Just off Symphony..Health Violations in Chops followed by Norovirus

[HBE4]

53 minutes ago, azkcruizers said:

Thank you....someone is actually human here lol.  

 

It looks like you've been around CC long enough to know that Monday Morning Quarterback is a favorite pastime.  You'll still get a dozen or more posts like "Well, you did A and B while you should have done C and D" or "Being sick on a cruise ship is still better then being well at work". lol

[HBE4]

54 minutes ago, tennislvr8 said:

She wasn't flamed. No one was rude to her. Since when did we become a society that can't have a conversation or disagreement or question respectfully? That's what was done here, no one has been mean or rude to the OP, some have respectfully questioned her story. If anyone feels that's flaming, then perhaps posting on social media isn't for you. 

 

True. If someone is going to post a very detailed complaint, they can/should expect aspects of that complaint to be questioned or asked for follow-up information.

 

Honestly, this seems like an isolated case. Not the only case as there were other, similarly isolated cases on board. Whether it's due to Chops or something else will never been determined. I'm sure most cruises have a few cases of Noro.

 

BUT, this thread is still young. Soon the would-be investigative reporters will be out, analyzing every word in every post by the OP looking for inconsistencies or omitted facts (easy to do in such detailed posts) and when finding such perceived discrepancies, declaring the whole story a fabrication and declaring the OP a liar.

 

Lastly, Royal should be commended for taking action tor possibly nipping a widespread NORO outbreak in the bud. 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by HBE4

[misty57]

We came off Symphony over a week ago. While we did not become ill on the ship we did see some poor food handling practices. DH noted someone ( I think itwas in Jamie's Italian but it could have been Chops) using their cell phone and then proceeding to prepare food without hand washing and no gloves. I know it happens all the time, but it's hard to see. If OP hadn't seen the food handling that way she may not have made the connection. Hopefully Royal will step up and increase their training and compliance.

[azkcruizers]

I came to share the experience that I had on the Symphony hoping that Royal Caribbean did take care of the obvious problems that happened and so that anyone else that may want to keep an eye open could.  I had no idea that people would think that I actually made up the story.  Thank you to those of you that provided kind words or thoughts about my Mom or those of you that questioned without being rude.  I love cruising and am diamond on Royal but cruise other lines as well.  I was on the Mariner a month ago and my Mom and I have been booked on the Ovation's 11 night Alaska cruise in May.  I will continue to cruise Royal and I don't believe that the actions of a few represent the whole staff.  I just came here to share my story and didn't expect people to post memes of my name, call me a debbie downer, that 83 year olds shouldn't be cruising, give wrong information on how long after you are exposed you come down with norovirus, post pictures of salads that we didn't order, know how my mom holds hand rails, turns door knobs, takes stairs and pushes buttons from a wheelchair...when I only meant she touches a lot less than an ambulatory person.  For those of you that have provided great information to me over the years thank you.  For the rest that have had such a swell time criticizing and ridiculing me please continue and enjoy yourself.. I won't bother defending myself anymore.

 

 

[queenfrostine22]

I would have gotten my phone out and taken pictures of it all!

No one can dispute photo after photo.

 

[sixesandeights]

16 hours ago, SakeDad said:

 

For the record, food poisoning or Noro hits you MUCH QUICKER than 33 hours (or 2 days as you said) so I am even more in doubt the dinner was the cause of her distress. You can get Noro from touching elevator buttons, stair rails, bathroom doors and more....but it hits in 12 hours, not 33.

 

You actually couldn't be more wrong my friend.  33 hours is the exact median time for onset of Noro.

 

The average incubation period for norovirus-associated gastroenteritis is 12 to 48 hours, with a median period of approximately 33 hours. Illness is characterized by nausea, acute-onset vomiting, and watery, non-bloody diarrhea with abdominal cramps.Sep 6, 2011

Norovirus in Healthcare Facilities Fact Sheet - CDC

 

https://www.cdc.gov/hai/pdfs/norovirus/229110-ANoroCaseFactSheet508.pdf

[Cruiser_1977]

22 minutes ago, azkcruizers said:

... post pictures of salads that we didn't order, ....

 

 

I asked a question because I am truly curious as to what you saw. I am an analytical person by nature and just can't imagine salad plates being stacked like dirty dishes and then served to guests....I also prefer pictures, as "they are worth 1,000 words".

[LXA350]

It is always funny how things come in waves at RCCL, if there is no outbreak in Noro Virus they are over relaxed, not taking it too serious with certain procedures but when there is a outbreak they go into complete panic. How about to make sure that certain procedures are implemented always, such as making sure that no individual will be allowed to enter Windjammer or any other food venue before hands were disinfected with Purel. Ok, as we discussed before it doesn't kill every germ, but at least it helps when you imagine bow many people do not wash their hands before going to eat, after they were at the bathroom etc.

 

As a general personal recomendation, do not eat anything at Windjammer where you need your hands, as I am quite sure that most Noro outbreaks happen there.

 

Concerning this experience at Chops, this is a absolute a no go with a 0 tolerance rate. This is not a land side environment, you have many people on a closed off environment, where one mistake can lead to a outbreak, hence whoever was resonsible for this basic error to happen must get fired without notice by the company.

[klfhngr]

2 hours ago, tennislvr8 said:

She wasn't flamed. No one was rude to her. Since when did we become a society that can't have a conversation or disagreement or question respectfully? That's what was done here, no one has been mean or rude to the OP, some have respectfully questioned her story. If anyone feels that's flaming, then perhaps posting on social media isn't for you. 

I'm not going to go thru each posting, but if you feel that 32, 34 and 37 are not 'flaming', then IDK what to say... I guess rude/mean has a different meaning to you... I agree with you 100% on having a RESPECTABLE convo/disagreement. But that's not always the case here on CC.   

[leisuretraveler223]

1 hour ago, azkcruizers said:

 For those of you that have provided great information to me over the years thank you.  For the rest that have had such a swell time criticizing and ridiculing me please continue and enjoy yourself.

 

 

Okay, so basically when someone comes on here with a long diatribe of criticism that might not be clear or entirely sensical, the only option is to agree, offer support or sympathy. Otherwise, we're just in the wrong.

 

That's the most "Karen" thing I've heard all day.

[HBE4]

3 minutes ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

Okay, so basically when someone comes on here with a long diatribe of criticism that might not be clear or entirely sensical, the only option is to agree, offer support or sympathy. Otherwise, we're just in the wrong.

 

 

Or say nothing.

 

She told a story. There was nothing in the story to refute or disprove.   It's not as if she was seeking a full refund or looking to sue the cruise line or tell people to never-ever cruise Royal again.

 

Sure, it's okay to ask follow-up questions or offer alternatives explanations. And most people did do that. But there were a few that insinuated she lied or did not properly care for her mother.   Granted, it's not as if it was an all out war in Pinnacles and as "flaming" goes, pretty low level stuff. But entirely unnecessary.

 

BTW, the story was clear to me. And I didn't need to see pictures, I knew entirely what she meant when the plates of food were stacked.

 

[gadaboutgal]

A little puzzled by your description of the dinner plates being stacked upon each other:  my experience has been that the plates being served are brought to the dining room with the plastic dome covers.  Wasn't this done?

[vacationlover_mn]

Sorry about your bad experience 😞

[Homosassa]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Sorry, this is what I find to be unbelievable in the OP's story.  So, no one noticed that their food was all flattened from having another plate stacked on top?  No one noticed that when the courses were removed that the tablecloth was stained by the food on the bottom of the plate from being stacked on food?

 

This. Chengkp75 is absolutely right.

 

Also, given the training and certification that is mandatory for the food supervisors on board ship, I highly doubt that such food handling practices were ongoing. 

 

Also, as a CDC trained epidemiological investigator in foodborne disease outbreaks,  I would need a lot more information before jumping to the conclusion that the meal at Chops was the culprit.

[Biker19]

8 minutes ago, gadaboutgal said:

  my experience has been that the plates being served are brought to the dining room with the plastic dome covers.  Wasn't this done?

That might be true in the MDR, but not in the specialty venues.

[HBE4]

16 minutes ago, gadaboutgal said:

A little puzzled by your description of the dinner plates being stacked upon each other:  my experience has been that the plates being served are brought to the dining room with the plastic dome covers.  Wasn't this done?

 

See pictures in post #46.  The plates are not directly stacked on top of each other, but rather, the edges of the plates overlap.   Personally, in my book, not a big deal.

 

Stacks of dirty dishes going back into the kitchen next to plates of fresh food ready to be served.  Probably wouldn't stop me from eating but would give plenty of others reason to pause for sure.

 

For that reason, I try to not look in food prep area.  Or watch YouTube as to how hot dogs are made.

Edited March 11, 2019 by HBE4

[time4u2go]

18 hours ago, SakeDad said:

Clearly you have never been a food server in a land-based or ship restaurant. Nothing you described is beyond the normal "back of house" operations.

I agree with this.  I think most people would be surprised to see what goes on in the kitchen of many restaurants.

Edited March 11, 2019 by time4u2go

[rt1092]

Number 1. If there are less than 20 GI attacks that is normal Remember 9000 people on board.

All Gi attacks are treated as Noro. And unless the number climbs to 100 or more. There aren't going to announce it. You will advanced cleaning of the tables. Spraying with a soap solution, instead of just wiping. 

What we do when eating in the buffets is take a extra napkin and use it as a tablecloth, then put our silverware and plate on top of the napkin. Nothing touches the table so nothing can be transferred.

Also the Purel does nothing to stop the norovirus. Simple washing of the hands and not touching your mouth and eyes. Is extremely effective. 

I doubt that the way they handled the food had anything to do with the disease. You say your Mom never touches anything But does she go to the bathroom? Bathrooms are the leading place for the norovirus contact. Even on the 01/06/19 cruise I saw numerous men going from a stall to the door directly, without stopping to wash their hands. Oblivious to what was going on at the time.

[tennislvr8]

1 hour ago, klfhngr said:

I'm not going to go thru each posting, but if you feel that 32, 34 and 37 are not 'flaming', then IDK what to say... I guess rude/mean has a different meaning to you... I agree with you 100% on having a RESPECTABLE convo/disagreement. But that's not always the case here on CC.   

I went back and re-read those. Again I don't see flaming, I also don't have thin skin. The comment about the age, that was plain idiotic. The others weren't the nicest. 

Edited March 11, 2019 by tennislvr8

[voyager70]

41 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

 

This. Chengkp75 is absolutely right.

 

Also, given the training and certification that is mandatory for the food supervisors on board ship, I highly doubt that such food handling practices were ongoing. 

 

Also, as a CDC trained epidemiological investigator in foodborne disease outbreaks,  I would need a lot more information before jumping to the conclusion that the meal at Chops was the culprit.

 

+1.

 

[Milwaukee Eight]

7 hours ago, leisuretraveler223 said:

 

Okay, I'll bite.  I've been a board certified pediatrician for fifteen years.  Either there is more going in than norovirus, or she received inappropriate care.

Are you living in Texas?

[Milwaukee Eight]

9 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Might make Andy happy

NSPP doesn’t desriminate based on age. 

[gadaboutgal]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

That might be true in the MDR, but not in the specialty venues.

Correct.  I was "mis-thinking" the main dining rooms.  Forgot discussion was about Chops.😏

[nelblu]

3 hours ago, LXA350 said:

It is always funny how things come in waves at RCCL, if there is no outbreak in Noro Virus they are over relaxed, not taking it too serious with certain procedures but when there is a outbreak they go into complete panic. How about to make sure that certain procedures are implemented always, such as making sure that no individual will be allowed to enter Windjammer or any other food venue before hands were disinfected with Purel. Ok, as we discussed before it doesn't kill every germ, but at least it helps when you imagine bow many people do not wash their hands before going to eat, after they were at the bathroom etc.

 

As a general personal recomendation, do not eat anything at Windjammer where you need your hands, as I am quite sure that most Noro outbreaks happen there.

 

Concerning this experience at Chops, this is a absolute a no go with a 0 tolerance rate. This is not a land side environment, you have many people on a closed off environment, where one mistake can lead to a outbreak, hence whoever was resonsible for this basic error to happen must get fired without notice by the company.

 

 

On Symphony before entering the WJ, you must wash your hands with soap & water.  The Purel is a  waste of time.

 

With regards to firing people without notice, don't jump to unverified conclusions. 

[NewSalt]

6 minutes ago, nelblu said:

 

 

On Symphony before entering the WJ, you must wash your hands with soap & water.  The Purel is a  waste of time.

 

With regards to firing people without notice, don't jump to unverified conclusions. 

There’s a washing station with multiple sinks on Anthem just inside the entrance to the WJ.  A crew member directs everyone to the sinks. Almost every time we’ve been in there I’ve seen people walk through without washing their hands. It takes a great deal of self-control to prevent the mommy in me from scolding them.