Escape listed last night 03/03/19

[Krazy Kruizers]

I just heard about this on the evening news.

 

Certainly was scary.

 

Glad no one was seriously hurt.

[MalbecWine]

Obviously many of you have not traversed the the Drake Paasge or the Tasman Sea where weather changes on a dime and winds can kick up to over 100K MPH.  Been there done that and we had one elderly man fall off the steps and was evacuated to Ushuaia and this was on  Crystal.  Lots of glasses and bottles were broken and a few windows blew out but we were never in jeopardy.

[friend of Eeyore]

16 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

What junior pilot?  The pilot was long gone when the incident happened.  As noted in the NTSB report, the track pilot was causing course oscillation, and the Captain and Staff Captain attempted to rectify this by adjusting the settings in the track pilot, and subsequently left the bridge to the Second Officer, the Senior Officer of the Watch.  When the track pilot started oscillating off course again, due to the changed settings the turns were of greater amplitude, and so the Second Officer disconnected the track pilot, and attempted to stop the existing high rate turn by turning the wheel even further the other way, and this rapid rudder movement caused the "turn induced heel".  While the actual large heel was caused by the Second Officer's excessive steering commands, it was found that the root cause was improper settings, from before, to the track pilot which caused the original wavering of the track.

Sorry, mis-spoke. Junior officer. And yes, took it off of autopilot, and overcorrected. (I had thought he turned too far in, I didn't realize that he tried to correct, and turned to far the opposite way.) Maybe the root cause was improper settings, but the actual cause was human error, not autopilot error. (Even you say that he turned the autopilot off.) And we can debate back and forth, but I dont think we'll change each other's minds.

[friend of Eeyore]

42 minutes ago, NormanW said:

For those interested in the Crown Princess Heeling Accident here is the official NTSB report:

 

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MAR0801.pdf

 

 

Thank you. I was on the cruise, and yet I don't know that I've ever read this.

And, from the beginning

"The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the Crown Princess accident was the second officer’s incorrect wheel commands, executed first to counter an unanticipated high rate of turn and then to counter the vessel’s heeling. Contributing to the cause of the accident were the captain’s  and staff captain’s inappropriate inputs to the vessel’s integrated navigation system while the vessel was traveling at high speed in relatively shallow water, their failure to stabilize the vessel’s heading fluctuations before leaving the bridge, and the inadequate training of crewmembers in the use of integrated navigation systems." (Sorry if it didn't paste in correctly. My tablet didn't like copying it.)

 

So yes, primary was a junior officer's actions (I did misstate when I said junior pilot, sorry), and secondary were inappropriate inputs to the autopilot.

 

---------

 

And sorry for the digression. Again, I hope that the injuries are soon healed, both in the body and in the spirit, and that this doesn't turn people away from the nice parts of cruising.

 

[NLH Arizona]

57 minutes ago, MalbecWine said:

Obviously many of you have not traversed the the Drake Paasge or the Tasman Sea where weather changes on a dime and winds can kick up to over 100K MPH.  Been there done that and we had one elderly man fall off the steps and was evacuated to Ushuaia and this was on  Crystal.  Lots of glasses and bottles were broken and a few windows blew out but we were never in jeopardy.

I went through the Drake Passage on a ship that held 98 passengers (239 feet) through the worst storm our Antarctic seasoned Captain had ever seen.  We were confined to our cabins and there were many, many injuries, including an officer who broke his collarbone and a crew member whose hand was crushed by a slaming door.  When we got to the Ushuaia airport, the Captain asked us not to tell the oncoming passengers because we might scare them into cancelling.

[n8botting]

7 hours ago, CruisingSince1982 said:

 

She panicked. It happens. 

My thoughts exactly. We can all be arm chair quarterbacks but until your put in that situation yourself, I don’t think any of us can say with any certainty we wouldn’t have done the same.

[MalbecWine]

Heavy seas and storms can be found on NOAA and radar but that does not guarantee they will remain that way especially doing passeges including Africa the South Cape as well.  Having a six pack license not my body LOL I know the variables that can happen at sea as we have sailed around the world.  You can have the Drake Lake or the Drake Shake no one can predict that or typhoons that may converge in the South Pacific.  The Captains do their best to avoid them as much as possible.

[PTAngel]

It seems there have been a lot of issues lately with cruise ships.  It doesn't keep me from cruising though.  My question is when these injured people have been taken off for treatment, can they return to the ship & continue on their cruise?  I know if they can't they hopefully have insurance.  I was just wondering if they are treated & released can they continue on their cruise  & what happens to their possessions.  If there is a possiblilty they can continue are their things packed up for them & what happens to them.  I can't imagine going to the hospital in an ambulance with all their luggage.  Where is their luggage left & will they be able to bring it back on to the ship when they return?  I know there are a lot of questions but I am just curious.  

[MisterBill99]

Does anyone know what the actual list was in degrees? The TV reports had passengers giving what must be wildly exaggerated numbers. One said it was 30%. Not trying to diminish what happened but I've read in the past that passengers generally overstate the actual number. I haven't heard anything from NCL other than that some people were taken off the ship in PC.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, MisterBill99 said:

Does anyone know what the actual list was in degrees? The TV reports had passengers giving what must be wildly exaggerated numbers. One said it was 30%. Not trying to diminish what happened but I've read in the past that passengers generally overstate the actual number. I haven't heard anything from NCL other than that some people were taken off the ship in PC.

Upthread a poster onboard said the Captain announced 10*.

[thistimeplease]

8 hours ago, PTAngel said:

It seems there have been a lot of issues lately with cruise ships.  It doesn't keep me from cruising though.  My question is when these injured people have been taken off for treatment, can they return to the ship & continue on their cruise?  I know if they can't they hopefully have insurance.  I was just wondering if they are treated & released can they continue on their cruise  & what happens to their possessions.  If there is a possiblilty they can continue are their things packed up for them & what happens to them.  I can't imagine going to the hospital in an ambulance with all their luggage.  Where is their luggage left & will they be able to bring it back on to the ship when they return?  I know there are a lot of questions but I am just curious.  

According to another site all the passengers that were taken to the hospital did return to the ship to continue their cruise.  I can't say for sure this is true but it is what was stated.

[Beer Belly]

Would of ticked me off if I spilled my drink, but what the heck, I got the drink package....pour me another. Not that I would of liked to experience it, but would give ya something to remember. I imagine the upper decks felt it a lot more than the lower.

[DuckTollerFans]

15 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Good question.  Probably a bit scarier than the Escape, which is a really big ship, 20 decks high.  Given the choice, I’d rather be in the Escape than the gem in a 100 knot, 15* heel.

 

That said, I really liked the GEM!  Maybe sail it in warmer months instead of winter months!

I loved the GEM too!  That was our first cruise last April/May that you were also on (and yours my favorite cabin of all on the crawl)

We're sailing on the Escape this June.  I'm sure we'll love it too, but expect it will be a very different experience.  

 

 

[graphicguy]

I’ve heard the list was anywhere from 10* to 18*. Definitely more than 10*.....probably closer to 15*......absolutely no way it was 30*.

 

From an officer in the Cafe this a.m.....all injuries treated and all affected are on board enjoying the cruise..

[graphicguy]

2 minutes ago, DuckTollerFans said:

I loved the GEM too!  That was our first cruise last April/May that you were also on (and yours my favorite cabin of all on the crawl)

We're sailing on the Escape this June.  I'm sure we'll love it too, but expect it will be a very different experience.  

 

 

That was a special cruise.  You guys and all the folks I met at the M&G were among the best cruise friends I’ve ever had on a cruise.

 

Escape is a great ship, too.  I’ve met more wonderful people so far this week.  Love the new drinking/dining establishments. 

 

It it certainly will go down as the most eventful cruises I’ve ever taken.

 

Will give a full pictorial review when I return home.

[Barb Nahoumi]

ABC News and NECN news covered this story last night and this morning.  According to last nights, ABC broadcast, some people were taken to hospitals, when the ship docked.  

 

My prayers for a safe return of the Escape and her passengers.  

[bob brown]

10 hours ago, PTAngel said:

It seems there have been a lot of issues lately with cruise ships.  It doesn't keep me from cruising though.  My question is when these injured people have been taken off for treatment, can they return to the ship & continue on their cruise?  I know if they can't they hopefully have insurance.  I was just wondering if they are treated & released can they continue on their cruise  & what happens to their possessions.  If there is a possiblilty they can continue are their things packed up for them & what happens to them.  I can't imagine going to the hospital in an ambulance with all their luggage.  Where is their luggage left & will they be able to bring it back on to the ship when they return?  I know there are a lot of questions but I am just curious.  

If a passenger leaves a cruise due to some medical reason, and then is fit to return, there is no reason why they cannot, unless somehow the PVSA law comes into play.   I am currently on a full world cruise, and we have already had a few instances of passenger's leaving for medical reasons, and then later rejoining.   Those who were not rejoining either took all their belongings with them, or the cruise line arranged for their being shipped home.   Those that planned to rejoin, simply left their belongings aboard...

Edited March 6, 2019 by bob brown

[NormanW]

6 hours ago, MisterBill99 said:

Does anyone know what the actual list was in degrees? The TV reports had passengers giving what must be wildly exaggerated numbers. One said it was 30%. Not trying to diminish what happened but I've read in the past that passengers generally overstate the actual number. I haven't heard anything from NCL other than that some people were taken off the ship in PC.

 

Those values are always exaggerated greatly.  Possibly on the same scale as "fisherman's inches". 😄

 

Definitely double digit values.  10° seems on the low side considering the amount of furniture that wasn't attached moving around, etc.

 

Another fun thing to try as most of you have a smartphone.  Get an app that shows inclination or level.  Put the phone down on your dining room table.  Make sure it's zero'd out.  For safety, find someone to help you.  This works best with the table set.  If you're married, make sure the table is set with non breakable dinnerware. 😉

 

Have your helper friend lift one edge of the table slowly.  Remember, pax vessels are longer than three football fields so the rate of heel is never going to be that fast.  Lifting too fast creates unrealistic inertia that causes premature upset.  As the "heel" increases, watch the list displayed on the inclinometer (your phone) and notice when things start to slide or topple over.  Tall pepper mills usually founder first with a resounding clatter particularly if their reach includes breakable dinnerware or crystal. 😉

 

You will be surprised how low the number is when their is obvious change in the appearance of the table setting where most of what was sitting on the table has fallen and hit the deck!

 

20-30° of list would be quite catastrophic.  Just the flooding alone from pools and hot tubs emptying out, for example, would be horrific.  Salt water cascading down on energized circuitry at 450V is never fun.

 

Well perhaps at Christmas time.  Hey everyone, let's all hold this nice shiny railing and light up! 😄

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

Edited March 6, 2019 by NormanW

[chengkp75]

While nearly everything you say is correct, the fact that ships are 3 football fields long doesn't matter in the slightest when considering rolling.  What matters is the width of the ship and its weight, but you are correct that you could lift a table faster than a ship would roll, though that depends on the weather the ship is experiencing.

 

And yes, a 10-15* roll starts to move things around, which is why we use non-skid mats (like you use under throw rugs on hardwood floors) or wet tablecloths on desks and tables on ships.

[graphicguy]

So, going to call this my weather cruise.  Captain just cancelled Great Stirrup Cay because of winds that affect tendering.  We’re going straight to Nassau, docking this afternoon and spending the night.

 

Let’s see what Nassau night life is like!

 

And yes, the 8 who were injured, treated and cleared to travel are back on board.

[NormanW]

Yes, technically you are correct.  I should have mentioned beam which is nearly half a football field. 😉

Length would affect period of pitch.

 

Most people that try this would definitely lift too fast.  Especially if the table is very heavy. 😄

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[EngIceDave]

4 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Let’s see what Nassau night life is like!

 

Be careful in Nassau, especially at night. In the last week, the US Dept of State actually put out a travel warning for the Bahamas and Nassau. Don't venture too far off the beaten path at night, stay in well lit areas and keep moving. 

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/the-bahamas-travel-advisory.html

 

Feb 25, 2019

 

Exercise increased caution in The Bahamas due to crime.

Violent crime, such as burglaries, armed robberies, and sexual assault, is common, even during the day and in tourist areas. Although the family islands are not crime-free, the vast majority of crime occurs on New Providence and Grand Bahama islands. U.S. government personnel are not permitted to visit the Sand Trap area in Nassau due to crime. Activities involving commercial recreational watercraft, including water tours, are not consistently regulated. Watercraft are often not maintained, and many companies do not have safety certifications to operate in The Bahamas. Jet-ski operators have been known to commit sexual assaults against tourists.  As a result, U.S. government personnel are not permitted to use jet-ski rentals on New Providence and Paradise Islands.

Read the Safety and Security section on the country information page.

If you decide to travel to The Bahamas:

• Exercise caution in the area known as "Over the Hill" (south of Shirley Street) and the Fish Fry at Arawak Cay in Nassau, especially at night.
• Do not answer your door at your hotel/residence unless you know who it is.
• Do not physically resist any robbery attempt.
• Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.
• Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter.
• Review the Crime and Safety Report for The Bahamas.
• U.S. citizens who travel abroad should always have a contingency plan for emergency and medical situations. Review the Traveler’s Checklist.

[graphicguy]

Thanks....maybe skip the “off the beaten path” parts of Nassau!

 

Been to Nassau many times before, just never docked over night!

[MrMike45]

Is there any confirmation anywhere about a 200-250 pound slot machine flipping over and landing on a woman?  That sounds rather extreme even given what happened 

[MisterBill99]

1 hour ago, NormanW said:

 

Those values are always exaggerated greatly.  Possibly on the same scale as "fisherman's inches". 😄

 

 

Agreed. The problem is that the TV reporter interviews someone on board and does not challenge the number with facts or ask for the actual number from the cruise line so that's what people remember. I guess for NCL its a no-win situation since if they say it was lower, they get accused of trying to minimize the extent of the situation.