedByCruising]

It's the middle of the night and you find glass on your bed that shouldn't be there. Also, you can't sleep anyway because someone keeps shouting Code Alpha through the speakers and some guests are yelling in panick in the hallway. Perfect time to Tweet "Also, it’s been 3 hours and no one has come to clean it up".

 

Even when, uhm, how can anyb.. is it even possible to th...  HOW??? 

[friend of Eeyore]

58 minutes ago, pfay64 said:

I was on the Crown Princess when it listed to that degree.  It was a stabilizer malfunction. 

 

47 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Was this the July 2006 incident?  That was caused by an autopilot steering malfunction, not a stabilizer malfunction.

 

Well, if you can call a junior pilot turning off the autopilot and oversteering (instead of correcting) a "malfunction", I guess that's right. I'd call it human error myself. I was on the Crown during the incident also.

 

But, we listed/leaned severely also, and I can imagine what the passengers went through. I was in the pool at the time, and I was freaked. I hope none of the injuries require more than a cast or stitches and some time to heal.

[NormanW]

For those interested in the Crown Princess Heeling Accident here is the official NTSB report:

 

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAR0801.pdf

 

Summarized with animation:

 

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

Edited March 5, 2019 by NormanW

[AmazedByCruising]

I wonder why the crewmember at 2:30 is telling guests to go midships? That would only help when the ship is pitching, not listing? 

[david_sobe]

Another video from onboard  I love the guys stone faced at the bar like nothing is happening LOL

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by david_sobe

[NormanW]

Bartender is well trained.

He immediately picks up the bottles! 😉

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, friend of Eeyore said:

 

 

Well, if you can call a junior pilot turning off the autopilot and oversteering (instead of correcting) a "malfunction", I guess that's right. I'd call it human error myself. I was on the Crown during the incident also.

 

But, we listed/leaned severely also, and I can imagine what the passengers went through. I was in the pool at the time, and I was freaked. I hope none of the injuries require more than a cast or stitches and some time to heal.

What junior pilot?  The pilot was long gone when the incident happened.  As noted in the NTSB report, the track pilot was causing course oscillation, and the Captain and Staff Captain attempted to rectify this by adjusting the settings in the track pilot, and subsequently left the bridge to the Second Officer, the Senior Officer of the Watch.  When the track pilot started oscillating off course again, due to the changed settings the turns were of greater amplitude, and so the Second Officer disconnected the track pilot, and attempted to stop the existing high rate turn by turning the wheel even further the other way, and this rapid rudder movement caused the "turn induced heel".  While the actual large heel was caused by the Second Officer's excessive steering commands, it was found that the root cause was improper settings, from before, to the track pilot which caused the original wavering of the track.

[Robo1098]

16 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

I wonder why the crewmember at 2:30 is telling guests to go midships? That would only help when the ship is pitching, not listing? 

I think it was to keep passengers from wandering about the ship or possibly going out on deck .